Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Raggytash
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 07:02 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/17/ancient-roman-winery-found-ruins-villa-of-quintilii-rome

An Amazing 2nd -3rd century Winery is being excavated just outside Rome.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 07:57 AM

It's been 20 years in this modest home. I've rearranged the deck chairs on the Titanic many times.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 18 Apr 23 - 08:54 AM

Roman gateway rebuilt in ‘exact spot’ at site of invasion of Britain Reconstructed rampart structure that stood almost 2,000 years ago will open to visitors in Richborough, Kent. An 8-metre-high rampart and gateway built almost 2,000 years ago at the spot where Roman forces invaded Britain has been reconstructed for 21st-century visitors.

The original structure was built to allow soldiers a clear view of any threat to the military base they created at Richborough in Kent, the main entry point to Britain from mainland Europe and often referred to as the “gateway to Britannia”.

Built by English Heritage, the charity that looks after more than 400 historic buildings, monuments and sites, the reconstructed gateway opens on Wednesday alongside a display of items found at the site ...

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: DaveRo
Date: 18 Apr 23 - 02:32 PM

The gateway looks like a copy of the one at The Lunt

The wooden ballustrade, with its X pattern, looks just like the ones English Heritage, who maintain these sites, build to stop visitors falling off their castles.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 19 Apr 23 - 05:28 PM

surely visitors would have more sense than to do stuff that puts them at risk of falling???? (irony alert)

Divers find wreckage of experimental submarine built in 1907 in Connecticut

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Helen
Date: 22 Apr 23 - 02:11 AM

Rare hoard of
1,000-year-old Viking coins unearthed in Denmark

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Apr 23 - 10:54 AM

Quite a tour of the Old World this morning, visiting these links.

In particular, interesting about the winery near Rome:

Lying on the ancient Appian Way as it runs south-east from Rome, the villa had its own theatre, an arena for chariot races and a baths complex with walls and floors lined in sumptuous marble.

But the story of the villa, whose origins lie in the second century AD, has just become even more remarkable, with the discovery of an elaborate winery unparalleled in the Roman world for lavishness.

The facility included a series of luxurious dining rooms with a view on to fountains gushing with young wine.

Sounds like what tourists see today (without the slavery that kept the older establishments going).

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 13 May 23 - 07:17 PM

Archaeologists discover 4,000-year-old temple in western Peru

so I went looking got more info - not yet mentioned here, but there are lots of other interesting articles to check out

It's so new that I can't find anything more. Peru has a number of very old sites up to 4000 years old but I can't find anything about this one - yet

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 May 23 - 07:50 PM

It's easy to dive down the rabbit hole with some of the links off of those pages. And a brief tour of the Rio Chancay in Peru on Google Earth. Thanks!

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 14 May 23 - 07:42 AM

they have a lot of great articles + some that are a bit fringe (& some that are very fringe) but I don't read those.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 16 May 23 - 11:43 PM

Bones of two more victims of the Mount Vesuvius volcano eruption found in Roman ruins of Pompeii Two more skeletons have been found in the ruins of Pompeii — the ancient Roman city wiped out by a Mount Vesuvius eruption nearly 2,000 years ago — the Italian Culture Ministry has said.
The remains are believed to be of two men in their mid-50s, who died in an earthquake that accompanied the volcano eruption in 79AD, a ministry statement said ...

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 16 May 23 - 11:48 PM

Two Victims Found To Be Killed By Earthquake In Pompeii Disaster Zone - lots of pics & video

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 17 May 23 - 11:05 AM

‘She has stories to tell’: digital scan of Titanic wreck could reveal its secrets 'Digital twin’ of ship created by deep-sea mapping firm may help shed new light on 1912 sinking
The Titanic has been depicted in unprecedented detail in the first full-sized digital scan of the wreck.
The unique 3D view of the entire vessel, seen as if the water has been drained away, could reveal fresh clues about how she came to sink on her maiden voyage in 1912. The scans also preserve a “digital twin” of the ship, which is rapidly being destroyed by iron-eating bacteria, salt corrosion and deep ocean currents ... related articles below this article

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 25 May 23 - 05:13 AM

something a little different!

