Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 08:03 PM

"I think refusing to play for smokers is a great idea."

I feel that way about some types of soap and perfumes that people use or wear. I do NOT think they are 'scum' because of that.

As a btw, Carol, I have seen that you are a supporter of social justice issues. I would like you to know I was part of the People's Park demonstration. I smoked then, too. Have a nice day regardless of what you think of me.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,Carol Denney, the author
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 08:42 PM

Soaps and perfumes are annoying, I agree. But they don't kill you and the people around you. "The" People's Park demonstration is not over.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 08:48 PM

"Soaps and perfumes are annoying, I agree. But they don't kill you and the people around you"

Actually they do!
I suffer from severe asthma brought on by exposure to these noxious fumes - but I would never call these thoughtless people who care nothing for other's comfort 'scum'

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,Carol
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 09:02 PM

Again, annoying, to be sure, and containing the potential for severe reactions for those with significant allergies and chemical sensitivities, absolutely. But not inherently lethal for both users and bystanders, as are cigarettes if used as directed. No warning is legally required on a soap package for exactly that reason. It's amazing how often this group tries to personalize issues and change the subject.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 09:08 PM

Carol, you have a right to your opinion as do the people who post here. Some agree with you, many don't. That's the way it is when you say what ya gotta say. Stop being so nasty to people. Many of us have been in and are still in the trenches. Maybe not your trench, but y'ain't my ma. The fact that not everyone agrees with you does not make them revanchists, bad people or scum. You have step-ed on your crank. Read 'effed up'. Let it go.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,999--ding!
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 09:09 PM

Carol, you have a right to your opinion as do the people who post here. Some agree with you, many don't. That's the way it is when you say what ya gotta say. Stop being so nasty to people. Many of us have been in and are still in the trenches. Maybe not your trench, but y'ain't my ma. The fact that not everyone agrees with you does not make them revanchists, bad people or scum. You have step-ed on your crank. Read 'effed up'. Let it go.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 09:10 PM

"It's amazing how often this group tries to personalize issues"

Sorry, calling smokers scum isn't somehow 'personal'?

'This group' has the right to be respected too surely rather than your curt dismissal?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,Mugg Muggles
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 09:15 PM

I'd like to make it perfectly clear that I am NOT Carol's "alter".
If you doubt that I am real just Google me, or visit My Space.
I would also like to thank her for her kind appraisal of my musical abilities.
Happy Gnu Year my humour impaired friends.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,Carol Denney, the author
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 09:19 PM

Most people do agree that deliberately exposing children to lethal secondhand smoke is wrong. The subject of the song is clear -- it's not about perfume. As a matter of fact, most smokers, not just nonsmokers but smokers, agree that exposing other people to secondhand smoke is wrong, and you can check the studies yourself if you like. I can't believe this is considered controversial, and people who deliberately expose children, pregnant women, people with pulmonary conditions and cancer survivors like me sure fit my definition of scum. If you don't agree that's just fine. I'm not angry with people who disagree. I think it's funny that people here thought the song was serious. It's ridiculous to attack someone for writing what's obviously comedy about something so universally acknowledged.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: Paul Burke
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 09:23 PM

I thought that it was clear that I'm describing smokers who won't walk away from a crowded street fair

No. It wasn't, and isn't. You seem to support many of the isues I do. No bloody wonder we're losing.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 09:27 PM

"I wish their smoking
would kill them today"

Sorry but not my idea of 'what's obviously comedy'

But I accept it's obviously yours - you are welcome!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,Carol Denney, the author
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 09:31 PM

Well, Paul, I'm not sure what you're working on, but I'm certainly winning the right to smokefree air locally, nationally, and internationally. In a complicated world, it is one thing changing extremely rapidly for the better. And the song seems clear to all the people I've played it for. I've added notes for the ironically impaired to its page on my website along with some lovely photographs of suggested squirtguns with a spectrum of representative firepower. If you have any more specific questions, I'm happy to assist.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 09:37 PM

Mugg, I'll write to you on Myspace. As for being humour impaired, ya missed the boat, buddy.

Carol, that's always the problem when a writer writes satire. Sometimes it misses.

Back in the day, I wrote a song that had the words,

"Fuck the cops, to hell with them all". It had to do with the Democratic Convention in Chicago, '68.

