Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: Ragman
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 05:48 AM

I listened to the first half of the programme on the way to a folk session, and thorougly enjoyed it. Billy, as his wont, talked a little too much, and some of the stories were not quite as I remember them, but his love for the music clearly came across, and I thought the music was great.

Not many people credit Billy Connolly for his own song writing either, and I think it's a shame. He has written some great lyrics in his time. I think many people have unfairly categorised Billy as a duff musician, either because they don't like the particular brand of music he did/does, or more likely because they think they can make cheap points in an article and dont have the manners to research the subject properly or try to understand what makes the music good for him and others.

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: ThreeSheds
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 05:56 AM

Well I enjoyed the programme
What made such a refreshing change was that the music played wasn't all heralded as " my all time favourite" or was the most blindingly obvious choice
But best of all MH barely got a word in

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: GUEST,Zebedee Tring
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 06:22 AM

Shula - It's so nice to hear from you since your departure from Borchester.

You can listen to Billy Connolly's selection here on Radio 2's listen again untill Wednesday 14th July

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: Shula
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 06:33 AM

Dear GUEST,Zebedee Tring,

Never having been to Borchester, I must confess that I am not THAT Shula.

Sorry to disappoint,

Shula

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: GUEST,Zebedee Tring
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 06:39 AM

Bugger!

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: Shula
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 07:45 AM

Dear Mr. Tring,

While I am not THAT Shula, and your disappointment is understandably keen, you might have been just a trifle kindlier in your greeting. I haven't posted much in several years, but I had hoped at least a few folks might remember me in somewhat less hostile terms.

Shula (of old)

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: GUEST,Zebedee Tring
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 07:59 AM

Custard, jelly, fruit cocktail, cream. Is that a trifle kindlier?

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 08:16 AM

<< Every death is a tragedy to someone >> (posted earlier on this thread.)

No, my point was that "tragedy" is an oversued word, and used without thought for its special meaning. As a synonym for "incident in which someone dies" it is a wasted word. A tragedy is something which ends in death (or failure), and has a certain inevitability to it. The death (or failure) arises from an act by the person much earlier, or from a flaw in their character or conduct. It is a powerful dramatic form.

In this sense of the word, the downfall of Thatcher was a tragedy - she was brought down by the enemies in her own party that she had made along the way, and with the self confidence and self belief that brought her to power turning into arrogance and a belief in her own myth. However, in the weaker sense of the word, as used by most newspapers, few of us would call her downfall a "tragedy". :0D

Conversely, the death of John Smith was a "tragedy" in the weaker "media" sense of the word, but not in the dramatic sense.

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: GUEST, Mikefule
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 08:17 AM

Ooops! Dunnit again. Forgot to fill in the "from" box. That last post was from me.

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: JudeL
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 09:34 AM

When Billy Connolly did his "Tour Round" series in Ireland he was shown joining other musicians in "folk" pub sessions. He appeared to be thoroughly enjoying himself & sounded good. It may not now be what he does to earn his living and I accept that it is not what he is most famous for , but does that make him any less a "folkie" ?

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: Shula
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 12:17 PM

Dear Mr. Tring,

Haven't you forgotten the ladyfingers? We should have thought of having a trifle when we were providing virtual vittles at the song circles. I fancy a trifle now you mention it. You might want to serve it with a nice Darjeeling. Happy thought, that.

Shula

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: Ed.
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 04:03 PM

I'd like to say a big 'thank you' to Jane Anderson (The Radio Times reviewer).

Without her 'loathing' Billy's choices, Steve wouldn't have started this thread, and I'd have missed an excellent programme, which I enjoyed very much. As mentioned above, it's still available (for the next few days) at the BBC site

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 08:08 PM

John Smith's death was a tragedy. We might have still had a Labour Party.

I'm not a huge fan of the MH prog, but I "listened again" and thought it a good broadcast - apart from the absurd comments about women can't do morris. We're in the 21st century Billy!

The Radio Times (and Beeb) has been in decline for years. Does Clive Doig still do his puzzles?

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: Compton
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 08:34 PM

If an Englishman was here, He would have her lashed like a cur!!

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 04 - 07:30 AM

Fossil remembers Jasper Carrot as a singer guitarist. I remember him as a folkies' agent, which he primarily was.

I remember Mike Harding as a folkie, who disintegrated into something not easily categorised.

I remember Billy Connolly as a folkie, which for my money he still is. He may have drifted into comedy, but folklore and story-telling are big elements of his act. Villan may not be old enough to have seen him at the Bishop Grosseteste college, Lincoln (UK), in 1968 or 69, then partnered by Tam Harvey. (Gerry Rafferty came later, as Akenaton pointed out.) No-one who was there will have forgotten that night nor would question Billy Connolly's folk credentials. I made a point of seeing the Humblebums several times thereafter, and much as Billy liked to natter, his musicianship was beyond doubt.

I am reassured to hear that others are unhappy with Mike Harding's playlists. One trait which seems inexplicable to me is that whenever he plays something from a particular album, it's nearly always the same track - as, for instance, with the new Waterson-McCarthy album he's been playing from recently.

