BS: Wall Street Protesters...

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 08:08 PM

What Don said...

GfinS says that the Fed should be shut down??? That is a very irresponsible and radical position... When I have questioned her about the ramifications of shutting down the Fed or basic economic theory she seems to have no answers... What she does have when asked to back up her positions with facts is one of two defenses... Attack the questioner or post a music video...

I mean, both can be entertaining but neither show much depth of understanding about some rather basic stuff...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 08:12 PM

There is a great deal of intellectual sympathy with the Wall Street Occupation elsewhere in the country. Will it trickle through to the less acute in the population, those who are victims of Wall Street bankers but who have been convinced or frightened by the GOP into voting for candidates who don't support their best interests, who shill for rich industries and bankers?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 10:59 PM

Read GfS's remark on Bobert's cat thread, LH, then come back and sing his praises.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 11:12 PM

How can a guy be so 'sensitive' to a cat, and so insensitive to the thousands who are losing their jobs, homes and hope?...and support the one who is expanding wars, fraudulent bailouts, and policies of hardships on this country??
Beats me.
I thought the humor might bring a smile to him...not a nervous breakdown.....but then maybe his cat was a Democrat, too.
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 11:17 PM

Chinese tacos, GfinS, is an insane and insensitive remark...

Go f yourself...

Bye, again... You really need serious counseling...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 11:24 PM

From Ringo Starr:

.."It don't come easy,
You know it don't come easy.

It don't come easy,
You know it don't come easy.

Got to pay your dues if you wanna sing the blues,
And you know it don't come easy.
You don't have to shout or leap about,
You can even play them easy.

Forget about the past and all your sorrows,
The future won't last,
It will soon be over tomorrow...."

Channel it into your next gig!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 12:51 AM

The cat comment was mean, 999, no doubt about it. Other than that, I have no particular bone to pick with GfS....but if I was determined to go on a personal vendetta against this person (with whom I've had some interesting telephone conversations, and therefore probably know a bit better than the rest of you do)...well, THEN I'm sure that the cat comment alone would be sufficient excuse for me to damn GfS for all eternity. (I'm being satirical when I say that...I don't wish to damn anyone for all eternity)

Anyway I'm not on such a vendetta. I know GfS reasonably well outside of this forum, and I know that although Gfs is not a perfect human being...and did make an insensitive remark about Bobert's cat...that is not the whole story and entirety of who GfS is.

GfS is an interesting character, an original thinker, and cannot be easily defined as the stereotypical rightwing monster that people here mistakenly imagine GfS to be. Not by a long shot.

I trust you know that I am firmly on the political Left, correct? I have been all my life. This does not blind me to gross stupidity and hypocrisy and lazy thinking and blind prejudice and deep dishonesty when it occurs on the Left which it often does..just as it does on the Right, but wearing a different mask of righteous fury. People on the Left are guilty of lazy thinking too...just like people are on the Right. GfS has criticized George Bush and the Bush administration stringently in the past, as well as criticizing Obama and his administration, and the banks, and the major corporations. No one here even notices when GfS criticizes Bush or various other people on the Right...but y'all go nuts when GfS criticizes Obama or the Democrats. Funny thing about that. People only seem to notice when their own ox is being gored.

GfS is not a perfect human devoid of all "sin", but is also not the awful stereotype Right Wing loonie you imagine. Not in the least. I know this from direct experience, accordingly I don't put the absolute worst possible interpretation on whatever GfS happens to say in some post here....but several of you do. And that is why nothing GfS says will ever satisfy you. You don't want to be satisfied, you just want to prove that GfS is the evil person you've decided you want GfS to be...to justify your state of anger.

That's a closed loop, like a snake eating its own tail, nothing good coms of it, and nothing I can say will change it, and I know that...so (shrug) I just wasted a whole bunch of keystrokes, didn't I?

