BS: Wheelchair info

Subject: BS: Wheelchair info
From: gnu
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 01:50 PM

From wheelchair.ca :

"Lightweight wheelchairs are the next generation of wheelchair beyond the standard wheelchair and are by far the most common wheelchair in use these days. They are widely used in nursing homes and for older adults because of their weight which is usually 30 to 40 pounds."

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 01:52 PM

Maybe they (the older adults) have been dieting?

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 02:07 PM

I have never known of anybody being only 2 to 3 stone. Sounds like the homes aren't feeding them.

However, the wheel chairs might be light, but how comfortable are they?

Having seen my mother in a nursing home for the last eight years, being left in a wheelchair for far too long, I am concerned at this development. Its all very well if you can walk but need the weelchair for short spells, but hours on end is just not acceptable.

I fought to get my mother a comfortable wheelchair, but it was like banging your head against a brickwall.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 02:16 PM

I found that having the most narrow wheel chair is the one for me.
Mine is called Sillouet. Narrow plus light is best.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: gnu
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 02:55 PM

Oh my! Canuck prices are about 2.5 times USA.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 03:36 PM

Right, Donuel. Narrow, light. I'm not familiar with the Sillouet.

I contracted polio at the age of two and walked with the aid of a leg brace and aluminum forearm crutches most of my life. In 1990, my shoulders gave out (every step was a push-up, and the human shoulder is not built for that sort of thing) and I had to take to a wheelchair.

I have a Quickie 2 Ultralight folding wheelchair that looks almost exactly like THIS. In addition to being foldable (for stowing in an automobile trunk or back seat), mine also has removable wheels. The wheels in the illustration are wire-spoke, but my wheels have six very strong plastic spokes, making the chair even lighter. I also have adjustable leg-rests on mine. And complete with a ROHO air-flotation cushion, it's quite comfortable. The seat on mine is 16" wide, but you can get them various widths, in two-inch increments. I weigh about 140 lbs. The chair weighs about 35 lbs.

Quickie also makes even lighter wheelchairs, generally for sports, such as wheelchair basketball. I have a friend (actually one of my wife's many cousins—auto accident, spinal cord injury) who has one. It looks like THIS. Note the camber on the wheels (fast cornering without tipping over), and the lack of armrests. So Chuck's is even lighter than mine.

I also have one of THESE, a Pride "Jazzy" 1122, but with a seat different from the illustration. The seat looks more like that of my Quickie 2, but the "power base" is the same. Power chair, mid-wheel drive, very maneuverable (you can sit in one spot and spin). You steer it with a joystick, and with the speed knob cranked all the way up, it can move along at about 6.5 mph (good jogging speed), and it will go 25 miles on one overnight charge (two 12 volt deep-cycle batteries). Don't know how much it weighs, but I think it's about 85 lbs. I can practically climb trees in the thing.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: CapriUni
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 03:42 PM

Gnu -- is there a particular piece of information you're looking for? Or are you just sharing a goofy bit of clumsy writing?

As a life-long wheelchair-user, I can say lighter is definitely better, and 30-40 pounds is heavy by modern standards, if you're talking about manual chairs. Motorized chairs are, naturally, quite a bit heavier.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: maeve
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 03:44 PM

Great information, Don.

maeve

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: gnu
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 03:59 PM

CU.... started as the clumsy writing... has turned into some great information that I can use in finding the right one for my mum.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 04:20 PM

Gotta watch those pronouns when you're searching for the right chair.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: CapriUni
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 04:22 PM

Ah, clumsy writing is always fun. Clumsy chairs, not so much ;-)

I meant to post the following in reply to -- and as a continuation of -- Don's post, above (but I think I clicked a wrong button prematurely, or something):

I, myself, have a Quickie GPS Titanium for my manual chair (though I use my motorized -- also a Quickie -- most of the time). According to the manual, it weighs in between 22.5 pounds and 20.5 pounds, depending on whether you get the wire spoke wheels or the performance sports wheels.

A good wheelchair, that matches the user's needs, is about as "confining" as a really sexy sports car, or powerful racing truck: it get give you the ability to get to places you'd never reach, otherwise.

Unfortunately, as Villian has noticed, many institutions operate on the "One size fits nobody" system. But it doesn't have to be that way.

As much as I disagreed with Dick Cheney's politics, while he was in office, it still saddened me a bit to see him put in one of the hospital clunker models* for the Inauguration ceremony, especially with his wife delegated to "caretaker" duty, pushing him around. He at least deserved to be served by one of the honor guard, so that his wife could walk beside him, with some dignity.

*Then again, it would have been awkward, I suppose, if a member of the secret service had been overheard to say: "Can we get a Quickie for the Vice-President?" >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 04:41 PM

The most advanced chair from the inventor of the Segway walks up and down stairs and stands up so you are on eye level with everyone else.

