BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 04:03 PM

The brain child of Sarah's book.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 04:13 PM

Hmmmm. You're right - just five. Unless one counts Tripp- chances are pretty good that he will continue to spend a lot of time in the ol' home place. After his mother is out of school- when? five years from now? - things may be different.

Oh, OK, five. (grumpily)

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 05:26 PM

"Words can take on associations,..."

Yes, Kevin...they can, but 'nigger' was always meant to be demeaning, and there was no middle ground. It is nowhere NEAR 'retarded', which was meant simply to refer to those with 'diminished capacity'. I'd suspect that folks using 'retard' as a pejorative term caused others to react to ANY form of the word. Remember when someone used 'niggardly' in a commentary a few years ago? and horrified screeches arose from those who could not cope with the fact of that word having a NON-derogatory meaning?

Words do not go out and grab meanings....people (often the ignorant ones)imbue them with meanings beyond their original ones

"Mongol" was always a bad choice and a de jure insult to a race.

"How kind of Bill"..kindness has nothing to do with it. I know better than to USE the word in most contexts, for the reasons noted above. I am simply **noting** my opinion that it is NOT in the category of certain other words. I do not appreciate being forced to scan & censor my own vocabulary unnecessarily to conform to gratuitous changes.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 05:48 PM

"Nigger" was originally just a word meaning "black", an alternative to the earlier "neger", nothing particularly insulting about it. It acquired those associations from the society in which it was used, in which black people were exploited and despised. Which is the same process by which other words which may initially have been quite free from intended insult can take on that coloration because of the way a society treats and regards the people covered by it.

The word "niggardly" of course has no connection whatsoever with all this, and the incident referred to where there was a row over that was a clear misunderstanding by someone with a limited knowledge of the English language. A bit like the internet filters which are said to have had problems with the name of the Lincolnshire town of Scunthorpe.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 05:50 PM

The word "retarded" long was and still is a perfectly normal word that describes a condition. It means the same type of thing as "developmentally handicapped" or "mentally challenged", it just doesn't have near as many syllables. It has never been a word for insulting or demeaning people...though some individuals are taking it that way nowadays.

The insulting and demeaning word was and is "REE-tard"...with the emphasis on the first syllable. That was and is the abusive word used by nasty schoolchildren to insult other children...and you can tell quite easily by the aggressive sound it has when someone uses it, that sound being notable on the first syllable.

It is as much of an error to equate the normal word "retarded" with the abusive word "REE-tard" as it is to equate the abusive word "nigger" with the normal word "negro" or the normal word "niggardly", as BillD pointed out.

And that's about all there is to it. If you get upset over someone using the word "retarded" to describe a medical condition of someone, then you have been misled by some form of political correctness lobby into imagining that a perfectly normal and neutral adjective is some kind of personal attack on people. It's not.

But if you think it is...then nothing I or anyone else could ever say will be able to convince you it isn't, right? Well, fine. Go ahead and get all het up about it then, but don't expect me to join you.

These are just changing styles in language, driven by various political lobbies and fueled by self-righteous indignation for the most part. People are forever fighting needlessly over changing styles in language. When they do that, they're just like a bunch of lemmings rushing to join the rest of the politically correct mob in the latest trend and rush off the cliff together...or throw someone else off it, more likely.

You wait. Some perfectly normal phrase or word that YOU take for granted today and mean no harm by when you use it will be considered just terribly AWFUL by a bunch of people 30 or 40 years from now, and they will be raising hell over it. I guarantee it.

The only thing I can't tell you is which normal phrase or word of the present it will be....

A tempest in a teapot, I'd call it.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: pdq
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 06:00 PM

For the umpteenth time, the word niggardly has nothing to do with the "N word".

It comes from the Swedish word Nygaard and means "cheap' or "miserly".

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 06:07 PM

Well, of COURSE it has nothing to do with the "N" word, pdq. That's my point. But some people, you know, are looking so hard to find something to be offended by that they are capable of finding offense almost anywhere.

