BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 04:49 AM

Jim: I think the omissions you numerate would be subsumed under 'the truth'.

I take your point however.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 04:49 AM

As for Keith's justification of killing civilians

I do not justify any killings.
All I did was explain the law.
Please do not shoot the messenger.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 05:06 AM

Jim, why can you never discuss the issues without making it personal?

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 07:58 AM

"Jim, why can you never discuss the issues without making it personal?"
You appear to have no problem with "Muppet know, nothings", "leftie morons" and a whole string of methods of avoiding arguments
Glass houses and stones and all that.
Your ongoing and fanatical support for Israeli terrorism is now legendary - wear your medal with pride Keith.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 09:12 AM

I support no terrorism, and regard the civilian deaths in Gaza as unjustifiable.
The problem is not with international law, which was devised by the Red Cross and accepted by the governments of the world.
It is not with those countries that abide by the law, as Israel does but with those who flout it.

Hamas flouted the law with its indiscriminate attacks on civilians.
As Ki-Moon said, Israel had no choice but to strike back.
Hamas also flouted the law by operating from among its civilians so that civilians were inevitably harmed in the inevitable counter strike.

I have never called anyone a "moron," but have often been called one by you Jim.
"Know nothing" referred to the fact that some people attacked my knowledge of WW1 history without having read any history about it themselves. That is as personal as I get.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 10:22 AM

"Know nothing" referred to the fact that some people attacked my knowledge of WW1 history"
Which is non existent and extremely arrogant in assuming that those who don't agree with you are ignorant of the subject.
Terrytoon was the only ne wh agreed with you which makes everybody else a no-nothing - bit meglo, don't you think.
Your "muppet insult is long standing and somewhat boring - , happy to dig up some more if you want - glass houses, old boy
"As Ki-Moon"
I really don't care if Moses came down from the mountain with permission for Israel to do what they did - they are under investigation for possible war crimes and would have been decades ago if the U.S. hasn't stopped it.
Israel knows that, which id#s why thy have attempted to get the international criminal court closed down and why "Frieds of Israel" commissioned that risible report.
Denying massacres didn't happen when they did is supporting terrorism
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 12:27 PM

assuming that those who don't agree with you are ignorant of the subject.

Nothing written for twenty years disagreed any of my points.
None of you even knew that.
Nor could you quote anything of recent decades that agreed yours.

"Muppet" is not a personal attack. I call my grand-kids muppets, and I have not used it in a post for years.

The report is not "risible."
Whoever commissioned it, it is the findings of military experts fropm many countries who have worked within the constraints of the Law Of Armed Conflict for all their careers.

Those responsible for the deaths are those who hid among the civilian population while carrying out war crimes against Israeli civilians.
What else could Israel do to stop them?
(Not a rhetorical question. What else could they do?)

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 01:45 PM

"Nothing written for twenty years disagreed any of my points."
Really not going here again Keith - you haven't read everything, if anything written over the last twenty years so you can't possible know that
It is this repeated claim along with your dismissing everything written over twenty years ago that has made you the figure of fun you have become.
""Muppet" is not a personal attack"
Do yourself a favour and stop lying - you said it regularly as a dismissal of other people's argumets.
If you can't lose gracefully, at least show some pity for us lesser beings!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 02:05 PM


Really not going here again Keith - you haven't read everything, if anything written over the last twenty years so you can't possible know that

In three years of debate you could find nothing, while I quoted numerous historians dismissing your beliefs as "myths."

Do yourself a favour and stop lying - you said it regularly as a dismissal of other people's argumets.

I am not lying. "Muppet" is not a term of abuse. It is almost an endearment, and anyway I have not used it for years.
This is the most recent I could find,

Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 04:31 AM

"Unlike you pair of flag-waggers. I don't dig out 'historians" (or tabloid journalists) to make my case for me "

You can't because there are none who believe the shit that you two muppets do.
If you want to understand History you go to Historians.
I do not use them to "make my case for me" I got my case from them.
You two believe that you understand History better than The Historians.
That makes you a laughing stock.
You two believe that the historians are collaborating in a conspiracy to hide the truth.
Even more laughable.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 02:08 PM

I suggest you return to the subject before you get this thread closed.

Those responsible for the deaths in Gaza are those who hid among the civilian population while carrying out war crimes against Israeli civilians.
What else could Israel do to stop them?
(Not a rhetorical question. What else could they do?)

