BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: Sawzaw
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:25 PM

How History is rewritten:

Obama January 2007
We cannot impose a military solution on what has effectively become a civil war. And until we acknowledge that reality, uh, we can send 15,000 more troops; 20,000 more troops; 30,000 more troops. Uh, I don't know any, uh, expert on the region or any military officer that I've spoken to, uh, privately that believes that that is gonna make a substantial difference on the situation on the ground.

Obama September 13, 2007:
After putting an additional 30,000 troops in, far longer & more troops than the president had initially said, we have gone from a horrendous situation of violence in Iraq to the same intolerable levels of violence that we had back in June of 2006. So, essentially, after all this we're back where we were 15 months ago. And what has not happened is any movement with respect to the sort of political accommodations among the various factions, the Shia, the Sunni, and Kurds that were the rationale for surge and that ultimately is going to be what stabilizes Iraq. So, I think it is fair to say that the president has simply tried to gain another six months to continue on the same course that he's been on for several years now. It is a course that will not succeed. It is a course that is exacting an enormous toll on the American people & our troops.

July 2008
Barack Obama's campaign scrubbed his presidential Web site over the weekend to remove criticism of the U.S. troop "surge" in Iraq, the Daily News has learned.

The presumed Democratic nominee replaced his Iraq issue Web page, which had described the surge as a "problem" that had barely reduced violence.

Obama January 5, 2008:
I had no doubt, and I said when I opposed the surge, that given how wonderfully our troops perform, if we place 30,000 more troops in there, then we would see an improvement in the security situation and we would see a reduction in the violence.


Biden February 11 2010
"this could be one of the great achievements of this administration."

Reporter to Robert Gibbs February   2010
Robert, the Vice President last night said that Iraq could end up being one of the President's great achievements. Given that the Vice President was in favor of a partial partition of the country and the President opposed the surge that helped stabilize it, how is that one of the President's great achievements?

Gibbs:
Well, putting what was broken back together and getting our troops home, which we intend to do in August of this year.Obama press secretary robert Gibbs

Reporter:
But the Status of Forces Agreement to bring troops home was signed before the President took office.

GIBBS
Something that -- something that I think the political pressure that the President, as a then-candidate, helped to bring about.

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: Amos
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:31 PM

Noting that people change their opinions as events unfold, none of what you cite is a patch on the towering deceptions of such statements as "I'm a uniter, not a divider" by the man who produced the biggest schism in the national psyche since the Civil War...



A

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 04:41 PM

Well Amos I think that General David Petraeus must absolutely silently kill himself with inner laughter everytime he meets Joe "wrong-again" Biden.

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: Sawzaw
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 10:49 PM

People change history to cover up for their fuckups.

Also known as CYA.

You use Bush who did not change his mind as a smoke screen to cover for a whiney, weazely, flipflopper who tries to claim credit for what Bush did by claiming he said something different from what he actually said.

Bush was right about the surge and Obama was flat ass wrong but he is too arrogant to admit it.

Remember when Obama was chest beating about Guantanamo? Executive order signed January 22, 2009 to close Guantanamo within a year? Sorta over due now isn't it?

McCain said he thinks the new president may have been hasty in the decision and should have taken the time to consider everything associated with closing the camp before forcing himself into a timetable.

Specifically, McCain said he thought Obama needed to consider what would happen to the prisoners held at Guantanamo before ordering the facility to be closed.

"So, the easy part, in all due respect, is to say we're going to close Guantanamo," McCain said. "Then I think I would have said where they were going to be taken. Because you're going to run into a NIMBY [not in my backyard] problem here in the United States of America."

Obama was flat ass wrong and McCain was right.

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: Amos
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 11:02 PM

My Sawz, you sound so bitter and angry.

Closing Guantanamo was a right action, but you are absolutely 100% correct that the follow-through should have been thought through first.

As for the Surge, don't get too stuck on the Right Wing Mythology; remember that the locals had a LOT to do with the changes that occurred in Iraq at the same time.

A

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: Sawzaw
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 12:06 AM

Amos:

When was Guantanamo closed? When did Obama follow through on his big chest beating promise?

McCain was 100% correct that the follow-through should have been thought through first.

