BS: Where have all the wines gone?

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Hrothgar
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 12:19 AM

Back in the days when we used to run raffles in pubs to raise funds for the rugby club, the last raffle of the day used be be for a $50 note wrapped around a bottle of wine.

The bottle of wine was asti spumante (and cheap asti at that), and the only way to drink that stuff was to chill it so cold that you couldn't taste it. The usual advice was to pour the grog on the ground and hit yourself on the head with the bottle.

... but ther were people who liked it ...

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Hollowfox
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 03:46 PM

Funny thing...I stopped in a wine shop in upstate New York a cuople of weeks ago, and thw only lake niagara wine I could find was from the Widmer winery (Naples, NY). It tastes just as good as I remembered it from mumble years ago. Their web addy is www.widmerwine.com and they have a toll free phone number 800-836-5253. They do ship.

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 07:26 PM

I've checked the Widmer site, Hollowfox, and it looks like they've got some good stuff. I'll be calling them on Monday to see if they can ship to Alabama.

We were eating at a really great Mexican restaurant near here yesterday, and the waiter recommended a dryish red Chilean wine, Fronterra Cabernet Sauvignon / Merlot, made by Concha Y Toro. I haven't found Merlots or Cabernet Sauvignons particularly interesting in the past, but this was a very interesting and enjoyabe wine.

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: van lingle
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 08:20 AM

Carol, I used to keep that C&T CS/M as table wine. You can get a big bottle of it at most Publix grocery stores here in Florida for about 8 or 9 bucks.
Peg mentioned Mateus. I don't remember what it tastes like but the necks made excellent slides.vl

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: JennyO
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 09:23 AM

Ah yes, Hrothgar. I remember SPEW-mante. People used to insist on bringing it to my parties and leaving it behind, while drinking all the good reds and chardonnays. I would usually take one of these along to the next party, and do the same thing. Life's too short to drink bad wine ;-)

Even longer ago, I remember my friends getting large flagons of wine, simply for the purpose of getting drunk. Disgusting stuff it was, but it worked - which leads of course, to this song:

The Wine Song   

There are those who like their wine
Because it adds sophistication
To that hearty meal they're serving to their friends.
And there are those who like their wine
Because it helps in the creation
Of that party feel on which so much depends.
And there are those who'd like their wine
To come from eastward-facing chateaux
On the plateaux of Lorraine and all that bunk
But their motives are not mine
And I like lots and lots of wine
And I like it 'cos it makes me drunk.

There are those who take a glass
Because it helps them to relax
They find it helps their social manner to improve
Well, that's a jolly useful scheme
Which I have taken to its logical extreme:
I sometimes get so well-relaxed I can't move
And there's another kind of fellow
Drinks champagne to make him mellow
And he swears by Cliquot, Bollinger and Brut
Well, I tried some Brut meself
I found it on the bathroom shelf
And he was right: it got me mellow as a newt.

You can judge your wine by the quality of the vine,
Or its colour or bouquet or all that junk.
But it all comes back to the falling over factor
And the fact that it gets you drunk.

There are those who like to think
That it's important what you drink
They haven't got an inkling what it's all about
They spent their evenings wasting
Decent drinking time by tasting
Drops of this and that, then spitting it all out.
They pass along the tables
Strewth, they even read the labels
Muttering things like, "What a shame
The cork has shrunk"
Or "fruity nose" or "too much tannin"
When they ought to get a man in
Who appreciates the chance to get drunk.


They waste their time describing
What they ought to be imbibing
Which is wine of course, although you'd never think it.
'Cos they use words like "young but promising, "
"Precocious," "full of fun";
You'd have thought they were going to adopt the stuff
Not drink it.
And at a meal these silly asses
Have a row of empty glasses
A different wine with every dish they eat.
Me, I mix whatever's handy
In a stiff, all-purpose shandy
Which goes very nice with fish or Shredded Wheat.

