Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:32 PM

Does anyone know why Dylan decided to do anything?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:33 PM

GUEST: Get your cookie and repost.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:33 PM

Why do we need to know why he did it?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:34 PM

The rich man . . . is always sold to the institution which makes him rich. Absolutely speaking, the more money, the less virtue.

Henry David Thoreau

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,Good Guest
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:38 PM

Thoreau never did get those royalties, did he?

brucie, naw, still not that interested even if I did post a couple of times defending Dylan.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,Define Good
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:43 PM

Love,

Brother Bob

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:43 PM

Because Thoreau said it, it must be true????

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:47 PM

What Dylan's doing may or may not be right, but at least everyone know who he is. I don't feel I've contributed to the downfall of western civilization because I don't use my money to purchase from VS. Nor have I seen the ad--the blue clicky gave me a chopped up version of it. I would suggest, again, that people who disagree with the subliminal or in-yer-face stuff simply write the company and tell it they are losing a customer. To guote one of the subjects of this thread, "Money doesn't speak, it swears." What should be of greater concern is the dollar figure one of the guests (3:42 pm) quoted above. Three and a half billion dollars is lots of money. So, maybe all the perverts aren't dirty old men. Got to be some gals out there wearing the stuff. Well, them and penguins, huh?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,Define Good
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:48 PM

Because he is Dylan, he can't be a sell out????

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:48 PM

Sure he can, but who said he shouldn't?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,Good Guest
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:55 PM

Who said this was a sellout, anyway?

But brucie, everyone knows you've contributed to the downfall of civilization in so many ways even if we have to let you off the hook for this one. :D

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:58 PM

True. It's the penguins.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:02 PM

Right, Dylan selling ladies knickers isn't selling out.

And so what if it is? I'm sure he needs the money to buy his Viagra.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:03 PM

Can't really imagine Joan Baez doing a similar ad for some firm that sells bloke's underpants...

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:04 PM

Define a sellout.   The fact that you are on a computer and not using your name shows that you too have sold out. You aren't you!!!!

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:06 PM

1)Being a older man who still appreciates younger beauty does not make me, OR Dylan, a 'pervert'. (I can appreciate pretty younger women...I don't expect them to jump in my lap. Who should I look at-Bella Abzug?)
2)Millions of young girls don't CARE- they like being admired and like it when they can make $$$$ BEING admired.
3) this thread started as fun...it has become another stupid debate about who offended who first.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,Good Guest
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:11 PM

"Can't really imagine Joan Baez doing a similar ad for some firm that sells bloke's underpants..."

Hard to say. You haven't been to Chippendale's on senior's night, I take it.

Ron, I am too me. He's not him! Or her. Guess it is confusing.

Looks like Dylan's not the only one selling out and I bet brucie's at the bottom (no pun intended) of it.

Selling Out?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:19 PM

Why is someone signing Strick's ":D" to the Good Guest posts?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:22 PM

"Define a sellout."

Well, Dylan for starters.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,Good Guest
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:24 PM

:D is internet smilie for this

Everyone knows that.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:24 PM

Is that allowed? To use someone else's 'signature' like that? Curious. Strick ofetn signs his posts with that :D. Good Guest who posted at 4:55 did that. What gives?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:25 PM

OK. Thanks.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,One GUEST or another
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:26 PM

Not to post anything offensive to you, of course.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:26 PM

Guess everyone didn't know that.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,Jolly Good Guest
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:27 PM

Don't worry Good Guest. brucie is just feeling sheepish over his sophmoric behavior logging in as Guest Victoria, Guest Brittany, et al so he wants some company from another member posting anonymously in hopes of it making him look less like an idiot.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:28 PM

Strick always sign his/her name, so I wondered. Now I know.:D

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:31 PM

sophOmoric you twit.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:36 PM

I've cancelled dinner this Sunday. I was going to have guests but now I've changed my mind.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,Good Guest
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:40 PM

Signed in as Shania Twain or Sheryl Crow, maybe... Oh, you were talking about brucie, not me.

You say sophomoric like it's a bad thing. Why not lighten the mood?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:44 PM

The wines they are a-changin': bottled Bob to sell for £35

John Hooper in Rome
Tuesday March 30, 2004
The Guardian

Bob Dylan is a man of many aspects: poet, protester and born-again Christian. Now, it seems, the bard has turned to the bottle.
The eternal bohemian has developed an interest in upmarket Italian wine, with the result that, later this year, a classy blend of Montepulciano and Merlot will reach the shelves in a bottle signed by the singer and bearing the name of his 1974 album Planet Waves.

"I tried to make a wine that reflects both sides of his character," said Antonio Terni, a lifelong Dylan fan who owns a vineyard near Ancona. "Angular, difficult and unpredictable like Montepulciano, yet generous and friendly like Merlot."

