BS: Obama does it again

Subject: BS: Obama does it again
From: michaelr
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 05:02 PM

AP - "President Barack Obama on Friday scrapped his administration's controversial plans to tighten smog rules, bowing to the demands of congressional Republicans and some business leaders.

Obama overruled the Environmental Protection Agency — and the unanimous opinion of its independent panel of scientific advisers — and directed administrator Lisa Jackson to withdraw the proposed regulation to reduce concentrations of ground-level ozone, smog's main ingredient.

The withdrawal of the proposed regulation marks the latest in a string of retreats by Obama in the face of Republican opposition. Last December, he shelved, at least until the end of 2012, his insistence that Bush-era tax cuts should no longer apply to the wealthy. Earlier this year he avoided a government shutdown by agreeing to Republican demands for budget cuts. And this summer he acceded to more than a $1 trillion in spending reductions, with more to come, as the price for an agreement to raise the nation's debt ceiling."

What is it with this spineless jerk? He does not deserve to be re-elected, having betrayed just about all of his campaign promises.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 05:13 PM

And you think he is not being "threatened" in some way to force him to comply?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 06:09 PM

Like 'Spaw said elsewhere: Obama has balls. One's the size of a pea & the other is real tiny.

Pretty damn discouraging. I never thought the guy was "The Great Black Hope", but I expected better things.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 06:51 PM

What do tehy say? "Politics is the art of the possible".

But it is disappointing even in the face of coercion.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 06:57 PM

When Republicans took the House, Obama's programs came to an end.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 07:26 PM

I am rather tired of the rhetoric being applied to Obama for not beating his head on the wall and, like King Canute, trying sweep the waves away from the beach!

Barack Obama is not dumb. He KNOWS what is going on, and he knows what can be done with a minority House and less than 60 votes in the Senate. How soon folks forget how much he did in the 1st 2 years, when he DID have some votes to work with.
"Yeah...but what have you done for us lately?"
The answer should be: "Well, I made proposal after proposal and had them voted down, even when they were almost identical to what various Republicans had suggested!"

I have not read the details of the 'smog rules' decision yet, but I doubt that he entered "spineless jerk" mode to do it. If *I* were in the White House and privy to all the discussions about all the issues, I might disagree with how he decided various things, but I also remember his basic positions on things, and I sure don't see any Republicans on the horizon that I think would cope with it all!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: michaelr
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 07:34 PM

What good is it to have "positions" if over and over you "bow to the demands of Republicans"?

GWB/Cheney were able to ram through their policies whenever they chose without giving a shit about Democrat's objections. Why can't Obama get anything done?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 07:35 PM

Face it!!! The right wing owns the media and is pumping out propaganda at an alarming rate... The country is headed right at break neck speed because people are no longer informed... They are brainwashed and the media plans on keeping them that way...

Yeah, sure, the truth is out there but Joe Sixpack doesn't have time so he assumes what he hears on the evening news is news... Hahahahaha... It ain't even close to fair and balanced... It is worse than any time in my life... So Obama has to deal not only with the right wing but the dumbed down American electorate, as well...

In other words, he's in a pickle...

The corporations want to go back to "no rules"... If they want to pollute our air, fine... Poison our water, fine... Don't pay taxes, fine... Everything we are being fed by the mainstream right wing media is all about what the corporations want...

And that's the way it is... Don't blame Obama... He's just trying to re-elected so he can pull off that suit and become "SuperPrez" and bust some balls... A 2nd term Obama will be a much different one than what we are seein' now...

Take it to the bank...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 07:55 PM

"What good is it to have "positions" if over and over you "bow to the demands of Republicans"?"

You ever see a bull fight? The bull thinks he is chasing that little guy with the sword...until...

We shall see. *I* think Obama is too smart to just be shrugging and surrendering.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 08:01 PM

GWB had a majority in Congress the first four years. He could ram things through.
A GOP majority in the House from 2001-2006.
The Dems had a slim (one-vote?) Senate majority from 2001 (part)-2003. GOP had a two-vote majority in the Senate from 2003-2005, then a 10 vote majority in the Senate through 2007.
The GOP controlled both houses for four years- the first four, the most important. The rest held up because they could go into a holding action.

Not much Obama can do unless he can rustle the hosses in the next election.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 08:10 PM

Exactly, Q... I mean, Obama ain't no dummie... He understands the math...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: kendall
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 09:12 PM

With unemployment at 9% he will not be elected. No other president has when it was that high.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 10:23 PM

It will unfold. He keeps on adding bricks to his pile of things well done. The bricks are small, but the wall is high.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 10:37 PM

Wanta bet yer Chevy on that, Capt'n???