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 02:59 PM

"I suggest you return to the subject before you get this thread closed."
You were t6he one who raisd the astronomic I suggest you return to the subject before you get this thread closed.
e of your historical knowledge Keith, not me - six mentions inoe thread, two in another.
See what I mean about your dishonesty?
Those responsible for the deaths in Gaza are those who hid among the "civilian population while carrying out war crimes against Israeli civilians."
Those responsible were the ones who used the pretence of hiding "terrorists" hiding among the people to slaughter those people in #order to cull them out of the area.
You threw a wobbler once when I suggested you were in favour of slaughtering hostages - now you seem quite comfortable with it.
Progess I suppose - not sure in what direction
God save us all from 'Christians'
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 03:42 PM

Re. Terrorism, Again (Israel)

Meet Morad Bader Abdullah Adais the 16 year old Palestinian murderer who stabbed an Israeli mother of 6 to death -- in front of her children. He has been apprehended by Israeli police. Notice he's still alive, unharmed, without a scratch on him. In fact, it looks like he's chillin' without a care in the world. His father is quoted in the Palestinian press as being, "very proud" of his son.

This boy is being hailed by Palestinian leaders and much of the community. He may even get a street named after him in Ramallah somewhere. There is no difference between this mentality and that of ISIS.

So, when you hear the media describe what's happening between Israelis and Palestinians as a "conflict"; or hear dishonest politicians call for "calm on both sides", please understand that there is one side that wants peace - Israel. Let this picture of a brutal murderer in custody (and not dead) serve as a reminder.

Terrorism, Again (Israel) indeed!

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 07:51 PM

"Notice he's still alive, unharmed, without a scratch on him."
As are the death squads that roamed the blitz streets picking of survivors, or the officer who ordered patients back into the home then blitzed it with tank fire....... or any of them who slaughtered 1,462 civilians - 344 children And 110 women........
Defence Minister Sharon who was found to be responsible for the Sabra/Shatila massacre of 3.500 refugees was punished by being made Prime Minister of Israel - damned inhuman, if you ask me.
Funny thing, justice!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 08:15 PM

please understand that there is one side that wants peace - Israel.

That would almost be amusing, BullshitBruce, if it wasn't so disgusting.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST,Moiré
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 11:02 PM

Defence Minister Sharon (R.I.P.) returned territory - then nearly dying went into a comma. U.S. televangelists claimed Divine punishment (probably more likly he was making peace with G_d knowing he was nearing the end)


God save us all from 'Christians' 

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 11:17 PM

(Not a rhetorical question. What else could they do?)

Shoot the terrorists full of holes dump lard on him and throw him in a hole.
Question the family, emprison anyone who knew, deport the innocent.
Bulldoze the neighborhood and confiscate fifty square miles.
This is the only why to deal with Tribal Arabs.
(Times of Israel comment)

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 02:06 AM

You were t6he one who raisd the astronomic

No Jim.
You posted a quote from the WW1 thread to make an invalid point.
I just refuted it, and you kept it going.


Hamas flouted international law with its indiscriminate attacks on civilians.
As Ki-Moon said, Israel had no choice but to strike back. Anyone deny that?
Hamas also flouted the law by operating from among its civilians, so that civilians were inevitably harmed in the inevitable counter strike.

Why does Hamas need to attack Israeli civilians?
But for that no Gazans would have been killed at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 02:11 AM

Last Guest,
Google can not find your IT quote.
Where did you find it?

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 02:18 AM

It's not a exact quote. It from the stabbing of the Mother of 6 story.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 04:40 AM

"As Ki-Moon said, Israel had no choice but to strike back. Anyone deny that?"
Well yes actually – this from The Times of Israel:
"Netanyahu: No limit to UN hypocrisy on Gaza
PM lambastes Ban Ki-moon for singling out Israel on child casualties in conflict, calling his criticism 'a black day for the UN'"
What's your problem with guest's paraphrase Keith, Israeli treatment of Arabs if common knowledge?
Bulldozers
"You posted a quote from the WW1 thread to make an invalid point."
Nore again - this is the start of your diatribe on WW1 - in response to nothing
"Know nothing" referred to the fact that some people attacked my knowledge of WW1 history"
I think Mike was actually the firs to mention WW1 way, way back
Stop making things up - it makes you look more foolish.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 05:27 AM

Jim, you quoted from the WW1 thread, starting the drift, 19 Jan 16 - 07:58 AM .

