BS: smoking in uk pubs

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: skipy
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 04:40 AM

Hi, Villan, we all kissed & made up last night so all is o/k.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 04:54 AM

the last post (no pun intended) from villan has been the one of the best in this thread. MCgrath also touched on it.
Encourage people, some of whom are your friends, to give up give them support rather than castigate them, love is always better than abuse.

It is hard to tell what people put in text is exactly what they mean, but some posters have made it very clear that they wouldn't support someone giving up but they will knock them for not doing so.


Let's look forward the ban is comming in let's support people who are trying to kick their addiction (because that's what it is)

signed

A smoker who has now stopped for seven years but not entirely sure I have beaten it.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 05:32 AM

Good words, Guest.
I hve to confess that one of the reasons for my intolerance of smoking now is because I am an ex-smoker, and realise just how strong a hold nicotine can exert. I still sometimes smoke in my dreams, and there are times - say on a crisp winter's night with a fine whisky - that I crave a good cigar.
It is one of the strongest addictions known to man, and it took the death of a very dear friend from a disease that was entirely smoking-related to persuade me finally to kick the habit - even though both my parents had gone to their deaths prematurely because of smoking.
But, as Guest wisely implies, the carrot is oft-times more effective than the stick - so to anyone browsing this forum who is trying to give up, good luck. The cravings last for six minutes at most, so distract yourself for just that short period and you've taken another step.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Rasener
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 05:51 AM

Have sex instead LOL That will also get you fit :-)

30 years since I stopped and do not have any desire or craving to start again.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 06:12 AM

And if it's the nicotine people are after there are other ways - snuff for example.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: jacqui.c
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 08:11 AM

I gave up and smoked my last cigarette on New Years Day 1983. My ex-husband had been advised to stop and I felt that it would be unfair for me to keep on smoking.

There was a period of time when I would have walked on broken glass for a cigarette but the real cravings only lasted for about six months and then it was more habit that was making me miss smoking.

It helped that I had real withdrawal symptoms - stomach cramps were the worst- and had a very uncomfortable week getting past that. That kept me from starting again, the thought of having to go through that extreme discomfort was enough to keep me tobacco free.

After a while the thought of starting again just made me 'taste' that cigarette and THAT made me feel ill. I went through a long period of being fiercly anti smoking but then got to a little toleration, especially since my best buddy at the time was a smoker (luckily of roll ups, which don't have quite the pervasiveness of tailor mades). Since Kendall and I got together the idea of going out with him to anywhere where smoking is allowed is a no no. He lost his voice as a result of the habit and, if you've heard any of his CDs, you will know what a loss that was.

Nowadays there are so many aids to stopping smoking and the financial savings really do make it worthwhile. Best of luck to anyone out there who is trying to give up the weed.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 08:30 AM

I don't regret anything I've said, Villan.
I believe in straight talking. I tell it the way I see it. If other sensitive souls find it hard to take then that's a problem for them. Maybe they need to grow a skin or, better still, take a good look at themselves and their own effect on others.

Telling hard truths has never killed anyone. Smoking kills hundreds of thousands, including thousands who have never smoked in their lives.

If, in someone else's view, I'm a bastard twat, so be it - in the 60 years I've been around, I've been abused by experts and I don't give a flying f**k. At least I'm true to my own standards.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 08:39 AM

Telling hard truths has never killed anyone.

If the way we tell hard truths has the effect that people keep on smoking, when they otherwise might have given it up, is that really true?

Or is the idea of the diatribes to give those indulging in them personal satisfaction, rather than to help other people give up smoking?

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Rasener
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 09:31 AM

Thats really up to you Strollin' and I never implied that you did, but IMHO this thread was heading into serious flaming. I was as guilty as anyone. We all have our opinions and I have very strong views about smoking, just like you and that won't ever change, but this thread is going nowhere if we are all f'ing and blinding at each other.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 09:38 AM

Aye, hard to have smoking without flaming!

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Rasener
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 10:09 AM

Smart bugger CG :-)

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Scrump
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 10:12 AM

The bad news, though, is that patio heaters aren't energy efficient, and contribute to global warming.....

You're right - I believe these are particularly bad for the environment and should be banned, IMO :-)

According to an article on the BBC website, a patio heater emits as much CO2 in 2 hours as a car would emit all day (see here).

