Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 02:41 PM

It's just that Hitler did so many awful things that it's easy to assume that golf was one of them.

Didn't he have a weiner dog too?

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: gnu
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 02:45 PM

Yes he did but he made wiener schnitzel with them. As is rumoured, he wasn't a very nice man.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 02:52 PM

Not fair! Almost all Germans have wiener dogs. It's the most popular breed in Germany...beloved by all.

Actually, Hitler had an Alsatian (a German Shepherd dog) named Blondie. He was reportedly very fond of the dog and treated it kindly and praised it a great deal...so much so that Eva Braun grew rather jealous of Blondie. This often happens. I've seen family members really bothered by the fact that "Mom (or Dad) (or my husband) loves the dog more than they love me".

It is, however, much easier to love a dog...because the dog's love is so unconditional. It still loves you even if you're having a bad hair day, you don't wash, and you didn't remember to pay the phone bill. It's not that easy with people. They're a lot more critical than dogs are.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 04:06 PM

A good question is was Hitler a closet vegetarian?

""If Hitler was really a vegetarian, he was a sausage-eating one.""

""And of course, even if Hitler had been vegetarian, likely every single other mass-murderer in history was not. If you were keeping score, that would be, Vegetarian Mass Murderers: 1, and then Non-Vegetarian Mass Murderers: 100's.""

Hitler was not a vegetarian

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: BTNG
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 04:18 PM

Ron's not very good when it comes to producing facts and figures to back up his bombasts....what part of that don't you understand Ronnie boy?

Oh and Christianity has produced more self-righteous, sanctimonious hypocrites than any other organisation.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 06:26 PM

It has???? LOL!!! Talk about your unsubstantiated bombast!

How on Earth would you have any way of knowing or calculating that, BTNG? You're just expressing a virulent and negative prejudice of yours about a whole large section of humanity, a hostile opinion that happens to suit YOU, and that's all. It gives you someone to feel "better than". All those Christians out there have been somehow shoehorned into your personal anxiety closet...one that is probably stuffed so full of similar negative crap at this point that it's about ready to burst.

If you were a Christian yourself, you'd be one of the very ones you're complaining about, in all probability, because their error is that they do to others what you are doing to them.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: gnu
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 06:40 PM

So... who will replace Hank? I am thinkin a twist on this tune.

It's certainly redneck country rock to qualify.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: gnu
Date: 22 Oct 11 - 08:33 PM

Gee... I haven't seen MNF since the flap... who are they going with?

Green Day had a tune that would be great but I can't find it on YT.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: BTNG
Date: 22 Oct 11 - 09:04 PM

It has???? LOL!!! Talk about your unsubstantiated bombast!

and the man whose alter ego is a chimp...answers in kind...LOL

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: gnu
Date: 22 Oct 11 - 10:18 PM

You just keep diggin there bud... you'll get to the bottom on EVERYones's list if you haven't already. Idiot. Seriously, why do you have to be such an asshole? Yer mama drop you on yer head?

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler
Date: 23 Oct 11 - 05:54 PM

Children! Children!

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: BTNG
Date: 23 Oct 11 - 06:04 PM

Oh I have already, not that it matters

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 11:39 AM

Hank Williams Jr. is an alcoholic with little sense. You can't expect anything of value from what he has to say. Don't censor him but let him show the public who he really is.
He is unfortunate because his father's talent was not extended to him.

Interesting discussion, talent is usually inherited from the mother rather than the father.

A Mendelian view of genetics could be taken from this.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 11:56 AM

""Yet for some reason they object to being called on to defend the conduct of some prominent atheists:   Hitler, Stalin, and Mao.""

It can't be defended Ron, but that's not the argument you little old non sequitur you.

They would have done the things they did, whether they were atheists, religious nuts, or believers in the cosmic pixie.

They did what they did because they were power hungry maniacs, and those tend to come in all shapes, sizes and beliefs.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: BTNG
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 12:07 PM

"He is unfortunate because his father's talent was not extended to him."

it jumped a generation and went to the grandson

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 12:15 PM

Look at it this way Ron.

