BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco

Subject: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 03:53 PM

I would love to see this man stopped from the nastiness he is producing and the people he is insulting..I don't care how funny he is...if I were CBC or MSNBC I would not particulary want him on any talk shows etc. and try to have to defend his performance. But he will have his share of apologists..oh he is brilliant and trying to make us see in some convoluted way how we really are ourselves etc. Oh spare me and spare the people who are hurt by people like him. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 04:27 PM

dear troll guest, gthyfc.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 05:10 PM

Donuel, go see if there's a website where you can get yourself a clue.

Mary, I think Borat (and Sacha Watsisface) is obnoxious and rude and not particularly funny, but I don't think rational people believe he means the ignorant stuff he says. Imus wasn't intenting to be a parody, as far as I know.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: GUEST,Jeff
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 05:39 PM

For the definitive take on the Imus situation refer to sportswriter Jason Whitlock @ the Kansas City Star or his blog on AOL.com. He's brilliant, audacious, balanced, funny and scathing all at the same time. Nobody gets off scott free from his perspective. I'm now an unabashed fan of his writing. Heard him interviewed on the Jim Rome show today and sat agape at the relaxed skewering he gave all the parties involved. I'm sure, though I haven't checked myself, the interview will be available online @ jimrome.com. It's a good one, check it out.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 12:00 AM

Principle difference between Imus and Borat? You have to pay money for Borat. The supposition is that if you buy a movie ticket, rent a DVD, or pay for a subscription to a premium cable service, you are doing so with the knowledge that you may be exposed to things that you won't see or hear in over-the-air broadcasts. The fact that you are "paying admission" implies that you don't entirely disapprove or you wouldn't be paying to expose yourself to the content.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: dianavan
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 04:11 AM

mg - Did you see Borat?

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: mg
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 04:26 AM

I haven't seen the movie..I was watching for it here but I probably msised it. I have seen him many times on TV where I did not pay for the privilege and he was on again tonight on some repeat show. I think he is disgusting. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 04:27 AM

Jeri, "is obnoxious and rude and not particularly funny"

I can see why you think so

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: mg
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 04:55 AM

Google Borat and Romania and incest and see what he did to the people of a Romanian village where part of the film was made.

I think that the tipping point had not quite been reached when his nasty movie came out and every time you turned on the TV there he was. But I think things have tipped for the better and for the more decent and respectful and I hope that CBC is flooded with emails every time that awful man shows up on any talk shows etc. And talk about degrading to women (as well as to whole countries, Gypsies etc.).. there are great implications of incest, which indeed is a problem in some areas, but it is not a joke...mg

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 05:19 AM

I thought the Borat movie was okay - made me laugh.

Why the hell should these people be protected from seeing that the world is laughing at them - when it safely can. Pity he didn't go the Iran - that would have taken some of the wind out their puff.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 02:06 PM

I have no response whatsoever to that comment. It is not something my brain can process. Either we are decent or we are not...mg

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 02:35 PM

He knows full well that he has pl;aced his life in jeopardy for his art.

The number of famous politicians, great authors and religious leaders that have appeared on his cable show is astonishing.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 04:44 PM

" Either we are decent or we are not "

Decency can be overated. Borat made me laugh, and yes I did think it showed more of our own racism rather than racism on the part of the actor.

Everyone should decide for themselves what is appropriate. I don't need a committee to tell me what should be broadcast or shown in a theater or what I can see or read. You don't like it, move on.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 04:52 PM

Ban 'em all. Kill Borat. Hang all the Python team who did "Life of Brian" Anything that isn't decent and wholesome should be flushed down the pan. In fact, let George W run the world. It will be a much better place.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 05:01 PM

oh come on mg! I bet part of you yearns for a bit indecency, just like the rest of us.....

get down and mucky, its the life force!

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 06:10 PM

Borat is an entirely different situation than Imus. But let me give a critique of him and his "art" that has nothing to do with Imus--Imus is not parodist.

