BS: UK General election December 12 2019

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 01:50 AM

while on this theme, the good and the bad of the NHS. My wife had a hip operation due on 5th December. We were told yesterday that it has been postponed to 6th February because of lack of funds.

But for comparison, a little over two weeks ago my nephew went to his GP with bleeding from his bowel. They have discovered major cancer needing 20 inches of bowel removed, plus 10 lymph nodes and potentially part of his prostate and pancreas. He has a 6-8 hour operation today to remove this section and see what can be done.

So while he may not live through this, or if he does not for very long afterwards, the NHS is doing everything humanly feasible to sort it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 02:21 AM

I suppose I need to tie that last post more explicitly to the election. Ok, the cancellation of my wife's operation was explicitly put down to funding problems. I don't like it, of course, but we do recognise that the funding can't be unlimited, so we can tolerate some postponements as long as it is a small proportion of the operations. Last year there was a moratorium on all non-urgent operations, such as hip replacements, because of funding limitations. That is not acceptable. So we need to have increases in funding sufficient to prevent those. We are unlikely to have a repeat this year, but I suspect that is prevented more because the Government does not want that in the news during an election than because of anything else.

Then my nephew's operation. It hardly bears thinking about how much that would cost if we lived in the USA. Even with insurance, it might exceed a limit on cover. Promises that the NHS is not for sale do not impress me, because we have had lots of promises about lots of things that have not come into being. And any promise can be broken if there are financial issues, under the umbrella of 'taking hard decisions'. As a minimum I would want such guarantees to be written into laws so that Parliament would at least have to explicitly vote to overturn them. (And of course the NHS is not a single thing - it is possible to privatise aspects while claiming the NHS as a whole has not been sold.)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 03:20 AM

bonzo mentioned big tits swindon , is this a religous cult if so can i join, big tits swindon,
wav could you write a poem about big tits swindon

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 03:29 AM

"I thought better of you. I have not defended this."
Did you not suggest it might not have been rape ?
You and yours defend the behaviour of these scum-buckets with your silence - you do runners whenever their antics are pointed out
You present yourself as a Government supporter - you need to say why when you take into consideration the damage thay have already done to Britain

I watched with pleasure last night as the Tory speaker on Question Time was slated by speaker after speaker from the audience - she remained totally silent on everything too
That seems the only way that your Tories are going to win anything
Every time you open your mouths exposes a fresh horror for Britain

I really would think better of you if you actually participated in this discussion - this forum 9and the country) actually needs an honest opinion from a Tory Hman Being - god knows, there aren't ant in Westminster
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 04:12 AM

Meanwhile back in the real world it is all going swimmingly well for compo and his coterie of clowns?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1201591/general-election-jeremy-corbyn-video-labour-manchester-john-mcdonnell-liverpool-brexit
From their electioneering twaddle:
Labour will “borrow to invest” on an unprecedented scale.
Labour will shift the economic balance of power north
Labour’s borrowing will pay for itself

First they have to try a bit of conjuration to make the magic money tree a veritable forest. Good Luck with that one !

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 05:14 AM

I get sick of hearing from disaffected and militant ex-party members about what they think of their former leader. I don't want to know what some idiot who's been a Tory all his life thinks of Boris just now, thanks, or what a near-insane ex-Labour man thinks of Jezza (near-insane because no sentient being who has been Labour all his life could even remotely conceivably recommend voting for Johnson). These demented people make for colourful storylines but they merely inject a dose of shallow tabloid sensationalism, worse because the BBC, etc, legitimises them by the way they "adopt a serious approach." I'll make my own mind up from the mainstream campaigning about what I think of the party leaders, not from the bleatings of these idiotic self-marginalisers. You might have thought that the Beeb would learned from the fiasco of "giving an equal platform" to climate-change-denying frauds such as Nigel Lawson.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 05:15 AM

I really must wear my reading glasses

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 05:41 AM

Could your view be a tad jaundiced by Labour MPs recommending Labour supporters vote for the Tories?
This is quite a departure from the norm, even for labour! Hilarious.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 05:47 AM

"I get sick of hearing from disaffected and militant ex-party members about what they think of their former leader. "
Me too - especially right wing Israel supporters who backed Blair's 'Weapons of Mass Destruction bloodbath (suggest a trip to the current film 'Secret Society' will open a few eyes over that fiasco)

Isn't it interesting how see that the only thing these twots have to say about Corbyn's plan to alleviate the damage done to the less well off ois how much it will cost the taxpayer
Not unlike describing attempts to temporarily house Grenfell Tower survivors as "an attack on property ownership"
You've got to give it to these fellers - they certainly know where their priorities lie
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 05:49 AM

