Subject: Anger songs From: rastrelnikov Date: 27 Nov 97 - 09:01 PM As I was reading the whiskey in the Jar thread, I remembered someone telling me that many songs from the old men-only mining camps were extremely bitter towards women. Yeah, yeah, lots of bitter songs out there. But curriously, the only real anger song I can think of is: Follow me Up to Carlow which isn't even traditional. Are there really no anger songs that survive for long? |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: rastrelnikov Date: 27 Nov 97 - 09:03 PM ...yes, songs like Barrett's Privateers are angry, but they're not SUNG ANGRY. Ever try to sing Barrett's Privateers all the way through with an angry tone? It doesn't work. Comments? |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: Alex Date: 27 Nov 97 - 09:45 PM You want Angry? Check out the song REVOLUTION sung by Dick Gaughan on at least two of his albums. (http://www.dickalba.demon.co.uk/main.htm) |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: Barry Date: 27 Nov 97 - 10:15 PM Sailors, too, wern't very fond of woman at the workplace, thought it would bring bad luck, (see Canadee-i-o in the DT). Some angry songs in the mining field or vein, Ewan McColl's "Go Down" & Ed Picket's "Ee Aye, Aa Cud Hew" or bordering on bitter/angry, Deborah Silverstein's "Draglines". Seams or seems that this may become a long thread, so here's a few more, "Crooked Jack", the Aussie transport song "Jim Jones, Stan Roger's "Harris & The Mare" & the Scottish version of "Geordie" & again bording on bitter/anger, from Northumbria & the 1715 rebellion "Drentwater's Farewell". Barry |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: judy Date: 27 Nov 97 - 11:13 PM Not anger towards women but how about "Nell Flaherty's Drake". It's got the best line up of curses. judy |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: rich r Date: 27 Nov 97 - 11:38 PM I think the "Unreconstructed Rebel" deriving from the post Civil War days is plenty angry and bitter. rich r |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: Earl Date: 28 Nov 97 - 12:26 AM I think "Sam Hall" was pretty angry. |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: leprechaun Date: 28 Nov 97 - 02:57 AM Yes, Judy, Nell Flaherty's Drake has a wonderful string of invective! |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: leprechaun Date: 28 Nov 97 - 03:01 AM Which reminds me of a song I heard years ago in which some fancy man rides up to a clever and beautiful woman who tells him she wants what's between his legs. He tells her she can have it. So she takes his horse. A deal's a deal. |
Subject: Lyr Add: ONE SUNDAY MORNING^^ From: Bill D Date: 28 Nov 97 - 07:55 PM ok....this is so angry it scares me...I'm curious about the origin...I have known it for 30 years and every now & then I sing it to make a point about things...don't even know the official title...'One Sunday Morning' is what I call it..
"One Sunday morning, while on me way to mass
....Fol de rol de rol de rol--fol de rol de rol de ray
"When an Orangeman dies, they throw him in the hole ...cho...
"If I had a yard of an Orangeman's skin ....cho..... the tune is stridant and chilling...I assume there are places where this is/was sung seriously...and I hope I never have to BE in that place.
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Subject: RE: Anger songs From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca Date: 28 Nov 97 - 11:50 PM I don't think Harris and The Mare is particularly angry. The anger is all over; he's already killed young Clary for hitting his wife and just wants to get his unconscious wife home. Even Stan's The House of Orange is not particularly angry. It is however what most Canadians of Irish descent think when asked to contribute to "The Cause". I don't think it could be stated better.