To me there has always been a similarity between Andy Kaufman and Sacha Baron Cohen (Borat, Ali G.). The difference between them is that Andy K. (who I adored) is that Andy K. would never step out of character as Cohen does (to give interviews). His (AK) put-ons were just that with no break to say---hey, I'm just kidding.   You had to figure it out for yourself.   From his craziness with wrestlers (that actually devolved into damage to himself) to "shtick" about being a no talent and then morphing into Elvis.

An intersting aside about him is that, while he was brilliant in Taxi he did it only for the money---as he said---hated the job. Never rehearsed and did most of his material on the fly. This got him no love from Jud Hirsch. The others seemed to have liked him.

Read his bio written by Bob Zmuda---Andy's sometime replacement as his alter ego--Tony Clifton---among other things.   

You will find out some pretty interesting things---including Michael Richards short fuse is not a new thing, his creation of characters that he had people believing were real.   Which brings us back to the begining re: Cohen and Kaufman. He never stepped out of character--he could talk to the press but not about his characters--they spoke as themselves at all times. You had to believe for a time there was a Tony Clifton (he coulda been a star but Im big in the tricounty area).

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 06:21 PM

An interesting aside to my earlier comments re: Andy Kaufman.   He was so good at what he did that when he died of cancer a lot of people honestly believed he was putting everyone on again.   

The musical group REM has a song for him---Man On The Moon


Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: dianavan
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 06:34 PM

Mary - The movie was so obviously fictional that nobody should take it personally. It focused mainly on America, anyway. The part about his 'hometown' was just a fictional background to enable Cohen to expose the racism and sexism of America by playing the part of a totally naive tourist from another land.

If the film had been a documentary, that would be another matter but give it a break, there is plenty of racism and sexism in film today. Why rant about this one film, especially if you've never seen it.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 06:49 PM

comedy spans a very wide range of concepts. I was rather surprised when Imus said "this is a comedy show"....I never felt his offbeat patter and strange interviews were comedy,(unlike Jon Stewart, for example) though there was some obvious attempts at light humor. I considered him a 'talk show specializing in sports and eccentric views of celebrities'...if that makes sense.

*IF* he had been clearly a comedy act, like Jay Leno's stand-up, which occasionally goes right up TO 'the line', I would have seen his stupid remark in a different light....and if he were a comedian, he could no doubt just move his venue. He got the ax because he was a commentator who went WAY beyond the bounds.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 10:32 PM

Read what he did to the people of that Romanian (Gypsy)village who were humiliated by him and want to assemble enough money to sue him. They just wanted money for electricity for their village or something and were led to believe they were being filmed for a documentary about the privations in their lives and this would lead to better infrastructure. It is absolutely horrible. Some of it was real and some of it was staged to make them seem even more poverty stricken and there were a number of very degrading elements to it.

You know, I'll say it again..we can either believe all people need to be treated decently and not made fun of or not. When we start making exceptions..these women can be called vile names but these go to college and play basketball so they are exempt from it...or we can make fun of people supposedly from the ...Stan countries even if it was filmed elsewhere but we can't make fun of this and that group..

it's not civil and it is not decent. It's playing some game of in group and out group and people would go crazy trying to track who it is OK to be abusive towards this week. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 11:52 PM

"To me there has always been a similarity between Andy Kaufman and Sacha Baron Cohen (Borat, Ali G.). The difference between them is that Andy K. (who I adored) is that Andy K. would never step out of character as Cohen does (to give interviews)."

That isn't exactly true.   Cohen stayed in character when he was promoting the film. He does give interviews now as himself, as he has done other movie parts as well. I think the problem with Andy Kaufman is that he was often afraid to step out of character.