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 05:39 AM

More
"Hamas also flouted the law by operating from among its civilians, so that civilians were inevitably harmed in the inevitable counter strike."
Not the case - certainly not proven.
The International Criminal Court is in the process of investigating whether Israel should stand trial for War Crimes - as with your support for the "Expert" investigation carried out on behalf of "The Friends of Israel", whose "independent investigation team made one visit to Israel (and a couple of later individual visits), interviewed only Israeli politicians and military, did not visit the devestated are and interviewed none of the victims, you are preempting any real independent inquiry in you ongoing support for Israeli terrorism.
Even if your claims are in any way true, the protocol on hostage-taking is to take as many measures possible to avoid innocent loss of life - 1,462 civilians - 344 children And 110 women and press reports of attacks on hopitals, schools, old peoples shelters and homes with occupants still in them appear to indicate random, indiscriminate bombardment.
You have yet to explain your volte face on killing hostages - first you are against it, now you're not.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 05:43 AM

"Jim, you quoted from the WW1 thread, starting the drift, "
Wha!!!
My posting from 19 Jan 16 - 07:58 AM .
"Jim, why can you never discuss the issues without making it personal?"
You appear to have no problem with "Muppet know, nothings", "leftie morons" and a whole string of methods of avoiding arguments
Glass houses and stones and all that.
Your ongoing and fanatical support for Israeli terrorism is now legendary - wear your medal with pride Keith."
Stop making things up.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 06:29 AM

From the Wikipedia entry on Ban Ki-moon:

"This is a Korean name; the family name is Ban."

Best to refer to him by his full name I think.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 07:05 AM

The correct polite form of address is Mr Ban. Using just "Ban" in writing about him would keep on leading to double-takes and is arguably wrong anyway, so I think Dave is correct in suggesting that we call him Ban Ki-moon. "Ki-moon", "Mr Ki-moon" or "Mr Moon" are all laughably incorrect. Best to have a little respect and check it out before using his name.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 07:31 AM

The first mention of WW1 unsurprisingly came from Keith at 9.12am on the 19th.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 07:58 AM

"unsurprisingly"
Now there's a surprise!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 11:27 AM

It is sometimes the weakest members of the Palestinian society who are incited to kill, and then be wounded or killed themselves. It's a tragedy on their side as well that young Palestinians—youth– are brainwashed to give their lives to murder Jews when their violence only ensures that peace will not be found. Where are the voices crying out against this society's abuse of children? Against a society that glamorizes its killers, naming streets after them, celebrating their deaths?

Child Abuse: The World Must Stand Up Against the Incitement of Palestinian Youth

Terrorism, Again (Israel)......indeed!

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 11:49 AM

"Terrorism, Again (Israel)......indeed!"
Two wrongs don't make a right, but neither does pretending it only happens on one side.
Jim, Carroll
Abu Khdeir
Arson kills child

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 12:04 PM

Just in case you still think it's one sided
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 03:13 PM

guest,

The first mention of WW1 unsurprisingly came from Keith at 9.12am on the 19th.

Wrong. That was me responding to Jim's quote of 19 Jan 16 - 07:58 AM .

He made up the "moron" but "know nothings" was a quote from the just closed WW1 thread and no other.

I responded and Jim kept it going.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 04:28 PM

No Keith. You were the first to mention WW1. Jim may have copied from another thread but he made no mention of WW1 that is purely down to YOU.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 06:32 PM

GUEST - 20 Jan 16 - 07:31 AM
"The first mention of WW1 unsurprisingly came from Keith at 9.12am on the 19th."

Ehmmm NO GUEST - First hint and veiled reference to the recently closed WWI thread:

Jim Carroll - 12 Jan 16 - 02:29 PM
"Go off and find one of your "real historians" who sell their books in "real bookshops"

Second

Jim Carroll - 13 Jan 16 - 08:36 AM
"Wot - no historians!!!!! I have no doubt they're waiting in the wings to be called."

Third

GUEST - 14 Jan 16 - 08:13 AM
"From the beginning of World War I, however, part of Palestine's land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80 percent of the Palestinian Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins."