You can judge your wine by the quality of the vine
Or its colour, or bouquet or all that junk
But it all comes back to the falling over factor
And the fact that it gets you drunk

And there are those who take delight
Pronouncing all the labels right
They roll their r's and do those German glottals.
Me, I couldn't give a monkey's
'Cos the stuff for getting drunk is
On the inside not the outside of the bottles
So if you have a cheese and wine
Invite your friendly Philistine
Call me drunkard, call me sot
Or call me wino. What do I know?
You'll find me in the kitchen
I'll be giggerlin' and twitchin'
Having a sup and throwing up
Across your lino

You can judge your wine by the quality of the vine
Or its colour, or bouquet, if you insist…
But it all comes back to the falling over factor
And the fact that it gets you
Misty-eyed and mellow, gets you
Maudlin, mawkish, miserable and pissed.

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 09:36 PM

G'day JennyO,

Some years back, an early incarnation of Selectors played for a Catholic Fellowship dinner (at Quakers Hill ... ?). As there was a dinner served in the middle of the gig, we were invited to dine ... and told to grab a bottle of wine from a selection in the corner - bottles brought in by Fellowship members to be used as prizes in raffles and dance competitions.

We all avoided the bottle brought in by the Priest ... a bottle of "Orange Spumante" that had, apparently, been to more events than I've had hot dinners! However, the beeswax-sealed bottle of Botolabar organically-grown Chardonnay, which we did select, was magnificent! Gil Wahlquist produced some gems on his little Mudgee holding.

REgards,

Bob Bolton (trying not to laugh at the song!)

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 10:14 PM

I'm wondering if the Spumante we get here is significantly different than what you folks get where you are, or if I just have radically different taste in sparkling wine. I love Spumante (even Asti).

Yesterday evening JtS and I shared a bottle of Hillebrand Estates Harvest Gewurztraminer, made in Ontario, that we picked up at the duty-free shop on our way back from one of our trips up there. It was delightful.

Thanks for the heads-up, Van Lingle.

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 02:23 AM

CarolC
In Australia Spumante (or Spew-man-te) was VERY sweet. If you drank too much, it was inevitable that you would see it pass by again...

And Bob,
that reminds me,

There were a group of people who lived in a household together, some of who worked at a dairy factory - they could buy returned stuff near to its expiry date real cheap. They bought a large block of cheese - and to cut a long story short, they would take it to a party, and then take it home again, and put it back in the freezer.

It eventually disappeared, because when it started to go green, they used to cut off the outside and keep the circle going - until it became too small...

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: GUEST,Need in Florida
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 03:31 PM

Does ANYONE know where in Panhandle of Florida one can get Italian Swiss Colony America MUSCATEL.???? It is in New England New Yok But unable to find, locate or track down info as to Southern areas.

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 02:35 PM

I have discovered that I am allergic to the sulfites they add to most wines these days (at least what can be found in the US, even those coming from other countries).

I bought a few bottles of organic wine to which no sulfites have been added. I understand that sulfites do occur naturally in wines even when none have been added, but my understanding is that the amount is similar to what can be found naturally in fruit juices. So far, so good. I have not had an allergic reaction to either of the two organic wines I've tried so far.

I've been wondering how organic wines would compare to other kinds as far as taste, etc. is concerned. One of the wines I bought is a Riesling, by a company called Badger Mountain, which is in Washington State (USA). It's quite nice and very interesting. It's fruity and has many layers, and a lively sort of behavior in the mouth. It's missing a bit of bass note, but not enough for me to dislike it. It is pleasant and fun, and has a pleasant aftertaste.

The other one I've tried so far is a red table wine from a company in California called The Organic Wine Works. The bottle says, "a' Notre Terre" ("To Our Earth"). I don't know if they intend that to be the name of the wine, or not.

It's a lovely dryish wine, with a slightly smokey aftertaste. It's just a little bit reminiscent of a port, but much lighter and less stodgy. It is also quite lively in the mouth, and nicely astringent, and I don't find it to be missing any notes at all.

I also bought a white table wine from a California company called Frey. The bottle says "Natural White". I haven't tried that one yet. I think I'll wait until I finish the Riesling before I open it (I don't have a lot of room in my refrigerator).