Not to be outdone by the Tories’ damaging coverage yesterday, Labour has had two candidate crises this morning. And it’s not even 10 am…

First out of the gate was LBC’s exclusive that their Liverpool West Derby candidate – a shoo-in at the election – has made a number of “foul-mouthed” posts against female politicians; including calling for a Tory baroness to be “hit the c*** where it hurts”, and another where he called Esther McVey a “b*****d”. Presumably McDonnell will defend him…

Then over in Clacton, Labour’s candidate, Gideon Bull, has just quit whilst denying she called a Jewish councillor a “shylock” in a council meeting. Bull also follow’s Labour’s Gordon candidate who quit yesterday after comparing Israel to a child abuser.

Full details and comments from the bastion of veracity Guido

https://order-order.com/2019/11/08/corbyns-candidate-crisis-continues-clacton/

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 05:54 AM

Asked if he would legislate to protect the NHS from US intervention, the PM said: 

We can do free trade deals with countries around the world but under us the NHS is not for sale. It’s not going to be on any kind of international trade negotiation. 
This is pure Loch Ness Monster, Bermuda Triangle stuff. 

The NHS, free at the point of use, is a fantastic service and we not only believe in it, but are investing more in it than at any time in recent memory and we’ll continue to do so.




which is a complicated way of saying no we won't legislate. Whatever we may believe at the moment, at a later date we or someone who comes after us can do what they like.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 07:47 AM

I really don't understand how anyone can believe a single word the GAP we have for PM says. From Turkey joining the EU to the election being forced on him by MPs not backing his plan, the words that run from his mouth like sewage from a drain are complete shite. Yet they keep supporting him. What is going on?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 08:07 AM

GAP?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: bobad
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 08:10 AM

75% of British Jews supported Labour following WWII.

7% of British Jews support Labour following Corbyn's election.

Let that sink in.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 08:22 AM

Just seen on BBC News that The Nicotine-Stained Man-Frog has announced that he can’t even be arsed to come up with an Election Manifesto for the BrexShit so-called ‘Party’.

He really is a lazy c**t, isn’t he? Why would anyone with a working brain vote for him?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 08:24 AM

No idea either what GAP meant, but the free dictionary acronyms has some possibilities

Great American Products
Generally Accepted Practices .. maybe not.
Global Atmospheric Pollution
Grant Awards Program
Gay and Proud .. don't think it's that
Group for Alternative Policies ... perhaps
General Area Plot.

======

But the most odd one seemed to be their claim GAP is an acronym for 'Integrated Taxonomic Information System.' Don't see it, myself.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 09:23 AM

Greased Albino Pig, keep up boys.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Mossback
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 10:17 AM

Yet they keep supporting him. What is going on?

Perhaps the brain-dead reality denying 40% of the U.S. population that still support The Trumpshit would have some insight.......

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 10:22 AM

But despite all the plots he is still President and likely to be re elected. Obviously not all share the views expressed on this forum.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 10:36 AM

Jim:
From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 03:29 AM

"I thought better of you. I have not defended this."
Did you not suggest it might not have been rape ?
You and yours defend the behaviour of these scum-buckets with your silence - you do runners whenever their antics are pointed out

NO! I did not suggest it might not have been rape. I made clear that it was rape, as the defendant had been given a 5 year sentence following a re-trial.

My short post was not that easy to misunderstand, but you have done so twice now. Try to read, and think, before responding with any more insults.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 11:05 AM

A huge new YouGov poll of over 11,500 voters shows the Tories leading Labour by 14%, with the Lib Dems only 3% behind Corbyn – a result that, if repeated in the election, could see Boris win a three-figure majority.

The poll also shows the SNP are on course for a big win in Scotland, taking 42% of the vote and all but three of the Tories seats. YouGov also sees the Lib Dems beating Labour in their former Scottish heartlands.

In even more dire reading for Corbyn, YouGov polled personality traits for him and Boris, and found the PM’s likeability is 25% higher than Corbyn’s.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 11:37 AM

Here is the result for my ward in 2017

  Royston Smith  - Con   - 21,773 = majority 31
  Simon Letts    - Lab   - 21,742
  Eleanor Bell   - LD    -  1,421
  Kim Rose       - UKIP  -  1,122
  Rosie Pearce   - Green -    725
  

Everything is going to hinge on whether the Brexit Party can take more votes from Conservative than the LibDems can from Labour. So I either want LibDem to do spectacularly well to increase their votes nearly twentyfold - I think we can agree that looks unlikely - or do far worse then the Brexit Party.