On the label is a suitably inscrutable disquisition on causes and effects which ends with the words: "What pushed two guys from opposite corners of the world to put their names on a bottle of Italian red wine? Destiny? Fate? Coincidence? Planet Waves."

Their joint venture began in November when Mr Terni, who spends his holidays going to wherever Dylan is performing, met his drummer at a party in Milan. He took advantage of the meeting to send his idol a bottle of a wine he had produced called "Visions of J", after the Dylan song Visions of Johanna.

"I got back an email from his manager asking if I could do something to help him become more involved in wine," Mr Terni said. The singer has been sent samples of the new wine to approve. His only return would seem to be some free bottles.

The wine, a 2002 vintage, will retail at around £35. This may help to explain a characteristically abstruse part of Dylan's All Along the Watchtower: "Businessmen, they drink my wine, ploughmen dig my earth, None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:50 PM

Remote Control Weblog
San Diego Union-Tribune television critic Robert Laurence's observations on television

March 31, 2004
Bob Dylan and lingerie

There weren't any boots of Spanish leather, nor a leopard skin pill box hat, but that was Bob Dylan in a TV commercial for Victoria's Secret which ran Tuesday night during "American Idol."

And it wasn't a pretty sight.

Yes, there was Dylan's craggy visage right there in the middle of the clothes line saga, right with Victoria's young, leggy models.

Bad idea, Bob.

he looks like a gentleman of some years leering through a hole in the wall at the babes in their dressing room.

But this isn't all.

Bob's also licensed the title of his "Planet Waves" album as the name of an Italian wine.

Do you think he needs the money?

Posted by Robert Laurence at March 31, 2004 01:49 PM |

I know sex is supposed to sell. But sex with Bob Dylan? EEUUGH!

Posted by: ziza at April 2, 2004 06:08 AM

I think the add is a bit disturbing, I get the dirty old man vibe from it also. Jacob Dylan would have made it a good commercial. Not Grandpa Dylan!

Posted by: Dee at April 2, 2004 08:18 AM
Post a comment

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 06:02 PM

Guest Brittany wasn't me, nor was Victoria

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 06:06 PM

How can you say the mood isn't light? Didn't you like the Viagara joke as a response to why Dylan made the ladies undies commerical with the angels?

Now I'm trying to envision the New Old Bob obituaries, wherein he is listed as singer (sic), songwriter, actor (ahem), and spokesman for Italian wine and ladies lingerie.

"Icon of Italian Wine, Scantily Clad Women, and Protest Songs Departs Planet Waves"?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 06:12 PM

Well, that makes it Miller time.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: freda underhill
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 06:24 PM

hey, whacko guest/troll/troublemaker

if you want to get stuck into dylan, okay, hes an international star. leave brucie alone, he's my star.

"We have had professional sports people advertising shoes made by enslaved children in SouthEast Asia. Is this any more lewd or disgusting than that? We use tax money to have farmers burn wheat crops rather than get that 'surplus' food to where people can eat it. Millions starve to death every year on this planet, and the moral f#ckin' majority is worried about some ad that don't amount to a hill of beans."

wise words, bruce.

and interesting, what this guest is saying is that older men are dirty pedophiles who lust after young women, and that by happening to be in a room when a Victoria's secret ad comes on, they are all digusting drooling animals.

its a low blow to get stuck into someone's age. its a low blow to get stuck into someones sexuality. and to combine those into the one hit is even lower. GUEST, you're projecting a lot of negative thoughts onto men, mature aged man, here. men over fifty, women over fifty, we have a whole range of feelings, emotions and experiences. leave us, GUEST.

i think its just a matter of time before a mudcatter gets tageted by some troll, ive realised this. strangely something a bit like this happened to me here in the cat, last week. i was lucky in that no negative comments appeared in a public forum.

but these comments here are nasty.

i went to jeff (pene azul) who tracked down the evil dude. GUEST, while youre anonymous in the post, you still leave a computer trail.

hey bruce, come around to my place and I'll cook you a meal. you can bring your cats and penguin. anytime.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,BH
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 06:35 PM

I was despondent when Dylan sold the rights to "Tangled Up in Blue". What kept rumbling through my thoughts was "Aint it hard when you discover that/He really wasn't where it's at/After he took from you everything/He could steal.."