I wonder what effect all the smokers are having on the environment, and what benefit it would have if they were all to give up? Are there any figures?

The main problems with introducing the smoking ban are

(a) that it affects people other than the person doing it, a message which seems difficult to get across to smokers, who often compare it to drinking, breastfeeding and other things; and

(b) the status quo is always difficult to change - it's always more difficult to remove a privilege than introduce it. I would call smoking in pubs a privilege that is about to be withdrawn, rather than a "right".

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 11:37 AM

I smoke, but I didn't realise what an evil bastard I must be, until I read this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Scrump
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 12:11 PM

I smoke, but I didn't realise what an evil bastard I must be, until I read this thread.

Well, now you know! :-)

Just kidding - smokers are not evil, just sometimes selfish, perhaps without realising it.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 12:14 PM

Only if you inflict it on others in public places, FP. I really don't care what you do in private, it's your own business.

McG - I don't believe that my firm expressions of what I feel strongly about has the effect you're suggesting. If anyone contemplating giving up smoking is persuaded to keep on smoking just because I told them straight what a pain it is to others, then they truly are fools, and antisocial fools at that.

Now this bastard twat's outta here.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 01:02 PM

Strollin' Johnny obviously hasn't heard of reverse psychology or for that matter manners. There is always two ways to say something one is to the point but polite the other.... well SJ demonstrates it perfectly. Perhaps his last statement is very apt.

I actually agree with his point of view just not with the way he expresses it. You can't insult people and expect them to agree with your point of view.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: DougR
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 01:39 PM

Sometime in May, 2007, Pubs in our city will hang up the old "No Smoking" signs. As a "use to be" smoker of many years, I can hardly wait. Ireland has banned smoking in Pubs for quite some time (not sure how long) but visiting Pubs there is so much more pleasurable now than it was before smoking was banned. I asked a Publican in Clifden, County Connemara, how his business was affected by the ban and he said that it hadn't. Even he was glad that there was no more smoking in Pubs there. That's only one opinion, to be sure, but I thought it was interesting.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 01:40 PM

The thing is, for some people giving up smoking is easy as pie, for others it's incredibly difficult. I had no problem, after smoking for 20 years or so, and nor did my father in law after a lot longer than that, but we were lucky. Just gave it up like that - it wasn't a question of willpower - for some reason the addiction just hadn't kicked in.

I suspect that's a lot more common than people realise, and that many people are frightened of having a big struggle giving it up and don't try, when in fact it might even be easy enough in their case.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 01:46 PM

The fear of change or of failure is a massive hurdle

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Stu
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 01:55 PM

I wish I hadn't of mentioned twats.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: DougR
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 01:57 PM

GUEST: One of the rules that should be followed when one decides to quit smoking is NEVER tell another living soul that you are quitting (until you are sure you have quit).

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Rasener
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 04:11 PM

And don't tell people who smoke, as they love nothing better than trying to make you smoke again, becuase they are jealous that they can't give up. They will taunt you unmercifally until you give in and they have won.
They tried it with me, but I was too strong willed to give in.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: GUEST, ...
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 04:33 PM

As somebody once said, "Giving up smoking is easy - I've done it dozens of times."

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 06:06 PM

Never say you're givingup smoking. Say you don't smoke.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Scrump
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 08:41 AM

One of the rules that should be followed when one decides to quit smoking is NEVER tell another living soul that you are quitting (until you are sure you have quit).


That's all very well, but if you are with friends who smoke, they will tend to notice that you aren't smoking and ask "Are you trying to give up?".

Or maybe you shouldn't socialise with your friends who smoke during the time when you are giving up?

It is more difficult to give up if friends offer you cigarettes, especially if you've had a drink or two and your willpower tends to evaporate.

Like McGrath, some people can give up easily, whereas others apparently struggle. My old uncle had smoked all his life - and he used to smoke strong untipped cigarettes - but after one budget had upped the price yet again he decided enough was enough. That must have been over 10 years ago when he was at least in his 50s or 60s, and he's never been tempted to smoke since.

I used to smoke as a youngster, and after giving up cigarettes I continued to smoke cigars occasionally (at Christmas, family celebrations, that sort of thing). What made me give it up was when my son was a baby - I thought I didn't want to give him any excuse to smoke when he got older, so I gave up even the cigars (I had the occasional craving over the next couple of years but I resisted it, and now I never get them at all). Of course, it didn't stop my son having the odd smoke when he got older (who hasn't?) but he's now grown up and a non-smoker. I hope us not smoking helped!