C'est la vie. At least I got to express myself, and that's about as much as anyone here is ever going to get from indulging in their daily bit of hoo-hah on this forum. So my advice is: don't take it all so damn seriously. It'll only cause you a lot of pointless stress if you do. I'd rather be happy than be (supposedly) "right" at the expense of someone else on the other end on an internet connection.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 03:05 AM

I would like to agree with you SRS, but I'm afraid that in the real world, the system (Capitalism) rules....everyone and everything is subserviant.

What we are seeing in the West, is a consequence of unregulated Capitalism......BUT, to serve the purposes of the nation, economic growth must be engendered, and expanded.....for ever.

The number one rule in Capitalism, is that we must keep producing and consuming wealth.
The truth is, that the system has become unsustainable, and will remain so until our standard of living has dropped to a level where we are once again globally competitive.

This of course will be unacceptable to us, our children and possibly grandchildren.
There is no way round this state of affairs, other than to completely reform society....and that is the difficult bit.
All our generation can do is make a start on the road by pointing out the terminal faults and contraditions which have become apparent in our present economic system.

The left needs to make a serious attempt to reach out to the coservative majority, both in the US and the UK and forget about the political dogma which has divided us for so long.

And that means stop pushing social policies which make division inevitable.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 03:10 AM

I have never seen a rational post from Fugitive from Sanity, and its posts generally display either absurd disconnects from reality or a total disregard for those who would be harmed by the evils it seems to support.

SRS's recent posts here are however models of good sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 03:11 AM

"Stealth Weasel".......:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 09:41 AM

Stilly has class, insight and brains. She does her homework regarding issues. On more than a few occasions I've messaged her over the years to get her take on stuff, and she's been forthright and honest. I don't always see things her way, but I have always respected her view.

'sides, I ain't gonna argue with no one lives through a Texas heatwave. I can think of easier though not faster ways to meet my maker.

#######################################

My hope is that the Democrats don't get their hands on this protest, because it's never had a thing to do with them.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 01:14 PM

Little Hawk: "The cat comment was mean, 999, no doubt about it. Other than that, I have no particular bone to pick with GfS....but if I was determined to go on a personal vendetta against this person (with whom I've had some interesting telephone conversations, and therefore probably know a bit better than the rest of you do)...well, THEN I'm sure that the cat comment alone would be sufficient excuse for me to damn GfS for all eternity. (I'm being satirical when I say that...I don't wish to damn anyone for all eternity)"

Why, It was so 'bad' that Bobert had it taken off the thread, about the cat, and re-posted it!!!.....after it was gone!
It was not intended to be 'mean', but rather to bring a wry grin on his face. Apparently, it wasn't taken that way.....but then, neither was:
"General Electric is planning to move its 115-year-old X-ray division from Waukesha , Wis. , to Beijing . In addition to moving the headquarters, the company will invest $2 billion in China and train more than 65 engineers and create six research centers. This is the same GE that made $5.1 billion in the United States last year. but paid no taxes-the same company that employs more people overseas than it does in the united States .

So let me get this straight. President Obama appointed GE Chairman Jeff Immelt to head his commission on job creation (job czar). Immelt is supposed to help create jobs. I guess the President forgot to tell him in which country he was supposed to be creating those jobs.


If this doesn't show you the total lack of leadership of this President, I don't know what does. Think about it before you buy a GE product.


It really shows the complete take over of our Democratic government by corporates and bankers. Until we reverse the criminal Supreme Court, Citizens United decision, that holds that corporations are people and money is speech, and fund election campaigns with public money, to stop the corporate and banker crooks from corrupting our elected officials, we will continue to be subjected to policies that serve the best interests of the biggest crooks, rather than the people, of this country.

Just so you know, Justices Kennedy, Roberts, Alito, Scalia and Thomas, were the 5 that held for the decision. Justices Stevens, Ginsburg, Breyer and Sotomayor, held against. This decision allows corporations, even foreign owned multinational corporations, from pouring unlimited, unaccounted, and unattributed monies into our political system to influence voters not just in elections, but also in referendums. They can purchase 100's of millions of dollars worth of commercial advertising to promote a candidate or a bill or destroy a candidate or bill.

