BS: Britain tops the yobs league

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 05:10 PM

We're both fine, Divis - Well, she's fast asleep on the sofa but that's nowt new:-)

Fair enough - I must say I didn't read as you did but if we were all the same life would be very boring wouldn't it? I can well understand your annoyance. I guess the thread must have hit some raw nerves somewhere to provoke the reactions it did. Didn't with me in any way and I can just accept that we do have a problem without trying to justify it. Get me going on...

Oh no, hang on, I'm not saying or somewill soon will!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: ard mhacha
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 05:13 PM

I started this Thread for one reason only and we get some flag waving Brits trying to turn the Thread around to suit their own selfish ends.
I waited before I started this Thread to see if someone from Britain would take up the baton, unfortunately this didn`t happen.
This Thread is important not only to Britain but also to Ireland, the European body whose report I quoted did not include Ireland in its survey, I did so and the stupid reaction from Shields Folk would be worth reading again, the point is this, Britain is in a serious situation regarding its youngsters and those that ignore this are foolish in the extreme.
I hope I make myself clear put away your loyalty to you motherland and look around you and tell me I am wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Shields Folk
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 05:17 PM

read what I have just wrote muppet I am agreeing with you.
You spend your time waving the flag for Ireland, but thats all tickety bo!

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: ard mhacha
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 05:22 PM

You are a sick man, Shields Folk, waving the flag for Ireland?, no pointing out facts to a one-eyed bigot.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Shields Folk
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 05:26 PM

I take issue with one point you clandestinely try to make ard and I am a sick man and a one eyed.

You've been found out bonny lad.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Mick
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 05:30 PM

Seachnaíonn súil ní nach bhfeiceann.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 05:36 PM

well even if we are drowning in a sea of drug addiction and drunkeness - what exactly are a load of middleaged/old folk music fans supposed to do about it?

newspapers just talk a load of shite anyway. Nottingham (down the road from where I live) is supposed to the gun crime capital of England. I don't know a single person who owns a gun.

For years I worked in the inner city schools as a supply teacher and gigged the roughest bars, and at no time did I ever see a dispute settled with a gun.

yes there is a drug problem, but you'd have to go looking for it to see it. Yes the behaviour of young kids pissed out of their heads on a weekend does make the city centre a damn good place to stay out of.

but its only important if you can do something about it. all one can do is behave yourself, and try not to be sick on the next bloke.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Shields Folk
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 05:42 PM

Thanks for that Mick but I think it is his choice not to see

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Mick
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 06:48 PM

Ní rabhas ag labhairt leis-san, do bhíos ag labhairt leatsa.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Shields Folk
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 06:53 PM

You were on half the night working that out!

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 07:49 PM

You know. it strikes me reading this there's a ceertain amount ogf yobbery cropping up in soem of the posts in this thread. I suppose its not surprising.

At least you can't get glassed on the net. Mind, there's probably someone workimg on a technical advance that will make that possible...

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 04:51 AM

I thought it was Britain (scotland, wales and Northern Ireland) that topped the yobs league not just England.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 05:06 AM

I think that was the point that some people are missing, Tom. It has been stated quite categoricaly by our Irish friends that this is the case. In fact Ard Mhacha went one step further to say that the problem was in all 32 counties of Ireland, not just the North. I think a couple of people have taken 'Britain' to mean England.

A long time ago now, due to sensible discussion and a certain amount of enlightenment here, I decided that Britain and British were becoming very negative terms. Too empirical and far too out-dated. Did you know tha the first British colony was England? What the hell is British anyway? No-one could ever come up with an explanation that suited all so it's about time we did away with it. Scotland and Wales now have their own administrations. What is wrong with just saying we are English? People from Scotland, Wales and most of Ireland dropped the British tag years ago. About time we did the same.

Now, if someone was to say England or even, heaven forbid, Lancashire, was the worst place in the world then there would be trouble:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 05:12 AM

I think it was the Provisional IRA that is responsible here. See all the old training camps in those small self catering holiday villas in Mayo, Wicklow and Donegal are lying empty. Bet they sent them over sober, load with with Guinness, Harp and Bushmills (All Irish produced) Taught them their own social skills, then let them loose on the streets of Ireland.