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: jacqui.c
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 08:56 AM

Scrump - I totally agree with you. My ex and I decided to give up shortly before Christmas so sat down and worked out how to do it. We were going to his ex's house for Boxing Day and we knew that they were smokers. We chose December 27 as the day we would start stopping (?) and got the chewing gum that we had decided would give us the best chance of succeeding.

I smoked my last cigarette on Jan 1 1983. We had a few days off work to avoid being where other smokers were, just to avoid the temptation. For me, the withdrawal symptoms of those first few days were a powerful incentive not to start again. It was definitely worth the discomfort of that time for the benefits afterward.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: vectis
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 03:50 PM

As an ex-smoker I can't wait for the ban to kick in. I can't believe how selfish I was when I was a smoker making everyone else suffer my fallout but as a smoker you don't generally notice the discomfort of smoky rooms.
Sessions in Ireland are now a joy and soon it will be as pleasurable over here. Roll on July.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: DougR
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 04:04 PM

Nobody said it was easy, Scrump. I quit for seven years one time and started again because of the very reasons you stated. I traveled a lot in those days and I'd be out at night in pubs or nightclubs and somebody would offer me a cigarette. One night I took one. Big mistake. I smoked for about seven more years before one St. Patrick's day here in Phoenix, 1976. On that day I tried to smoke every cigarette in Phoenix and drink all the Vodka as well. The following day I delayed taking that first morning cigarette. I am still delaying it. I have no temptation to ever smoke again, and believe me, no amount of cajoling by another smoker would ever convince me to start again. My 46 year old son smokes and the greatest gift he could give me (and himself) woould be for him to quit.


DougR
P.S. I gave up the Vodka four years ago and now drink only a couple of glasses of Red wine at night.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: melodeonboy
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 05:07 PM

I'm seriously thrilled by the ban and I can't wait for it to come in. And here are some of the reasons:


I won't get a sore throat ,runny nose or sore eyes any more.

My voice won't give out part way through a session/singaround or gig.

I won't have to have a shower when I get home from the pub to get the smell off me.

I won't have to keep cleaning clothes that stink of chemicals (it even makes my melodeon smelly!).

After a session or a gig I won't spend most of the next day coughing my guts up.

Many friends, colleagues and family members who either don't come to my gigs at all or who have to leave after a short while due to discomfort caused by smoking will now be able to come for the whole evening and enjoy it.

There's a likelihood that I'll live longer!


That's not an extensive list but I think I've made my point!

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 05:23 AM

M-boy

"I won't have to have a shower when I get home from the pub to get the smell off me."

Your personal hygiene leaves something to be desired

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Scrump
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 12:54 PM

Totally agree, melodeonboy. I don't enjoy most pub gigs at present because of the smoke (maybe we get gigs in the wrong pubs, but they nearly always seem smokier than the ones I tend to go drinking in myself).

I believe I'll start looking forward to the pub gigs a lot more as from July :-)

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Shaneo
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 01:27 PM

Look at what has happened to the pubs in Ireland since the smoking ban.

[1] They said all the non smokers who were complaining would be back they did not come back.

[2] 600 pubs have closed since the ban , three that I know of will be gone this year ,names 'The Swiss Cottage Santry Dublin , The Dollymount House Dublin ,[cant remember the other] all of these pub sites will be turned into flats [apartments]

[3] The pubs are almost empty except for Saturday nights

[4] If a pub has not provided a smoking area for the punters we are out in all weathers.

[5] When you decide to go to a gig , you have to stay until it's over to have a smoke , I went to see Christy Moore last Friday and the venue [Vicar Street] was in darkness , thats the way Christy likes it , but trying to get out for a smoke was a nightmare.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 06:59 PM

Pubs are closing all over England too, and have been for years, and that's without there having been any ban.