If any further rigging were required, the above criminal activity can be combined with the fact that we are increasingly adopting electronic voting machines that have been repeatedly and publicly hacked in demonstrations, in as little as 15 minutes. But since the machines themselves are controlled by corporations, the hacking factor is pretty much redundant. No other democratic country uses them, for this reason. Might be worth considering the factors in play, by which we insist on using them.

In short, big money owns us lock, stock and barrel. And if big money determines slaves overseas should do our jobs, then that's the way it's going to be. But don't worry when Americans get desperate enough to work for SFA(Sweet F**k All); then the corporate assholes might just bring some jobs back here.

(As long as this IS the 'Wall Street Protesters...' thread....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 01:26 PM

Good heavens, I thought it was going to be the first - but then it all went pear-shaped.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 01:32 PM

Oh, and there is this:

A few changes I personally would like to see should "We the People" actually get a voice in a land where "corporations are people, my friend" and "money is speech".

1. Public funding of elections.

Take the private and corporate money right out of the equation. Our elected representatives will then be required to work for ALL the American people, and not just for those who have backed and funded their campaigns.

2. Citizens United decision should be revoked.

Corporations are NOT people and money should NOT be entitled to speech, and the 5 Supreme Court judges who supported this corrosive decision should be investigated to see how they or their family members directly benefited from this action.

3. All legislative safeguards that have been dismantled over the last 30 years should be re-examined and exposed to the light of day.

Anti-monopoly legislation and especially Glass-Spiegel (which restricted banks to actual banking practices and prevented them from behaving like drunken sailors at a Las Vegas casino, which we now know was the direct cause of the US and global economic meltdown of 2007) should be updated and reinstated.
We have a total lack of real competition in major areas of our economy, this must be addressed and "too big to fail" eliminated. All legislation that rewards moving American jobs overseas must be revoked and legislation that does the opposite passed. All Free Trade agreements must also be reexamined in the light of saving and recreating American jobs.

4. All monies drained from Social Security and Medicare for other purposes should be refunded and locked in place

Successive governments have siphoned money from these programs to fund other, non productive activities, Engaging in unfunded wars drained much of Social Security, legislation that benefited corporate criminals only, such as Medicare Advantage and Medicare Part D, which were giveaways of taxpayer money to insurance and pharmaceutical corporations, put Medicare in troubled waters (intentionally, to justify eventual privatization). These programs could be put right by a tiny transaction tax on Wall Street trading. Once misappropriated taxpayer funds have been restored to these programs, the accounts should be locked to all purposes except those originally intended.

5. Revoke the Federal Reserve charter.

Our democratically elected government should be responsible for issuing our own legal tender, backed by the "full faith and credit" just as it is now, but without the debt to the bankster gangsters. I would prefer our government, open to oversight and answerable to the people, over a bunch of secretive banksters, with no oversight at all, any day. Could they possibly do worse than a private cabal, that we recently learned, thanks to Sen. Bernie Sanders, had secretly passed out 12 trillion dollars to their international bankster friends, including the Bank of Libya. 12 trillion dollars of unsecured loans, a debt that you and I, the American taxpayer, are on the hook for. Could YOU ever imagine going to your local bank and obtaining an unsecured loan, not likely.

6. Prosecute those responsible.

I believe we still have prosecutors in this country, you have to wonder "why aren't the bankster gangsters who crashed the global economy, and profited obscenely from it, being prosecuted for the demonstrable fraud that they committed?".

Many other good things would naturally follow, for our country and our people, the single, but incredibly difficult act, of prying the corrupting hands of corporate crooks and bankster gangsters, out of our government. A government that was meant to be "Of, By, and For the People", ALL the people, not just the 1% at the top.

We are now at a point where this is doable,not for nothing do polls show that fully 82% of Americans disapprove, 62% of that 82% "strongly disapprove", of the performance of our corrupted congress. (The 14% that approved may suggest just how large a number of Washington lobbyist's are employed by the corporates)"

Hmmm, does that sound 'right wing' or 'left wing'?
Who cares??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 01:33 PM

That happens to some women after 30....