‘Ancient’ vase repatriated from UK to Greece faces fresh forgery claim Exclusive: Archaeologist says 5th-century BC wine vase with modern decoration widely regarded as fake.
Days after Greece announced the recovery of hundreds of antiquities from a disgraced British dealer, its ministry of culture faces the accusation that one of those artefacts, a vase of the early 5th-century BC, bears a decoration that is in fact a “modern forgery” created in the 1990s.

Christos Tsirogiannis, an archaeologist based in Cambridge, expressed astonishment that the ministry had included the olpe – a vase for wine – among treasured ancient objects that will be coming home.

He told the Guardian that if they had conducted adequate studies they would have known that it had been dismissed in 1998 by the foremost expert, among many examples of forged decorations on ancient vases – in this case, with an added modern design of a satyr and a goat ...

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 27 May 23 - 07:49 PM

Archaeologists say Moluccan boats depicted in Arnhem Land rock art, solving mystery At Awunbarna, also known as Mount Borradaile, the rock shelters are decorated with paintings of European ships, guns, fish, prawns and macropods.
But since the 1970s, two specific paintings of boats have stood out as different to western archaeologists.
Researchers from Flinders University have this month published findings that suggest the art depicts ships from the Maluku Islands — previously known as the Moluccas — in Indonesia, which could have reached Australian shores prior to colonisation.
The authors say the work deepens Australia's understanding of how its first people interacted with foreign visitors ...

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 30 May 23 - 06:21 PM

Oldest evidence of plague in Britain found in 4,000-year-old human remains Traces of Yersinia pestis bacteria were found in teeth of people buried at bronze age sites in Cumbria and Somerset

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 31 May 23 - 04:30 AM

oops, there's a little typo above!
Oldest evidence of plague in Britain found in 4,000-year-old human remains


Silver in ancient Egyptian bracelets provides earliest evidence for long-distance trade between Egypt and Greece

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 31 May 23 - 07:29 AM

Sandra, with genetic archaeology it has been deduced that in the last 12,000 years, the population of various human species was reduced to an extremely tiny gene pool caused by multiple disasters. It may why humans are now a single species. What is your take on this?

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 02 Jun 23 - 06:46 PM

I've never heard of that theory

Ex-garbageman's flash of intuition leads to discovery of ancient statues in Tuscany further to this story - Etruscan and Roman statues pulled from the mud in Tuscany thanks in part to the intuition of a retired garbageman.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jun 23 - 10:50 PM

100,000 years ago there were about 5 species of humans. That homo sapiens survived is recently theorized that we were the most friendly.
Survival of the most friendly and cooperative is a new way of looking at evolution. Comparing dogs to wolves there is a mutation of chromosome 7 in dogs that make them more friendly. We have a similar shared trait of friendliness with dogs. Woof !

https://www.amazon.com/Survival-Friendliest-Understanding-Rediscovering-Humanity/dp/0399590668

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jun 23 - 04:17 AM

We don't all have that trait.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stanron
Date: 05 Jun 23 - 04:54 AM

We've noticed.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 05 Jun 23 - 06:06 AM

Friendliness is a side-effect: it's empathy that's the driver.

Oh, and dogs are friendly because we've bred them for that, and they've selected us for being able to do so.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jun 23 - 07:01 AM

Thats true but a mutation in wolves may be the beginning of dog breeding.
Friendliness and cooperation are at the heart of building projects be they neolithic or more complex architecture. We know homo sapiens by their buildings. I speculate some other human species are still in our chromosomes deep down like the Neanderthals. Not that short people are related to Hobbits but certain disease models may be related to archaic species.
The great mysteries still remain of how certain great stones were moved and manipulated.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 05 Jun 23 - 10:10 AM

> a mutation in wolves may be the beginning of dog breeding

It is (dog breeding is better called "unnatural selection"), but needs to be backed up by training. A domestic dog is something like three meals away from reverting to wolf, or less in the case of carnivorous penis extensions carefully mishandled macho dogs. It's a complicity, where humans selected domestic wolves, amongst other things, for susceptibility to training, while domestic wolves initially selected humans for the ability to train by granting them better hunting success.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jun 23 - 01:28 PM

The chromosome/evolution of dogs stuff isn't really an archaeology subject.