Why do you think I am bitter and angry? You sound like an Obama brown shirt or maybe even a Chavez red shirt, willing to take a bullet for the chief no matter how bad he fucks up.

The locals did have a lot to do with the surge being a success but how does that correct Obama's mistake and allow him to take credit for some one else's plan that he opposed?

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: Sawzaw
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 10:41 AM

Harry Reid 4/19/07 press conference:
"this war is lost and that the surge is not accomplishing anything"

Harry Reid on PBS 12/21/07:
"The president said, "Let's send some more troops over there, and that will give the Iraqis the time to take care of themselves." We sent other troops over there, and there are a lot of reasons the surge certainly hasn't hurt. It's helped. I recognize that."

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: Sawzaw
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 11:57 PM

Bill Clinton on NPR

....Clinton said that the general's much-discussed wish for more troops is based in part on the success of the "surge" in Iraq.

"But let's remember why the Iraqi surge worked," Clinton told Linda, for a story due to air on tomorrow's Morning Edition. "It worked because the United States and our allies performed well -- but they performed well in partnership with the Anbar arising ... with the Sunni Iraqis being sick and tired of what al-Qaida in Iraq did and willing to put their own necks on the line."....

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 01:38 AM

Go Google "Sunni Awakening" you self-proclaimed expert on everything.

Good God. Now I remember why I don't come here much anymore. There are lots of good thoughtful folks, plus the the four- or five-member asshat club.

Sigh.

Go ahead, delete the post. I won't even notice....

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 02:31 AM

TIA - the asshats don't actually CONTROL the rum, although they think they do, and they try damn hard as well... :-P

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: Lox
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 07:00 AM

Whats the difference between an Ass hat and a Jar head? ...

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 07:30 AM

The funny thing about ass-hats is that they are not content to just reveal themselves in current threads so they revisit old ones to further reveal themselves...

The must think that folks here are the same moron in the street who is too busy bustin' his butt making a living to undertand what the components of "The Surge" were... Problem for the ass-hats is that folks here ***are*** paying attention...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: Sawzaw
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 09:40 AM

"you self-proclaimed expert on everything."

Moi? You seem to have a grudge because the surge, according to several prominent people. worked. I merely posted what Bill Clinton said.

You can post anything you want.

You might want to tell us what would have happened without the surge.

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 04:11 PM

The goal here is perpetual war. The Afghan war is the longest in history for the US and it isn't over yet. Why is that? What's so great about the "surge"? What happened with the surge is that it prolonged the war.

There are those who want and like war.

60 cents of your tax dollar goes to support the Iraq and Afghan war.

Don't look under the curtain.

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 09:03 PM

No, Sawz... Just the things I know about... As fir "The Surge" I would doubt that if you were to ask a 100 people what the tactical components of it were that you'd find 5 who had any idea other than the PR on it which was merely "more boots on the ground"... That was a very simplistic answer then and it's no less a simplistic asnwer now...

Yeah, strings... Ike warned US about what we now have... He warned US that the military/industrial complex, if left unchecked, would damage our country and it's future... Now we're in the midst of it and guess what??? The very people who are pissed off about their taxes being too high are the ones who are always up for a new, shiney war??? Go figure???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: Amos
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 09:31 PM

You guys really need to say which surge you are talking about.

The surge in Iraq was coincident with many other factors which contributed to the reduction of hostilities, but the Bush PR machine tried to cover itself with glory despite that.

The Afghan surge has not succeeded yet.


A

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 02:54 AM

The Afghan "surge" Amos has as yet hardly commenced, the troops assigned in December last year will not all be in place for about another six to eight weeks.

My son who is now out there on his fourth tour tells me that they are still in the process of building up base facilities to receive them.

At no time during the entire time the Soviets were in the country did the "Mujahideen" ever consider their war as being in a "stalemate" condition. At no time did they EVER consider talks or a compromise with the Soviet invaders. The leader of the Taleban, Mullah Mohammed Omar, has been stating that the fighting has been at a stalemate since 2008 and there have been numerous contacts with the various Taleban groups for years.