I didn't think he could sink much lower than where he has gone in the last decade or so. But Victoria's Secret? Jesus. Is Dylan so isolated and surrounded with sycophants that there is no one to tell him that the commercial not only makes him look creepy, but that commercial endorsements always end up making the artist look petty, greedy, and stupid?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: freda underhill
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 06:39 PM

and furthermore..

young, men don't appeal to me. they're like skinless chickens, all smooth and uninteresting. I like people with character, people who've lived a life, who've developed their potential, people with humour, and with strong feelings.

no amount of Calvin Klein body spray or designer clothes can replace that.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,Jolly Good Guest
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 06:39 PM

So freda, I take it you are both a brucie and a fan of The Bob?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: freda underhill
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 06:43 PM

yes, a big fan of both.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,Jolly Good Guest
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 07:03 PM

So it's fine for the fellas to look at acres and acres of airbrushed, smooth, wrinklefree skin, but not a mature woman, right?

So boys (that includes you freda), why do you suppose it is that Dylan didn't make a commercial selling "Just Her Size" undies with 60 year old nearly nude women?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 07:26 PM

Because, 60 year old nude women appeal to 60 year old nude men.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,Al Aronowitz, reborn
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 07:32 PM

Cool of you to suggest that, Jolly Good. I'll mention it to Bob and we'll see if he goes for the idea. You may recall that he had an old, notably unattractive, fully clothed cleaning lady featured at length in the video of the song "Sweetheart Like You" (1985 - Empire Burlesque album). It wasn't well received by an uncomprehending public, because it did NOT feature a young, attractive woman. Apparently Bob can do no right when it comes to this matter...according to certain people.

Old, wrinkly men do not get a good reception from the public either, but there is Bob on camera...this could be seen as a form of liberation, I think. Though one gets old on the outside, on the inside one never really stops being young. And that is because: the soul does not age.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 07:38 PM

Not like cheese

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 08:16 PM

"...an old, notably unattractive, fully clothed cleaning lady..."

Interesting that when I challenged the age bias that freda said she was sick and tired of, that the above is apparently what "60 year old woman" conjures for Reborn Al.

But actually, I wasn't thinking that 60 year old women were unattratctive, bottom of the status hierarchy "cleaning lady" sorts of people when I said "60 year old nearly nude women".

Rather, I was actually thinking more along the lines of Tina Turner, Toni Morrison, Joni Mitchell, Diane Keaton, Lauren Hutton, Buffy St Marie, Julie Christie, Vanessa Redgrave, Joan Baez, Emmylou Harris, or a bazillion others.

Or the millions of beautiful older women with smooth AND wrinkled (in all the right places) skin, large and small bones, short and long legs...

But you run with your stereotype there Al, and I'll run with mine.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 08:18 PM

I get the impression that some people may have missed that it is clearly intended to be tongue in cheek. Well, it's intended to sell underwear, so far as the people paying for it are concerned, but it's being done in a humorous mode.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 08:43 PM

Calender Girls

As GUEST Date: 02 Apr 04 - 08:16 PM (use a bloody handle!) was saying...

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 09:27 PM

Dylan's words taken up and put into a different song by Steve Goodman and quite appropriate here:

"Ain't it hard to realizzzzzzeeee
He ain't sellin' any alibiiiiiiiiiis
As he stares into the vacuum of your eeyeyyyyeyeyyyyes
And says, D'you'wanna make a deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeal? "

<"We wound up at the lost and found
Love is blind but now I see
That my whole world lies waiting
Behind...Door Number Three">

Selling out is one of the two great American Traditions
the other one is striving to be the kind of person who has something worth selling out

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 09:45 PM

Some of you people are just too much. The man doesn't walk on water. If he wants to sell a song for a commercial, so be it. If you don't wish to buy the product, don't.    How dare anyone try to place their values on someone else.

I still think he looks great in the video - not craggy but clean. Isn't it a bit hypocritical for people to make fun of the way Dylan looks and then take exception to the way a model looks?

I know that I've contributed to this mess of a discussion, but isn't it rather sad that we can waste so much energy discussing women's underwear and what a man chooses to do with his own life? Shame on all of us, myself included.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,Al Aronowitz, reborn
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 10:13 PM

It's clear as rain to me, Jolly Good, that we have both failed to understand one another's intentions and implications. That makes us even. I admire mature women. Have you seen the video of "Sweetheart Like You"? Does the woman in the Victoria's Secret ad strike you as "immature"? Hard to say, isn't it?... unless you've met her.

I think you're just pissed off that I don't make as vulnerable a target as what you had in mind....nor does Bob Dylan. But again, I may be wrong. Maybe you are filled with nothing but good intentions. I wouldn't bet on it, though. ;-) I suspect that you are in fact mean and spiteful, and hoping to score some really hurtful points on various regular members of this forum while beating your favorite drum. It's hard to do that when they, like you and me, remain nothing but a faceless name on a computer screen.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: freda underhill
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 10:40 PM

you know, i havent even seen the ad!!