National polls will not greatly influence my voting decision.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 12:08 PM

Just looked at your MP's voting history. He's not very nice, is he?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 12:12 PM

Just looked at your MP's voting history. He's not very nice, is he?

Nope. And he came bottom of a survey by the Independent based on how active they were in terms of interventions, questions submitted, etc.   His response? Someone has to be bottom of such lists.

And when he has responded to emails, he is usually exceptionally patronising.

So all in all, I repeat: Nope.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 12:30 PM

"Try to read, and think, before responding with any more insults."
If I mistook what you said I apologise Nigel
Hw about you commenting on the calibre of MPs like the feller who resigned out your Prime minister who treats women and non-whites like second class citizens - (to ve used and abused -- in that order)
Sorry again
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 12:31 PM

Ok .......... it is perhaps not my place to interject on this, but I think Jim you owe Nigel an apology.

If you READ his first post he states quite clearly, at least to everyone else, he is not supporting Ross England.

You, in your attack everyone who disagree with me mode, completely disregarded this.

Engage brain before engaging fingers perhaps !

I shall now sit back and wait to be attacked in a similar fashion.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 12:56 PM

"but I think Jim you owe Nigel an apology"
I hope we cross-posted Rag - I just have

"he is not supporting Ross England."
Delighted to hear it - he should be demanding that his (The Tory Party) contact the victim and offer their sincere apologies (and maybe some recompense) for that fact that it was one of their leading members who deprived her of her day in court
I have no doubt that, if it was a leading Labour figure guilty of shuch behaviour he would be in the from those demanding that a pillory be set up outside Westminster
It seems fairly obvious that those at the top have been fully aware of these shenanigans for eighteen months e and the only reason they have seen the light of day now is that there is a dodgy election in the offing
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 02:14 PM

Louise Webberley, Labour’s candidate in the Leave-voting seat of Totnes, is not exactly going for outreach approach; sharing material on Facebook saying “lower income, less educated voiceless people are so much easier to control.” Labour came second in the seat in 2017…

Her forthright approach is unlikely to gain her much support.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 03:10 PM

A link to the rest of the post could well be enlightening I suspect.

Someone is WELL known for selective posts and lack of links.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 03:16 PM

You would not be having a go at Mr Shaw would you?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 04:30 PM

Once again, our Extreme Right-Wing Plant has failed to indicate that his post is a direct quote from his boss...

https://order-order.com/2019/11/08/labour-candidate-poor-less-educated-easier-control/?fbclid=IwAR1m_gggNsCMqFr-qFyx52ivadpjRQpv

Disgusting dishonesty. But then, what else would we expect from the Extreme Right Wing but dishonesty and deceit?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Mossback
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 05:51 PM

OK, lads - all of yis copy this out 100 times:

I promise I will not engage with or respond to Iains' puerile provocation.

Provocation puerile Iains' to respond or with engage not will I promise I.

etc......

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 05:58 PM

Ignore him. He's not worth it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 11:04 PM

I do wonder why Johnson needs six weeks to read the report on Russian meddling in our elections when he believed it would only take our MPs forty-eight hours to study and assimilate all the implications of his EU Withdrawal Agreement?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 03:47 AM

A lot of the press is reporting the latest YouGov study of voter intentions. Rather less point out that the 'The fieldwork, conducted from 17 October – 4 November' was before the campaign started. So it is a useful baseline to judge the effectiveness of the campaigns against, but like all polls so long before the actual vote, it needs to be handled with considerable caution.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 03:52 AM

In fact, checking a few dates, the fieldwork began before 'Super Saturday' and much of it was before an election was announced. So it is a bit of a mixed bag of intentions: some taken when the PM was still asserting that his deal would get through by 31 Oct without an election and some when it was clear it would not and we were having an election, for example.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 04:15 AM

no overall majority seems to be favourite odds

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 05:37 AM

Not sure about that, Sandman. If you look at actual betting shop odds, they think a Tory win most likely. I won't post a link as such, because the figures change all the time, but sites like

https://www.oddschecker.com/insight/politics

can show the current odds. These may or may not align with what pundits reckon.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 06:18 AM

"Failinng to deal wityh Antisemitism" seems to be a running theme in this election
Shortly after the claim was manufactured Muslim leaders complained to the Press that there was significant anti-Muslim problem in the Tory Party - the Tories have so far refused to address that problem
THIS IS HOW THE TORIES DEAL WITH SUCH CLAIMS

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 06:26 AM

And following that, in the news today Tory peer rounds on Conservatives criticising Labour over antisemitism for their own failure to tackle Islamophobia

And, also whitesplaining.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 06:29 AM

There was a 19% swing to big tits swinson's party in Thursday's Croydon council bye bye election - a good pointer. I know of many tories and labour people who will vote lib dem on Dec12!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 06:37 AM

A manufactured claim would hardly have sufficient grounds for an investigation by an official watchdog. The national front is the only other political organisation to be so investigated. Denial in the face of such compelling evidence seems the hallmark of a ???. As also is trying a spuruious counter argument of whataboutism.