Fourth

Jim Carroll - 17 Jan 16 - 02:48 PM
" - bit like asking General Haig's opinion on the rights and wrongs of WW1, doncha think Keith."

Fifth

GUEST,Musket - 18 Jan 16 - 02:28 AM
"There again, neither do any of the tactics employed in an adjecant thread discussing 100 years ago."

SIXTH

Keith A of Hertford - 19 Jan 16 - 09:12 AM
"Know nothing" referred to the fact that some people attacked my knowledge of WW1 history without having read any history about it themselves. That is as personal as I get."

Seventh

Jim Carroll - 19 Jan 16 - 01:45 PM
"Nothing written for twenty years disagreed any of my points."
Really not going here again Keith"

YOU'VE GOT TO BE JOKING JOM – You and your pals have been baiting at least two threads to try and get it back onto WWI – and as in most things you lot attempt you have failed. Best try something else to get this thread closed as you are being routed by fact, reasoning and logic as usual.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 07:49 PM

"You and your pals have been baiting at least two threads to try and get it back onto WWI "
You and Keith - totally on your own, dragged your antiquarian jingoism over at least four threads - you got no support for your arguments - all your own work.
Even after you had been pasted to the wall, Keith was safely entrencehed in his 'real histoian' dugout and you had both resorted to making up ridiculous (even for you) statements (prosperous Liverpool, democratic early 19th century Britain and a historical method whereby as a young historian appears the older ones commit HaraKiri and fall on their swords (still get a chuckle from that one) - you continued - Keith even reopened a thread after the other had been closed.
Failed - you're 'avin a larf - who did you convince?
""Go off and find one of your "real historians" who sell their books in "real bookshops""
Sod all to do with World War One Terrytoon - Keith started this back in The Irish Famine debates.
The guest posting refered to the subject of this thread - Palestine - sod all to do with WW1 arguments
All of these quotes you give refer to Keith's dishonest argiong technique - every single one.
Keith on the other hand attempted to reopen the WW1 thread and painted himself into a corner.
The fit posting attempting to reopen the lost cause of WW1 was Keith's the subject of World War - "Know nothing" referred to the fact that some people attacked my knowledge of WW1 history" - every other was aimed at his disgracefully dishonest behaviour - nice try - no cigar.
I'm sure that, now this pair of terrorism deniers have had their combined arses kicked good and proper over Israeli massacres you will now make an effort to divert the discussion to who said what first - nice try - another no cigar.   
"From the beginning of World War I, however, part of Palestine's land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80 percent of the Palestinian Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins.""
Are you seriously suggesting that this was about WW1 and not Israel? ---- Jay-sus!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 08:07 PM

"A senior official from the Palestinian political party of Mahmoud Abbas (Fatah) recently stated that Adolf "Hitler was not morally corrupt"
Bruce - you and Israel have constantly hidden behind accusations of Antisemitsm to defend Israeli atrocities - it is little wonder that soem of the more impressionable Palestinians have taken yours and Isreal's cue that those atrocities are not Israeli but Jewish - your antismitism is bound to instill antisemitism in others.
Following the invasion into Gaza before last, prominent figures in Israel were demanding that all Palestinians should have the electricity and water cut off and they should be driven into the desert to let their Muslim neighbours take care of them.
You have constantly told us that the Arabs have no right to their territory and have said they should be driven out.
Wiggle away, but you have not responded to one single example of Israelis murdering Palestinians
Wonder whether you are going to argue that the baby who was burned to death in the Israeli arson attack was a member of the Hitlet Youth.
What kind of people are you!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 08:30 PM

Jom I have very little interest in anything you say on any subject as experience has shown me that it is basically all falls into one or more of the following categories:

1: Made up shit

2: Baseless biased bigotry fueled from a well of anglophobia that defies description

3: Unsubstantiated newspaper reports

4: Unverifiable "quotes" that no-one else has ever heard.

When all these have had holes shot in them and your arguments had been destroyed you resort to throwing out baseless allegations.