You have an obvious dislike and distrust of atheists.

If you suddenly found yourself in absolute control of Europe and most of Russia, what kind of treatment would atheists get?

You probably wouldn't want to employ them, you might make them second class citizens, but slaughter them?..........NO!

You don't possess that peculiar deviation which would permit that.

Hitler, Mao, and Pol Pot did, but it had nothing to do with not being religious. It was inside them, as it was with Torquemada, Pope Alexander VI, aka Rodrigo Borgia, and

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 12:25 PM

Damn! It should finish.......

and Hernando Cortez, who were religious.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 10:16 PM

So somebody brought this thread up again.    Fine.   None dare call it treason or thread creep (gallop) or something similar.

OK, Greg F or anybody else:   

We'll take this step by step, since some atheists seem to be rather slow.

Does anybody deny that Hitler, Stalin and Mao were together responsible for more deaths than anybody else in the history of the world? The truth of this is obvious to anybody who lifts a finger to do any research whatsoever.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: BTNG
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 11:46 PM

Just How Many People Has Religion Killed?
Kirk Durston, National Director, New Scholars Society

A popular urban legend that I've often heard is that religion has killed more people than anything else, so the world would be a lot more peaceful place were it not for religion.
The top three largest examples are thought to be the Crusades of the Middle Ages, the Spanish Inquisition, and the burning of witches. Scholars estimate that the Crusades of
the middle ages cost from 58,000 to 133,000 lives. The most realistic figure for the Spanish Inquisition puts the total killed from AD1480 to AD1808 at up to 31,912.
Finally, records indicate that the number of witches killed may be over 30,000. Some argue that records don't tell everything and suggest that maybe even 100,000 were killed.
These three events, totaling over 264,000 killed, are thought to be the largest atrocities perpetrated by one or another form of Christendom.

According to University of Hawaii political scientist Rudolph J. Rummel, the total number killed in all of human history is estimated to be about 284,638,000. Of that number, 151,491,000 were killed during the past 100 years. The single largest killer in all of human history is, by far, atheistic
Communism with a total of 110,000,000 … over 1/3 of all people ever killed! If we add to that number just two other regimes where religion of any sort was strongly discouraged, Nazi Germany and Nationalist China, the number rises to 141,160,000.
Almost 50% of all the killings in human history were committed in the past 100 years by regimes that either actively promoted atheism or strongly discouraged religion.

source: (blue clicky not working at this end)

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 08:20 AM

"back up his bombast" .   You were saying?   

Thanks for clinching my case.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 08:25 AM

As I've said more than once, atheism is by far the worst thing to ever happen to humanity.

QED

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 08:38 AM

"inside them'.   Sorry, that's drivel.    If you don'r realize for instance that stamping out religion is an integral part of Communism, you are in deeper denial than I thought.

Try "opium of the masses" for starters.   Now, the first question on your pop quiz is:   was Marx in favor of religion or against it?

Duh.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 08:39 AM

"don't realize"

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 08:54 AM

I've also told you why atheism has been by far the worst thing ever for humanity:   it makes it easy for the leader to put himself forward as a God-substiute.   Which all 3 of the above tyrants did.

Yes, I know Hitler was not Communist.   Duh.

But it is of more than passing interest, for instance, to note that some of the propaganda techniques used in the 3rd Reich to discredit religion are exactly those used by Mudcat atheists.

No more time now. More evidence later if you'd like.

Have fun, everybody.   I know you will.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 08:56 AM

"God-substitute"

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 09:10 AM

How 'bout them Yankees?

PS to Simple: You still haven't addressed your statement that:

atheists have been responsible for more deaths than anything else in human history.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: BTNG
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 12:38 PM

I used that as an illustration, Ron, not to either confir or deny...I actually thought about putting up the other side of the arguement, I still may...oh and Marx...in my reading he was more ambivelant about religion than anything Vladimir Lenin was, however, highly critical of religion, saying in his book Religion

" Atheism is a natural and inseparable part of Marxism, of the theory and practice of scientific socialism"

The famous so-called Marx quote about religion being the opium of the people actually originated with the Marquis da Sade

and here's the quote in context, what Marx actually said

"Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man—state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion. Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo."

read into that whatever you want.....because I know you will!

