Scottish show disrespect for dead pope

Subject: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: mindblaster
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 04:59 AM

I was disgusted to hear that when asked for a minutes silence in respect of the pope at a football match in scotland. The crowd started to jeer and boo. Horrible scotch bastards

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 05:20 AM

Hearts manager aren't happy with the actions of some of thier supporters either see here

It's not a case of "horrible scotch bastards", it's just a case of a minority of mindless people providing an oppertunity for attacks such as yours on a nation (as well as on football). I'm English - enough said already...

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 05:22 AM

While I agree with your sentiments Mindblaster, I'm afraid I find it a bit on the sweeping side, also it should be Scots bastards. It is strange that so many people are surprised at the sectarianism in Scotland, it is in some parts as bad as that found in Northern Ireland, and the Rangers and Celtic football club nonsense is not limited to Glasgow. We still have separate Catholic and Protestant education in Scotland so the prejudice continues. I can only apologise for the boorish behaviour of some of my [unfortunately] countrymen on this one, but please remember they are a minority.
Giok

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: GUEST,Alexander
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 05:41 AM

Guest Jon provides a link to the newspaper report on the incident.
Six arrests for the jeering, read it! Six!
I, like Giok, can only apologise that there are 'some' morons among our fellow Scots (as indeed there must be in any country)
However.
How very disrespectful to an entire nation Mr Mindblaster.
First the exaggeration that 'the crowd' started to jeer and boo, following with the phrase 'horrible scotch bastards'.
What a pity you apparently display the same kind of prejudice (and arrogance) as those six - only against another nation instead of a faith.

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: Alba
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 05:49 AM

I too think some brands of Scotch are pretty horrible but certainly not all of them:>)

That being said, I do, as a fellow Scot, agree with Giok's post.

Jude

(Mudelf maybe this belongs below the line? just a suggestion...ta much)

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: Leadfingers
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 07:07 AM

Scotch ?? The Islay Malts are too peaty for me !!!

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 07:19 AM

It doesn't sound like disrespect for a pope. It sounds like people quite rightly taking offense to the misuse of an announcing system. Why not a minute of silence in aid of world hunger? Why not a minute of silence as we ponder our manifold sins?
It really has nothing to do with the Pope.

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: Stu
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 07:26 AM

Lay the blame at the door of Sectarianism - certainly not soley a Scottish blight. Every nation without exception has its own tribe of bigots, yobs and morons.

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 07:41 AM

And would the Scots boo and hiss, in their usual winging way, at a moment of silence for hunger ? Yes, it does have to do with the Pope and narrow mindedness, A History of a nations bigotry is not an excuse for bigotry,

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 07:51 AM

I repeat, what business does anyone have to insist that a crowd of people pay respect to someone they have no direct relationship with. That respect must be offered, not solicited.

I think such an announcement, if it really happened was outrageous.

This thread sounds like a troll.

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 07:57 AM

why does it sound like a troll? what garbage. Is that how you explain away everything you are previously unaware of? Of course it happened. Announcements before sports events after the death of someone eminent/related to the sport/victim of tragedy are commonplace.
My opinion of the few who participated in the hissing is one of non interest. Why the outrage that a handful of people out of thousands did something idiotic.
They aren't representative of the majority of supporters there.

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 08:06 AM

Announcements are one thing. Requiring people to show respect is different from giving them the opportunity to show respect. Sounds like you have a problem with people who refuse to behave like sheep.

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 08:09 AM

sounds like you have a problem with understanding how it is politer to keep your mouth shut when surrounded by thousands of people who want to pay their respects.

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 08:10 AM

You seem to be online right now. Hows about naming yourself and getting on the Chat line?

Or are you satisfied to remain a nameless trolling lurker?

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 08:12 AM

yes thanks quite satisfied. Are you equally satisfied being a named wanker?

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 08:15 AM

equally satisfied as yourself. You should take a page out of the Pope's operating manual and let the truth set you free.

I will now observe you are a coward with an attitude. You may now take a minute of silence (if you are able).

