BS: Who's next? Sinn Fein/IRA and its touts

Subject: RE: BS: Who's next? Sinn Fein/IRA and its touts
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 08:53 PM

The words of a soldier on the ground, not behind a desk.
"What they are saying is that the British army is doing a wonderful job sorting out a few criminals, a few terrorists, who are sort of making life terrible for the vast majority of peaceful law abiding citizens... But that is a total travesty of the truth. In Northern Ireland there is a war situation by any sensible definition of the term."
   

Brigadier Frank Kitson, one of Britain's most experienced counter-insurgency officers, served in Malaya, Kenya, Muscat, Oman, and Cyprus. In 1969, he was at Oxford writing, Low Intensity Operations, Subversion, Insurgency, Peace-keeping. All of his concepts were to be implemented in Ireland, including establishing coordinating committees of military, police and civil authorities; the formation of intelligence networks; psychological warfare units; the 'judicious promise of concessions' to temporarily appease the disaffected; setting up 'dirty tricks' and covert units; and using the law 'as a propaganda cover for the disposal of unwanted members of the public.'

According to Dillon and Lehane [Political Murder in N. Ireland], Kitson argued that the "Army is the creation, and governed by the prevalent morality, of the State to which it is accountable... If an individual soldier cannot stomach these actions, he can refuse to support it, but Kitson says, he must 'take the consequences... The spirit of [Kitson's] book would seem to countenance under certain circumstances a campaign of assassination by the British army undertaken by plain-clothes troops. There are few, if any, courses of action that Kitson would not have his special force take if they seemed likely to achieve the ultimate aim.'"

Subject: RE: BS: Who's next? Sinn Fein/IRA and its touts
From: Cobble
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 07:52 PM

Is this a case of history comes round as the wheel turns, pardon my jump back a few century's was not the inquisition murdering every other people that was'nt catholic. Wiping out races in South America and anyone who did'nt conform.

Read your history books as you sow so shall you reap.

                            Cobble

Subject: RE: BS: Who's next? Sinn Fein/IRA and its touts
From: GUEST,Airto
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 06:55 PM

Civil unrest was seized on by securocrats and paramilitaries and turned into their own dirty cloak and dagger war that the mainstream population on both sides neither supported nor wanted.

I think it mad to suppose Martin McGuinness was at any stage a paid informer.

It is quite obvious, however, that information was passed to the security forces at various times concerning Continuity and Real IRA operations. Omagh was a horrific exception, but many other attempted atrocities around this time were foiled by the security forces north and south of the border.

I think at least some of the information used to intercept these operations came from Provos loyal to Adams and McGuinness who were encouraged to infiltrate these organisations.

Subject: RE: BS: Who's next? Sinn Fein/IRA and its touts
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 07:14 PM

Airto
I agree it's possible. The dissidents are fewer in number than many think. More joined them fresh than from the ranks of the Provo's. A good few are guys who for one reason or another had old scores to settle with the Provo's and felt they were now in a strong position.

The Special Branch and D.M.S.U. are still in place with little or nothing to do, so they know everyone of them and probably have cameras trained on their homes.

Be careful entering another North of Ireland subject,you will end up getting tormented by mudcat's resident historian on Irish affairs !

Subject: RE: BS: Who's next? Sinn Fein/IRA and its touts
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 02:37 AM

Not if you mean me Sweeney.
I know nothing of Republican internal politics.
You do sometimes learn your Irish history from me though.
Remember when I told you how the IRA supported Hitler and the "cleansing fire" of his armies?

Your initial reply was,

"Regarding this line, Irishmen flocking to England and the North in their tens of thousands to fight for Britain.

Check those figures again and re write it. I have the figures, seeing you are so sure of them I will allow you to list them."

Later you had to say,
"Okay Keith large numbers of decent Irishmen fought for King and Country. My fathers two brothers were decorated pilots in that war, both so called Irishmen. Both not worthly of that title. I did not acknowledge them in life for it, and I have no wish to do so in death. Two embarrassments.

Your right again greg, we are the real bastards in all of this.
Should look into our history more."

Subject: RE: BS: Who's next? Sinn Fein/IRA and its touts
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 03:17 AM

link to above exchange.
It was only 3 weeks ago.
Worth a look if you missed it.

Subject: RE: BS: Who's next? Sinn Fein/IRA and its touts
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 03:48 AM

See folks he does know what he's talking about. A true authoritarian yet modest. Just recently a good friend of mine Doctor Eamon Phoenix said to me,

Who is this guy Keith? Christ he knows his stuff.

And proof of this can be found on his, Sorry yet another NI Thread.
This thread proved so popular with members that I feel at some stage it will either be made into a book or film.

Excellent work Keith.

Seamus

Subject: RE: BS: Who's next? Sinn Fein/IRA and its touts
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 04:38 AM

Would Divis and Keith take a long break, two of the biggest bores on the net, anyone meeting these two on holiday have my symathy.

Subject: RE: BS: Who's next? Sinn Fein/IRA and its touts
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 05:15 AM

Symathy fell in the last race on Saturday. Fancy it for Ascot next year. Doubt either of them would want your horse while on holiday !

Subject: RE: BS: Who's next? Sinn Fein/IRA and its touts
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 11:10 AM

Gerry Adams, meanwhile, is doubtless hoping no one comes up with the theory that McGuinness is only being exposed to cover for somebody higher up. (Anthony McIntyre, tongue in cheek of course, in: We Believe Freddie McGuinness)

Wolfgang