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,petecockermouth
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 01:35 PM

all the best to the folk raising spirits and hope in the states. here in england we can only watch with horror what happens in your country while sickened by the fact that the entire world economy is run for the benefit of a few billionaires, mostly in your country. any voices raised in protest about this deserve all our thanks and support.(by the way, liberal(it means easy-going) in the uk is the default political description of most people. i live in the north (and the same is true of wales and particularly scotland) and can honestly say i have not had more than half a dozen conversations with any right wing or conservative people (far less republican/t party - i am afraid on this size of the pond sees them as weird, greedy and dangerous) in the last 30 years. most of us can see where our interests lie and instinctively understand that the rich and well-connected are engaged in a class war-stealing from ordinary folk the world over. usually, we just moan but let them get on with it -a fightback is long overdue so we aren't all dragged down by the death throes of the capitalist experiment. to the barricades, citizens!
(p.s. for americans -cockermouth is the name of my town - a town as delightful as it sounds)

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 01:36 PM

Richard, the connecting reference was linked to the Chinese...as in 'Chinese tacos' and other activities in China, from the corporate Democrats.
Have an apricot.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 01:52 PM

Petecockermouth: "...(by the way, liberal(it means easy-going) in the uk is the default political description of most people."

In this country, 'liberal' no longer means that. Instead, they have been swayed and corrupted, to be supportive of the very billionaires that you have spoken of. So, if one 'attacks' the billionaires, but those billionaires SAY they support the programs of this administration, which in turn are promoting the very thing you pointed out, the 'not-so-bright' 'liberal' common folk, think you are attacking THEM!....no matter how obvious it is that they are duped beyond belief!
Here, the Democrats and Republicans support virtually the same thing, depending on who wraps it in whatever given rhetoric, that they can muster public support for.....long enough for them to en-act bullshit on us all!.....only to find out, that it doesn't work...then they blame it on each other!!!!!
We have become a divided nation, over the corrupt practices of their foul agenda!!!...which is total control over every aspect of our lives, and the stripping away of our freedoms!

Does this make sense to you, from your vantage point?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,petecockermouth
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 04:10 PM

here too there is nothing much to choose between the 2/3 main political parties. both entirely in the pocket of big business, both as likely to support the illegal wars waged in the interests of capitalism. while labour start from the ideal of being on the side of ordinary people their record is shameful, in recent times being 'relaxed' about the wealthy stealing vast amounts from the rest of us while inequality just soars and common decency and solidarity is degraded. the conservatives do not even try to pretend they are working for everyone -they just supervise the acclumation of vast amounts of capital to big business and individuals. evil scum. anyway, i'm off down the pub

peace and love and revolution

pete

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 04:28 PM

"Liberal" has different and pretty specific meanings in different contexts.

As to FFS's second attempt at a rational post
1. Agreed. Electoral reform should have been on the agenda last erection but only Kucinich went near it.
2. Yes, Citizens' United is probably wrong. Disclosure is the key, and you haven't got it.
3. Largely agreed. Maybe not all reinstated, but certainly considered for re-application. Funding of those voting for the repeals should be investigated - I suspect fraud and bribery. After the first sentence you wander off into dangerous realms, however.
4. You need a welfare state. What you propose is not enough, but it might be a start. I don't know how to lock it save by amendment of the constitution.
5. Unclear to me
6. Yes.

However, you overlook something even more vital - control of the media. The FCC balance requirement should be reinstated and applied to print and internet media too (excluding nutters like creationists) and there should be controls on concentration of media power - the present media are the reasons so many Americans are morons and vote for moronic things: they have been assiduously trained to be so. It is not the people, it is not the genetics, it is the reservation of decent education for the rich and accurate information for those already privileged.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 05:23 PM

The Wall Street protests are only the rumble of thunder off in the distance. The storm is definitely on its way, and, unlike the Tea Party, it is independent of the current corrupt political parties.   CLICKY #1.