The prices are not bad at all. All of the ones I bought were right around ten dollars US for 750 ml. I would probably buy less expensive wines if I didn't have the sulfite allergy, and I don't think I'll be drinking these wines in any great quantity. But it is nice to be able to have a little wine from time to time without having an allergic reaction.

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From:
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 01:37 PM

I want to melt candles using an emply Mateus wine bottle. Anyone remember the right way to do this? I bought candles at a head shop because someone there made a beautiful display using multiple colored candles and I don't remember how he did it. Help!

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 03:48 PM

First you have to drink the wine. That's the fun part. I recommend having some good spaghetti or lasagne along with it.

Way back in the olden days, when I tried to do what you're describing, I seem to remember that all I did was to stick a candle in the top of the (empty) bottle, light it, and allow it to drip all over the bottle. If you want a multicolored effect, I guess you would do this with several different candles of varying colors, all in the same bottle until you have the effect you want. Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 04:29 PM

I am also allergic to Sulfites.

I tried wine for the first time in 22 years last month. The shortness of breath was hardly discernable after 2 small glasses.

I tried Sweet William from NY

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: bobad
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 04:59 PM

Guest honeynougat

I have seen candles sold that drip in multicolors as they burn, look around.

If you are attempting to recreate the cafe/bistro/coffee house look that was popular in the 50's and 60's you may want to look for a Chianti bottle like this.

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 05:19 PM

Carol C, stay away from wines in cartons (some taste good to me, but my wife has a sulfite or similar problem). Most bottled California wine at $10 or more should be OK (without preservatives such as sulfites). Also Washington-Oregon-Alberta-British Columbia should all be OK.
Reporting of sulfites in food and drink is voluntary- I thought sulfites had to be listed, but not true- only if concontrations over a certain amount.
See warning notice by Food and Drug Administration: Sulfites

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 05:38 PM

Thanks Q. I don't buy or drink any wines that don't say "no sulfites added" on the label.

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: GUEST,Peter Woodruff
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 09:21 PM

Well, all you wine coniseurs have got it right. Loving wine for it's taste, aroma, and after effect? are just the reasons I prefer wine to hard liquer. I prefer Australian red and white wines by Yellowtail. I particularly like the Yellowtail shiraz. I know there are other Australian wines that I haven't tried yet, but guide me to better taste if you can.

Petr

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 10:13 PM

Yellowtail wines are a lot of fun. They're very lively. Boisterous, almost. I like their Chardonnay, but they contain added sulfites, so I can't have them any more.

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: jimmyt
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 10:19 PM

much of the sulfite in wine production is due to the fact that they rinse out the barrels after bottling with H2SO4 and if there is any residual after the barrel is rinsed it can produce small amounts of sulfites in the next batch.

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 03:13 PM

I've been enjoying European wines, myself. Some of the German white wines (Kabinett), French red table wines, and a few Spanish and Italian wines. I keep my purchases in the range between $5 - $10 a bottle and there are plenty to choose from.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 06:08 PM

A search for "Italian Swiss Colony" + Florida gets a connection at Italian Swiss Colony, Florida which does indicate a "Florida presence." Perhaps this is what Guest was looking for.

If a local distributer cannot be found, it may be of interest that a Wine Business Monthly article in May 2003, that announced the "legalizing" of direct to consumer wine shipment in Virginia, noted:

"The Coalition for Free Trade is assisting winery and consumer plaintiffs with five additional lawsuits, challenging outright bans on interstate wine direct shipments into New York, Florida, North Carolina, Texas and Michigan."

At least as of 2003, mail order purchase was not allowed in Florida. At that time only 23(?) states did allow shipments to individuals. I didn't find a current listing of which do/which don't.

An article at WINE WORLD ESTATES includes that in the 1990s:

"In the United States, wine was distributed in a "three-tier" distribution network. Most wineries sold their products to distributors, who typically sold dozens to hundreds of individual wine brands, as well as distilled spirits, beer, and non-alcoholic beverages to retail liquor and food stores and for consumption "on-premise" in restaurants and hotels. A distributor generally had the right to sell a brand within a specific geographic area and typically employed a sales staff, which serviced all classes of retail outlets. Larger wineries with multi-brand product portfolios would constitute a large percentage of a distributor's sales, generally employ a large sales staff, and have a competitive advantage at the distribution level."