Carry on whinging Jom, but in 1948 it was Egypt and Jordan who invaded and stole "Palestinian land" (Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem). Now did either the Egyptians and the Jordanians "give that land to the Arabs of Palestine in 1948? Did they heck as like - what they did do was imprison self same Palestinian Arabs in refugee camps, ensure that they lived their lives in poverty because that is what suited the pan-Arabic cause.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 02:32 AM

Guest,
Jim may have copied from another thread but he made no mention of WW1

He quoted from the just closed WW1 thread, accusing me of indulging in the kind of personal abuse he routinely employs.
I just explained why it was not. It was a factual description of their absence of any knowledge of recent (twenty years!) work on WW1 history.

Jim,
The International Criminal Court is in the process of investigating whether Israel should stand trial for War Crimes

Is it?
Everyone knows what IDF strategy was, so what is there to investigate?
In war there are always war crimes committed at unit and sub unit level, and that may be the investigation, and I hope any culprits are punished.

International law is there to minimise civilian suffering.
There is no question that Hamas flouted that law. You can see missiles and mortars being fired indiscriminately at civilians, from civilian occupied areas.

But for those war crimes there would be no civilian deaths in Gaza.
Why do they have to attack Israeli civilians at all? That is the cause of all this suffering.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 04:15 AM

"Everyone knows what IDF strategy was, so what is there to investigate?"
Then why not drop them a line explaining the situation and tell them too ask you if they need clarification on anything and save themselves all that time and money?
Don't be stupis Keith, if you think the death of 1,462 civilians - 344 children And 110 women doesn't need investigation and can be settled by asking the IDF why they did it, you are beyond help.
'The Friends of Israel' relised it needed investigation; that's why they commissioned an enquiry and mocked-up a report absolving Israel.
The U.S. have always realised that Israel has been breaking International Laws in their treatment of Arabs - that's why they have been forced to use their veto so many times to protect them from prosecution
Obama was so appalled at what happened in Gaza that he threatened to withdraw the protection of the American veto.
Israel realises that their actions breached international laws - that's why they have attempted to get the International Criminal Court closed.
We all know that an enquiry is necessary - we saw it on our televisions and read it in our newspaper daily throughout the period that the slaughter and destruction was taking place.
Since the Friends of Israel whitewash came up I've been poking around some past evens.
Th Kahan investigation held by Israel to absolve itself in a similar fashion - no evidence of proper research - just politicians and soldiers explaining why they allowed the massacre to happen.
Similarly, the Jenin massacre that wasn't- based mainly on the statement of an American military man who declared it wasn't a massacre.
Israel has powerful political allies who have spent much time and effort keeping them from being prosecuted for war crimes and atrocities.
Hopefully, this was a far too public display of international criminality to get them off the hook on this occasion.
"You can fool some of the people some of the time"
I see Terrytoon hasn't been taking his pills again!
Jim Carroll

Rafah

U.N. report

Jerusalem Post (can't Clickie it)

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/ICC-opens-inquiry-into-possible-war-crimes-committed-by-Israel-in-Palestinian-territories-387988

Human Rights Watch

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 04:42 AM

'The Friends of Israel' relised it needed investigation; that's why they commissioned an enquiry and mocked-up a report absolving Israel.

Yes, but there was nothing mocked up about the report.
Top military leaders, all from democratic countries, and not a Zionist or even a Jew amongst them.

It was Hamas who flouted International Law, which put their own civilians in harms way and whose consequent suffering they cynically exploited for propaganda.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 04:54 AM

Jim,
Similarly, the Jenin massacre that wasn't- based mainly on the statement of an American military man who declared it wasn't a massacre.

That dishonesty merits a dedicated post Jim.

The UN report to the Secretary General noted "Palestinians had claimed that between 400 and 500 people had been killed, fighters and civilians together. They had also claimed a number of summary executions and the transfer of corpses to an unknown place outside the city of Jenin. The number of Palestinian fatalities, on the basis of bodies recovered to date, in Jenin and the refugee camp in this military operation can be estimated at around 55."[79] While noting the number of civilian deaths might rise as rubble was cleared, the report continued, "nevertheless, the most recent estimates by UNRWA and ICRC show that the number of missing people is constantly declining as the IDF releases Palestinians from detention."[4] Human Rights Watch completed its report on Jenin in early May, stating "there was no massacre," but accusing the IDF of war crimes,[80] and Amnesty International's report concluded "No matter whose figures one accepts, "there was no massacre."[1] Amnesty's report specifically observed that "after the IDF temporarily withdrew from Jenin refugee camp on April 17, UNRWA set up teams to use the census lists to account for all the Palestinians (some 14,000) believed to be resident of the camp on April 3, 2002. Within five weeks all but one of the residents was accounted for."[81] A BBC report later noted, "Palestinian authorities made unsubstantiated claims of a wide-scale massacre,"[15] and a reporter for The Observer opined that what happened in Jenin was not a massacre