It is some what more affordable than your own private stem cell lab.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 04:49 PM

The Quickies can get a bit pricy, but some health insurance companies will kick in a bit for "durable health equipment." You'll probably need to get a doctor's prescription for it though.

I definitely recommend the ROHO cushion.

Sitting for a long period of time in a wheelchair (or any kind of chair, for that matter, especially if you can't get up and move around) can produce one very sore bum. And worse than that, you run the risk of developing a pressure sore, and if that happens, you have real trouble!

The ROHO cushions list for about $400, but you can get them for less. My doctor prescribed mine for me, so all I had to ante up was a nominal co-pay. Mine is a "High Profile Quadro Select," about 4 inches high and it fits the seat of the wheelchair snugly (no sliding around). It consists of a whole bunch of inflatable "cells" covered with a black nylon cover. It includes a small pump for inflating and an instruction manual.

A very good investment. My butt is a lot happier than it used to be. I have one for my power chair also.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 05:18 PM

Blimey Don, I could have done with knowing about the High Profile Quadro Select for my mother. Not necessary now.
However, I might invest in one, even though I don't use a wheelchair.
I have lots of problems with my legs and consequently spend a lot of time at home sitting. I can't walk that far without getting in a lot of pain. However I am always uncomfortable sitting (bum wise)
Les

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 05:23 PM

Les, you might try checking with some local wheelchair dealer or orthopedic supply store to see if they have them, then go in and give them a try. Sounds like it might be just the thing.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 06:04 PM

Don F

also have one of THESE, a Pride "Jazzy" 1122, ... Don't know how much it weighs, but I think it's about 85 lbs.

We have "inherited" a Pride "Jazzy 1120" that a relative needed to get rid of and couldn't find an "agency" that would accept it as a donation. My guess would be that it's closer to 185 lbs, and quite likely a bit more. The batteries alone look like around 50 lb.

Lin started to need a "mobility assist" after a stroke in 2000, and since we couldn't get an immediate¹ "disability" approval I bought one at retail from Pep Boys. Pep boys went out of business here, and stopped carrying the no-name 3-wheelers elsewhere, so when Lin tried to find out whether it would float after a rainstorm it died and was non-repairable. (Although I think I've found a source for parts, when I get to it.)

The replacement was an "obsolete but new" 3 wheel Invacare Zoom 220, about the same size as the first one. Both of these list as "travel scooters," and "disassemble" for transport, down to the power section at about 35 lb and three or four smaller pieces.

Total on either of the scooters is 105 to 115 pounds (empty - of course). Neither of these two has a "rated load capacity" really adequate for Lin, her dulcimer, her pot of tea, and a music book or two, and the tiny wheels are almost useless in grass or where there are garden hoses and extension cords lying about at the festivals.

My guess would have been that the Pride "Jazzy 2200" is "more than twice" the weight of either of the scooters, although I haven't found specs on it or tried to weigh it (It's apparently an obsolete model.)

I will agree that it's got "oomph out the a**" though. I tried to get Lin to "ride it onto the trailer" to bring it home and she moved several massive pieces of furniture - with much screaming and hollerin' - before fleeing and leaving the loading to the rest of us.

(Others, with more nerve, did only marginally better at driving the thing, but I think it's manageable once one gets the hang of the speed control. But NOTHING gets in its way - and survives - which might partially explain why the care homes and veterans orgs didn't want it.)

¹ Formal application for Medicare Disability, begun in 2002, is still "in process," with an expected "few months" remaining before we may be able to get anything resolved.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: EBarnacle
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 06:34 PM

The Visiting Nurses' Association rummage sale has a motorized wheel chair with bad batteries. Other than the batteries, it seems to be OK but cannot really be checked out. the thing weighs a ton and will probably be disposed of as scrap. If someone in this area wants it and can arrange pickup, I will be happy to grunt and groan and get the monster into my van. It appears to be about 10 years old and has no visible corrosion or major wear.

I don't know the brand or model number as I have just seen this thread. I would rather it went to a good home than to the recycling center.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 06:37 PM

Good lord, John, that kind of wait is unconscionable. Seven years? Idiots!

I sit a lot and have nerves which run very close to the surface in my bum and down my legs. I think I'd like to take a look at one of those ROHO cushions, too. Looks like they might be good for relieving sciatica,etc. My office chair cushions never last for very long.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: CapriUni
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 06:42 PM

It's a shame that really good, pressure-reducing seat cushions are considered a "medical equipment" item, which allows the price to be jacked up exponentionally, especially in modern times when most people have sedentary jobs.

As Montaigne once wrote (but in French): "And on the highest throne in the world, we still sit only on our own bottom."