The only thing that is truly offensive is bad intent. When a word is used with bad intent, it's offensive, even if it is a word that the politically correct have not decided to demonize or ban. Intent is the thing to watch for. One can assassinate another person just as effectively with polite and acceptable words as one can with forbidden words. It's always the intent and the delivery which tell the real tale. If offence is intended, that is generally quite clear by the delivery, the tone, the attitude....and that's what matters.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 06:20 PM

But in the USA, where I live, only "Negro" was used in any sort of 'neutral' way. In the South, even today, (though less & less) you will hear those who are pretending not to use THE "N Word", saying "Nigra".
Both forms were clearly meant to affirm the user's disdain/hatred/contempt for a racial/ethnic group, and simply referring to color was seldom in their minds. Most bigots were probably not even aware of the etymology.
It was interesting, being in the college NAACP and watching as the "CP" changed what they wished to be called...from 'colored' or 'Negro' to 'black' to African-American (even those from the West Indies). Now 'black' is sort of back in style...depending.....

I try to respect the wishes of those affected, as far as I can determine it in various contests.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 06:22 PM

In the context of the discussion here of overpopulation, I admire the restraint of President Obama today. The Pope gave him a handbook setting out the catholic view on abortion and exhorted Pres. Obama against abortion in the USA.

THe temptation to stick it up the pontiff's infertile arse must have been almost overwhelming.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: pdq
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 06:23 PM

Yep, in the mid-1960s lots of Junior High School students (loosely defined) would insult each other by yelling "REE-tard!!!" or "SPAZZ!!!" (from "spastic").

It looks like some of Sarah Palin's detractors are stuck in the intellectual equivalence of grade school.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 06:27 PM

The teens around this town are still doing that.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 08:27 PM

So what's Sarah up to today? Is she beyond the pale, or is that pail?

Has she netted any more salmon?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: heric
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 08:38 PM

If you say retarded, it's only because you're geriatrically advanced.

The older we get, the less we keep up with these little politenesses, just as we start mixing plaids more and more.

(Your mother said colored with no contempt, but you don't say it at all.)

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 08:39 PM

The problem with Sarah Palion isn't as much the doing of the press, or her detractors but herself... I mean, yeah, folks like her... I like her... She's interesting and entertaining... But interesting and entertaining isn't what we need in the way of a president... We found out that the guy you'd like to have a beer with isn't the same guy you want running the show... If ya'll think the US suffered under George Bush then think how screwed up the country would get with Palin as president...

Anyone want to step to the plate here and tell my why they think Sarah Palin would make a good president???

Didn't think so...

That's the real story...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: heric
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 08:55 PM

I can't believe she has any political ambitions if she would insult Alaskans on their 50th festivities in such a pithy way. Alaska and Alaskan approval are her cachet.

I think she either wants to be an Alaskan mom with royalties or a TV star.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: gnu
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 09:16 PM

PDQ.... "It looks like some of Sarah Palin's detractors are stuck in the intellectual equivalence of grade school."

Perhaps. Now, if Sarah actually made it past grade school, I am sure she made it because the grade school teachers were tired of explaining things to her over and over and over... maybe she would know where Russia is.

President? I wouldn't leave her in charge of, "I'll take a message."

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 10:20 PM

Heric, the reason I don't say "colored" at all anymore is simply because it's gone out of style and I say "Black" instead because it's come into style....but I did have a Black girlfriend from England a few years back and she proudly used the term "women of color" a great deal when describing herself and other Black or brown-skinned women (such as East Indian women, for instance). I didn't find it offensive when she did that, although it was an expression I hadn't heard for some time. I knew she didn't mean anything offensive by it.

I don't find it offensive to call a retarded person retarded when no offense is meant. I don't find it offensive to call a blind person blind or a deaf person deaf or a lame person lame when no offense is meant. If one wishes to call them by some more complex phrases such as: "developmentally handicapped" or "sight impaired" or "hearing impaired" or "suffering an ambulatory handicap" or some cumbersome thing like that...well, fine, do that if it pleases you, but I don't think it will win you some kind of special morality and sensitivity medals or get you into "heaven" (I'm speaking figuratively, not literally when I say that).