I have regretted that since, and could I take back those words I would. I do not wish to be your enemy, but friendships are built on give and take, understandings between people and the occasional "sorry 'bout that." I ain't seeing too much of that 'round here. Neither from you ro Mugg. I wish you well, and as a smoker who does NOT smoke near non-smokers, has NEVER smoked near kids--neither his own nor those of other people--I agree with your intent in the song. I mentioned once before on this forum that if I light up and someone comes to sit near me and then bitches about the smoke, I have, do and would tell that individual to go sit somewhere else, perhaps not as politely as that. You have generalized, and in doing so insulted many folks. I am a sonuvabitch, a rotten bastard and occasionally a ne'er-do-well. That said, I am NOT scum, and that's that.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 09:38 PM

Well I have quite a strong sense of irony thank you, but maybe you could come down from your moral high ground for long enough to explain to 'ugly and dumb' folks the irony in

'smoking will kill them
but not fast enough'

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,Carol Denney, the author
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 09:45 PM

Glad to! It's the overkill that's funny. It starts off intemperate, and just gets worse. "Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song" is just plain funny to people with a sense of humor. It's everything an overboard, hysterical, out-of-control overreacting person would say all at once at a rapid clip with a jaunty tune and a ridiculous, smiling delivery. "I have a squirtgun and my aim is true..." I still can't believe anyone is offended. But I do stand by it. People were laughing so hard at Chester's that some glasses hit the floor.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 09:56 PM

Pass!

We obviously don't have any mutual definition of humour.

On the whole I'm rather happy with that - enjoy whatever your next 'comic' contribution is I'll try to avoid it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,Carol Denney, the author
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 10:05 PM

How devastating it is to offend the gentle sensibilities of such compassionate, delicate people. I'm, I'm crushed.

Please, for your own safety, avoid my "Ode to Bill Gates."

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 10:14 PM

You know sarcasm isn't really very funny either.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 10:17 PM

Carol: I honour your coming out and joining in the discussion on this thread which you have provoked. But, as I have said before on another thread, few things are as irritating as being insulted, and then being asked in angry tones by the insulter: "Oh, can't you take a joke. Where's your sense of humour?" Few things, as you are discovering, are more destructive of any SOH than that. I am sure that we all appreciate that you probably meant to be humorous and satirical, and to be restricted in your use of terms like 'scum'; but do not the reactions on this thread demonstrate that you did not succeed in these purposes with enough effectiveness, or with enough people, to make the attempt viable? And would it not now be seemly on your part to admit as much?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: NightWing
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 10:25 PM

I smoke. Similar to Guest,999, I do my best to do so away from other people (even to move downwind) and to NOT smoke when I can't get away from other people.

Nonetheless, I agree with Carol. I found the song very funny and the tune *I* imagined for it (a la Spike Jones) made it even more so. I suspect some of you who don't find it funny may be taking it a bit personally. But I could be wrong; there are other interpretations.

If you don't like the song, stop subjecting yourself to it: GO AWAY.

Carol, I'd love to learn the tune. If you can post ABC or the dots or something, SOME of us would love you for it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,Carol Denney, the author
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 10:26 PM

If I had insulted anybody I would be apologizing like crazy. Apology does not seem to be common currency here, and I recognize how valuable that might make it to this group. I've been accused of all manner of things by your frequenters, including falsely pretending to be other people, promoting the assault of perfume on unsuspecting allergic sufferers, but I have insulted none of them, and none of the people who mischaracterized me or tried to personalize the discussion or drag it off topic are being encouraged to apologize. Which is fine with me. Getting my life threatened by smokers for requesting that the observe the smokefree fair policy has made me tough, and certainly produced one of the funniest songs I've ever used in public. I've continued the discussion in the interest of assessing just how poorly informed they are about both tobacco policy and irony. You may not realize it, but the nonsmokers outnumber the smokers, and they are laughing at all of this.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,Carol Denney, the author
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 10:33 PM

Hey Nightwing, thanks so much. I've had several people offer me free studio time and help with posting it on YouTube. I only sent it to this group because there was once a thread asking for nonsmoker songs, and I swear, it is much funnier in a live setting than I realized. Everybody else seems to be able to appreciate that I don't seriously advocate killing smokings. God knows, they're taking care of that themselves.

But hey kids, humor is personal, and certainly reasonable. I ran the use of "scum" by friends from England (you'll see them on my website) who insisted that the overkill was an essential ingredient.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 10:42 PM

"You may not realize it, but the nonsmokers outnumber the smokers, and they are laughing at all of this."

That's what the papers said when we protested the Vietnam War, worked for voter registration, supported Chavez.

'We have met the enemy and [s]he is us.'