This is also worth a look. A sort of "Manifesto" of those involved in the protests.   CLICKY #2. Click on the arrow to the right of each heading for further details.

This has to have something going for it because it is already being viciously attacked on Right Wing web sites as "Socialism!!" and "This would ruin the country!"

But—measures like this are fundamentally how FDR dug the country out of the Great Depression back in the Thirties. And this, of course, makes the Right Wing barf on their shoes because they've worked all this time to rescind the various measures and regulations that FDR put in place to end the Depression and prevent a recurrence. But the Right Wing wants to do the very same things that brought about the Depression in the first place. And the measure of their success is that they've managed to bring us to our present predicament.

"Those who will not learn from history. . . ."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 06:02 PM

Good post, Don.

I heard today that various unions are adding their voices to it, but unfortunately some Democrats are also. I hope they are there as people, not Democrats.

I saw the same thing after McCarthy won the first primary in New Hampshire. All of a sudden Kennedy's people saw a safe ride. They hadn't had the cajones to do it first, but they were happy to wait and see what happened with Eugene. That, imo, was simply opportunism. I hope that even if the Dems try to co-opt this, that the protests continue anyway.

ymmv

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 06:16 PM

Buddy Roemer, former Louisiana governor and current Republican presidential candidate who is being blackballed by the media and the Republican Party has endorsed Occupy Wall Street...

BTW, I will be attending the Charlotte, NC "Occupy Wall Street" assembly this Saturday...

As for the other Repubs dissing the movement??? That's a good thing... It would worry me if they weren't...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 06:17 PM

La palabra (the word) is "cojones", hombre. You say "cajones" een Mexico and they will laugh! CO-HO-NES!!!

As in...."Breeng me hees cojones!"

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 06:20 PM

Great, Bobert. But remember, songs don't stop projectiles or nightsticks.

Course, bangin' one of them sticks against your head would be like taking coal to Newcastle.

You be careful. Y'ain't 20 anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 09:20 PM

Don: "The Wall Street protests are only the rumble of thunder off in the distance. The storm is definitely on its way, and, unlike the Tea Party, it is independent of the current corrupt political parties.   CLICKY #1"

THAT is an absolutely FALSE statement. 'Move On', 'SEIU' and the Teamsters, are funding this. Who is 'Move On' and 'SEIU'?....George Soros!!!..He is the Koch Bros. equivalent, to the 'left'....even though he, himself, is a rabid capitalist!

More hypocrisy, and smoke and mirrors.

petecockermouth: "here too there is nothing much to choose between the 2/3 main political parties. both entirely in the pocket of big business, both as likely to support the illegal wars waged in the interests of capitalism."

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!! Same thing, on THIS side of the pond!...but at least YOU GET IT!!!!! The 'groupies' of the 'left' absolutely DO NOT see it!....and that's why there is such uninformed, semi-literate blathering going on here!!!

(They just hate it when I point that out to them!)

GfS

Regards!
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 09:56 PM

Thanks, brucie, but I've been waiting almost 4 decades for this... If they wanta bust on my head then that's the way it goes... Bust on it... It been busted on before... I don't gibe a shit... If my 92 year old mom could walk better than she'd offer her head for bustin', too...

I mean, we progressives are always gonna offer our heads for bustin' if at the end of the day we get justice and we have moved humanity forward...

Personally, I don't gibe a flyin' fig what they want to do to me... Been here an' done this...

I can't wait until Saturday... Just don't break my hands 'cause I gotta a blues challenge on Sunday...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 10:04 PM

What's a 'blues challenge' ??