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: heric
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 10:25 PM

I think one of the reasons it fell out of favor, beyond the mean comedy usage, was that it is not very accurate even when used as correctly as possible, and became much more inaccurate in general usage. . . . might be wrong about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 10:29 PM

"handicap" is widely resented. The origin of the word is fromthe period when those affected were unable to work, and so begged - holding out their cap to receive money gifts. They went "cap in hand". Hence "handicap". Or so a very bright wheelchair-user student of mine once told me.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 10:32 PM

Hmmm. No kidding? Well, we've got "handicapped parking" spots all over here, but I never realized the term was considered offensive by some people.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Amos
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 11:11 PM

From hand in cap, in reference to holding the game stakes in a cap. It was used in reference to horse races and golf first.


"handicap
c.1653, from hand in cap, a game whereby two bettors would engage a neutral umpire to determine the odds in an unequal contest. The bettors would put their hands holding forfeit money into a hat or cap. The umpire would announce the odds and the bettors would withdraw their hands -- hands full meaning that they accepted the odds and the bet was on, hands empty meaning they did not accept the bet and were willing to forfeit the money. If one forfeited, then the money went to the other. If both agreed on either forfeiting or going ahead with the wager, then the umpire kept the money as payment. The custom, though not the name, is attested from 14c. Reference to horse racing is 1754 (Handy-Cap Match), where the umpire decrees the superior horse should carry extra weight as a "handicap;" this led to sense of "encumbrance, disability" first recorded 1890. The verb sense of "equalize chances of competitors" is first recorded 1852, but is implied in the horse-race sense. Meaning "put at a disadvantage" is 1864. The main modern sense, "disability," is the last to develop; handicapped (adj.) is 1915.
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper "

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 05:14 AM

Yes, Oxford English dictionary largely agrees. Looks as if my student was being creative.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Alice
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 09:05 AM

Palin is an example of the "dumbing down" of American politics.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: pdq
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 11:18 AM

From snopes.com concerning the bogus high scool test scores attributed to Sarah Palin:


Origins:   Altering photographs of politicians to make them appear silly or ridiculous is a common way of poking fun at political figures, but other forms of image manipulation can be used for denigrative purposes as well. Case in point: The image displayed above, which purportedly reproduces a test scoresheet showing Alaska governor (and Republican vice-presidential nominee) Sarah Palin as having achieved high school grades and an SAT score that were decidedly mediocre.

There are several contextual clues that would give this image (which was part of a spurious background report on Sarah Louise Heath Palin) away as being a fake, such as the fact that Sarah Palin was a member of Wasilla High School's Honor Society, a standing she was unlikely to have achieved if she had truly pulled a barely average 2.2 GPA.

We don't need contextual clues to debunk this image as phony, however. It's clearly a manipulated version of a genuine test report belonging to Dawn Eden, who posted it on her own blog back in January 2004:

Ms. Eden noted in an October 2008 blog entry that:

"Gawker fell for a forgery that purported to be Sarah Palin's SAT scoresheet but was actually a Photoshop job — made by someone who stole my own scoresheet off my blog and pasted in bad grades.

The forger lowered the grades and scores on the printout to make Palin, an honor-society member, look like a mediocre student — but wasn't smart enough to hide the obviousness of the Photoshop job."

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 11:25 AM

She certainly is an amazingly inarticulate honor society member.   Perhaps grade inflation was more virulent earlier than we had thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: heric
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 11:35 AM

I think handicapped and disabled are more along the lines of BillD's and LH's thinking. There was a movement about to replace them with "differently abled" and other terms that didn't really catch on. (I still avoid them, just using the more specific term e.g paralyzed or whatever, and I don't think I'm scheduled for heaven anyway.)

I will always remember pressuring my unseen landlord on the telephone for window coverings I had been promised, when she told me I should back down because she was an invalid !!

Who's Sarah Palin?

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 11:40 AM

Sarah Palin is Tina Fey's understudy. And she's coming right along. (Not that I mean to underestimate her, of course)

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 11:43 AM

Why are people confusing being articulate with being intelligent? Two separate things. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: gnu
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 11:51 AM

You could be on to something there mg. Although, a politician who cannot explain even simple things due to being inarticulate may be seen to have failed somewhat in their decision making process when opting to offer themselves as VP of the USA.

