BS: Pants or trousers

Subject: BS: Pants or trousers
From: IanN
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 04:01 AM

Is referring to your trousers as your "pants" an American thing?

There is a debate raging in my office. Someone said he had special pants for important meetings which I found hilarious but he really meant trousers which isn't so funny!

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Mr Happy
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 04:06 AM

according to Paul Burrell's latest book:'i eavesdropped on the royle famly', these garments were always called 'tryzers'!

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 04:15 AM

It's n American thing.

They also use "suspenders" to hold up their pants.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 04:30 AM

That's right and out West we never tuck our pants inside our cowboy boots unless we want to look like a "dude*!"

And, we do Suspend, rather than Brace!*bg*

* greenhorn

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Mr Happy
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 04:42 AM

former pm john major used to tuck his shirt into his underpants!

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Jeanie
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 04:43 AM

And they also wear "knickers and high-cut boots" - well, Jerry Rasmussen does: Montana

This is getting to sound more and more like the Rocky Horror Show.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: IanN
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 04:48 AM

I need evidence (don't know what though) to back up my argument that pants are something you wear under your trousers and not over your "undies"!

Who'd have thought Edwina Currie would have been attracted by shirts tucked into pants!

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: gnomad
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 04:49 AM

Doesn't a vest go over your shirt in the States? Over here we keep 'em underneath if we wear 'em at all.

I have a sneaky feeling that shorts means a different garment too.

On a slightly musical theme what is the mackinaw that the frozen logger forgot?

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 04:59 AM

Don't get me started on clothes terms in US fiction: cordovans, loafers and wing tips, four in hands, fedoras, feed caps, watch caps...I've spent ages working out these. (The first 3 are shoes styles, next is a bow tie, the others headgear).
And why is wearing white shoes after labour day such a no no? (Apart from the mud!)
RtS
(Today I am mostly wearing moccasins over an ankle support, dress pants, lumberjack shirt, singlet, jockeys and sweater).
PS don't drink out of an athletic cup

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 06:10 AM

Hey Skiff...Four-In-Hand is a way of tieing a long tie as opposed to a Windsor knot.

Like in most things (food comes readily to mind), we are indeed separated by a common language. Works in reverse here as well....I remember cracking up over "Y-Fronts."

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Mr Happy
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 06:36 AM

cracking up over "Y-Fronts." - why?

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 06:44 AM

Talking of Y-fronts, anyone apart from Roger old enough to remember "drawers, cellular"?

When I was a kid in the fifties in England, "pants" were trousers; underpants were, well, "underpants". And "vest" is also respectable, if old-fashioned, English English for waistcoat, as well as for undervest (a word you don't hear these days).

I remember grandad telling me that ion his youth, no working men wore underpants: they had lined trousers instead. I expect the snootier types wore something a bit more dainty, though.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 06:48 AM

RtS: no white shoes after Labor Day? That would sure bugger up my bowling (if I knew when Labor Day was).
Of course, it comes to me now. Labor Day tends to fall on the same week-end as the Worldcon (World sf convention), and was invented to give us a long week-end to attend it!

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 07:09 AM

A mackinaw is a short woolen coat, favored by those who, like loggers, spend time in the snowy forests of Maine, Upper Michigan, and the Pacific Northwest. There is one made by Filson (one of the traditional mackinaw makers) pictured here http://smtp2.thewwwstore.com/filson/85.HTM
but they have evolved over the years and now come in other designs.

Down har in Kaintuk, we'uns call em "britches." Like in, "Joe Bob, git yet britches on! The catfish are a-callin'!" Mind you, I only live here; back where I grew up we called such garments "pants" "trousers" "britches" and/or "jeans." I've also heard them called "trews" and "breeches."

Gentlemen do not discuss nether garments in public forums....

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Declan
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 07:13 AM

"She told me promise breeches were since ever first the world began,
But I have only one pair and they are Corduroy"

Little Mollie Brannigan

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 07:33 AM

me generally referred to "brief-style" cotton underwear as either "U-Trou" or "Whitey-Tighties." The most common term for boxer style was either just boxers or "drawers," which they also share with Long Johns, as in "Long Handle Drawers." I refer to my underwear as "missing" because I quit wearing the damn things a long time ago. Gave up on socks too, unless I'm wearing boots.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Micca
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 07:42 AM

Strictly speaking trews are Tartan trousers as worn by certain Highland regiments rather than the Kilt.
Underwear Cellular, because of its likeness to a certain brand of breakfast cereal, was known in RAF slang as "Shreddies"

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Jeanie
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 09:05 AM

I wonder if anyone else here wore a liberty bodice ??
(A total misnomer, if ever I heard one).