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Subject: RE: Anger songs From: judy Date: 29 Nov 97 - 03:36 AM How about "Johnny Be Fair" in the DT about the girl who gets mad because she wants to get married and her father keeps telling her that her boyfriend(s) is really her brother. But when she complains to her mother, the mother says Oh daughter, haven't I taught you to forgive and to forget Even if this all is true, still you needn't fret Your father may be father to all the boys in town, still He's not the one who sired you, so marry who you will and a mother's anger at war in "Mrs. McGrath" judy |
Subject: Lyr Add: WEE WEE GERMAN LAIRDIE^^^ From: judy Date: 30 Nov 97 - 01:06 PM Looking through my collections Rastrelnikov, You can add a great many songs of war to this thread of one people hating another. Many are sad more than angry. Here is one from the Jacobite Rebellion. I'm sure a better man (person) than I am (Gunga Din) will give us the exact history of this "German Lairdie" who came to sit on the throne of Scotland and was so dispised. I heard this song on "The Thistle and Shamrock" radio show sung by a woman. Mel Bay's "Songs of Scotland" has a version. I've tried to translate the difficult underlined words but, as you can see, some still need work. Anyone? The Wee Wee German Lairdie a Jacobite air Verse I Wha' the de'il hae we gotten for a King, But a wee, wee German lairdie, And when we gaed oot tae bring him hame, He was delvin' in his yairdie (digging in his garden) Wi'oot the hoose and but the breeks (without hose and trousers) And up wi' his beggar duds he cleeks This wee, wee German lairdie. Verse II And he's clappit doon in oor guidman's chair (sat down hastily in our throne) The wee, wee German lairdie; And he's brought fourth o' foreign trash, And dibbled them in his yairdie (planted) He's pu'd the rose o' English loons (knaves) And broken the harp o' Irish clowns But oor thistle taps will jag his thoons (tops) This wee, wee German lairdie. Verse III Come up amang oor Heiland hills Thou wee, wee German lairdie, And see how the Stuarts' lang-kail thrive They dibbled in oor yairdie; And if a stock ye dare to pu', (stalk?) Or haud the yokin' o' a plough, We'll brak your sceptre ower your mou' (mouth) Thou wee, wee German lairdie.. Verse IV Oor hills are steep, oor glens are deep, Nae fitting for a yairdie; And oor Norland thistles winna pu', Thou wee, wee German lairdie; And we've the trenching blades o' weir, (war) Wad prune ye o' your German gear (goods) We'll pass ye 'neath the claymore's shear, Thou feckless German lairdie! Verse V Auld Scotland, thou'rt ower cauld a hole For nursin' siccan vermin; (such) But the very dogs o' England's court They bark and howl in German. Then keep thy dibble in thy ain hand, Thy spade but and thy yairdie; For wha' the de'il now claims your land But a wee, wee German lairdie? judy |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: Lidi Date: 30 Nov 97 - 01:18 PM How about Young Ned Of The Hill? Is it fair enough to say that that´s an angry song? Sláinte Lidi |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: dani Date: 30 Nov 97 - 02:47 PM It may cross over in some other genres, but when I want to indulge a foul mood, Woody Guthrie's Mean Talking Blues usually does the trick. |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: Bruce O. Date: 30 Nov 97 - 05:05 PM Wee wee Greman Lairdie. I know nothing about its background. The earliest version that I know of is in Cromek's Remains of Nithsdale and Galloway Songs, 1810. It's on p. 177 of the 1880 reprint. Versions also appear in The Union Imperial Songbook, p. 236, 1815, and in Hogg's Jacobite Relics, I, p. 83, 1819.
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Subject: RE: Anger songs From: dick greenhaus Date: 30 Nov 97 - 05:19 PM I guess I don't mean what some other folk mean by anger. To my ears, anti-war songs like Johnny I hardly Knew Ye; IWW songs like The Wobbly Doxology and the Wobbly parody of Onward Christian Soldiers; songs of mis-requited love like Sportin' Batchelors; Leftish political songs like the Ribald Rebel's Song....all of these are mad as hell. |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: Moira Cameron Date: 30 Nov 97 - 08:24 PM Some of the angriest song's I've ever seen were written by Eric Bogle; "Honest working man" comes foremost to mind. Some of Leon Rosselson's political songs are pretty angry. I judge an 'angry' song by the feeling I have while singing it. Some anti-war songs, for example, I find are very provocative and sad, and perhaps make me feel angry as a subject in general, but not necessarily while I'm singing them. And then again, the feeling of the song invariably changes, depending on what mood I'm in, what political and social events are presently in the news, etc. For example, while participating in anti-Gulf War demonstrations, I felt a lot of anger while singing anti-war songs. I probably wouldn't feel that way about them right now, however. |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: judy Date: 30 Nov 97 - 09:37 PM Bruce, Do you have any history about the "Wee, wee German Lairdie?" judy |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: alison Date: 30 Nov 97 - 09:51 PM Hi, The only thing written in my book about the "Wee wee German Lairdie" is that the knig being ridiculed was George the first. I sincerely hope that all Canadians of Irish descent are not so bitter and predjudiced as the thread above suggests. It may not be an angry song but to a lot a people, (not just Orangemen) it is deeply offensive. we're mostly very nice friendly people, (both "sides"....I hate that term!)and the majority of us live together in peace. end of rant slainte Alison |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: Bruce O. Date: 01 Dec 97 - 11:00 AM Judy, (Wee wee Graman Lairdie) James Hogg in Jacobite Relics really says little of its history, beyond that three lines of his version of the song were from an older collection than Remains of Nithsdale and Galloway Songs. It's Scots, so this is really a question for Murray S., but he might not find it under this thread title.