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 11 Jul 04 - 03:22 AM

Another stereotype: in yesterday's Guardian listings section: Jade the Folk singer. Lowdown at the Albany, London W1, Monday. Can't stand chunky sandals or cheesecloth shirts? Then you'll adore Sarah Adams' spoof folk singer, with her right-on songs about whales and dolphins.

Don't all rush, there'll be room for all!
RtS

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Jul 04 - 09:42 PM

oh come on let's loathe his taste in music, BC's got loads of money - he won't give a stuff.....

Subject: Update: Radio Times 31/7-6/8
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 07:50 AM

I see Ms Anderson has written in the Radio Times of the Cambridge Folk Festival (BBC Radio 2, next Saturday 9 pm). Good to see she keeps up with world opinion, for she writes:

It is with some trepidation that I write this preview, for the last time I mentioned folk music in these columns a folk-lover's internet chat room [she means us!] became so enflamed [sic] by my comments that one of their number decried me as a follower of the Cheeky Girls (among other things). To set the record straight, I own nothing by the Cheeky Girls but am in possession of albums by Jimmy Cliff, the Divine Comedy and the Levellers, all of whom are on this programme of highlights. I do not, however, care for men with beards.


So we'm in with a chance, then, Roger...!

Steve

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: Folkien
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 08:19 AM

Ah, the power of Mudcat!

Jimmy Cliff, the Devine Comedy, the Levellers. Folk? Hmmm. I think Cambridge has lost it's folk credentials just a little bit, which will suit Ms Anderson down to the ground. This woman is beardist and needs to atone for her crime by doing community service with a morris side.

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 08:22 AM

AHA!!!! Now comes the REAL insult - it's not the music, it's the beards she's not woman enough to handle! LMAO!

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 08:30 AM

You can't be absolutely sure - it may be she quite likes beards on their own ...

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 08:36 AM

There maybe some hope................
From The Radio Times for Monday 26th July. TV Insider page 74.

Sharp practice
She's presented a huge variety of music on Radio 3 and BBC4, but now Verity Sharp makes her debut a a live TV presenter on Proms On Four:Elgar's Third Symphony (7.30pm BBC4). "It's daunting in the way that anything new is, but I love doing live radio and I'm hoping it'll be a buzz," she says.

Tonight's programme, featuring three English composers (out of four), ties in with this year's English theme. "It's a great prom to start with because I've just taken up the fiddle and I'm learning to play English traditional music."

Sharp, a one-time cellist, joined Radio 3 in 1992 in preference to becoming a professional musician. "You can't take a cello around with you and start playing in a pub," says Sharp. "With a fiddle you can meet people and simply play tunes together."

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: el ted
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 08:46 AM

I read "nuts" myself, you get all the programme listings, it's funny, and it tends to feature young ladies without a lot of clothing on. Far better than The Radio Times.

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 08:54 AM

There was a photo of the rather attractive Verity Sharp.

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 10:09 AM

Lest she think that no one is left who remembers, I am tickled beyond words to see Mudcat's own Shula back in these precincts. She was posting but sparingly when I came here, but I went back and read those charming early threads.

Great to see you here once more, Shula.

Mick

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: alison
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 02:01 AM

lovely to see you back Shula, we had some good if very fattening song circles the last time you were around *grin*

I hope you're keeping well

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 03:37 AM

...and she probably thinks alll blues fans are overweight middle-aged men in black t-shirts drinking beer...(Oh, bugger, I've just looked in the mirror, she's right!)

RtS

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 03:44 AM

I'm a Villa man myself, Roger!

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: AllanW
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 04:19 AM

I remember we used to run a folk club in Doncaster at the Corporation Brewery Taps in the 1980s, and we ran it on alternate Tuesdays, the other week being the Train Spotting Club. We took the piss out of them, and I'm sure they took the piss out of us. The idea is not to lose any sleep over it.

The only reason folkies are ridiculed is because some of us perpetuate the stereotype. If you go out and buy an anorak, thick-rimmed specs and binoculars and stand on Crewe Station, you're gonna get sniggers. If you turn up at a pub with an unkempt beard and sweater and insist on your own mug and pretend you knew Cecil Sharp personally, well prepare yourself for a ribbing from those in the bar.

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 06:36 AM

I have been thinking. Perhaps there is no hope if presenting the proms on TV (even if it is only BBC4) is thought in BBC circles to be promotion, from presenting roots and folk music on Radio 3? How long will it be before young Verity forgets about expressing dangerous views like enjoying and even taking part in English traditional music sessions.

The BBC4 TV coverage of the proms is good. Apart from the BBC's obsession with getting as many presenters in as possible, as if the music was less important. They just show the whole piece of music.

Now if only this could set the pattern for their coverage of other forms of music. The Cambridge Festival coverage is a joke. You have lots of presenters and lots of interviews but only snippets of music from selected acts all squeezed into a 30 minutes show and none of it live.

I look forward to a Festival being staged, consisting entirely of presenters, presenting each other and of the BBC coverage of this event. Hold on a minute - I am describing the BBC's coverage of Glastonbury!

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 04:34 PM

interesting to see Sharon Shannon described as a singer in this week's Guardian Guide.
x e

Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 29 Jul 04 - 03:44 AM

Probably on advice from their legal department, Eliza!