- jeanie

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Noreen
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 09:17 AM

Oh Jeanie yes! My three sisters and I wore a liberty bodice every winter. Very warm they were too... Was 'Liberty' a trade name for them, or what?

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: MMario
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 09:17 AM

trews used to be much more generic though.

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 09:21 AM

When I took ROTC, back in the 60's, we were informed authoritatively by our training officer that women wore pants and men wore trousers.

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Noreen
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 09:24 AM

Declan, I've never heard that verse (and it's not in the DT, MOLLY BRANNIGAN)- can I have the rest of it please? :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Noreen
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 09:41 AM

The Liberty Bodice (article only, no picture... BTW, if you search for "liberty bodice" in Google images, what you see is certainly not how I remember them...)

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Jeanie
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 09:46 AM

Noreen - more than anyone ever wanted to know about the Liberty Bodice to be found right here

- jeanie

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Noreen
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 09:50 AM

! Beat you, Jeanie!

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 09:51 AM

My dad, (who's even older than me, Steve) refers to his voluminous underwear as "Bombay Bloomers" which I expect is WW2 forces slang. He claims the RAF issue ones they got were so big, 3 men got in one pair and marched up and down the billet in them. (Well they didn't have television in those days).
RtS
(I still don't know about the white shoes, where is Martha Stewart when you need her -in court I guess?)

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Jeanie
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 09:51 AM

Quite so, Noreen !!!

- jeanie

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Declan
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 09:52 AM

Noreen,

I heard it from Dick Hogan's version. He has a CD out for a couple of years, but I don't have a copy and I'm not sure if this song is on it. I don't know all the words, I can only remember a few fragments including the lines I poted above. I went looking in the DT but I think I was spelling it wrong. There's at least one other verse where the poor man gets very worried in case having lost Molly, he was also going to lose his only breeches.

I have a notion I might have a recording by someone at home. If I do I'll post it next week some time.

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 09:58 AM

Rule used to be, no white shoes before Memorial Day or after Labor Day. I suspect that was because lighter colors were worn in the hotter weather.

Memorial Day is the last Monday in May; Labor Day the first Monday in September.

There are those in the US who still follow this rule.

By the way, white shoes and white belt used to be called a "full Cleveland." No, I don't know why.

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: wilco
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 10:04 AM

Libertys are bib overalls in the Southeast USA. Nany men wear them everywhere, with the new overalls getting use on Sundays, funerals, weddings, etc. "Liberty" is the name of the company that manufactures overalls, and there is a little label on the overalls that say "Liberty." My children absolutely die from embarassment when I wear my libertys. Yeeehawww!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 10:04 AM

My mother out me in a liberty bodice at a tender age (about 2-3), and I'm a chap! All I can remember is those rubber buttons (quite comy--they didn't dig in) and a sort of stiffish t-shirt affair, worn under a conventional shirt (which only opened part-way down) ... I don't recall my little bro wearing one.

Steve

P.S. No suspenders on mine!

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Mr Happy
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 10:09 AM

battle cry of the suffragettes- 'Up with skirts & down with trousers!'

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 10:12 AM

Try to discover an "Alaskan Tuxedo"!

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Áine
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 10:27 AM

Just to throw a spanner in the works here -- Are there any Southern ladies out there who remember demi-pants?? And I'll wait to explain what those were -- but, I'm thinking you Brits out there can guess the answer before the Yank(ee)s can. ;-)

-- Áine

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 10:37 AM

This is how I've always understood American usage:

"Pants" is a non-specific term referring to any type of leg covering other that skirts or kilts. "Trousers" is generally used to refer only to "dressier" varieties of pants. The pants worn with a suit may be called "trousers", but bluejeans never are.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Kim C
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 10:51 AM

I say "trousers" because I think it's quaint. Most of us don't use suspenders anymore except for decoration. ;-)

Kat, I understand that the thing about to tuck or not to tuck depends on what state you live in. I know a couple of Real Cowboys from Texas, and they tuck. They are both over 60, though, so I don't know if it's a generation thing or not. I also know a guy in Nevada who tucks. My friends from Idaho tell me they do not tuck there.

I think I read in the book Cowboy Culture, that back in the old days, everybody tucked so they could show off their boots, because a cowboy's boots were a status symbol.