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 06:58 PM

Yeah, you're more than likely right about the weight of the Jazzy, John. I've never had occasion to weigh the thing. Someone (salesman) told me it was 85 pounds, but maybe he forgot the "1" in front of the "85."

It takes a while to get used to driving it. I've found that for maneuvering indoors and in fairly tight spaces, I have to set the speed knob at about 1/4 to 1/3, otherwise I tend to knock over furniture and crash through walls. When outdoors and moving at flank speed, I have it at about 3/4. Much higher than that, the steering seems to get unstable. When going either up or down grades, I have to back it off some or it starts to "hunt"; angle away from a straight line, and when I try to straighten it up, I wind up inadvertently overcompensating. Very touch!

After an afternoon of terrorizing the neighborhood, when I return and park it in the hall of our apartment, I have to back in over an inch and a half door sill. I have to set the speed knob at about half, then when I pop over the sill, get off the joy stick real fast or I'm liable to end up in the kitchen.

As I say, it took some getting used to, but it sure expanded my range of activity. Seattle's buses have wheelchair lifts, so I can go pretty much wherever I want.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: gnu
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 07:35 PM

Bus lifts... that is great! I dunno if we have them here. Never occured to me to check.

About 30 years ago, I worked for a city government. I designed an intersection that included ramps for wheelchairs. Extra money... and there were no others on Main Street.

Long story short. When I was asked about the extra cost, and the man said he had never seen any wheelchairs on Main Street to justify the expenditure, I replied, "Of cousre not, but you will, after we put the ramps in all of the intersections."

Hard to imagine, even 30 years ago, that anyone could be so stunned.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: Art Thieme
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 07:39 PM

I am on my second Invacare 9000-XT lightweight wheelchair. The first one I got when an inpatient at Mayo Clinic in 1997. Over the years from then to now, I actually wore all of the tire material down enough to allow the metal to begin tearing up our floor---to the dismay of this buildings management. I picked up another 9000 XT about 6 months ago and it serves me nicely. Being unable to drive now, this Invacare chair is light enough for the cab drivers of our town to put easily into their trunk. Also, I'm a big guy and I squeeze into it snugly which affords real nice back support.

I heartily recommend the Invacare 9000-XT.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: CapriUni
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 07:50 PM

Don: Yeah, when I was getting ready to go to college, and thus acquiring my first motor chair to enable me to get around campus, the steering / control was the trickiest bit to get a handle on. As a matter of fact, my mother ordered me to "Take that thing outside!" because I was on the verge of wrecking the furniture.

...So I terrorized the goats for about a week. After a while, though, I got the feel for the joystick control, and it's almost second nature, now. ...But I still have trouble keeping straight when I back up, twenty-something years later.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 07:57 PM

Hey Villain (he said in friendship)

I would like a quadro too. It looks like more fun than a Segway.
I've spent a couple years on crutches due to broken ankles and have been using a single crutch at home until another years worth of scar tissue strengthens foot ligaments. Without a crutch tis month I walk like Mr. Crabs at the restaurant The Crusty Crab.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 09:17 PM

My goodness! My new WASHER weighs 165 pounds. These chairs are not made for true mobility, are they? (This link is for the photo. Though the story is old, these guys are always very popular on campus).

A friend of mine down here gradually gained weight as his arthritis got bad, and he needed a hip replacement. As his income went down from his inability to work (he was a great hairdresser, but they are on their feet all day) getting a chair seemed impossible through any agencies but mobility was difficult. He and his partner lucked out and got one of the three-wheeled scooters via a friend's deceased parent and he was set. But when the batteries began to give out, they had difficulty again. At the shop that sells the scooters the price was prohibitive, so they left. The clerk who had been serving them walked out after them, and in the parking lot told them about a battery place where they could get the same ones for less than half price. I wonder how many times a day he went out for a "smoke," just to pass along that information away from management ears?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 10:15 PM

I believe I told this story on another thread, but I can't find it again so I can link to it.

Every three years or so, a battery-powered wheelchair or scooter should usually have its batteries replaced. Before I got the Jazzy, I had an Invacare Arrow XT, and when it came time to change batteries, I called Care Medical (where I got the chair) and asked them how much a pair would cost. About $250. That struck me as kind of high for a pair of batteries, so I called my nephew, who worked in a battery store (Les Schwab, or someplace like that). He came over and looked at the batteries. He said they were actually standard marine batteries, the kind you might put into your Chris-Craft. 12-volt deep-cycle. He could get me a pair for less than $50. And he did, and installed them for me.

I once had a chance to ask a technician from Care Medical who was fixing something else on the chair, why medical equipment and accessories for medical equipment (like batteries) cost so bloody much. After all, if you take a good look at a wheelchair, it isn't much more complicated to make than a bicycle.