Or, to be more concise and, perhaps, less articulate, she's as stunned as me arse.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 01:17 PM

She's quite articulate....she's just incomprehensible.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: gnu
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 01:22 PM

Now, if she was articulated, she could make a lot of money on the internut. Larry Flynt would give her a signing boner.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Alice
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 01:45 PM

An Alaskan blog had a contest for the best title for Palin's book.
The winner is......

"VAIN AND SIMPLE"

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 02:31 PM

How about: "I Never Met a Moose I Didn't Shoot"

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Alice
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 02:37 PM

or
"Aerial Hunting Wolf Blitzer"

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: pdq
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 02:37 PM

Actually, she is wrting a math book called "Moose Turd Pi".

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 02:49 PM

We need to take her seriously, actually. She is planning for 2012, as I noted earlier.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 02:52 PM

Agreed, Ron. I take her seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 02:53 PM

Why are people confusing being articulate with being intelligent? Two separate things. mg

Absolutely. And politicians who are articulate without being intelligent are probably even more dangerous than those who are the other ways round - or those who are neither, like the bloke you had for the last four years.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Alice
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 03:06 PM

Are you referring to George W. Bush who we had FOR THE LAST EIGHT years??

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 03:14 PM

I was referring to the period during which he had actually been elected president.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 04:09 PM

Actually, he may never have been. There were some rather peculiar voting irregularities in Ohio in 2004.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Amos
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 04:50 PM

Palin's lack of articulateness may not mean she is unintelligent but it means she cannot share her intelligence in communication. To be persuasive, therefore she has to resort to rhetoric and bullying, or flirting.

I suspect there is actually a good deal of coupling between intelligence and articulateness within the set of people exposed to a sophisticated language and a body of literature and science.

She abuses words in a way that makes her thinking look stupid even if it is not, and one would expect her to be smart enough, if she were smart, not to do that.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 05:03 PM

Maybe she's deliberately talking that way to appeal to a certain constituency that's out there, Amos. One thing I know for sure...you and I don't belong to it. ;-)   I don't think she's stupid. Overly aggressive and impulsive maybe, but not stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 06:08 PM

I agree. I think she's very articulate indeed, in relation to the audience she is aiming at. She gets across very clearly what she is trying to get across, which isn't a matter of communicating information or even ideas, but of persuading that audience to like her and trust her.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: heric
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 06:45 PM

There's no overestimating youse guys's underestimating of Americans. Palin was rejected decisively and immediately. Obama was elected. Now she has imploded. Talk shows and magazines. The end.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 06:57 PM

Yep. We take misunderestimating very seriously here.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 06:58 PM

The Republican Party was rejected. That was mostly because of the economic crisis which gutted McCain's chances of getting elected, partly because of McCain's own incompetence, partly because of Obama's brilliant speeches and impressive cool, partly because of Palin's incompetence.

It would be a serious error to credit it all to Sarah Palin, and she is definitely popular with a certain segment of the American public. She could build on that, specially if Obama makes some noteworthy mistakes in the next 3 and a half years and the public gets angry at the Democrats.

On the other hand, she could dwindle off into obscurity. I don't have a crystal ball on that, and neither do you.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Peace
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 03:46 AM

I wonder how long it will take people to forget Susan Palin?

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 07:19 AM

I don't think I ever knew Susan Palin!

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin will resign on July 26!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 09:52 AM

"I don't think I ever knew Sarah Palin".   Bingo.

Nor did the poster who said this ever do any research to find out. It would be refreshing if he would start thinking before favoring us with gems like this:

Popular Views on Palin:

9 Oct 2008 10;25 PM

"At least she (Palin) has more executive experience than Barack Obama and wasn't associated with an organization as subversive as ACORN".

Not that the Alaska Independence Party, which she praised several times, and which her husband belonged to for quite a while--though she now seeks to muddy the water on this-- is in the least subversive.

And again:

12 Oct 2008 9:00 PM

"What ever (sic) she did, or did not do the only hope now is to support her and McCain. Look at the alternative."

As I've said before, a poster always has the option to think before hitting "send".   

The poster who gave us the above quotes-- and many more-- must have taken a vow not to think.