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: John P
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 02:17 PM

Hey folks, on this subject Ron Davies is a stupid troll. Please stop feeding it.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 02:30 PM

There are worse things than being dead,like being confined in small space with an evangelical christian.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: BTNG
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 04:33 PM

you don't agree with his view point, John P, is that why he's a troll?

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: gnu
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 04:38 PM

Here's what I agree with.... start a new thread if you cannot stay on topic. A bit of thread drift is fine... adds to the thread sometimes... but this is ridiculous. Ya wanna talk off topic sd infinitum... start another thread. This is becoming rude as a waste of readers' time.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 05:28 PM

Just a theory:

Most long Mudcat threads degrade into monologues on god and religion, on hitler related topics,on USA politics, on a conspiracy of some type, or on monkeys and weiner dogs.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Wesley S
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 05:41 PM

Don't leave out the One True Definition of TRADITIONAL English Folk Music. That one's always good for about 500 posts.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: BTNG
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 07:10 PM

Hey...if I have to justify myself...and that is a VERY BIG IF you don't like it gnu, you can do one of two things...don't read OR do something about it..Your choice. That's democracy for you...choice...Oh and in the end who REALLY cares what Hank Williams Jr thinks? He is a redneck, BUT he is entitled to his opinion, democracy at work, again.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: gnu
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 09:19 PM

Like I said before... you are a very poor troll.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: BTNG
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 09:22 PM

you're predictable, gnu, both in your reponses and your political views (which, on top of everything else, are dubious at best)

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: BTNG
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 09:31 PM

Oh and my views, I stick to the middle of the road, it annoys both the right and, particularly, the left...

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: gnu
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 09:40 PM

Thanks for proving my point... in your own words.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: BTNG
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 10:09 PM

I speak for what's right or wrong, not because some damned political machine or political idiot tells me to. If you can't deal with that then it's you who has the problem, not me

Now there's the question. Are part of the problem or part of the answer...? hmmmmm?

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: John P
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 10:54 PM

BTNG: you don't agree with his view point, John P, is that why he's a troll?

No, he's a troll because he makes the same "atheists are bad" statement in every thread that he can possibly shoehorn it in to. Because he's been proved wrong dozens of times and still keeps saying the same dumb thing over and over and over and over in an attempt to start an argument on the subject. He denigrates people who disagree with him. That's being a troll.

Just in case you don't get the other side of that, there are lots of viewpoints that I disagree with. I don't call the writers trolls because of that.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: BTNG
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 11:25 PM

More evidence, Davies? How can you have more when you haven't given any yet?

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 03:31 AM

No one asked me, but that's never stopped me before.

God isn't interested. So leave him/her/it out of the discussion. I could care less--although it confounds me how--what anyone's thoughts are about G/g/o/-d's real intentions were/are/will be to do with the conversations the deity gets dragged into.

I seldom get pissed off, but I allow myself to once in a blue moon. This is the day.

When Thurber wrote about the rabbits, when Mowat wrote about the wolves, when White wrote about the spiders, do any of you really think they wrote about the creatures for the sake of those creatures?

The stories were examinations of the human conscience, not examinations of the gods or the things the gods say. Take issue with ideas, not people. As animals living on this planet--one of the higher intelligenced animals that discovered technologies before our fellow denizens--we have demonstrated the ability to be brilliant, heartless and utterly stupid.

If the Mudcat should someday be the only remnant of our existence as a 'race', maybe we all oughta think about what we'll be leaving behind.

Thank you for allowing me to get that off my chest.