That Tuscan discovery of ancient statues (offerings) was pretty interesting. Thanks, Sandra!

Then, former bin man and amateur local historian Stefano Petrini had "a flash" of intuition, remembering that years earlier he had seen bits of ancient Roman columns on a wall on the other side of the public baths.

The columns could only be seen from an abandoned garden that had once belonged to his friend, San Casciano's late greengrocer, who grew fruit and vegetables there to sell in the village shop.

When Mr Petrini took archaeologists there, they knew they had found the right spot.

"It all started from there, from the columns," Mr Petrini said.

Later in the article "The statues found there were offerings from Romans and Etruscans who looked to the gods for good health, as were the coins and sculptures of body parts like ears and feet also recovered from the site."

Were I alive back then I guess I'd have had someone carve statue parts of each of my knees and toss them in as an offering, hoping they'd get better. Today, we go see the orthopedic surgeon.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jun 23 - 01:58 PM

Google map of the general area. I've been poking around on Google Earth to see if it might be one of the existing thermal pools or something else with Roman columns nearby, but I think they've wisely removed the location to try to protect the site. Google Earth has a "time slider" that can take the map back about 20 years - trying to push it back to 1985 didn't result in a visible map. The land has seen more development, but the same three thermal pools and one river area are the same all the way back.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jun 23 - 02:28 PM

This thread was getting humorous. Who knows 5,000 years from now we might be known as Google man, the last species before homo-sapiens became AI hybrids.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 05 Jun 23 - 11:34 PM

World's oldest-known burial site found in South Africa challenges understand of human evolution Paper is not yet peer reviewed - so might be challenged

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 13 Jun 23 - 07:09 PM

‘Astonishing’ Roman tomb unearthed near London Bridge station Some of the largest Roman mosaics found in 50 years were unearthed on same site last year.

The remains of a Roman mausoleum “with an astonishing level of preservation” – believed to be the most intact structure of its kind discovered in Britain – have been unearthed in London.

The “incredibly rare” find has been excavated at the The Liberty of Southwark development site, a stone’s throw from Borough Market and London Bridge station, the Museum of London Archaeology (MOLA) has revealed.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Jun 23 - 06:04 PM

That mausoleum looks compact enough that they should be able to lift the entire thing and put it somewhere safe.

There are plans for the future public display of the mausoleum, which underwent significant modifications. A second mosaic directly beneath the first indicates it was raised during its lifetime. The two mosaics are similar, with a central flower surrounded by concentric circles.

Although the tomb was almost completely dismantled, probably during the medieval period, the signs are it was a substantial building, perhaps two storeys high, and would have been used by wealthier Romans, possibly as a family tomb.

Like peeling back layers of an onion.

There's another link on that same page about what appears to be the remains of a Roman alter that would have stood where the Leicester cathedral now stands. Folktale becomes reality as Roman altar unearthed at Leicester Cathedral. This was published in March, so apologies if I missed it the first time if it was shared here.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 17 Jun 23 - 07:44 AM

German archaeologists unearth Bronze Age sword so well preserved it 'almost still shines'

For something sitting in mud & bones, it certainly shines, it's not an over-the-top description!