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 10:20 PM

Blues challenge: every regional blues society does an annual "challenge" to see who gets to represent them in Memphis for the International Blues Challenge (IBC) in February...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 10:28 PM

Well Bobert, as I suggested to you before, channel the death of your kitty, into the blues performance....it should come off well, cuz you be singin' da blues...with feelin'!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 10:28 PM

well .... then the best of luck to ya Bobert.

biLL ... :~)

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 10:30 PM

THAT is an absolutely FALSE statement. 'Move On', 'SEIU' and the Teamsters, are funding this. Who is 'Move On' and 'SEIU'?....George Soros!!!..He is the Koch Bros. equivalent, to the 'left'....even though he, himself, is a rabid capitalist!

GfS, you can't see that Soros looks out for the little guy, while the Koch brothers look out for big industry and millionaires?

(They just hate it when I point that out to them!)

No, I think what they don't like is your choice of words and your tone of voice.

You notice how polite the Occupy Wall Street folks are? Let it be an example to you.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 10:34 PM

Thank you, Magz.... What the Tea Party mentality folks don't understand is that OWS are folks who understand non-violence... The Tea Party??? Rednecks who don't get it...

We'll win...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 11:41 PM

SRS, My tone of voice??????????????????????
Maybe its the tone you think I have, but that's all in your head..or how others have projected what that 'tone' is. I'm just letters on a screen...and Soros is NOT out for the 'little guy'. He is out for POWER, and using the 'little guy' to get it! Ask any Brit about how the pound was devalued...and who did it.

GfS

P.S. I misspoke earlier, it wasn't the Teamsters, it was the UAW, and the Teacher's Union,(AFT)...and this protesting, though the reasons may seem justified, the list of demands is completely nonsensical. if you'd like to go through them, I can easily show you why they don't make sense...(Though you may be able to do that by yourself). Check them out.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 12:31 AM

GfS - your word choices make the tone very clear. Very clear.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 01:59 AM

The unions are NOT the Democratic Party. Nor is George Soros, or for that matter, Warren Buffet. Not ALL billionaires are indifferent to the problems of those on the lower end of the financial spectrum. Bill Gates, no matter what you may think of Microsoft, has given away many billions since he got married and Melinda humanized him. Warren Buffet complaining that he's not being taxed enough. Ted Turner some years back gave away a third of his billions, saying "NOBODY needs THAT much money!"

The Wall Street protests WERE sparked through the internet and encouraged by organizations such as Move On and People for the American Way. Progression groups. This sort of political communication is the wave of the future.

That's the problem with those poor sods who are unable to think in anything but pigeon holes. That's the unmistakable mark of a--well, that's the "B-word," and Joe doesn't like it when people use it. So I won't.

Even if that's exactly the case.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 04:01 AM

I've been through this many times in my long membership of the Communist Party.

You know what......It just makes you feel better, a minority(and you will always be a minority) standing up to injustice, but in reality it just makes matters worse, entrenching opinions on both sides....and that always means "worse" for the poor and underpriviliged.
The only way in which society can be changed in a meaningful way is through unity and in our case that means we shall almost certainly never see it....but our grandchildren might!
It means finding common ground with the people who are not politically motivated, who want a quiet life, a reasonable standard of living, a little freedom and a sensible lifestyle.

This may come as news to you guys, but the grass roots folks of America and Britian have no taste for Martyrdom..

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 08:17 AM

This may come as news to you, ake...and Gfs...but what you are witnessing here is a Change, not finanical, or even political, but a whole Change of Life.

I've been trying to tell folks for YEARS that the world was heading for this, but everyone thought I was nuts..

This is NOT a Recession. This is a Global Meltdown. It is not going to get better, go back to 'normal' for normality is no longer out there, at present..

The financial systems have been screwed, not just by the Corrupt Corporate Bastards and Bankers, but also by The Quants, the Physicists who have taken over Wall Street...They have now created financial systems SO complicated that only they understand them, and at times, even they struggle to do so..The system has been imploding for years and has now reached Mega-Crisis Point.

So, where does that leave us?

Well, in Deep Shite, in many ways...and it's going to be rough, VERY rough, I fear, but....the Silver Lining is The Young People who are out there now Occupying Wall St and a whole lotta other places....