Partly it's that people are increasingly reluctant to risk driving when they've been drinking, and anyway the booze from the supermarket is so much cheaper than going to the pub. But mostly, I reckon it's because, what with house price inflation, it's more profitable to shut down the pub and cash in on the real estate value of the property.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: terrier
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 08:20 PM

Sorry if I'm going over old ground but I havn't had a chance to read the full thread yet.
When I was a lad, pubs had smoke rooms and snugs, bars and parlours. Each room had it's own function, each room had it's own community. Now we have open plan booze outlets that serve no other purpose than to encourage people to drink as much as possible. To ban smoking in pubs can only be seen as a way to encourage more people (presumably non smokers) to partake of the alchohol, thereby creating more revenue for the breweries. We know smoking probably causes respitory and heart problems but excessive consumption of alchohol is a much greater cause for concern. At least smokers only kill themselves ( unless one wants to discuss the dangers of passive smoking). Excessive alchohol consumption, on the other hand, has a far greater impact on the people who come into contact with the inebriate. I'm a non smoker but I have no problem with people who go into pubs and smoke, unless I am eating a meal, then it does become a problem but if pubs have a license to serve meals, then they should be bound to have an area that is smoke free, i.e. a separate room.
I agree, smoking should be controlled in public areas but the simplistic way this government is going about it is just yet another ill conceived attempt at controlling an already out of control culture.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 04:21 AM

Shaneo,
Don't know what part of Ireland you are from.
In Clare the ban has had NO effect whatever in numbers.
Recently In Dublin (midweek) we had a problem getting served in crowded pubs. The same with Galway, Limerick, Roscommon and Cork.
Where are these empty pubs - it would be nice to get some comfort somewhere. The pubs that have closed have lost custom because of the clampdown on drink/driving (official - Irish Times).
Smokers out in all weathers - my heart bleeds for you (but my lungs don't).
Last time we were in the UK the overall impression was that is smelt like an old ashtray. I would guess that once the ban comes in there will be the initial whine from the smokers and they will get on with their (somewhat lengthened) lives and allow us to get on with ours, in much increased comfort.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 05:07 AM

Disagree with you Terrier. Sounds like old grapes from where I am sitting.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: terrier
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 10:28 AM

Villan, it's difficult to express ones feelings about a subject in just a few words but I,ve just re-read my posting and still feel that it was fair comment. Sour grapes? Which bit do you not agree with?

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: GUEST,Princess Laura
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 07:10 AM

I am a non smoker. i think thatthe smoking ban is a good idea because its discusting. i also think that terrier is talkings hite. its better with open plans so people are less remote from each other and it helps combat things such as rascisum because everyone is together therefore needs to get along to not get thrown out

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Scrump
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 10:25 AM

McGrath is right when he says there are other reasons why pubs have been closing in the UK over the past few years. Many villages no longer have a pub at all - I'd hate to live in such a village myself, but it seems many people don't mind. A village without a pub is a village without a heart, IMO.

A struggling village pub sold as a going concern is often worth a lot less than it would be if simply sold as a house. There may be local objections to the owner closing it down and just selling it, so the owner's strategy usually involves keeping it going for a while, deliberately running it down and making it unwelcoming to customers, so the profits dwindle until they can legitimately say the business is not viable. Then they can just close it and convert it into a private dwelling. This has been happening all over the country. Pubs are being lost every week (I forget the figure but I think it's something like 6 pubs lost every week on average). At this rate there won't be any left except in large villages or towns.

Personally I'd hate to live in the house that had recently been the village's only pub, but some people obviously have no such qualms.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Rasener
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 11:13 AM

Surely drink driving has killed the village pub, unless you live in the village and can walk to it.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Shaneo
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 12:46 PM

I'm just updating my previous figures for the amount of pub closures in Ireland since the smoke ban of 2003.
The latest figures from the vintners fed. is 800 pubs closed with an average of one a day now going out of business.
It's not all down to the smoke ban , the fear of being breathalised the morning after while going to work has had a Hugh impact.
We have being told for years not to drink and drive and eventually for the most part the message got through and we left the car at home , got a taxi or whatever , so even when we done the right thing they came back and hit us with the morning after breath test.

Fu****g dictatorship , what's a man to do after working all week.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 01:10 PM

There may be local objections to the owner closing it down and just selling it

Do local objections carry any legal weight? I mean, does it actually require planning permission for the owners to close a pub and use it as a house, or sell it as a house? I'm thinking of a couple of pubs I know where that's happened, and I don't seem to remember any planning permission notices stuck up outside, nor any adverts in the local paper inviting people to say if they had objections to the change.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 01:19 PM

As for Shaneo's comment - "morning after" tests aren't any problem unless someone has really got totally rat-arsed. In which place they aren't in any state to drive in the morning, in any case, and Thank God for anything that will keep them off the roads.