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 05:12 AM

Doesn't make any difference Keith - all combatants exaggerate their figures.
An Israeli spokesman during the Gaza massacres claimed to have killed 1000 "terrorist" - work it out for yourself.
What the Observer "opined" is immaterial - the number of people slaughtered by 1000 heavily armed Israeli teoop at Jenin constituted a massacre to ordinary human beings.
It has become fashionable to refer to all opposition to Israeli terrorism as "terrorism".
Whatever we may personally think of Hamas, they are the only ones standing between the Palestinian people being ethnically cleansedd and slaughters and their persecutors.   
Counties with a record of war criminality themselves, like the U.S. have made sure that the Palestinians have no outside support from politicians in 'The Free West'.
When push comes to shove, there is little difference between Hamas and the Israeli Freedom Fighters of the 1940s
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 05:18 AM

I've usually avoided putting up what the Arab Press has to say on these matters, but maybe it's time they were given a voice in these arguments.
This from The Arab News that I came across the day before yesterday.
Arab News
It was be good to hear a response to what is being said rather than the old usual of who is saying it.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 05:43 AM

Keith, He could of accused you of being a bed wetter but he did not mention WW1, you did that. Take responsibility for your own actions.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 05:47 AM

Having read through the contributions to this thread looking at references both veiled, oblique and direct to WW1 there appeared to be a great deal of wittering on about "land theft" by Jom the infallible and in support of this Jom was awfully keen on people looking at maps. Now Jom wasn't all that keen on maps in the past especially when asked to produce maps from either the Palestine Authority/Hamas/Fatah/Islamic Jihad/The Muslim Brotherhood/Hezbollah showing the boundaries and borders of this "Two State" solution they say that they are fighting for. Jom has a bit of trouble producing such a map you see as no such map exists, as NONE of those "organisations" have any desire at all to embrace even the remotest possibility of a "Two State" solution, they didn't in 1937, they didn't in 1947 - no doubt Jom can come out with some highly implausible reason for that that has nothing to do with statements about "driving the Jews into the sea" and "wiping Israel off the map".

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 06:27 AM

Guest,
Keith, He could of accused you of being a bed wetter

He accused me of resorting to his style of personal attack when I referred to people who knew nothing of recent WW1 history as "know nothings."

I just refuted it, making no other comment on the war.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 06:34 AM

""Two State" solution"
The Arabs have proposed a solution based on returning to the 1967 borders - that is not acceptable to Israel - simple as that.
The constant factor in this conflict has been the ongoing seizure of Palestinian land backed by military force.
U.N. report
Until the disputed territories become undisputed, there can be no solution.
The Palestinians would have to be out of their minds to accept anything less, there are already 6.5 million Palestinian refugees in the world today without adding to them.
I "witter on" about land theft because the stealing of Palestinian land is now an increasing act by expansionist Israel.
The reality of expansionism
The reality again
Israel has refused to set borders because, it claims, the Palestinians would not accept any borders - the truth is, that they will not accept borders the Israelis insist on.
Israel's demands
Sort of like a burglar saying "we won't give you back what we've nicked, but if you agree not to make trouble we won't come back".
What the Palestinians want can be found here
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 06:36 AM

For crying out loud Keith, give it a rest - you've "lost" (to borrow your own phrase
Jim Carrroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 06:52 AM

I really don't care about the reason. You accused Jim of mentioning WW1, he did not, you did. I seem to recall reading a post of the YAY thread when again you brought up WW1. Take responsibility for your own actions.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 07:57 AM

Read Teribus' post 20 Jan 16 - 06:32 guest.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 08:27 AM

"Read Teribus' post 20 Jan 16 - 06:32 guest."
Read it - answered it - it's a load of crap.
Now how about you reading and responding to the the load of links outlining Isreael's behaviour - are you waiting for your "real historian" to get back to you or just leaving a big enough gap to claim that nothing ha been put up that contradicts your claims?
Aswer the points - they are there for the knocking down by your claimed superior intellect.
Yours
Muppet Carroll