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jun 23 - 08:44 AM

opinion:
As different as the Naldi homo species was from the Neanderthal, the Neanderthal was probably different from us. We may have viewed them as wildmen. 80% of Homo Sapiens possess the cooperative trait of empathy.
My hypothesis within the theory of Survival of the most cooperative is that Neanderthals were without empathy which made them by our definition psychopaths. Empathy is a nascent trait as is narcissistic psychopathy.
Prison populations contain over 30% psychopaths. Evolution may diminish that trait over time. Brain size is not the issue but the nature of the brain is most crucial. 20% of the current population are psychopaths may sound high but psychopaths in suits are a real problem. It is not an accident that Trump's base is also 20$.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 17 Jun 23 - 10:09 AM

*Disagree*: istr reading about Neanderthals making toys for their children, and possibly being earlier than hom sap in producing certain sorts of artwork*, both of which suggest empathy. This "other => inferior" mindset is well attested, from ancient (and modern) racism up to MAGA, and is often a dominant driver for warfare and genocide.

Required reading: Asimov's essay "Nice Guys Finish First!" (exclamation mark in original), where he argues that he's being not-nasty out of pure self-interest, because co-operation and circumspection are vital for the long-term continuance of hom sap as a species. It's the last essay in The Sun Shines Bright.

* I originally had "musical instruments", but that might be a false memory.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 21 Jun 23 - 06:49 PM

Virgil quote found on fragment of Roman jar unearthed in Spain Excerpt from the Georgics was carved into vessel used for olive oil 1,800 years ago

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jun 23 - 12:30 AM

Their theories are certainly all over the place about how that text came to be there. It's almost silly to try - it is what it is.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jun 23 - 12:41 PM

I was in a waiting room for a couple of hours last week. I overheard an Ethiopian gentleman on his phone and immediately equated his language with ancient Egyptian. Days later I googled this...
Ancient Ethiopian was spoken down to 1600 A. D., when it broke up into the modern dialects. These modern dialects are still the most primitive Semitic languages, and the closest thing existing to ancient Egyptian, Egyptian's direct descendant, Coptic, having become extinct.

Weird huh?

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jun 23 - 04:56 PM

One of the most difficult undergraduate courses I took had the benign name "The History and Development of the English Language." You'd think if you speak it the course would be easy. Nope. One lecture included a discussion of the fragments of ancient Sanskrit that are peppered through European languages and are more prominent in languages spoken in India.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jun 23 - 05:08 PM

Step aside Latin, Sanskrit is it.

I must have been exposed to Coptic at some point.
btW Ethiopian sounds absolutely beautiful and totally different.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 27 Jun 23 - 05:12 PM

The stolen head A high school in regional Australia holds ancient human remains, which are a long way from home.
Inside Grafton High School — among the books and computers of the school library — there’s a box that has fascinated and perplexed generations of locals. Because inside this box, there’s an Egyptian mummified head. It’s not exactly clear how this head journeyed from Egypt to Grafton. And there are far bigger questions posed by these ancient human remains.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jun 23 - 06:24 PM

There is evidence ancient Egyptians sailed to Australia.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 28 Jun 23 - 06:48 AM

Ancient Aboriginal underwater site in Flying Foam Passage thought to be deepest in Australia In 2019, scientists from Flinders University discovered hundreds of ancient stone tools and grinding stones at the underwater site of Cape Bruguieres, off the Pilbara coast.

A second underwater site was also discovered at the nearby Flying Foam Passage, but only one artefact was found at the 8,500-year-old fresh spring.

But the recent discovery of four more ancient stone artefacts in the passage has given scientists the confidence to confirm its status as an ancient site (read on)

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jun 23 - 02:43 PM

I'm just musing but...The absence of evidence is not conclusive evidence of absolute absence. After a couple million years traces of archeological artifacts should be zero.
That leaves some big questions unanswered. How do we know we’re the only time there’s been an industrial civilization on our own planet?“
Could we even tell if there had been an industrial civilization [long before this one]. Evidence least seen is beneath today's ocean water.

An Atlantic ridge continent may have existed. Indonesia was a large contiguous area. Even Antarctica was tropical but now the European Space Agency has found evidence of prior continents beneath the ice and ocean. there is also a similar climate pattern to today back in the Pleistocene era.