He aswered, "Because the medical equipment companies know that the patient usually doesn't have to pay for it. It's paid for by some insurance company. So they jack the prices." "Why the heck don't the insurance companies do something about it?" "Because they're just a bunch of clueless bureaucrat types. And by the way, you didn't hear any of this from me!"

"What," I asked, "if the patient doesn't have medical insurance?"

"Well," said the tech, "he's just shit outta luck. . . ."

I had heard that the Jazzy was a real bitch to change batteries on (getting the cowling off and all that), so the first time I needed batteries replaced, I called Care Medical. They sent a technician over and as he changed them, I watched carefully, and noted that it was nowhere near as difficult as I'd heard. Next time I would call my nephew, Tim. Same deal. Standard marine-type batteries.

Care Medical nicked my insurance company over $500! And I had to come up with a $97 co-pay!

Why isn't there rioting in the streets!??

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 03:57 AM

A recent web news article, I believe at MSNBC, reported on waiting times for disability payments and on the Medicare coverage for "disability aids."

On average, something like 80% of claims are denied at first submittal, regarless of merit. No percentage was given for how many appeal, but of those who do appeal slightly more than 60% are successful.

It takes, currently, about 9 months to do all the examinations and paper work to get to a "first refusal" which is mandatory before one can appeal. It takes a second round of examinations and paperwork to put together an appeal - i.e. a second nine months. After that, the average time before the court appearance, which is mandatory to "determine whether the appeal is allowed" is now just about 18 months after all the examinations and paperwork for the "appeal round" are completed, in most states. After an appeal is approved it often takes another three or more months before the "first payment" is received. In theory, payments eventually are supposed to be retroactive to the "date of impairment" but "the agency" gets to decide when that was in any case.

For most, the minimum time from first filing to an "award" currently is at least three years. (I guess we're just a little above average?)

The same article mentioned, as a side bit, that currently (in most places) the "orthopedic seat cushions" for wheelchairs are not covered by Medicare until after the user has been hospitalized for surgical treatment of the "bed sores." And the article noted that the treatment averages $22,000 per patient - but it "defers" paying the $500 for the cushion. (Since Medicare is administered by the individual states, and each state can write its own rules, there may be lots of variances and deviations in what's covered, so it doesn't hurt to ask in your own area.)

The first scooter I got for Lin was specifically not a medical device. It was mixed in with the "off road toys" and the list price was just over $600. The identical scooter can still be purchased (mail order only) from Walgreens Pharmaceuticals, SAMS Club, or a couple of other places; but all indications are that there still is no service readily available. List price from Walgreens, the last time I looked was just over $800. The closest ones (in design and features) that I've found from "medical suppliers" list at around $1700 to $2300.

The second one we got - on an emergency basis from a local Winfield KS supplier while we were at the WVA Festival had, IIRC, an original list price of about $1700, but they let us have it for $800 because it was a "discontinued model" and we agreed (sort of) not to ask them to service it.

Because both of these were "travel scooters" that can be disassembled and dumped into the trunk in pieces, they both did come with "gel-cell" batteries, which are somewhat different and significantly more expensive than "ordinary deep discharge marine" batteries; but the prices for replacements from the scooter dealers still are approximately 2.3 times the "list price" from more ordinary battery distributors - for the identical battery.

(But if you really want to see "mark up" price a replacement battery for a $10 cell phone.)

A true "gel-cell" can be turned upside down without leaking. For smaller scooters, motorcycle batteries may have "leak resistant" designs, but you do need to look at the battery design, the application, and the attendant likelihood of "tipover accidents." (Both of our little scooters require you to turn the battery package upside down to get it open to replace the batteries. Not a good idea if it leaks even a little bit.)

Most motorized wheelchairs are much heavier than the little travel scooters, with larger wheels and a "more stable platform," and can be expected to stay upright unless ridden by a really wild person; and with care some marine batteries likely could be used fairly safely, although not all "marine batteries" are reliably as spill resistant as I would prefer for this application. In some cases, an automotive "service free" ("sealed cells" with zero water maintenance - in theory) might be better than most "marine" types.

In any case, in most places you can find a "battery dealer" for a much better deal than you'll get from the med houses. The "medical markup" (they say) is because they make it so you don't have to "worry" about getting things right.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: Rasener
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 05:05 AM

Thanks Don.
This is a very good thread, even for people that are not using wheelchairs.
Les

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: gnu
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 05:26 AM

Indeed it is... thanks to all.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: Mr Happy
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 06:42 AM

It continually amazes me that building authorities, vehicle manufacturers, etc, still make everything for so called 'able-bodied' people.