Obama is going to turn the unemployment 100% on the Repubs...

Sit back and watch...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Songwronger
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 10:47 PM

Obama's delivering exactly what he promised, austerity. He promised to end the wars too, but that's another story. He promised us austerity and times are getting pretty austere.

What amazes me is how people fall for the "Republicans made him do it" argument. Both parties belong to the same team. They serve the banking elite. Obama promises austerity, then the Tea Party comes along and he pretends to cave in to them. The end result is austerity, exactly what he promised.

Obama and the reactionary right both want to gut the social system in the U.S., and they're doing it with sleight of hand.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 10:50 PM

"No other president has when it was that high."

tsk...FDR was. He used "look who GOT us into this mess" as a campaign line.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: michaelr
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 12:26 AM

Amos - bricks in the wall? I would suggest you re-think that metaphor ;-)

Songwronger, that's my suspicion, as well. He's looking more and more like a ringer.

My fellow progressives who want so badly to believe that Obama has something up his sleeve that will turn it all around are in for a serious disappointment.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 12:30 AM

I think BillD has it correct..Obama is much cannier than I thik anyone really understands. I hope he's just giving them enough rope to hang in the next election and then, yes! Watch him go into action.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: michaelr
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 01:27 AM

What powers will he have then, you think, that he doesn't have now?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 02:44 AM

If you want change, you will have to go the long way around.
America is a naturally conservative nation.

As I said years ago, Mr Obama is a creature of the system.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 09:52 AM

I truly hope those who have faith in Obama making a comeback are right. I will vote for him again as the alternatives are too hideous to think about. His intelligence and compassion are beyond question as is his desire. I felt the same way and perhaps even more so about Jimmy Carter.

What I don't believe and hope to be shown incorrect is that we are currently going through the early stages of some grand plan which will allow him to emerge with his previously stated goals, at least to some degree, accomplished. At this point I haven't seen any of the traits that others have shown to be present but believe me, and considering the Repubs running for prez, I am all for him and behind him.

Other presidents in recent history would have chewed the Congress up for breakfast and snacked the rest of the day on the entrails. FDR, Harry Truman, LBJ, Reagan, Clinton............Can you imagine LBJ being told he'd have to reschedule an address to Congress?

I wait with hope for change.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: GUEST,999
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 12:11 PM

One thing I have yet to understand is why he has not slammed a few of the bastards who are doing everything they can to stop him with their BS and bags of dirty tricks. If it were me--which it isn't--I'd have a few agencies with initials strangle a few of the fucks with their own intestines, pour encourager les autres. Time for the big O to play hardball. And one rule when you're forced into that position: make sure you are the pitcher. These people (Republicans, Teas Baggers and some Democrats) are doing their best to allow BIG money to take over, call the shots. Time for that shit to come to a screeching halt. Destroy a few and the others will see the light as it were. There are NO rules in a knife fight.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 12:20 PM

Huntsman is starting to look good, and I haven't voted for a Republican in a looooong time.

Obama doesn't trust his constituency to back him up --you know, the people who wanted CHANGE-- and if he doesn't find his spine soon, he'll lose even the "give him more time-- he'll come through" folks. It's not the middle of the road folks he'll lose, it's his base.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 01:50 PM

The former(?) CEO of Fox News nailed it when he said, "The people don't want to BE informed, they want to THINK they are informed."

Obama pushed back a major position speech to "accommodate" the Republican "debates". Smart move -- he'll know what they are going to do and say and he can then use it to push them into a corner.

Obama's been on the job two and half years. GWB took eight years to screw things up, and you don't unscrew anything that's been screwed that long overnight.

Austerity? This isn't austerity. Austerity is breadlines, not knowing where your next meal is coming from, patching your kid's pants, "making do or doing without."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: GUEST,999
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 02:02 PM

His stand regarding science is ok, but that's only one issue before the American voters. And for all the wind various TBs and Repubs make about it, not really THAT important to most voters. Initially, I'd thought TBs were a grassroots movement. They ain't. They've been bought and paid for. I hope they make more noise because they are causing moderate Republicans to wonder wtf they have been in bed with. And there will be the difference in the next election. I do however think O has to take a few of them, rip 'em to shreds and stop being so damned nice and 'honourable'. However . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 02:03 PM

Well Rap, I agree with you on the austerity but he could have been a bit more along the "hope and change" track if he wouldn't start negotiating from the middle.