Mind you, the way technology is coming along, what with Satellite Navigation systems and all, it won't be that many years before technology will have moved on. We'll be able to go out and drink all we like and then be driven home by our friendly robot chauffeur - who'll probably give us a good talking to on the way about how we should cut down on our drinking for health reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 01:32 PM

Well it's not as if Ireland was under pubbed was it?

I think smoking should be banned in all public places, and the smokers should not be allowed to hang around the entrance to the premises, creating a gauntlet of carcinogenic smells and odours for non smokers to run through!

If smokers knew how disgusting they smell to those who don't partake, they'd give up immediately.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 03:41 PM

That's a demand too far from Giok. The kind of thing I meant when I said some posts could almost drive me to smoke.

If the smokers outside getting up his nose, what's to stop him holding his breath for a couple of seconds till he's inside?

So long as I can have a drink or take in some music in a pub without it being all smoked up, that'll quite good enough for me.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: jacqui.c
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 06:17 PM

My son was once a tenant in the last pub in the village. He soon realised that the intention of the brewery seemed to be to make sure that the pub did not flourish, even with all the effort Andy was putting into it. They just made life very difficult and very expensive for him.

He exlpained to me that, if there is only one pub left in the village, the brewery have to prove that it is not a viable going concern before they are allowed to sell it off. They managed that with Andy's pub by charging him high prices for the beer they supplied which meant that he couldn't compete with the local cricket club or the pubs in the nearest town, about three miles away. He just had no way to be competitive, although the locals praised the way he looked after the cellar. When he left the pub closed and, I believe, the building was demolished.

At his next pub he was the only publican in town who got a cask marque from CAMRA, so he couldn't have been doing too badly!

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: terrier
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 07:09 PM

Exactly Jaqui.C. The small pubs are not proffitable enough. The large breweries are interested in money, the more people you can pack into a pub, the more money they will spend, the small country pub is there to serve the community, not to make lots of dosh.
As for drink driving killing the village pub, if there were more 'local pubs' there would be fewer drunken drivers on the road. It's the breweries who have killed the country pub.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Scrump
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 05:15 AM

Yes, one reason that pubs are closing, especially in rural areas, but some in towns as well, is that most pubs are now owned by large chains (not just breweries, but 'pubcos' that just operate pub chains). These businesses will close a profitable pub just becasue it doesn't meet their demanding profit targets, e.g. they might set a target of (say) 25% and if the pub only makes (say) 15% profit, that's enough reason for them to close it.

The fact that the pub is at the heart of a village community doesn't matter to them - it's only the bottom line that matters to them.

McGrath asked: Do local objections carry any legal weight? I mean, does it actually require planning permission for the owners to close a pub and use it as a house, or sell it as a house? I'm thinking of a couple of pubs I know where that's happened, and I don't seem to remember any planning permission notices stuck up outside, nor any adverts in the local paper inviting people to say if they had objections to the change.

I think there are certain rules about change of use, etc., that come into play, but basically if the owners want to close a pub there are ways round it (make it difficult for the tenant to make a profit, make the pub unattractive to customers, decline it trade, no longer a viable business).

But there have been successful campaigns where the villagers have banded together and organised protests against the closure of their only pub, resulting in the village pub being taken over by the villagers. I know one pub in my area that was saved in this way (the villagers invested in the pub, employed a manager, and it's now very successful and regularly won CAMRA awards, etc.)

I believe CAMRA can provide advice on how to campaign against a local pub's closure, if anyone finds themselves in the unfortunate position of being about to lose their only local pub.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Scrump
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 05:17 AM

Yes, terrier, it's a vicious circle. No local pub means people have to travel to another town or village to get to a pub. That means using public transport to avoid drink-driving. And especially in rural areas, there's no public transport in the evenings, apart from the expensive option of cabs. It's no wonder many people have decided to drink at home instead.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: fair maiden of nottingham
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 06:47 AM

hi all, you seemed to have missed my point...if a pub/folk club or wherever chooses to smoke.....it is your freedom as none-smoker not to enter.
but as a smoker i am now refused. Perhaps standing on the corner playing will be banned from smoking soon, as a traffic hazard

fisheye