How is it that planners, designers & so on seem so short sighted that they just can't see that if they designed stuff fit for everyone's use/ access, then everyday life would be so much simpler for all.

After all, at some stage in everyone's lives we'll need ramps, lifts, grab handles, w/chairs etc

Why make 'special needs' stuff at all, & also hike up the price for imagined 'low demand' users??

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: gnu
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 10:28 AM

I used to design houses as a sideline. My designs were top-of-the-line because they included things like properly built basement drainage systems and sumps (never saw a sump I liked), 3' eaves and properly placed windows, attention to snow removal and security, many others... AND "impared mobility".

Unreal how many people with a million dollars were shocked, and some actually offended (even my own aunt) when I explained the accomodations I made for a future vertical lift between floors. I am not making this up!

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: gnu
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 10:34 AM

Oh! Yeah! Even worse, I worked for a government department and was told by senior management (accountants) NOT to make accomodations for mobility in certain buildings. Two such buildings were a warehouse and a large vehicle and equipment maintenance garage. Their excuse was that the building code did not apply to buildings on crown land and money was tight.

It got done properly but I didn't have any friends on the fourth floor.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: maeve
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 10:43 AM

Good for you, gnu. It's far better to design it correctly than to have to make poor adjustments later.

I'm finding this thread to be very useful. Thanks to all.

maeve

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 10:59 AM

OK so it looks like there are some knowledgeable people here regards mobility and stuff.

Little bit of thread drift coming up for some much needed advice.

I am into year 3 of Rheumatoid Arthritis which did not respond to the NHS approved treatment.

It affects feet, knees and hips and my arms and wrists are made weak from osteo arthritis in neck. So crutches are out of the question. I cannot get a scooter as we have no place to house it (1st floor flat).

I feel uncomfortable asking for Blue Badge (in UK, this is equivalent to disabled sticker fo car). But some times (more often now then ever) I literally have to pull myself up the stairs after day of work. My mobility is getting more and more restricted.

I don't want to go through the embarrassment of applying for Blue Badge only to be interviewed/tested on a day when I feel pretty good. Also as I don't drive, my partner does it all, I think I would be turned down as not having enough need.

Has anyone had to jump through hoops regards getting assistance or disability badge? Was it absolutely horrible experience?

I am a bit gun shy due to bad NHS experiences regards my treatment and reading horror stories aoubt people being denied blue badge who clearly had need.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: Rasener
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 11:32 AM

I don't have a blue badge, but suffer badly with arthritus in the knees and feet and have bad circulation in my legs.
My big gripe, is that car park spaces are always too narrow. I am not allowed to park in disability parking bays. However the worst nightmare is when people park so close to your car, that you can't get into the car from the drivers side. That didn't used to be a problem, when I was able to climb in the passenger side and crawl over into the drivers seat. Unfortunately I am not able to do that anymore. So when it happens, I have to wait until the person who parked next to me comes back to their car.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 11:42 AM

There's little hope for the parking lot problem. In some places, parking spaces are so limited that they shave them down to the minimum in order to get as many spots in a lot as possible. I do hardware shopping at two places....Home Depot, a BIG store chain, and a small local store. Home Depot's spaces must be a foot or more wider than the tiny little spots at the other one.

Handicapped spaces are about the only way to cope, Villan....maybe you should consider applying, and just not use it when spaces are wide enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: Rasener
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 11:51 AM

When my dad passed away, my mom was left on her own in the nursing home. She was literally blind, couldn't walk and was totally reliant on the staff from the home.
I wanted to get her a double table that she could pull over her chair when she was seated, as the staff brougt drinks etc and put them on a table too far from her to see.
Anyway, I did some research on the sort of table she needed, but couldn't find anything that I could get off the shelf.

I stumbled across a chariity called Remap, and got in touch with them for advice. They said, "if you can't find anything suitable, we would be willing to look at your requirements and if you are correct, we would be willing to make it for you FOC". I sent the info in and they made it and installed it for my mother. They are a charity and do lots of bespoke things for people in such needs. However, if you can buy what you are looking for from a shop or dealer etc, they do not help.

Just thought it might help, if somebody needs something special to help them, have a better quality of life. Obviously they are UK based.

http://www.remap.org.uk/

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 01:41 PM

February of 2000, while in the bathroom, transferring from the potty to the wheelchair, I took a tumble and broke my left leg (boy, did I need that!). It was a dandy break of the left femur, and I wound up in the hospital for three weeks and came home with a titanium rod and four screws in my thigh bone (might be fun going through the metal detector at airports).

While there, I complained to Nurse Rachet about a very sore spot on my bum. She took a look, told me it was just a little irritation, and to stop being such a sissy. A few days later (in another room with other nurses), I told Nurse Jane about what Nurse Rachet had said, and asked her to take a look. She did, and had a fit. She called in a dermatologist.