As far as knowing the Republican candidates and their plans and positions, he won't know diddlyshit more after their debates then he does now. Frankly though, he should have picked a different date anyway rather than lose a pissin' contest. Sadly, right now the entire government is a series of pissin' contests and the American public is weary and very wet.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 02:08 PM

One problem is 'short memories' for voters. People seem to respond to what they hear and feel in the last week. If Obama says clever stuff right now, the Republicans get a year to attack it.
   Given the weird Republican field right now, and very little idea who they will nominate, and the uncertainty of everything else, I **suspect** that the Democrats & Obama are watching & planning. I can't predict how that strategy will work.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 02:17 PM

I'm with you there Bill but I would hope he might listen to some of Clinton's guys who seem to be offering help. Right now he could use a triple shot of James Carville.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 02:39 PM

Carville was one of the brightest guys I ever heard on TV.

Carville- "The last thing that the White House needed was to appear to cave in to the speaker (Boehner) and that's what happened."
The whole affair made Washington seem "fundamentally dysfunctional and broken."
Carville dismissed the possibility of Obama's proposals being enacted, reasoning instead that the president's policy ideas would help with his 2012 re-election bid.
"This Congress is not going to pass anything that the president proposes."

The Daily Caller, http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/01/carville-white-house-out-of-bounds-on-speech-kerfuffle/

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Amos
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 02:42 PM

Well the metaphor can go suck wind, but the point is that he does things, one after another, that tend to make things better, and lets the howls and hijinks stay in the zoo where they come from. Sure, he would do better copping the heroic stance, and maybe he will at some point when the critical decision window comes a little closer. Timing is everything. But if he does not, he is betting on the deeper inner sensibility of the American majority, whether wisely or not I can't predict.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 04:00 PM

[the tea potty] are causing moderate Republicans to wonder wtf they have been in bed with.

Bruce,

There is no such thing as a "moderate Republican". They disappeared off the face of the earth a dozen or more years ago. Dead as the proverbial dodo.

If any have indeed escaped this mass extinction, the few survivors have been struck dead and dumb or we'd have heard from them by now about the collection of radical, brain-dead, right-wing lunatics that their party has become.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Paul G.
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 04:44 PM

I have wished for Hillary Clinton to stand up and make a go of it in 2012. She will not, of course, take on a standing President of her own party -- too bad as she is a leader who appears to me to be unafraid to lead. Retreat to the center is no solution to the current American political morass. Change occurs at the margins -- and this shit needs to change.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 04:53 PM

I agree, Hillary would have been a good president, much better than Obama. In a class with Merkel of Germany.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Stringsinger
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 07:18 PM

The most serious breach is the construction of the Keystone XL Pipeline from Alberta to Oklahoma and Texas. The water aquifers will be contaminated and drinking
water will be also. The oil companies have won again.

This might be the turning point in Obama's re-election.

It may be that Obama wants to be a one term president. The pressure must
be fierce. The racism in this country in 2011 is unbelievable!

Hillary would not have been a good president in my opinion because she is too much of a hawk.

If you do some research of Hillary, you will find that she befriended Sam Brownback at the meetings held on C Street in Washington with a religious group called "The Family",a weird offshoot of a fundamentalist Christian orientation. Jeff Sharlet has written extensively about this inside group also known as the Brotherhood for Atlantic Magazine.

The Family and Hillary Clinton

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Stringsinger
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 07:24 PM

Obama must have an FDR moment to succeed. The idea that he has to rely on Republican votes for EPA or environmental protection (the Keystone XL) is not true; these decisions are the province of the Executive Branch.

He can summon the will to stand up for the environment and jobs without the Republicans having to approve of what he is doing. He may not get passage in the House but at least he would be re-elected.

Wall Street already has tossed its money to Republicans, this time around.
Obama has to go to bat if he wants a home run.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 07:45 PM

Do you who think Obama is just being too timid have any notion WHY he is not 'taking on the Republicans head on' and acting like FDR or LBJ?

SURELY Obama reads what we read and hears the TV pundits going *tsk, tsk* at his non-confrontational techniques. He MUST have mulled over the options in his head a hundred times. There are dozens of elements in any equation about dueling with this rabid bunch of far right-wing idiots....and I repeat, Obama is not dumb!

I have several ideas about what he is dealing with...both behind the scenes and what we can see. I just have a notion that he has plans. We shall see, hmmm? I certainly don't think that having MSNBC nudge him everyday is going to make him call them and explain his strategy.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: GUEST,999
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 08:02 PM

But keep in mind that strategy is what generals win wars with, and also lose wars with.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 08:26 PM

Bill, the Obama administration has been so in sync with the plot development of The West Wing, that I can only wonder if his next step is to make the no-compromise Republicans look snotty and selfish at some crucial point in time involving reporters, in such a way that it will be plainly, un-spinnably clear to EVERYONE that their priorities are NOT the people who voted for them.