(Note that "Wine World Estates" was a "corporate name" for the wine distributorship owned by Nestlé until sometime ca. 1995. It's not clear from this article whether it still remains with Nestlé. Corporate functions under this name probably centered on distributing and marketing numerous "brand labels.")

If there is in fact a difficulty getting a particular wine in a particular area, the above marketing structure is the most likely explanation. Distribution to retailers is controlled by distrubutors who have assigned regions, and who largely are given "monopoly control" of their region(s). Since the distributor may handle hundreds of wines, it's common practice for them to "drop" individual brands/varieties that don't maintain "market share," unless the item has an extremely high markup as might be the case for some ultra-premium (> $60 US/bottle?) wines. Retailers cannot sell what the distributors choose not to deliver.

In many similarly stuctured markets, the "drop point" may be as high as 10% of the group of "competing lines." Carried to it's extreme – as is not too unlikely – in a few years "cheap to moderate priced wines" will come only in "red" and "white," both will be made from cranberries, with artificial flavorings, "boosted" by methanol tailings from our surging alternate fuel industry. The "white" will be bleached, and the "red" will use "red dye No XXX" with an appropriate warning on the label.



1st-for-wine has an extensive list of links to info about Italian Swiss Colony wines available on the web; but I didn't see anything relating to retail sales in Florida. Additional info perhaps at wine devine.

The "last?" resort is to ask a retailer if it can be ordered for you.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: DougR
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 02:57 PM

My wine of choice these days is "Two Buck Chuck" Charles Shaw out of Napa, California. That shows you what an elitist I am.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: GUEST,redhorse
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 07:39 AM

jimmyt: If winemakers have been using H2SO4 (sulphuric acid) to rinse their barrels, I'd certainly avoid the stuff!
H2SO3 (sulphurous acid) has been used for centuries to sterilise barrels and stop wild yeasts spoiling the fermentation. Traditionally burning a bit of sulphur paper in the empty barrel which was rinsed afterwards (They were certainly still doing it this way in the 1960s when I worked one summer in a wine cellar in Mainz).
Adding sulphite to the wine is something else.

nick

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: number 6
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 08:21 AM

"Old Sailor" ... I can't find that vintage anywhere these days.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 09:40 AM

Where have all the winos gone?

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 10:08 AM

"Old Sailor" ... I can't find that vintage anywhere these days.


Ask jacqui.c--I think she has some on hand. ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: GUEST,Rumncoke
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 11:32 PM

I smile whenever I come across Sanatogen Tonic Wine. Not that I touch the stuff.

Quite a while ago now I heard an old chap declaring rather loudly that an American Battleship had been named after this wonderful beverage, but the name was made femenine - as all ships are she - so she was christened the Sanatoga.

Anne

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 05:48 PM

Speaking of sulfites, I have found out that there are wines that have actually had the sulfites removed.

This is what I understand about sulfites (from what I've been told and what I've read here and there)...

Most companies add sulfites to their wine as a preservative. Some companies don't add sulfites, but there is a residual amount of sulfite that is naturally found on the skins of wine grapes. This sulfite is not an added sulfited, and these wines have much less sulfites in them than the ones with added sulfites, but they do contain a very small amount. These wines are in the "organic" category and they are what I've been drinking (in very small amounts) from time to time, with much less adverse effect than the wines with sulfites added.

Just recently, at a Whole Foods Market in Cary, North Carolina, I learned that there are also "organic" wines that are not only free of added sulfites, but they have also had the naturally occuring sulfites removed.

I have been enjoying one of these completely sulfite free wines in the last few days, called, "Our Daily Red", produced and bottled by the Nevada County Wine Guild in Collegeville, California. It's a very pleasing wine, and quite delightful with several kinds of goat and/or sheep milk cheese (I have learned that I am not particularly allergic to goat and sheep milk), and especially accompanied with nicoise olives. I do find that I can tolerate this wine much better than the other kinds.

