BS: Idealism

Subject: RE: BS: Idealism
From: Amos
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 07:36 PM

Sorry, Sham, but your humour was snippy.

She is saying something perfectly genuine about the nature of beauty in the moment of perception; if you don't understand it, just say so.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Idealism
From: John Hardly
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 07:56 PM

One can, I am told, make a good living as an idealist in Las Vegas.

Subject: RE: BS: Idealism
From: jpk
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 08:10 PM

idealism-it is nothing more than chasing a pipe dream,you can still achieve things but you will never make your goal.
being a cynic is not so bad,look for the good in people always,but be prepared for and ex pect the worsest.
when the first happens,you are pleasntly suprized.
when the later comes to pass you are not dissapointed.

Subject: RE: BS: Idealism
From: Amos
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 08:41 PM

That only works, IMO, until you realize the degree to which you generate your own events by belief.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Idealism
From: bill\sables
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 05:30 AM

(dick greenhaus here)
Seems to me that the existence of the Mudcat Cafe (and DigiTrad) are pretty good examples of idealism in action. But what do I know?

Subject: RE: BS: Idealism
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 05:55 AM

I heard something 10-15 years ago that stuck in my mind, and in many ways describes my own attitude also:

"The opposite of good is not bad - it's perfect"; meaning that in always striving for perfection we sometimes bypass or ignore the 'good enough' and can lose it all for the sake of an ideal. But also that in accepting 'good enough' we can lose the impetus that might take us to perfection.

What does that make me? - an idealist compromiser is what I call myself. I love open-eyed idealism; it's blind idealism that scares me.

Subject: RE: BS: Idealism
From: GUEST,wld
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 08:57 AM

something to be said for pragmatists too

the world isn't perfect - fair play to those people who lead political parties as well as those who snipe endlessly from the sidelines

Subject: RE: BS: Idealism
From: Amos
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 09:09 AM

In my opinion, idealism is not pragmatism's opponent, but its handmaiden.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Idealism
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 09:10 AM

If you're not imbued with a vision -- of anything -- you're not really alive. Could only be finding a really good cup of coffee....

To me, an ideal is a standard you strive for. Problem is that when you reach it you can stop there or move the goalpost.

If you stop, you've only achieved the minimum possible. I know of one 'catter who stopped for years and is RIGHT NOW moving forward again, going through hell to regain what was lost.

The standard has been moved, the ideal is changed.

Stopping means dying.

Subject: RE: BS: Idealism
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 10:47 AM

So - Rapaire the Shark! I agree though...

Subject: RE: BS: Idealism
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 11:58 AM

The target is always receding....

Subject: RE: BS: Idealism
From: Amos
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 12:31 PM

From any point in time, causative and responsible action involves a vision of what might be.

Right now I am wrecking a piece of my house that was very badly designed long ago by someone who has no sense of design.

If you were to walk in you'd think I was a psycho vandal to see the mess.

(Well, you might be right, but that is a different issue!)

But I know where it is going and have a good idea what it will look like when I get there. At that point, I will assess the scene and decide where the next major departure from the ideal is and try to do something about it.

That's life. Without a sense of what COULD be there is no reason to move in any direction.

What are you waiting for?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Idealism
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 01:21 PM

Idealism, however, can also be the ability to see perfection in what appears on the surface to be imperfect.