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Subject: RE: Anger songs From: Jon W. Date: 01 Dec 97 - 11:14 AM Wee wee German Lairdie: My little bit of research indicates that some Scots were disappointed and angry when the throne of the united kingdom of England and Scotland went to King William of Orange (Dutch?) and then to his cousins the Hanoverians (Georges I, II, and III) instead of to the house of Stuart (James) This is what precipitated the unsuccessful Jacobite rebellions. I'm sure there are others out there who know more. As far as anger songs go, how about the blues? Check out these two verses from "32-20 Blues" by Robert Johnson:
If I send for my baby, man, and she don't come (2x)
And if she gets unruly and says she don't want to (2x) (The 32-20 was a caliber of handgun) Such angry, misogynistic lyrics are commonplace in the blues, but I generally refrain from singing them myself. |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: judy Date: 01 Dec 97 - 11:22 AM Alison: Thanks for the info. Point well taken Rastrelnikov, Making negative remarks about the Germans again (my sincere apologies to all) is a very angry man who kills his wife and then commits suicide: "The Ballad of William Bloat" in the DT. But the joke is on him because because in the last verse we find out:
But the strangest turn to the whole concern |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: Jaxon Date: 01 Dec 97 - 04:47 PM In "William Bloat" the razor blade was British made and the rope was Irish linen. The first Irish commercial. The episode took place on the Shankill Road. I don't know where the German reference came from Jack Murray |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: Bill D Date: 01 Dec 97 - 09:27 PM in fact, in the version I sing, it even states "the razor blade was Sheffield made..."...maybe the German line was just added when it was standard practice to be mad at the Germans |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: Frank in the swamps Date: 01 Dec 97 - 10:19 PM As to Jacobite songs, the Scots song that blasts them "Ye Jacobites By Name" is quite angry,and actually seems to work best SUNG angry. It's a strong political condemnation of those who would impose their will on a nation, in disregard of the law, and makes a much stronger staement, in m.h.o. than most of the beautiful, but fancifully romantic Jacobite songs. It's in the database. Frank. |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: Bruce O. Date: 01 Dec 97 - 10:43 PM |
Subject: Lyr Add: SWEET JOAN or CRAFTY MAID'S POLICY^^^ From: rastrelnikov Date: 01 Dec 97 - 11:51 PM I tried to post this last night but couldn't reconnect to Mudcat OH NO! Wow. I've just looked at Nell Flaherty's Drake. Wonderful. I hope I like the tune. Midi sounds so awful on my machine that it's difficult to tell so far. From last night... Everyone: That bit about bitter songs towards women was a non sequiter. ...except that for angry songs, I always think of a nameless Welch song I once heard on The Thistle and Shamrock (NPR) which was chilling, unintelligble to me, and sung by a woman. I think Follow Me Up to Carlow would also have that chilling, dangerous tone, even if you could not understand a word of English. (new thread) Thanks for all the suggestions so far. Sounds like LOTS of people can think of LOTS of angry tunes... Dani: Mean Talking Blues sounds like the sort of song I'm looking for. I'll have to give it a hunt, then see if anyone I know can sing it for me :) Alex: The text to Revolution is MARVELOUS. So is the site. The direct link to the song is: http://www.dickalba.demon.co.uk/songs/texts/revolutn.htm#songtext I think I might buy Live in Edinburgh. I have Handful of Dust on vinyl and have recently come to appreciate it. Kudos to Dick Gaughan. I'll have a look back at his site later. Bill D.: Wow. That Orangeman's song could certainly be chilling. I wonder why the Whiskey in the Jar chorus didn't die off as the song was passed along? Judy: Thanks for the translations added to the German Laddie song. (Reminds me of Banks of Sicily -- does one sing the better version, or does one sing the Clancy's version that people can understand...see new thread). I'm currious to know whether it is SUNG angrily though. For example, you mention Mrs. McGrath. I've only heard Pete Seeger sing it (Mr. This machine surrounds hatred and forces it to surrender), and his version is very far from spittin' angry. Leprechan: Re. taking the horse from between his legs. Here's one version, only a vague idea where it came from. It certainly never got angry. More triumphantly clever.