They now have an anger SO deep, a determination SO strong to turn this planet around that they WILL succeed. It may take a while, for these guys have trillions to protect themselves with, but soon they'll find their money counts for nothing.

People are sick and tired of it all. Their Corporate Bubble has burst bigtime...and the moment they raise interest rates, which of course, they WILL, putting millions at risk of losing their homes, their businesses, their jobs, even higher risk than we have at present, the entire modern way of life will start to implode bigtime.

It is why the politicians are so scared...
It is why the media is doing all it can to NOT report on what is happening....

They are shitting themselves, because they KNOW what is about to go down in the very near future...

And you know what? When it does, those police officers will change sides, for their jobs are gonna go too, despite the Corporate Bastards pouring money into the NYPD at present, to try to protect themselves...

The Young People are NOT going to give up on this one. They have nothing more to lose and everything to gain...

Life will change drastically and radically, exactly as the Hopi Indians have been predicting for decades..It is already happening right now...

So, you'd best get Spiritual, folks..learn to love your neighbour, for we are all going to have to depend on one another as never before, shortly...and that's a GOOD thing. This turmoil will bring Love back. It will get people talking to each other again, caring about one another..doing jobs for each other, where money is not needed...

We will start to look at our Planet, perhaps for the first time in decades, in a very different way, going back to Nature, dependant on Her once again...


When I went over to the 'Occupy Wall St' facebook page around 2 weeks back to show them support, tell them how proud I was of them all, I also asked for their help in stopping Brazil going ahead with the dreaded Belo Monte Dam...asking them to fight for Chief Raoni and his People..and asking them to join me over on the 'Support Chief Raoni' facebook page...

They came....

They came in their THOUSANDS, in hours, in days!   

And they came fuming that they knew NOTHING about Belo Monte, NOTHING about the Decimation of the Rainforest which is about to happen..NOTHING about the SIXTY other dams Brazil plans to build after Belo Monte, the world's third largest dam...

They knew nothing of the severe droughts and environmental damage caused by China's Three Gorges Dam (the biggest in the world)..nothing about how many good people are being murdered in The Amazon Rainforest at present....

They do now...

And they have spread that page around the world!!!

The internet is a mightly powerful tool, if used in the correct way..and there are now HUNDREDS of 'Occupy' pages on Facebook, with almost every major city in the USA having demonstrations...

The protestors are taking over the London Stock Exchange on 15th October...and you watch it start to spread like wildfire over here too...

We are living in extraordinary and tumultous times...for our Young People are feeling as Storm Tosssed and Battered as our Weather System is making our Planet feel...

Everything is doing what it is supposed to be doing, for a whole new way of life lies ahead...and a FAR better one....

So, hold on tight.....

And Bobz..you take good care of yourself. I'm REALLY proud of you, too! (((xxx)))

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 12:11 PM

‎'Declaration of the Occupation of New York City'
As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate ...forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the coopera...tion of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.

They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.

They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one's skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.

They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.

They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless nonhuman animals, and actively hide these practices.

They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.

They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.

They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers' healthcare and pay.

They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.

They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.

They have sold our privacy as a commodity.

They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.

They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.

They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.

They have donated large sums of money to politicians supposed to be regulating them.

They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.

They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people's lives in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantive profit.

They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.

They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.

They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.

They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.

They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.

They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.*

To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard!

*These grievances are not all-inclusive.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 12:13 PM

Keith Olberman reading the above statement

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 12:17 PM

As 20,000 rally in New York alone....

"This is only getting....BIGGER!"



Hey, Corporate Bastards, Wanker Bankers, Corrupt Politicans and Quantifying Quants of Wall Street....If you treat people like shit, then you get shit thrown back at you. Just be grateful it's Peaceful Shit, where all your former workers and customers are whispering:

"We are NOT taking this ANY LONGER!"

But that whisper is being whispered by tens of thousands, and they will soon be HUNDREDS of thousands..

And The Whisper will become The ROAR!