I also think Kaufman was brilliant, and I agree with the analogy. I saw Kaufman once when he was in an awful Broadway play about wrestling. The production starred Debbie Harry, from the group Blondie, as a female wrestler, and Kaufman was a referee.   Before the show, Kaufman was walking through the audience (in character) checking ticket stubs and giving the audience a bit extra. It struck me as interesting that while most actors would have been sitting in their dressing rooms trying to get into part, Kaufman was already living it and going out of his way to connect with the audience.   The play was awful and closed within days.

As for the Romanian village, I find it very interesting that this poor village would have allowed him to film in the manner that he did. He paid these people a few dollars to bring to animals into their homes and act parts. If they felt that bringing animals into there homes for a documentary would help them get more money from the government, then perhaps there is an element of fraud to their motives?    I don't think he held a gun to their head to do this.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 01:27 AM

This is a load of cobblers from someone who has obviously never created anything in his (her) life.

He's a film maker. he used the the village as a location   like a songwriter uses a chord.

if they had been a bit more savvy - they would have got a lot more off him. There is a pub in our village that has featured in every DH Lawrence film I've ever seen. Places like New York and Dublin have entire administrative departments making sure people get the going rate from film makers. Romania has not got its act together - no doubt after this, it will do. In fact Romania wants to go to him, and publicly ask for a bit more money - he's done pretty well out of them. A high profile guy like that would find it hard to refuse publicly.

if you want to see real exploitation - hang around ANY group of musicians. Most of them can tell you tales of their music being ripped off and there being NO redress afforded by the sophisticcated legal systems of our countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Mickey191
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 06:35 PM

Bill D. mentions Jay Leno Almost going over the line. St. Patrick's Day Night-he went way over the line. He had a street interview with average citizens answering questions. The audience was then asked to decide (by applause) if the interviewees were drunk or sober.

An analogy might be: Showing Italian people being judged if they are _In_ the Mafia or _Not_ in the Maffia?   

You'll never see that skit. (I would not want to) But it continues to be ok to paint the Irish with a broad brush.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 07:03 PM

Today on Face the Nation, the standing Republican talking head used this exact Borat-Imus equivalent argument.

I guess this originated from right wing blogs.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 07:57 PM

Borat (or whatever his name) is disgusting. The gypsies did not understand what was being done. What Imus did was wrong and he had to be stopped, but the slimy 'humor' of Borat will continue to poison attitutes towards east Europeans for a long time to come.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Peace
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 08:02 PM

I watched one thing done by BBorat. Folks, he's not funny.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 08:11 PM

His main character was an idiot British rap star who interviews the top people in the US goverment, religious scholars, veternarians etc.

People would bear his ignorance and try to help him understand.
The one person who would not continue the interview after 10 seconds was Andy Rooney who said, "this guy is an idiot, there is no more interview"

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: mg
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 08:24 PM

I saw it I think...but I think he was defending the creep. Maybe someone should make a list and update us on our I-Pods..oh first I would have to master how to use them..and tell us who it is OK to demean this week and who not. Otherwise people like me get confused. And explain slowly and carefully how he is holding a mirror to us and showing us this and that..repeat once or twice so we truly understand.mg

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 10:49 PM

"The gypsies did not understand what was being done."

You mean they normally get requests to allow animals into their homes? That is a crock.

If you honestly think Borat will "poison" the minds of people to East Europeans, Jews, blacks, homosexuals, etc. - then you obviously did not watch the film.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Metchosin
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 11:09 PM

Sacha Cohen is a master of parody and a hoot! Imus, on the other hand, is not. Cohen holds up prejudice, to confront us and Imus embraces it as a way of life. That's my opinion, take it or leave it.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:24 AM

I watched the clips about the film only on Canadian television; and what I saw I didn't like. I would not go to see the film.
Neither would a friend of Ukrainian descent who also was upset by the footage he saw.
It wasn't very long ago that 'Ukes' here were ridiculed, even by a couple of their own so-called humorists, but now parody and jokes about Ukranian mentality are no longer accepted. Nor is a Uke-trap at oil rigs drilling near their farms.
The first joke I heard when I came to Alberta-
How many Ukrainians does it take to change a light bulb?
One to hold the bulb and 40 to turn the house around.