One Cold Morning |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: alison Date: 02 Dec 97 - 05:52 PM HI Paul Brady's "Nothing but the same old story" is an angry song he wrote about going off to find work in England in the 70's when to have an Irish accent meant that you were "nothing but a bunch of murderers." Good song. slainte alison |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca Date: 02 Dec 97 - 06:26 PM No, no, Stan Rogers' The House of Orange has nothing to do with the sentiments of the song posted above. Quite the opposite. It's on "From Fresh Water". Give it a listen.
"I took back my hand and I showed him the door And so on. I suspect the words are in the database. |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: judy Date: 03 Dec 97 - 05:03 PM As per whether the "Wee, Wee, German Lairdie" is sung angrily, I've only heard it done that one time on the "The Thistle and Shamrock" and it wasn't spitting mad. But as the people "sung angrily thread" mention it came across to me in the words. When I sing "Mrs. McGrath I only sound angry in one verse. Anger throughout a whole song is a bit monotonous and might turn off the listeners rather than attract them to the message. judy |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: Nonie Rider Date: 03 Dec 97 - 05:14 PM I agree wi' oor wee Timmy that Stan Roger's "The House of Orange" is a deeply moving song for peace; it's angry not with one side or the other, but with ANYONE who considers that old grudge to be worth the endless renewing of mutilation and murder and the teaching of children to hate. But it's a song of restrained anger, not rage. "I took back my hand and I showed him the door" is the action of a civilized man.
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Subject: RE: Anger songs From: alison Date: 03 Dec 97 - 06:58 PM sorry Tim, I stand corrected. I thought you were referring to the lyrics posted in this thread, and am very relieved that you weren't. Having now read the "House of Orange", ( yes it's in the database), I agree it's a good song. Nonie put it very well. Slainte Alison |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca Date: 03 Dec 97 - 09:35 PM The Pogues version of "And The Band Played Waltzing Matilda" is sung angrily. Most pseudo-Pogues bands who try that style just end up snarling it viciously. I think of it more as more of a weary song. Some songs have flashes of anger. Bruce Cockburn is always going on about something or other that annoys him, and I think he says god damn at one point. I've heard Garnett Rogers live, and he sounded pretty angry as he sang some of his songs, but I can't remember which ones. He was certainly loud enough. I can think of a few petulant songs, but I assume that temper tantrums do not fall into the righteous anger category. |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: Moira Cameron Date: 03 Dec 97 - 11:59 PM The song about the woman tricking the gentlyman out of his horse was sung by Frankie Armstrong on one of her albums. She called it "The Crafty Maid's Policy" |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: PJStreet Date: 04 Dec 97 - 02:30 PM Want a FUNNY angry song? This I heard performed in 1962 in London by a big singer named Red something. I think he wrote it: You're a five-foot flirt in the guise of an angel; You'd better 'ad leave Oi alone! The things you are doin', they really unnerves Oi, The thing that preserves Oi Is my jovi-al-i-ty... Though Oi've got trouble as thick as the stubble, 'Tis you that's the worst of it all. Get out of me track! If you want to come back, You can crawl, crawl, crawl. |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: Bruce O. Date: 04 Dec 97 - 03:04 PM Text of Frankie Armstrong's "Crafty Maid's Policy" is in DT. A broadside text of the 1st half of the 19th century is reprinted in Vol. II of Holloway and Black's 'Later English Broadside Ballads', #17. They point out traditional versions of the same tale in which a boy is the hero. |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: Bill D Date: 04 Dec 97 - 03:47 PM Five Foot Flirt is by Cyril Tawney..in the database..