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 10:45 PM

That laso post was me. Sorry! DING.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,Carol Denney, the author
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 10:47 PM

If you, guest, honestly don't realize that smokers, who at their peak in US history represented nearly half of the population, are now down to about 10 to 20 percent depending on the locale, then do a little reading. It's really an interesting story of the triumph of science over profit, a story which is not only not often told, but rarely has the opportunity to be told.

Smokers are just pawns, as I said before, in a lucrative game played by tobacco industry executives who need to hook children to keep going.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 11:03 PM

Carol, imo, we are ALL pawns of something or other. Oil companies, stock markets, multi-nationals, court systems that target Black people, Native North Americans, Chicanos, etc., ad nauseum.

Detroit makes cars that suck gas, PG+E sucks money from people (recall that Brown(?) took PG+E to court because they'd been overcharging people?). He won that class action suit (can't recall how much but it was lots) and Nixon's administration (he was Pres then) granted PG+E a rate increase so they could pay what they owed to their customers.

Grass smokers who don't grow their own (or have a friend who does) are supporting murderers south of the border or north of the border. People who use gas-powered vehicles are destroying this planet.

I fight structure fires and we burn gasoline or diesel to get to the structures. And believe me, I do wish I'd never started smoking. I did quit for two years with the help of the patch. My sleep patterns have been fucked up ever since I quit. Now, I awake at 4:00 am every damned day.

Drug companies rip people off BIG time and 24/7. Their response is "We need money to research new drugs." Yeah, right, bite me.

Both our countries are involved in Afghanistan. Kids are dying again and no one can really explain why.


The world is in a mess, I agree. However, I ain't scum. Capiche? Calling a sheep a dog will not make it bark.

G'night.

PS Mugg has a great song on his Myspace site. Let him know I gave it a listen and enjoyed it. Glad to see people are keeping the ol' washtub bass alive.

Best wishes to you.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,Carol Denney, the author
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 11:13 PM

Hello 999,

I didn't say that smokers are pawns in order to insult them - quite the opposite. I repeat, I am only describing smokers who insist on smoking close to musicians, or around children, or, as the song makes abundantly clear to most people, in public street fairs, as scum. I stand proudly by doing so, and wrote the song specifically to target those people. I invite discussion on the matter or I wouldn't be here.

Changing the subject to pharmaceutical companies, or oil companies, stock markets, multi-national corporations etc., might help you feel less guilty as a smoker, but I am not, repeat, not aiming at you. Most smokers have been duped into smoking in the first place, lied to about the effects, and are addicted. You have nothing to feel guilty about. Smokers are being used, and you point out most eloquently that it is not a unique situation.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 11:20 PM

I don't feel guilty that I smoke, Carol. Never have, except maybe for the time I lied to my mother about it when I was eleven.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,Carol Denney, the author
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 11:21 PM

Hey 999, I think that is utterly charming.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 11:44 PM

Thank you very much, ma'am.

I'd point out that I wasn't trying to change the subject. The real subject is people being used by large corporations however we name them. I do my best to avoid food that is over-packaged; I do my best to use as little gasoline as possible; I do my best to be a good person (although at times my mouth makes it seem like the opposite is the case). I also know that doing one's best ranks don't amount to squat when one's best isn't good enough. I have always admired people--you included--who speak their minds. I have read some of your writings that I could locate on the www and you are one fine writer. I guess your song got me on a bad week (some folks have bad days, I have bad weeks ot even sometimes bad decades). If I have insulted you, I formally apologize. And informally apologize, too.

I agree that people who light up around others deserve to have their arses kicked. BIG time. It just ain't right. Were I a non-smoker it would get me POed. So, where does that leave it? From my perspective you have been very gracious--despite the fact I think the song is too "in yer face". I would have felt that tweny years ago when I was wearing the friggin' patch, because after that I have never had a complete night's sleep again. And I think that if I was busking and some guy came over and blew his cigarette smoke around me that it would bother me, too. So, I do know where you're comin' from. Keep on keepin' on, and keep writing/playing your songs. AND, stop leaving that guitar of yours leaning agains things. There there be dragons. AND, direct sunlight is not all that good for guitars. I'm entering my dotage, so I get to complain about all kinds of stuff that is none of my business.

Thanks again, Carol.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,Carol Denney, the author
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 12:28 AM

Dear 999, what a charming message, although I will gently disagree with one minor aspect regarding the actual subject of this post.