PS This is not addressed to John or anyone else. Quite the opposite. I have room in my life for people with different ideas. But fights ain't ideas, they're fights.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: GUEST,Bill
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 07:58 AM

Hank Jr does have the right to his opinion and the network had the right to drop his song as the opening to "Monday Night Football". The problem I have is just today I heard a promotion for "Monday Night Football" and they were still using his song, just without the lyrics. I hope they are paying him for his music... (or that he sues them and wins).

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: BTNG
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 10:14 AM

The favourite American pastime, suing the ass off your neighbour because don't like what he/she says, the way he/she looks, what sort of car he/she drives

Hank's entitled to his opinion, Monday Night Football's entitled to use any part and/or all of Hank's song, as long as royalties due are paid...that's what democracy is all about, the right to choose what we say or do, but to take on the responsibilities and results that come with the choices.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mudcat isn't that important that humankind will use it as a barometer in the future to view past society/societies.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 08:47 PM

Stalin and Mao were both atheists.   I note nobody has come up with any evidence that they were not.   And of course we can throw Lenin in also,    Why not? Join the fun.

The BTNG post of 11:46 PM 24 Oct has been contradicted by nobody--including him. The post should have said that Communist China, not Nationalist China, was responsible for most of the deaths (e.g. the Great Leap Forward and other various campaigns led by Mao).   But by and large the general tenor is accurate.    And of course it is well known that Stalin was indeed responsible for millions of deaths before World War II.

I think 100 million is definitely on the high side of deaths caused by Communism (called Marxism by its leaders) but the actual figure absolutely makes clear that any figure of deaths caused by religion is tiny by comparison.

As for Hitler, he only allowed a "German church" which in practice meant whatever the state said. He was the head of the state.    The 3rd Reich even tried to substiute Hitler for God in the minds of the youth.

Remember membership in the Hitlerjugend was made compulsory in 1936 for all boys and girls 10 to 18.

One of the songs they sang at Nuremberg rallies:

No evil priest can prevent us from feeling that we are the children of Hitler.
We follow not Christ but Horst Wessel
Away with incense and holy water
The Church can hand for all we care.
The swastika brings salvation on earth.

A "prayer" at Nuremberg went:

Fuehrer, my Fuehrer
Thou hast rescued Germany from deepest distress
I thank thee for my daily bread
Abide thou long with me, forsake me not
Fuehrer, my Fuehrer, my faith and light.

Source: Richard Gruenberger, A Social History of the Third Reich (1991)


I'm sorry I don't have the original German so I could check the translation, but I suspect it is accurate.

In 1936, a sustained campaign against Catholic monasteries and convents began. One of the choice methods to discredit Catholics was to bring charges of sexual offenses.    They then implied strongly that this was extremely widespread and perhaps unavoidable in Cathoiicism---exactly the tactic used by atheist Mudcatters. As I said earlier.

Sorry, calling someone a "troll" is not usually seen as a logical counterargument by people who can think--perhaps this excludes some atheist Mudcatters.

You will actually have to do some research. Good luck.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: BTNG
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 09:06 PM

editing to suit your own rather dubious position are you, Davies...try re-reading what I actually posted.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The single largest killer in all of human history is, by far, atheistic Communism with a total of 110,000,000 …

over 1/3 of all people ever killed!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we add to that number just two other regimes where religion of any sort was strongly discouraged, Nazi Germany and Nationalist China, the number rises to 141,160,000.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

learn to read, Davies, instead of editing, then read my source material, if you can.....

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 09:29 PM

What are you talking about?

That atheism--especially atheistic Communism--is the single largest killer in all of human history--is exactly my position.

You evidently agree with me--and don't even know it.

Physician, heal thyself.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: BTNG
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 09:56 PM

The opinion you read is the opinion of the author of the piece....I am NOT that author, I merely quoted from the source, so you see I know exactly what I'm talking about....

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 10:02 PM

You quoted from your source, and as I said, the source is correct in the main point--that atheism, and particularly 3 specific atheists, have indeed been the worst thing in human history, causing more deaths than anyone else. I still await any contradiction--with exact source and quotes.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 10:04 PM

"The Church can hang..."