(it's getting so it safest to ASSUME a song is in the database...sometimes it isn't, but it saves a lot of time to look first..) |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: Jaxon Date: 04 Dec 97 - 04:24 PM Tommy Sands wrote "There Were Roses". There's no question he is angry about the sectarian strife in Northern Ireland. The last four lines, in particular, are intended to be sung angrily. Robbie O'Connell performs the original version of this song. Tommy had to change the names when the families of Isaac Scott and Sean McDonald objected to their names being used. Rise up Singing has the edited version. Jack Murray |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: Jerry Friedman Date: 04 Dec 97 - 11:04 PM Since this is one of those errors that spellcheckers don't catch--in "One Cold Morning" it's "I'd FAIN have my present." Fain meaning eager(ly), not feign meaning pretend, sham. |
Subject: Lyr Add: FAREWELL TO CANADA From: Moira Cameron Date: 07 Dec 97 - 05:21 PM Some of Robbie Burn's stuff is pretty angry sounding; Parcel of Rogues, for example. I was inspired by that song as a Canadian to write a Canadian version of it. At the risk of offending some of my American folkie counterparts, I'll share it with you. (It is definitely an anger song from a Canadian perspective, written during the time when our Prime Minister was Brian Mulroney.) FAREWELL TO CANADA
Copyright 1991 by Moira Cameron
What has happened to our Canadian pride
I never would have thought I would see the day |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: chico Date: 16 Oct 05 - 03:54 AM
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Subject: RE: Anger songs From: GUEST Date: 11 Nov 07 - 12:22 PM |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: GUEST,Greg Date: 11 Nov 07 - 01:27 PM |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: Bert Date: 11 Nov 07 - 02:31 PM Guess I missed this thread first time around. John Denver's "You say that the battle is over" can be sung very angrily. this one of mine starts off angrily. |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: oldhippie Date: 11 Nov 07 - 07:27 PM Wasn't "You Say The Battle Is Over" David Mallett? |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: topical tom Date: 11 Nov 07 - 10:50 PM There is pride, bitterness and anger in "The PatriotPATRIOT GAME (Dominic Behan) Come all ye young rebels, and list while I sing, For the love of one's country is a terrible thing. It banishes fear with the speed of a flame, And it makes us all part of the patriot game. My name is O'Hanlon, and I've just turned sixteen. My home is in Monaghan, and where I was weaned I learned all my life cruel England's to blame, So now I am part of the patriot game. This Ireland of ours has too long been half free. Six counties lie under John Bull's tyranny. But still De Valera is greatly to blame For shirking his part in the Patriot game. They told me how Connolly was shot in his chair, His wounds from the fighting all bloody and bare. His fine body twisted, all battered and lame They soon made me part of the patriot game. It's nearly two years since I wandered away With the local battalion of the bold IRA, For I read of our heroes, and wanted the same To play out my part in the patriot game. And now as I lie here, my body all holes I think of those traitors who bargained in souls And I wish that my rifle had given the same To those Quislings who sold out the patriot game. Game": |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: freightdawg Date: 11 Nov 07 - 11:01 PM Dave Mallett did indeed write, "You Say That the Battle Is Over", but Denver performed it with great passion. I would not say that he sang it angrily, but with a great sadness. Great song. Freightdawg |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: A Wandering Minstrel Date: 12 Nov 07 - 08:02 AM The Blackleg Miner always gets sung with a certain amount of venom where I come from |
Subject: RE: Anger songs From: GUEST,Volgodon Date: 12 Nov 07 - 08:29 AM Svyshenaya voina (holy war) the great WW2 Russian anthem. |
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