Once they have wrecked the odd phone box, pulled up a couple of dozen tulips, brought up the contents of their stomach over a bank auto till (including carrots). Them that's them ready for export. Right you little bastards, you have 24 hours to get out of Ireland, otherwise you'll be walking with a limp. Boat fulls of these yobs arrive in England. Job done.

I really didn't believe Michael Stone would accept our dare yesterday at Stormount. Yes the Provo's were at it again. Supplied him with a 9 mm Beretta M9 automatic pistol, a bag full of home made nitrocellulose cordite tin bins complete with blaster caps and no doubt you know the rest.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 05:19 AM

I thought this was about Britain, and not England, however yer right. the Scots, Welsh and the Northern Irish have got rid of the tag Britian long ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 05:21 AM

I just nearly ruined my laptop with coffee, Divis, yer bugger:-)

You could be onto something though. I don't think it's the provos though. Could be the government. They have just announced they want to replace the Trident programme. Imagine what an effect hoardes of youbs would have in the field of defence? OK, Korea, stop that testing or your streets will run with leftover MacTuckey bits. Iran? No chance against spewing Tommy and his mates. It would scare the hell out of me anyway:-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 05:38 AM

I thought the word British comes from Brythons who invaded and then went to Wales. Blame it on the Welsh.

the mIchael stone thing is strange - almost beyond belief. A modern day Guy Fawkes. Just needs the hat with a feather in it. Surely, Broadmoor this time....?

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 05:59 AM

Dave, you will be getting black balled on this site, the company you are keeping !

Al I agree it was a strange thing for Mick Stone to do. Last two years he has went and met all the families of those he killed, sold his artwork at an exhibition and gave most of it to charity. He has received government money to teach the youth in the East Belfast area the wrongs of terrorism and become a saved follower of Christ.

Pity he hadn't of got in, I am sick of the game playing among all of them. As young couples try to get a start in life these elected guys play with their lives and deny them all the benefits they could enjoy from a deal.

Peter Hain if a man at all, should post out letters on Monday afternoon, saying "Hello guys, sorry but the £134,000 pay cheque for you and your secretaries and researchers took a nose dive. It's here and waiting on you when you all grow up".


Mick Stone has a serious drugs problem, I think that's what fueled it.

Now please understand, these were Irish drugs he was using, made in Ireland, sold to the Irish, never saw the light of day in England.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 06:03 AM

Now, if someone was to say England or even, heaven forbid, Lancashire, was the worst place in the world then there would be trouble:-)

What about if it was Yorkshire?

......................
Looking at those pictures in the press, are we quite sure it was Michael Stone and not Billy Connolly?

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 06:28 AM

Visited both and thought they were lovely.

The doors at stormount have been sticking lately, they resolved the problem yesterday, there was a large Stone stuck in them !

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Shields Folk
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 06:50 AM

I have not missed any of "the points" above.
I am not reading Britain as England.
I have not buried my head in the sand.
What I am doing is accusing the original poster of choosing the subject and the title of the post to be inflammatory.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 07:13 AM

More yobbery, I see...

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: ard mhacha
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 07:33 AM

Poor oul Shields there is no getting through to him, "the bonny lad is young but he`s growing", sad his brain didn`t comply.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 07:57 AM

I suppose the sack of explosives and the gun are just things he had hanging round the house from before he got saved. In the attic with the Ludo set from when he was a kid.

Stormount looked beautiful, all floodlit on the telly. fabulous looking building.

Shields, we've been inflamed, shocked beyond measure that Ard could express disparaging thoughts about dear old Blighty - now we're onto somethin else......

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Shields Folk
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 09:14 AM

...start another thread then.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 11:38 AM

The only people it may be inflammatory to is the British and as I said - Who are they? As far as I know they don't exist. Dunno where this survey got the idea from. The only people that I know who call themselves British are the ones who want to hold on to the old imperial standard. And I guess they will always top the yobs league.