(Among medical personnel, there are vultures and there are angels. But that's another story!)

The dermatologist told me that I was well on my way to a pressure sore (class 2) and took the necessary steps to handle it. Application of some kind of "artificial skin" bandage, having someone roll me over every two hours, all kinds of fun! When the damaged was well on the mend, the dermatologist told me, "Congratulations. You now qualify for a ROHO cushion, paid for by your insurance company," then put in an order for one to fit my wheelchair, and did the paperwork for the insurance company.

Medicare's policy on "orthopedic seat cushions" is really stupid! It would be a helluva lot less expensive and a one helluva lot less of a hassle for the patient to prevent pressure sores in the first place, which a ROHO "air floatation" cushion can do.

The insurance company, since they paid for the Jazzy, plus a ROHO cushion to fit (about $7000 altogether), will no longer pay for anything on my manual chair (apparently only one wheelchair, of any kind, to a customer, no matter what the needs might be). The Quickie seems to be holding up pretty well, but I have had it for about 15 years. My wife's cousin, Chuck, said that a wheelchair is usually good for about 5 years, but then he uses one pretty hard.

The first wheelchair I bought (in 1990), I got from a place that sold used wheelchairs and other used orthopedic equipment. It cost me $350 and was perfectly serviceable until an airline insisted on putting it into the baggage hold, and when I got it back, it was all bent to hell. The airline paid for a rental chair to use on my trip, then paid to have my chair repaired. I used the money as partial payment for the Quickie.

I do have Medicare, but I use them as a secondary. My wife's insurance (city employee – librarian) is much better, but even they can be real stinkers and need to be leaned on heavily sometimes.

Don Firth

P. S. I have some real choice comments about matters of accessibility, but this is enough for now. I'll be back later.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 05:01 PM

On a recent trip for a medical exam, we found an excellent "handicap door" with electric door. All the halls were nice and level, and there was a good roomy elevator.

Not so nice features:

1. The handicapped parking was all in a back lot, with no marking at the front of the lot to tell you where it was.

2. The closest parking space to the handicap entrance was more than 150 feet out.

3. Once inside, there was a 120 foot hallway with no indication of what was at the other end. At the end of that hallway there was (again) only one choice - a second 120 foot hallway with nothing to indicate where you were or where you were going. (150+120+120 = 390 ft)

4. There was a lobby at the end of the second hallway, with an elevator; but the only "building directory" was in a glass covered well about 10 inches deep, with the glass above the level that a wheel chair occupant could see over to read anything on the directory.

(The lobby at the elevator was the only place in the building outside of the offices themselves, with a place for anyone to sit down to rest.)

5. At the upper floor, on exiting the elevator, there were no markings to indicate which direction the offfice numbers ran, so "one of us" had to walk about 40 feet down to check a couple of door numbers to find which way to go.

6. From elevator to the office we needed was another 120 feet. (390+120 = 510 ft) [It took us almost a half hour to make it from the parking lot to this point.]

7. After filling out paper work, Lin asked for a restroom and was direct to one about 70 feet down the hall - which she found to be not compatible with her handicaps, so she had to return to ask for a different one - which was 240 feet down at the other end of the hall. (510+70+70+240+240 = 1130 ft)

8. The examination took about an hour, after which we returned to the vehicle (1130+120+120+120+150 = 1640 feet)

[Note that since I was not permitted to observe the actual examination, and nearly always have a yo-yo on the belt, I was able to make a slow trip back down to measure paving blocks and floor squares, which I then counted up to fairly accurately assess these distances. These distances are not just guesses.]

Both Lin and I have our individual handicap parking tags, each based on inability to walk for more than 1 or 2 hundred feet (at anything like a normal pace) without resting.

(Tags for parking here are pretty much "on request" if any licensed physician writes a "prescription" for one. They don't qualify one to receive medical or financial aid.)

Unlike many buildings, the wheel chair access was excellent. The designers did, however, make a few assumptions:

a. All handicapped persons are in wheel chairs.

b. All handicapped persons have an attendant to push the wheel chair (or have a powered chair).

c. All handicapped persons have an attendant who can stand up to look down into the gorgeous box frame that hides the single lovely "directory" - or have the peculiar gift of "always knowing where they're supposed to be go(?)"

I did note that the only other entrance, up front, had doors so heavy that I had difficulty getting one half way open (it was also windy). That entrance also presented a staircase down to the "sunken lobby" that would have been extremely difficult for Lin. She probably could have made it down to the elevators, but after the other walking would have had a seriously painful time getting back up them.

It appears that the building designers may have tried to do right; But something like "day late and dollar short" seems an appropriate thought. In our case, merely having a place to sit down and rest at least every hundred feet or so would have made a tremendous difference.