We don't see any homo sapiens a million years ago but there were other species. We traced human footprints in New Mexico to 21,000 years ago and Africa suggests 70,000 years of habitation and don't get me started on ancient Turkey. Graham Hancock suggests after the last ice age and great flood it seems remnants of another pre-civilization that drowned, built pyramids worldwide with available resources.

200 years ago the question of whether there might be a civilization on Mars was a legitimate one, But once the pictures came out from interplanetary probes, that was settled for good. And that view became ingrained, so now it’s not a valid topic for scientific inquiry; it’s considered ridiculous. But no one’s ever put the actual scientific limits on it—on what may have happened a VERY long time ago.

Roman history is only yesterday.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jul 23 - 12:53 PM

Don, there you have the basis for more than one science fiction novel or film.

From the Smithsonian, This Ancient Maya City Was Hidden in the Jungle for More Than 1,000 Years
Archaeologists surveying the ruins of Ocomtún found pyramids, stone columns and a ballgame court

Researchers from Mexico’s National Institute of Anthropology and History (INAH) have discovered the remains of a centuries-old Maya city in the Balamkú ecological reserve on the Yucatán Peninsula.

In a statement, lead archaeologist Ivan Šprajc says the settlement probably served as an important regional center during the Maya Classic period, which spanned 250 to 1000 C.E. The team named the newly discovered ruins Ocomtún—“stone column” in Yucatec Mayan—in honor of the many columns found at the site.

“The biggest surprise turned out to be the site located on a ‘peninsula’ of high ground, surrounded by extensive wetlands,” says Šprajc in the statement, per Google Translate. “Its monumental nucleus covers more than [123 acres] and has various large buildings, including several pyramidal structures [nearly 50 feet] high.”

There are lots of links to things mentioned in the topic, and a nice photo of the LIDAR view of the location. (Ever since I learned about LIDAR at a conference in ~ 1999, I figured it was going to appear again and again in reports about the discovery of this kind of archaeological site.)

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Jul 23 - 07:42 AM

Modern material science is uncovering an origin of some megalithic stones that could have been molded in place. Geopolymer cement stones are becoming a reality again. They account for perfect fit and mass' too heavy to move all at once. what are geopolymer cements?

A chemical method of melting Inca stones together is also a likely possibility chemical stone melting

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Jul 23 - 02:32 PM

Things like geopolymers are examples of "counter-factual conditionals".... IF "X" was true, "Y" might have been the case. Just speculating that they "would" have explained megalithic curiosities "IF" ancient folks had them is interesting, but actual tests have shown how various 'impossible' stuff was done is in the Erich von Däniken realm.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 03 Jul 23 - 06:29 PM

Mesolithic pits found on Houghton Regis building site Archaeologists have discovered up to 25 Mesolithic pits on what has been described as a "nationally important prehistoric site".

The pits, found in Houghton Regis, Bedfordshire, are up to 5m (16ft) wide and 1.85m (6ft) deep.

Animal bones found at the bottom of the pits have been used to identify them as about 8,000 years old.

Prof Joshua Pollard, an expert of British prehistory, described the discovery as "very exciting" (read on)

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jul 23 - 02:37 PM

Surprisingly the Chinese used sticky rice as the ingredient in the stone mortar of the Great Wall.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jul 23 - 06:41 PM

"After a couple million years traces of archeological artifacts should be zero."

Why? We have fossil remains of organisms going back for about three billion years. When I was at university I extracted and studied epidermal cell material from ancient Araucaria species (modern-day equivalents would be monkey puzzle and Norfolk Island pine trees). Not big bones, not petrified stuff: soft leaf tissue from the Jurassic, the real McCoy. So why would you think that archaeological remains made of hard rock would disappear in a couple of million years? That sounds like the seven-stars pete school of mythology...

And not science fiction, Maggie. Just fiction.

Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jul 23 - 07:50 PM

Maggie?