Divis himself started a thread a while back about Northern Ireland being the worse place in Europe for race crime. No-one saw that as inflammatory. I didn't see anyone jumping to the defence of that region. What we saw was a good understanding of the problems faced and a civil discusion of the whys and wherfores. Why can't this thread be the same?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Shields Folk
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 11:55 AM

Divis hasn't a history of inflammatory posts towards the Irish though but.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 12:42 PM

Here's the Institute for Public Policy Research home page. Could someone flag up the research report that kicked off this thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Joe Richman
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 01:32 PM

I see my buddy Big Mick is posting here. I've got a story about American youth out wandering at 3 AM to tell you.

My oldest daughter (age 24) announced on Thanksgiving that she was going to a "Midnight Madness" shopping event in Commerce at the Citadel. Commerce is an industrial burg next to East LA, with a big outlet shopping mall in an old tire factory (The tire factory had a babylonian facade, hence the name "Citadel"). Commerce also has a casino a couple of blocks down Telegraph Rd.

My wife had a fit over that, even when she said her girlfriend was going too.   Well I had to go along to ride "shotgun" for the two of them. We got there, got parked and got in line. There were long lines in all stores. Not one argument did I see, an occasional inquiry about where the end of the line was, but that's all. Most of the shoppers were teens or twenties. Most were Latinos (probably Mexican, but I didn't do a survey). My daughter's blond friend was easy to spot. All of the racial/ethnic groups who live within an hour of the place were represented. Some were dressed like punk rockers. We got some pretty good bargains and left at a little after 3 AM. I didn't notice a big security presence, although there was some of what's normal for an LA mall. No drunks, no one hit on the young women in our group, no problems.

So please keep the British and Irish Yobs out of LA.

Joe

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 01:48 PM

It's nice to read that Joe thanks. Throughout this thread I had asked for our friends in America and Canada to let us know their thoughts.

I imagine Boston or Chicago couldn't say the same thing, as both are full of Irish.

Divis.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 01:52 PM

Great story, Joe. Kind of shoots holes in the stereotypes, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Joe Richman
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 01:54 PM

I didn't say keep out the British or Irish. Just when you come leave the Yobs behind.

BTW I have an old 78 titled "Serutan Yob" (a parody of "Nature Boy").

Joe

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: ard mhacha
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 04:35 PM

McGrath go to the BBC website, in search type in Britain`s teenagers and drink, and you will read all about the report plus the many replies to the survey.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: ard mhacha
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 04:43 PM

C`mon McGrath have you visited the BBC Site yet, before anyone does so, be prepared for a shock, the various reports are a lot worse than has been suggested on this Thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: ard mhacha
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 05:08 PM

McGrath, once again, go the BBC Site and in Search type , UK youths among worst in Europe, and you will see the results of The Institute for Public Policy Research. Hurry along now.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Shields Folk
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 05:12 PM

McGrath I visited that site days ago.
not a jot!

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Shields Folk
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 05:29 PM

You will find bellow the 'SHOCKING' info that has lead to this lengthy thread.

From what I see Britain topping the yobs league exists only in the imagination of ard mhacha, although they might make the playoffs!



UK youths 'among worst in Europe'

British youngsters have a reputation for heavy drinking
Britain's teenagers are among the most badly behaved in Europe, a study by a think-tank has suggested.
On every indicator of bad behaviour - drugs, drink, violence, promiscuity - the UK was at or near the top, said the Institute for Public Policy Research.

The institute looked at the results of a number of studies of adolescents conducted in recent years.

The researchers believe the country's record can be explained by a collapse in family and community life in the UK.

Free time

Measured against German, French and Italian youngsters, British 15-year-olds are drunk more often and involved in more fights, and a higher proportion have had sex.

The institute says young Britons are marked out by how they spend their free time.

They are not learning how to behave - how to get on in life - as they need to

Nick Pearce
IPPR


Send us your comments
Why teens go wrong

In England, 45% of 15-year-old boys spend most evenings out with their friends, and in Scotland the figure is 59%.

In France just 17% of boys spend their time in the same way.

On the other hand, European teenagers tend to sit down for meals with their parents far more often.

Some 93% of Italian teenagers eat regularly with their families; in the UK just 64% of 15-year-olds do the same.

'Structured interaction'

Nick Pearce, from IPPR, said these figures pointed to an "increasing disconnect" between children and adults.