(Even a warning when we called to confirm the appointment would have permitted us to bring Lin's scooter. The exam was in support of Lin's application for disability benefits, so it would seem appropriate that they'd think about it? ... ... or maybe not.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: Rasener
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 05:28 PM

That is disgraceful John

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 05:41 PM

I've never understood why ramps and suchlike aren't universal, given that everybody is in a chair or pushing a chair at some stage of their life.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 05:42 PM

In the UK you have to get a letter from your GP and apply to the local authority (in my case Essex County Council) for a blue badge.   They will send someone (probably a grumpy disenfranchised - not quite social worker) to do an assessment of your need if you pass the first part of application process (I understand many are never let know they did not pass).
I have read that the councils are loathe to issue the blue badges and that even obviously needy persons are put through embarrasing interrogation like interviews and then made to walk for certain distance to prove need.
With RA I never know how I will be feeling from one minute to the next. Today I was able to walk to my GP office (600 yards) twice with only minimal discomfort.
Other days I can barely move from bedroom to bathroom without leaning on a little step stool I use as a walker/zimmer frame.

The UK does a lot of lip service on the "accessiblity for everyone" theme, especially when it comes to Councils forcing businesses and schools etc, to make accessibility a priority. But they don't go very far when it comes to providing the means to enable people with the disabilities to lead normal active lives.

John - I feel your pain! At Broomfield hospital you have to walk forever to get to physiotherapy and to the pain clinic. One of the GPs at my surgery has RA too and she doesn't use physio at Broomfield because it is too painful to get there.

Where is logic?

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 06:31 AM

VT -

I began noticing years ago that hospitals are one place where incredibly vast and mostly empty distances between points are pretty much the norm. Fortunately the hallways (at least in ones I've been into) are wide enough to avoid having to fight through crowds, but the distance between the friend's room, the coffee shop, the parking lot, the gift shop, etc., seems to have been laid out by a "chair rental concession" long since departed.

A second "feature" is that the floors are always hard and smooth, and kept "polished" for purposes of sanitation - making them prone to micro death-traps for people with walkers, canes, crutches, or (like me) with a stout quarterstaff. Even with a good soft rubber "crutch tip" them floors can be unexpectedly slick!!! - in isolated and invisible places.

In my case, the test of "how far can you walk" is unrealistic. Walking is something I can's say I do, but I can "dodder along" almost indefinitely. It's a matter of whether I can arrive on the same day as "normal people" making the same trip. If I exceed my "speed limit" my PAD trips quickly into extreme pain that prevents even standing in one place until the circulation clears, and it may take an hour or two to clear the pain and regain "muscle control."

With Lin, it's more a matter of pain with any sort of moving about. The test is really one of "how much pain can you stand." And for her, exceeding her limit often means two or three days in bed (sometimes needing help just to sit up) and loss of control of the stroke-affected leg which means she can't lift it enough to get on and off the ... in and out of bed without assistance.

Since, of course, I can't lift her, in the absence of a "confirmed disability" and appropriate assist devices, I have a hydraulic lift table (from Pep Boys auto supply, again) kept at hand to pick her up if she gets down on the floor. (I considered an engine hoist, but it was to heavy for me to move around, and the lift table was cheaper.)

Before I got the table, I used a step ladder and a cable hoist a couple of times, but she complained a lot about the straps hurting when I harnessed her up for that (or for anything else).

John

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 06:50 AM

I remember that UVA hospital had a shuttle service from parking garage to various places in the hospital. Simple little electric train golf cart thing they use in airports and theme parks.

This should be standard for all larger hospitals.

I can't use the little collasible walking sticks I bought for very long because my arms and wrists are so weak and pained. You are spot on about the floors too. Do you think hospitals are trying to drum up more business by making the place accident friendly for people with limited mobility?

That lift table thing sounds like a brilliant idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 09:32 AM

Virginia Tam -

One of the reasons I use a "staff" instead of a cane is that my arms give out pushing myself up but with a stick that's about armpit tall I can switch over to pulling myself up, and can go from one to t'other at will.

The armpit length is also about right to cup a hand over the top and use it as a crutch if you get really tired, or as a prop if you have to stand around for a while.

I use a light mop handle (about 7/8" diameter) for "dress up occasions" but a hoe handle (1-1/4") cut about to the top of the shoulder for "outdoor activities." You can still "rest on top" by just pointing the bottom out a little away from you, and the extra length is a help on uneven ground using it as a "balance staff." You do need a good crutch tip (rubber) on either.

The last time I went looking for a spare hoe handle, they wanted $23.00 for a handle, so I bought a "defective" hoe with a loose head for $3.95 and threw the head away.