Yes, profit governs us through a lot of profit-governed policy. But hard-working advocates have broken through on tobacco policy, and made a solid case for smokefree policies being good for public health as well as good for business. Studies show both of these things- that passing smokefree restrictions benefits both public health and business simultaneously.

But the point of the song and the post was tobacco exposure in a packed, public place; deliberate exposure to children, hard-working musicians, etc. I have been accused of "provoking" this much-needed discussion (a very loaded word)somehow unfairly, despite a thread requesting antismoking lyrics, and I want to make sure the subject stays clear, depersonalized, and fact-based, despite the odds. But you, 999, I would like to invite to tea. You are a lovely person.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: JedMarum
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 01:02 AM

Speaking of Smoke

;-)

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: JedMarum
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 01:03 AM

apologies for the thread creep.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 01:15 AM

Carol, I read your last post twice because I thought it was addressed to someone else. LOL. Thank you. If I ever do get to California I will for sure look you up in Berkeley. Had the best Mexican food ever at a place there--my California friend would recall the name, because his memory still works. The stats seem to show that about 20% of the US and Canada populations still smoke. I figure the reason there is less smoking in Canada is that store-bought smokes are about $10-12 for a pack of 25. A carton 0f eight packs today sells for about $85-90 bucks.


"In the United States, an estimated 24.8 million men (23.1 percent) and 21.1 million women (18.3 percent) are smokers. These people are at higher risk of heart attack and stroke. The latest estimates for persons age 18 and older show...*

Among whites, 23.5 percent of men and 20.6 percent of women smoke (2008).
Among blacks, 25.6 percent of men and 17.8 percent of women smoke.
Among Hispanics, 20.7 percent of men and 10.7 percent of women smoke.
9.9 percent of Asian adults smoke.
24.3 percent of American Indian/Alaska Native adults smoke.

from

National Health Interview Survey (NHIS), 2008, National Center for Health Statistics

********************************

"18% of Canadians (15 years or older) were current smokers in 2008 – a decrease of only 1% from 2007. It has taken 3 years for smoking rates to fall one percentage point when in prior years, smoking rates were decreasing by 1% per year on average. The main reason for the slowing decline has been the availability of cheap contraband cigarettes."

From the Canadian Cancer Society's site.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 05:16 AM

Carol - Thanks for entering the discussion. Your contribution is undeniably valuable. I am not fond of the song as written, just as I would not like Eric Bogles 'I hate wogs' if I just saw it written down. Maybe if I was to see it performed, as I did with Eric's, it would take on a new light.

Anyhow, as I said before, I do have a puff on the occasion cigar, always only in designated areas such as pub smoking shelters or my own back yard so I have no issue with your comments about inconsiderate smokers. What I think you are trying to achieve is good but with your comment but I'm certainly winning the right to smokefree air locally, nationally, and internationally you have lost me I'm afraid. The outside air will never be smoke free as long as we continue using petro chemicals etc. Tobacco smoke must cause a tiny fraction of the damage done to the people and the environment when compared to the hydro-carbon emmisions of industry and motor vehicles.

I feel that by trying to get smoking banned outdoors you are trying to treat a broken limb with a sticking plaster - It is useless. Maybe once we get the major issues resolved, then we can concentrate on the minor but until then I think you are fooling youself if you think that an outdoor tobacco ban will do anything to help!

Just my view, of course.

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: Dave Roberts
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 06:36 AM

Carol,

I appreciate your input into this discussion. I understand your reasons for writing the song, and they're quite justified.
However, it appears that your song will only work in context - i.e. in the open air, in a supposedly 'smoke-free' environment which is being polluted by uncaring smokers.
Taken out of this context it reads like an attack on ALL smokers, most of whom are fully aware of the damage smoking can cause to others and will go out of their way to avoid inflicting it on them.
If the OP had added a note explaining why the song was written, and in what circumstances, people on this forum would, I know, have been a lot more understanding.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 08:24 AM

Carol-

And I still love to listen to you sing "Winter and I," especially when the temperature is in the single digits as it certainly is this morning:

Winter and I, get what's left of the island,
When the tourists go home, and the snow flies!
Winter and I, get along on the island;
She's a good one to talk to – she never replies.

Although I note in the last verse that you implied that most native Mainers smoke, which is incorrect; the survivors have now become a majority:

When it's sunny there won't be a sound on the island,
Except for snow melting and sounds of the bay;
I set up my rocker in the middle of Main Street,
And smoke like a chimney, and practice all day.