Also the one about a Ukrainian flyswatter. Ugh!

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: dianavan
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 02:15 AM

You got that right, Metchosin.

Imus is dangerous. Borat is not.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Mr Happy
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 05:46 AM

too many literalists??

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Peace
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 09:45 AM

Not a literalist. I just don't find the guy funny. I expect comedians and humourists to be funny. He ain't, IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 10:01 AM

I you've seen Borat, and "get it", you would realize that Borat is skewering people who behave like Imus.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Peace
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 10:03 AM

That makes him someone who skews. It don't make him someone who's funny.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: TIA
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 11:03 AM

No. Skewers. Skews means something else. But I am guessing you probably knew that.

My point is - whether one finds it funny or not. Borat and Imus are not the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: M.Ted
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:10 PM

Apparently, if you aren't funny, you must be burned alive. And, also apparently, it takes only one person to decide you aren't funny.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:16 PM

Q, you find it offensive yet you have no problem sharing a "Uke" joke?

You can't watch a clip and feel that you know the whole subject. It would be like judging Michaelangelo's "David" by only looking at the toes.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Peace
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:35 PM

M Ted. I am not deciding for you that he's not funny. I did say "IMO". That means that for ME he is not funny. I could give a rat's ass whether you roll on the floor over his humour. If that's for you, good. Enjoy.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Peace
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:38 PM

"You can't watch a clip and feel that you know the whole subject."

True. But I don't WANT to know the whole subject. That is much like saying, "You have to eat the whole plate of spaghetti to know the sauce isn't very good." You watch his corpus of work; I won't.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:48 PM

"True. But I don't WANT to know the whole subject. That is much like saying, "You have to eat the whole plate of spaghetti to know the sauce isn't very good." "

But you can't legitimately say the spaghetti or the meal was bad, you say the sauce sucked. You can't critique the entire meal because of one bad element. If you aren't hungry, you aren't hungry and should not complain about the whole buffet.

To watch one clip and not see it in the context of the film is not a way to judge the "corpus" of his work. It just isn't enough, and it can be taken out of context.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Peace
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:02 PM

I will watch ONE more. Then report back to the committee. Please suggest one to watch. BUT, I want it to be funny or have a point. OK?

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: dianavan
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:04 PM

I watched Borat at home on video with the 'straightest' friend I have. She said, "I'm so glad I got to watch this with you. I would never be able to watch it with any of my other friends and certainly not my family. Its extremely funny - except for the wrestling which was really over the top."

I have a feeling her friends would think Imus was O.K. They would have fit right in at the dinner party.

Borat and Imus are not in the same league at all!

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:12 PM

Peace, a clip might make you laugh, or it might not. The film might make you laugh, or it might not. The point is that the clips can be taken out of context when not viewed as part of the whole.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Peace
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:16 PM

OK. Gotcha. I guess I will remain ignorant as to the doings of Borat. Thanks for the reply, Ron.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:38 PM

The 'jokes' were to illustrate a point. I find them tasteless and racial.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: M.Ted
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:46 PM

You don't have to like anyone you don't want to like, Peace--

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:47 PM

"The 'jokes' were to illustrate a point. I find them tasteless and racial."

Yet you repeated them.   How is that different from saying it in the first place?

I'm not disagreeing with you Q, I'm just pointing out that is a fine line and intent is the more important factor. I do believe that actions speak louder than words, and as Lenny Bruce said - they are only words. Intent should have a greater bearing on what the individual does with those words. I do not believe that a word by itself expresses hatred.

There is no reason that you should find them funny or tolerate them. There is no reason that Peace should find Borat funny.

Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: Peace
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 02:02 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: Revisit Borat in relation to Imus fiasco
From: M.Ted - PM
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:46 PM

You don't have to like anyone you don't want to like, Peace-- "

Why, THANK you.