Another kind we bought, which I have not yet tried, is called Lodi Syrah, produced and bottled by Orleans Hill Winery in Collegeville, California. The prices of these two wines were $8.00 and $9.00, but I don't remember what we paid for which.

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Emma B
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 06:58 PM

Was given a great gift at the weekend a bottle of Fitou 2001 from
Chateau du Seigneur D'Arse
- it says it is "de généreaux aromes!" and "mis en bouteille a la Proprieté"
- I can't wait...........

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: bobad
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 07:37 PM

We recently indulged in a Lodi Zinfandel from Talus, it was quite nice and a special treat from the usual homemade fare that we've christened Chateau Plonk.

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 02:09 PM

Back in "Ye Goode Olde Dayes" (the mid-1960s)the wonderful one who became(and still is) hubby, and I used to find a Portugese Rose under the label Alianca. (told later this was a wine co-op--Alliance?--in Portugal). I found Mateus to have an unpleasant bitter aftertaste. But not Alianca. It was cheap, delicious, and had a pleasant edge of frisante(?)--not enough to be an actual "sparkling", but for me to say, "Is that bubbles?" the first time or 2 we tried it, and afterwards just to sigh with satisfaction when we had some. It seemed to enhance anything it was served with, a real plus in the day when we were buying the cheapest on-sale foods to prepare meals from. Haven't seen it in years. I think they also made a white. There was also a Rose under the label Douro(Bros? Fathers?) which we found enjoyable and inexpensive. And I, also, remember Cribari--cheap, tasty, several varieties. Once we found a Cribari champagne(before the days when area names of French wines were protected), but not as good as some other less-expensive sparklers. And once(summer of 1970) my mother, to celebrate a very special event, bought an $80 bottle of Taittinger which we shared between the 2 of us. wow......................       Tw

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 08:19 PM

Tannywheeler, it looks like your Alianca wine is still being made, although you might have to go to Toronto to get it. Here is a Google search for that particular wine...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Alianca+rose+portugal&btnG=Google+Search

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: DougR
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 12:29 PM

Charles Shaw (Two Buck Chuck) is alive and well in Arizona!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 10:49 AM

Is the Chuck Shaw (Two Buck Chuck) completely sulfite free, DougR?

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: number 6
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 11:15 AM

Szekszardi ... a Hungarian wine that got me through my college days. Haven't seen it around lately.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Allan C.
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 03:29 PM

What I want to know is: what ever happened to good ol' Boone's Farm Apple Wine? Back in the'70's it was a staple in the house I shared with two other guys. We certainly drank our share of BFAW, often buying it by the case. In fact, one of the best hams I ever cooked was marinated in it. A few years later, it was gone from the market shelves while the (IMHO) nasty strawberry version of it remained. A few other flavors surfaced for a while; but the apple wine never returned. Anyone know what happened?

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: pdq
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 04:42 PM

...here is a tribute to...


                                       Boone's Farm Apple Wine

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 05:37 PM

I just did a search on Boone's Farm wines, and what I learned is that they are "wine flavored citrus malt beverage". Hmmmm...

Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: jimmyt
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 05:50 PM

I had a couple cases of 2 buck chuck last year. It is a pretty good tasting $7.95 ish wine. One thing I noticed is that although it is OK when it is first opened it goes bad in less than 24 hours. It is a decent plonk.

I also find that Turning Leaf is on sale at Krogers for $5.95 which is certainly a $10 value. Emma has sharpened my wine discernment taste though and it is darn hard to find Nuit St George or Puligny Montrechet at a decent price! Way to go ruin a good thing, Emma! Grin.

Still a great value for people with sweeter tastes is Leonard Kruesh Piesporter, Spatlase or Kabanett. These are light delightful but fruity Reislings, they are cheap and available most anywhere (wherever there is a big supermarket) and a darn site more pleasent than Suter Home white Zinfandel.