I would hope that the temperature in California has not gone lower than 50 this morning.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,Carol Denney, the author
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 10:06 AM

Hi Charley,

The last verse of Winter and I takes incredible license for the rhythm's sake. The fellow in that song, an actual man, quit smoking as well as drinking all winter long, and what he really did was read Shakespeare all day on Mt. Desert Island. I couldn't make it fit.

What you're reading about the national US numbers is an average, and in places with strong smoking restrictions, such as California, the average, which once was 50%, is down near 10%. The numbers are scewed by the increase in young people smoking, the tobacco industry's prime target.

And good news for those who care-- the song was forwarded to our local tobacco control policy director, who is making certain all vendors and festival staff next year are apprised of the smokefree policy and required to comply as part of their contract. A very real victory for a saucy little bit of satire.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 10:40 AM

I find the song offensive, mean spirited and self righteous in the extreme.I am not condoning incoderate bad habits, but the tenor of this song is nothing short of ugly.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,Carol Denney, the author
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 11:25 AM

I completely agree with you - it is designed to be utterly over the top, which is why most people find it funny. But now it can also be accurately described as effective, because it actually changed policy for musicians and future fair attendees.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 11:54 AM

It is not subtle enough to be funny. I know very fwe people who would be amused by this simplistic, self centered rant.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: Dave Roberts
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 01:04 PM

Perhaps you have to hear/see it being performed for the humour to come across?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 01:07 PM

It may have more whimsy when sung. I also don't think it's funny--at least not the written version. The subtle winks intended by the clever wordplay don't make it to the printed page. I figure it must be as hilarious as Carol says it is when one hears it sung.

I figure if someone smokes in their home, they can do whatever they want. If they smoke illegally in public, they should be arrested, and if they blow smoke in your face just to piss you off, retaliation shouldn't be unexpected.

I smoked for 32 years, quit a few times before the final one, and know the addiction inside and out. I find people who behave like scum are scum, but it's the behavior. People who smoke are just people who smoke.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,Carol Denney, the author
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 05:19 PM

I find it amusing that some people in this forum not only can't find the humor in the song but can't manage to celebrate the fact that it changed policy for next year's musicians. It's a rare piece of satire that effectively changes policy within five days over a Christmas furlough. I think I deserve a medal, but hey, go on trashing me. I've survived cancer twice, and I'll survive this.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 06:25 PM

Well, Carol, I've heard kinder songs from you, but there are elements of this song that are quite clever. It sounds a bit like my ex-wife, who nagged against my smoking for twenty years. After the ex kicked me out of the house, I shared a house with a very attractive young woman who said that quitting smoking might improve my sex life. It had little effect on my relationship with my pretty housemate, but it DID work....eventually.

But I really liked smoking, and quitting was one of the hardest things I've done in my life.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,iancarterb
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 07:42 PM

It's a pretty funny thread, and I would love to hear the song live. Next time I'm in the Bay Area, perhaps. Of course people who think they are not included in the rules, which in most public places are now also local custom- folkways- and flout them, and have a thumb in the eye or smoke in the face for those who ask for immediate observation of the rules- are in fact scum, regardless of which side of the Atlantic their definition comes from. They smoke where their children will breathe it, and likely do so all day. The only thing which enables real empathy in an agressive smoker for everyone else is quitting, for even a few days, because only then will they really understand that there has never been a small place with two people in it where only one was smoking. People who knowingly make other people smoke even after being asked not to are at least bullies, who would not do it if they thought they'd get a pop in the snoot for it. Sometimes the gentle song is not as satisfying as the really assertive one.   
Carter, two days short of thirty years down the road from ciggies.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 08:17 PM

Smokers are not a protected class, and it is perfectly legal to discriminate against them in housing, in employment, in restaurants, in any setting you please in the United States.

Of course at one time the same would have been true of gay people. Or black people.

It's a dangerous road to go down, discriminating against people.

I don't smoke, and I'm glad I don't smoke, and I was glad when the ban on smoking in pubs came in. But I think that there's a risk in stigmatising smokers as such - it even carries a risk, in time, of glamorising it as a kind of outlaw symbol of dissidence.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 08:40 PM

Hey, Carol: I suppose that if I ever come see you in concert or when you're busking that you'd get real pissed off if I asked you for a light, huh?



















I'M KIDDING.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 08:45 PM

BTW, I wish you the very best and may the dreaded C never darken your door again. I think that's a mixed metaphor, but you get the idea.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Smokers Are Scum, a gentle song
From: Effsee
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 11:25 PM

Disregarding the definition of the word "scum", whichever side of the pond you are, there is nothing "gentle" about this song.