Depending on what you feel you can do, you might try the "hiking poles" - like ski poles but with rubber tips - that some outing equipment places should have. You can get them in various lengths, or adjustable, and could do the push-pull switch with them; they usually have wrist straps so you don't have grip them when you're not leaning on 'em; and they're a lot lighter than even my "dress up" staff.

I find a common shopping cart about right to lean on, and if I can get about 15% of my weight on my elbows on the hand rail I can wander around Home Depot all night - or until the elbows give out. Unfortunately, they don't roll for sh*t in the grass, and they frown on people taking them home.

The lift table is pretty heavy, about 160 lb, and clumsy to move around since only the rear wheels swivel; but it does work and was only about $60. The "appropriate" medical lift would be around $1,800 (best price I've seen) but it would be a whole lot more versatile and easier to use.

I also have a "jib hoist" in the back of the pick-em-up that was $105 at the industrial shop, vs the $1,980 that the medical vehicle equipment guys quoted me for something similar. Unfortunately, the hoist is stronger than the truck, so I do need to reinforce the truck bed some more - if I get around to it and can get the dent out. (The scooter doesn't stress it, but the Hammond Organ she bought at a garage sale was pretty heavy.)

I can't carry a ramp long enough in the truck to drive the scooter up into the truck, and couldn't lift a "foldable" ramp long enough, but with the hoist I can just lift the scooter and swing it in, without taking it apart to "travel mode." And if I don't have to break the scooter down, I don't have to rewire the lights that are required every time Lin wants to scoot around the campground after dark.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 03:21 PM

Beat this one then...

In the headquarters of the PCS - the Union of the civil service, a Trade Union that prides itself on fighting for rights for all workers - the only door in has steps, albeit little ones. The only lift available for access to upper floors is in a narrow passageway that leaves no room to rotate a chair to reverse into the lift. The lift itself is not big enough to take a chair and more than one other person... it's certainly not big enough to rotate a chair in. The lift call button is so placed that the chair user has to reach forwards and up - if not actually partially raise themselves from the chair to call the lift. And the killer - to get to the disabled emergency access - i.e., the ramped fire escape - you have to get up a large step that is big for an able bodied person...!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: gnu
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 05:56 PM

Today at a local pharmacy... Cdn$245. Same chair... US$99 with free shipping at a webite in The States (within USA). I am a tad pissed off.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 07:25 PM

Liz, that reminds me of the rest rooms in the Cabrini Medical Tower here in Seattle. Inside, the booths are big enough for a wheelchair and there are plenty of judiciously place grab-bars. But—the doorway into the rest room is set in a niche about the size of a wheelchair, and it's at a right angle to the hall. In other words, you can roll your wheelchair into the niche, but then you have to make a right-angle turn. Simple geometry renders this impossible. Should you be able to beam yourself and your wheelchair into the rest room via a Star Trek transporter, once you're inside, it's very well set up!

I encountered another rest room once that was marked with the blue "wheelchair accessible" placard. Inside, it had three booths, one of which was quite large enough for a wheelchair and had grab-bars. But—instead of the door swinging outward, it swung in. Right up to the edge of the toilet, making it impossible to transfer from the wheelchair to the toilet and back again. The simple expedient of rehanging the door so it swung outward would have solved the problem.

I firmly advocate that before one is allowed to hang that blue placard anywhere, or put up a sign declaring something to be "wheelchair accessible," it should be a legal requirement that several people in wheelchairs (a variety of disabilities) be asked to do a run-through and submit their comments and opinions.

Don Firth

P. S. CLICKY.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 30 Apr 09 - 03:11 AM

I have not needed the wheel chair accessible toilet in the South Wing of Broomfield Hospital. But reportedly it is on the 3rd floor. I may be wrong but I think you can only use a specific lift (if you can find it) to get to the 3rd floor. This is what comes of adding onto existing buildings, you get multi layers and half layers that can only be accessed via peculiar routes. University of Essex in Colchester has the same issues regards accessiblity from parking to classrooms to the lecture theatre. You need a sat nav to find the wheel chair (no stepped) route to so many places on that campus. It has a serious case of back door entrance only for wheel chair users.

There is a big noise about the accessibilty of the Post office (now relocated to upper floor of WH Smith) in Chelmsford. Sometimes the lift isn't working. Even when it is, it is being used by staff to move goods between floors.

LTS

You should print off that list of inaccessibilities in very large font, one to a page on bright neon paper.
Then tack up in corresponding areas of the building you described.
Hey we could all do this and provide a list to building managers as well as the local newspapers and government representatives.
Let's be proactive about accessiblity.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheelchair info
From: gnu
Date: 30 Apr 09 - 03:10 PM

Great idea. And, take a pic(s) and send them to your institutes of the blind and physically disabled, all media, local city council...