The bookies favourites line up as follows:
PaddyPower Majority Odds (Previous in Brackets):

    No overall: 10/11 (5/6)
    Tories: 11/10 (6/5)
    Labour: 14/1 (14/1)
    Brexit Party: 150/1 (150/1)
    Lib Dems: 150/1 (150/1)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 06:55 AM

I know it is banging my head on a wall but would you please stop with the sexism, Bonzo.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: peteglasgow
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 07:53 AM

i find it amazing that we are discussing, yet again, labour's response to their supposed anti-racism. or even the tories non-attempts to deal with anti-muslims in the party. when the huge elephant in the room is the hostile environment for foreigners which has been tory party policy for about a decade. their disgusting attitude to the windrush generation is an ongoing scandal yet gets very little press coverage these days. official tory party to attack british citizens! we don't even need to start on grenfell....

(i just read (again) about 'corbyn's anti-semitism' and (again) the first piece of evidence wheeled out was him liking a painting 25 years ago. it's clear that with the help of a few anti-labour people this is one piece of shit they threw at corbyn which seems to have stuck. i've never seen or heard anti-semitism in the labour party/trade union meetings i've been to and had any such bigotry come out i am confident it would have been immediately jumped upon by the majority of anti-racists in the room. by the way - i never saw those guys in the picture as jewish - just thought they were caricature greedy capitalists)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: peteglasgow
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 08:18 AM

'writing in the telegraph, david blunkett despairs about the bullying, anti-semitism blah, blah f****g blah.....' as an ordinary labour party member i despair at the way that prominent labour party members take it in turns at election times to offer their support to the tory party by sticking the knife in Labour. despair all you like blunkett, hodge, mandelson or whoever, but is it too much to ask that you despair in the comfort of your own conservative clubs? don't you think of the morale of thousands of party members who are working hard to get rid of the tories and how depressing it is to read your sour grumbling . to the telegraph. for money.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 08:20 AM

Fair point, pete. But the reason it is being discussed is that the Tories see it as a major weapon against Labour. Make no mistake (as the other thread would have it), this is not because the Tories are particularly bothered about the Jewish community. Their primary interest is making Labour less attractive to all the well meaning non-Jewish people who rightly think antisemitism is appalling. That there is a Jewish community which has, in large part, voted Labour in the past and may not this time is a welcome bonus, but it is not, in itself, as significant. Those in London, for example, are more likely to switch from Labour to LibDem, not Conservative, especially if they are remainers. This is not about the Conservatives winning votes, just trying to make Labour lose as many as possible.

What you say about the Tory attitude to foreigners is quite right, but it will need Labour or other party to force that into the news against those parts of the media that support the Tories and/or Brexit and are quite happy to keep the focus elsewhere, thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 03:00 AM

The problem with that DMcG is that a lot of people have that same attitude towards foreigners. If Labour switch the focus to that it could win the Tories some votes :-(

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 03:27 AM

Labour, You have a problem!
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-antisemitism-corbyn-watson-formby-jewish-ehrc-investigation-a9006466.html

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 03:45 AM

Richard Ferrer - editor of pro Israeli Jewish News
There goes that link between Antisemitism and the Right Wing Israeli Government again - every accusation confirms where this nonsense of "antisemitism with the Jewish People removed" is coming from
Jim Carroll

Libel lawsuit and criticism
In February 2018, Jewish News lost a libel case brought by Baroness Warsi over allegations that she has sought to excuse the actions of Islamic State terrorists. The article also claimed she had objected to action being taken against British Muslims who murder and rape for the group, which Warsi said was “untrue and offensive”. Jewish News accepted that the article was false: it apologised and was ordered to pay damages of £20,000 and legal costs.[3]

In August 2018, the Jewish News Foreign Editor, who had worked for the paper for six years and been editor on a Jewish news TV channel, took personal leave after describing the paper's coverage of Jeremy Corbyn as "repulsive" in its use of "vicious personal phrases" to "trash" a "dedicated anti-racist". The Foreign Editor said that the paper had an obsession with the Labour Party, leading to "overheated rhetoric", and failed to give a voice to Jews who think differently.[4]

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 06:07 AM

100!