He said youngsters were learning how to behave from one another instead of from adults.

"Because they don't have that structured interaction with adults, it damages their life chances," he said.

"They are not learning how to behave - how to get on in life - as they need to."

The researchers concluded that the lack of adult interaction has left British teenagers increasingly vulnerable to failure.

Brand awareness

One study looked at by the IPPR suggested 38% of British 15-year-olds in 2003 had tried cannabis - compared with 7% in Sweden and 27% in Germany.

Another said that in 2003 British 15-year-olds were the third worst binge-drinkers in Europe - only Denmark and Ireland were worse.

Britons are also more immersed in consumerism than American youngsters, the research claimed.

This was indicated by their brand awareness and the amount of importance they attached to consumer goods and possessions.

The IPPR's report is due to be published next week.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 07:04 PM

If at all possible I prefer to be able to get at the actual report is this kind of thing rather than what some journalist makes of it.

This kind of summary doesn't really give too much to go on.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Shields Folk
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 07:19 PM

It was enough for Mr Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 07:40 PM

The BBC story was, of course, quite enough to justify starting an interesting thread, which has been disrupted at times by petulant and irrelevant sniping. It is much better to read earlier posts before shooting off at random. It is advisable, when in a hole, to stop digging.

The IPPR report was not available at that time. The BBC summary, dated November 2nd, concluded with the words "The IPPR's report is due to be published next week."

Now it has been published. My query was directed at finding if it is possible to read it online.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Shields Folk
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 07:48 PM

You cannot deny that the original post was with a malicious intent
"Britain tops the yobs league"
Fresh from the front page of THE SUN

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Shields Folk
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 07:49 PM

..or perhaps you can?

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 11:15 PM

I suppose we can cut ourselves a bit more slack in the way we behave, because in England its not so easy for people to lay their hands on guns as it is in LA. Its unusual - even here in the 'strife torn' gun crime capital of the UK for anyone including professional criminals to settle disputes with a gun. Whereas in America, they kill the equivalent of the population of a medium sized town every year in 'gun related incidents'.

When I was a teacher , most visiting American teachers thought our kids were far more polite than the home grown variety. Still the grass is always greener. I personally, always had the impression I was dealing with little bastards.

America is very good on these 'polite-isms' - the have a nice day syndrome - which one sometimes feels masks quiet desperation. Still maybe a bit of 'quiet' desperation instead of the noisy stuff would be a change.

And as for the title ....you know Ard would never be anything but polite and pleasant, and a perfect gentleman when it came to the subject of the English. that's just the little sweetie that he is, and we have all grown to love him for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: ard mhacha
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 06:30 AM

No amount of twisting and turning will alter the obvious in that BBC report,
McGrath you are wrong the details in the report were there for all to see and read, the obvious answers were contained in the BBC report and no amount of silly hair-splitting will disguise that.
To return to the main point of this Thread, Britain is in serious trouble, and admitting as much will help matters, a few PMs I received from sensible `Catters convinced me I was correct to give this disease affecting our youth an airing on Mudcat, to suggest otherwise is foolish and turning the debate into a personal attack, is hiding from the real crux of the matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Shields Folk
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 06:45 AM

I always had McGrath down as a "sensible 'Catter"
There you go I'm wrong again

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: ard mhacha
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 06:56 AM

The report by IPPR was issued in full on November 6th and can be read at their Site.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Shields Folk
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 07:19 AM

The full report, Freedom's Orphans:Raising youth in a changing world, can be purchased from the Ippr site. An executive summary is available for free. There is no league table mentioned in the summary for Britain to be top of. The word yob is not mentioned in the summary.

Tell me ard have you purchased the full report?

Perhaps based upon this information the title of the thread can be changed.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 07:27 AM

Ard mhacha is correct. I went and read the IPPR on line the day that he started this thread. I doubt his intention was to bring controversy here as is now being insinuated.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST,another guest
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 07:33 AM

I think Shields is correct. Ard Mhacha's post was politically motivated.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: ard mhacha
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 07:42 AM

The PMs from Mudcatters tells me otherwise, and to get back to the main point , Google, British towns and drunk youths, this is the reality, hiding behind a nationality issue will not make this go away.