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 12:28 PM

Please sign and share, if you are standing beside these brave young people..and indeed, people of ALL ages now who are rallying to The Cause to take their lives BACK! :0)

Avaaz's 'The World Versus Wall Street' Petition

Taken from the above:

"To fellow citizens occupying Wall Street and peoples protesting across the world:

We stand with you in this struggle for real democracy. Together we can end the capture and corruption of our governments by corporate and wealthy elites, and hold our politicians accountable to serve the public interest. We are united - the time for change has come!"

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 01:32 PM

Did you get all of that, GfS?

Not just Young People, Lizzie. Plenty of people my age (when the Big Bang occurred, I'm the guy who said, "What the hell was THAT!!?"), especially if we're old enough to remember how things were before Reagan gave the U. S. back to the Fat Cats, are totally fed up with the present situation.

There is an interesting line in Rafael Sabatini's historical novel, Scaramouche (set as the French Revolution was just about to start). "If the throne topples, it will be those who are nearest to it who will be crushed."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 01:55 PM

X Factor politics......

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 02:01 PM

Wouldn't it make a great deal more sense to direct the protests at someone who is in a position to make changes? Wall street, certainly, won't.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 02:05 PM

Oh, Don..don't worry, I mentioned folks of 'all' ages in my post just above yours. :0) xx

LOADS of links on here..

The 'Occupy Wall St' Facebook page.....

Bruce, get yourself a Facebook page!! :0) x

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 02:08 PM

Well, Dick..the 'Anonymous' guys have threatened to shut down the New York Stock Exchange on 10/10. Whether they will or not remains to be seen, for it could be a hoax, but..other times they've done this kind of thing.

'Anonymous' (which was born from the *brilliant* film 'V for Vendetta' is filled with guys with magical computer brains, who are pretty darn good at hacking into anything, should they so choose..

So, watch this space, as they say....

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 02:17 PM

It's difficult for the public to know how to respond to the present political state of the world, dick, seeing that the normal traditional voting process has been rendered null and void by lobbyists' money.

What are people to do when the political parties and the system are co-opted by major financial elites?

We've seen what they finally did in Egypt...but the Army is now running Egypt, and it seems likely that the people will in no way receive the genuine progressive changes they had hoped to secure by toppling Mr Mubarak (Who, after all, was just one man...you can remove the symbolic leader of a corrupt system...but does that really change the whole system? Probably not! It probably just renews itself under some new leaders.)

So what are people to do? Wall Street is a well known visual symbol of the financial elite and a gathering place for activities that relate to the doings of the financial elite.

Therefore it makes a certain amount of sense to do a Wall Street Protest, does it not? It's rather like the Parisian mob storming the Bastille, an outward symbol of oppression....but that was a violent protest. This one isn't, so far.

A public that feels robbed and disempowered and helpless will eventually rise up in some way. When the police and the army either join them...or stand aside and refuse to use force upon them...that is when the power elite may fall. What comes in the wake of that is anybody's guess.

It happened in the Soviet Union in '89. It happened in Egypt. It can happen here too.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 02:18 PM

Scenes from last night on Wall Street

And Ake...'X Factor Politics' ?

Hardly.

The X Factor is run by Corporate Bastards, who have used, and abused, the Music Industry for way too long. They have humiliated many people, deliberatly picking them for their *lack* of talent, knowing they'll be laughed at and ridiculed, all to get their 'ratings' up...They make artists sign highly dubious contracts too..

No, the people out there on the streets are against the very kind of folks who run these kind of programmes in the first place, dumbing people down, turning them into proles, making them think 'celebrity' is all-important, all-consuming...

X Factor Politics is what they are rebelling AGAINST!! They want REAL Politics, REAL Politicians, REAL Leaders, who are honest and true, brimming over with Integrity and Honour...



Good try though..... ;0)

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 03:32 PM

If any thinks that hackers shutting down the Stock Exchange will help reduce the economic inequities that are plaguing our economy, I'd love to hear an explanation of how.