He did say a while back that he'll stand up to them over the right issue at the right time. I'm not sure that will happen, but I'd welcome it.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 08:28 PM

I still like Obama and think he is trying to distinguish between what can be done without sacrificing his chances for the election, which right now are good, but...

The main negative for Obama is the huge amount of plain antagonistic and irrimitable hatred on the part of his detractors, not based on anything he has done but based on who he is. I've never seen people so willing to lie and repeat the lies of others about him.

I think he also is an intellectual thinker, which is not common among recent Presidents. Americans almost always interpret that as 'weak'.

On the other hand, the willingness that Obama and the current administration show to maintain or conform to the actions and policies laid down by the previous administration have given me pause, but the political jokes running as real men for the Reps gives me far greater pause. There are only two reasonable folks on the Right, Romney and Huntsman, and they are not high in the Rep polls.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Stringsinger
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 08:35 PM

Racism is a powerful factor here. When you look at his position you can see a black man against a ruthless white establishment. To discount this is to ignore history.

It will take a courageous Obama to overcome the obvious antipathy of the Republican Party having a black man as president. They were able to dismiss
Cain from being a front runner. Do you honestly think Rick Perry is pro African-American? Or Romney? Or Ron Paul?

There is Limbaugh, Buchanan, and others behind the scenes who have made racist remarks.

I don't blame Obama for being a little afraid, and don't tell me that this country is past racism.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 10:09 PM

Everyone just chill...

Obama picks the battles he can win... Stay tuned... He's abvout to win some... I predict that in 60 days his approval rating will be 10 points higher than it is today... I'd bet on it...

The next battle, jobs, is one where he can and will win... He puts out his plan... The Repubs put out theirs which is Reganomics on crack cocaine and Obama counters, "That's what got us into this mess" and the Repubs have no answer...

So, chill...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Paul G.
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 10:31 PM

He has to win the jobs "battle" -- and in a pretty big way. Historically the only way we've worked ourselves out of recessions this deep and long has been war -- ye old military-industrial complex writ large. Any big federal spending plan (stimulus part III) is DOA in the House... One can only hope that these mysterious "plans" for turning this around that others here have alluded to are legitimate, safe, effective and passable...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 10:55 PM

Don't bet against a stimulus packaged as investments...

The voters want a fix and this is the only real fix in the bag...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Paul G.
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 11:12 PM

I don't dismiss it (stim III) s a major piece of the President's proposals, I do doubt that it can be passed through the House. Not to mention that there has to be sufficient revenue to cover the cost. I would not count printing monopoly money as "revenue"...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 10:33 AM

""There is Limbaugh, Buchanan, and others behind the scenes who have made racist remarks.

I don't blame Obama for being a little afraid, and don't tell me that this country is past racism.""

Nor is it past assassination IMHO!! There must be half a million closet Klansmen who would pay for the chance to waste "an uppity n****r" (NB. Their description, not mine, just to forestall misunderstanding)

Obama would be wise to double his protection if the Repubs get the idea he's likely to win in 2012.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Stringsinger
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 12:04 PM

He has to go WPA or NRA (National Recovery Act). He has to get corporations to pay their fair share of taxes. He may have to go CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps).

Anything less than this will finish his re-election campaign.

He also has to stop the Tar Sands Keystone XL pipeline. Otherwise, environmentalists are just going to stay home.

"Audacity of hope" is being eroded every day and much of this is due to his compromises.

He better go big on Thursday otherwise people will yawn and stay home.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Paul G.
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 12:22 PM

I agree Stringsinger -- but it has to be a realizable program, NOT political theater designed to make the other party appear responsible if it fails to obtain sufficient bi-partisan support to pass. This will be his ultimate leadership test, and will certainly make or break his chances for re-election (IMO). Regardless of the covert or overt racism (which I agree exists) -- the man is the President of the United States of America. He needs to cut the puppet strings, stand up, and lead -- or his opportunity to do so will end in 14 months.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 12:37 PM

I don't think WPA or CCC are realistic... The "Infrastructure Bank" is, however, and he can go BIG here...

The difference is that with an Infrastructure Bank one is in a public/private partnership as opposed to adding government employees... It's is more salable...

Bottom line, Obama needs to be in the $1.3T range... That's what it will take... Minimum...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: GUEST,999
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 01:24 PM

Define 'public', Bobert. If by public it becomes a situation wherein government appoints the representatives, that's one step forward and two steps back. The problems is the way banks are operated. Don't put money in the damned things.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama does it again
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 04:13 PM

The bank is just a concept, brucie... It's just a fancy term for "spending"...

B~