Personally, I would rather tuck, as I prefer the scorpions not to crawl up my trouser legs!!!! :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: weepiper
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 12:35 PM

Pants or trousers? Neither - breeks.

By the way, if you guys in the States call braces suspenders, what do you call what we call suspenders? (that is, the bit which holds ladies' stockings up)

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Kim C
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 12:48 PM

Garters! But most folks wear pantyhose.

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 01:12 PM

Here in Yorkshire they definitely wear their pants over their underpants but in Essex where I grew up you wore your pants under your 'chrousers' or 'Strides' or even 'round the 'ouses' (well there were a lot of Eastenders moved out our way!

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Sonnet
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 01:57 PM

Round Barnsley you wear your kex over your britches!

Jay McS

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 03:44 PM

Liberty bodice - great tune by Ed Rennie. I've never had the nerve to ask Annie what the inspiration was.

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 04:54 PM

The "ladies" were getting quite bold by the time of the Columbian Exhibition in Chicago, 1892. I have a pair of suspenders for ladies stockings that feature as the decoration a 2 cent Columbus commemorative stamp under a celluloid (?) cover. I have been told that these attached to the girdle or some such (I stand to be corrected).
Garters were those elastic things that held up flappers stockings (and always shown on can-can dancers). I have heered tell that men once wore some gadget to hold up their socks that had an elastic around the knee but I don't know if I believe that.

Trousers come from the big city stores (or pretentious small town) and pants from Sears-Roebuck. Trousers were pressed by the housemaid and pants were pressed under the mattress. (Yes, I remember when every middle class house had a maid's room). Now everything is permapress.

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: The Walrus
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 06:02 PM

RtS,

As I understand it, "Bombay Bloomers" were the British Forces issue khaki drill shorts, which were cut with a turn-up from just below the knee to well up the thigh, allowing the shorts to be let down to (almost) full length trousers after sunset (At one point, regulations stated no shorts or rolled up sleeves after sunset because of mosqitoes).

Regards

Tom

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie)
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 06:46 PM

Years ago, I was walking along one of the paths at Pinewoods Camp (on Long Pond in MA) with a shy teenaged girl who was wearing white t-shirt and shorts. We met Douglas Kennedy, there with his wife Helen as teachers that summer,- stopped to exchange pleasantries. After a remark or two about the weather, Douglas smilingly said to my young friend, "My, what enchanting panties you have!" The poor girl blushed, burst into tears and ran. Douglas never quite realized what had caused this reaction until I enlightened him much later.

P.S. Douglas Kennedy was the director of the English Folk Dance & Song Society, successor to Cecil Sharp.

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 07:41 PM

I wear fatigues - am I doing something wrong? And yes I do have red pairs.

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Burke
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 08:00 PM

45 messages & no one has mentioned slacks yet. I think of them as dressy pants. (US usage)

When I was little we wore Pedal pushers, now they're Capri Pants. I wore coulottes, now they are split skirts.

In the US a jumper is a woman's dress made to be worn with a blouse or other visible top under it. In the UK it's a pull-over sweater.

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 08:43 PM

Oh my word, Áine, I REMEMBER demipants. Hadn't thought of those for years! (Do you remember pre-pantihose days, and ...?)

I started college in 1967. We always wore a skirt or dress on campus. After a couple of years of miniskirts, pantsuits were popular. The only time I wore jeans on campus was during exam week when everyone was grungy. Shortly after, jeans were all I wore. (even had a pair of maternity jeans with the little flowers embroiderd around the hem.)

Is it true that even to this day ladies always wear dresses (as opposed to pantsuits) in Atlanta?

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 09:51 PM

Always thought of slacks (yes, fairly dressy) as pants which could be worn with a sports coat or sometimes a blazer- which was a fairly dressy jacket like a suit coat. The blazer usually had brass buttons. Sorry for the definition of a definition kind of a sentence, but I have no idea what they are called in Britain.

I also remember that grown men who wore short pants in rural or small town South were whistled at by male locals and perhaps attacked if they went into a bar. Only a Yankee or foreigner would expose their legs in a public place.

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: GUEST,Tom Hamilton
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 09:56 PM

we in Scotland wear troosers, and that pants are worn underneath your troosers

Subject: RE: BS: Pants or trousers
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 09:58 PM

Bell bottom trousers- enter in DT for the Oscar Brand song. I remember that they were popular with women a few years back. I would guess that navy sailors still wear them.