In the spring and summer of 2006 the "Afghan Taleban" swore that they would destroy ISAF in Helmand Province. This was the Taleban who had rested and re-organised over the border in Pakistan in the three years previous. They were then at their strongest and most capable and they only faced 680 combat troops out of a total ISAF force of 3,300. They failed to destroy, or even discourage ISAF in 2006, so how on earth do they think they are going to succeed against 30,000 ISAF Troops plus an equal number of ANA forces. Security, employment and education will defeat the Taleban in both Helmand and Kandahar, the international community and the Afghan Government can offer the people of those Provinces all three, the Taleban on the other hand can only offer those people a continuation of what they have had to endure for the past thirty years.

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: Sawzaw
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 02:54 PM

Amos: "You guys really need to say which surge you are talking about."

When this thread was started there was only one surge.

Bobert: "I would doubt that if you were to ask a 100 people"

You are welcome to your doubts and assumptions and opinions but they do not constitute facts to anybody but you.

I realize that a question such as this is largely a matter of opinion so I have posted here several instances of important people that said the surge worked but you always want to divert the subject into another direction.

Does your opinion matter more than them. Obama can do no wrong in your eyes but when you and he conflict on something you immediately draw the discussion elsewhere rather than having to admit either you or he is wrong.

The only people left that argue against the success of the surge are the ones that so vehemently were against the surge. Then the more it appeared that it might succeed the nastier and more strident they would get. Now all they can claim is the Awakening did it.

Would there have been an awakening without the surge and if so would it have succeeded without the surge?

You can call me mental or stupid or whatever you want but that does not enhance your credibility. Instead, it weakens it.

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: gnu
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 04:56 PM

I understand the US is geared up to get Afghanistan surge men, equipment and supplies in place in a limited amount of time during the coming summer and fall. They apparently have a tall order to fill if the surge is to be effective.

The volcanic eruption in Iceland may play in favour of the Afghans.

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 07:51 AM

Only if the cloud of ash from the volcano halts air traffic all over the world and that is not likely

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 01:52 AM

Al-Qaida leader captured in western Iraq
2010-04-18

RAMADI, Iraq, April 18 (Xinhua) -- Iraqi security forces captured an al-Qaida leader on Sunday in a raid on an insurgent safe house in the country's western province of Anbar, a provincial police source said.

Mohammed Abed, a leader of al-Qaida militants in Anbar, was captured after being wounded during the raid in the city of Rawa, some 280 km northwest of Baghdad, the source told Xinhua on condition of anonymity.

Based on intelligence reports, a force from Anbar police command raided the house in Rawa in an attempt to arrest Abed who traded fire with the attacking force, wounding two policemen, the source said.

The police also seized 34 blasting caps which can be used in detonating explosive-belts, roadside bombs and car bombs, the source added.

Anbar province has seen deadly attacks in recent months, although it has been relatively calm in the past few years after Sunni tribes and anti-U.S. insurgent groups turned to cooperate with the U.S. troops and Iraqi security forces against al-Qaida in Iraq network.

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 04:11 PM

ya hoo mission accomplished.

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 07:58 PM

There were no al-qeada in Iraq before Bush ordered up the invasion...

Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 12:24 AM

Maybe not Al-Qaeda as such, but people very closely allied and associated with them. Two that immediately spring to mind are Zarqawi (who ultimately formed Al-Qaeda-In-Iraq) and Mullah Krekar whose group Ansar al-Islam, was "hosted" by Saddam Hussein to foment trouble in the Kurdish North.

In August 2002, while Krekar was in Iraq, the Norwegian government revoked his refugee status on the grounds that he had traveled back to his homeland and spent long periods there directing terrorist activities.

In the summer of 2002, Zarqawi settled in northern Iraq, where he joined the Islamist Ansar al-Islam group that fought against the Kurdish-nationalist forces in the region. Before the invasion of Iraq in March 2003, Zarqawi met with Bin Laden's military chief, Saif al-Adel (Muhammad Ibrahim Makawi) in Iraq, who asked him to coordinate the entry of al-Qaeda operatives into Iraq through Syria. Zarqawi readily agreed and by the fall of 2003 a steady flow of Arab Islamists were infiltrating Iraq via Syria.