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 08:21 AM

You did pretty good, Guest. I popped onto Chat just in case you had anything to say, and you were silent there as well.

G'day!

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 08:28 AM

idiot.

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 08:43 AM

This should be in the BS section.

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: The Beast of Farlington
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 08:44 AM

Isn't it amazing and sad the number of threads that descend into fights?

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: Brakn
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 09:08 AM

It should now be in BS. Some only post in BS.

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: Brakn
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 09:09 AM

Thanks whoever did that.

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 09:15 AM

You are quite right of course, robomatic, no-one has the the right to insist that a crowd shows respect. Likewise no-one in the crowd has the right to upset the vast majority. It is all a question of give, take and good manners. Manners are simply the rules by which the peace is kept, pretty much like netiquette. As is displayed perfectly above, when boorish behaviour occurs fights break out.

It is pretty much taken as read that opposing sides in any sport respect each others national anthems, for instance. Is it too much to expect that courtesy be extended to other occasions? I don't think it is myself but your are of course entitled to your own views.

I can only finish by repeating that it is bad manners and 'yobish' in the extreme not to respect the wishes and sensibilities of the people around you. Unfortunately while there are those justifying a lack of respect for other peoples feelings we will be stuck with the uncaring attitude we are plagued with today:-(

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: GUEST,Dominie
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 11:09 AM

Not 'Scottish' but 'Hearts fans'.
Hearts is the common name for Heart of Midlothian football club.
Hearts fc is owned by a Lithuanian called Vladimir Romanov.
He has brought to Hearts a number of Lithuanian footballers.
The predomonant religion in Lithuania is Catholic.

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: Den
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 01:13 PM

Ah but the predominant number of Hearts fans are not catholic. I agree though, that its unfair when everyone gets tarred with the same brush, so to speak. Observing a moment of silence before football matches in respect of the death of certain individuals is commonplace and usually these observances are respected by almost everyone in the crowd. I am mindful of the silences recogniized before games when Brian Clough past away, after the death of the Queen mother and the two little girls Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman who were abducted and murdered in Soham. I for one think that it is a wonderful respectful tradition and I think that it is very sad when people disresect this usualy out of ignorance. Den

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: EagleWing
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 01:18 PM

I can only apologise for the boorish behaviour of some of my [unfortunately] countrymen on this one, but please remember they are a minority.

Well said, Giok. That minority of Scots is no more boorish than similar minorities of English "fans" or those of virtually any other nation.

Wherever you are and whatever the occasion there are always some idiots who get their kicks that way. In fact some of the threads on Mudcat display a few people of that type.

Frank L.

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 01:19 PM

Sort of a microcosm of Mudcats little problems with a disrespectful minority!
Giok ¦¬]

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: EagleWing
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 01:34 PM

"I repeat, what business does anyone have to insist that a crowd of people pay respect to someone they have no direct relationship with. That respect must be offered, not solicited.
I think such an announcement, if it really happened was outrageous.
This thread sounds like a troll."

On the contrary, for once (to my great surprise) I think it is Robomatic who is trolling.

I would have no problem in standing for a silent minute to remember those who are hungry, those whose lives are threatened by tsunamis. I will stand for far more than a minute on a day when the holocaust is remembered and on "Remembrance day". I'm not a fan of the Pope and I'm not a Roman Catholic but I would stand for a minute out of respect of the millions who mourn his loss.

The loutish behaviour of those six people was just that. It was loutish. If they claim to have done it because of their Protestantism then they shame the Protestant faith.

You say "It sounds like people quite rightly taking offense to the misuse of an announcing system." Wrong. It sounds like people who are so crassly biggoted that they are unable to respect other people's views. It's like people who would jeer at a passing funeral, or who would tear up and burn the Stars and Stripes on thanksgiving day, or who would yell antisemitic slogans at service of remembrance for the holocaust.

Frank L.
(Sadly because I have always thought that Robomatic was one of the good guys.)

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 01:36 PM

Didn't surprise me one bit -- who the hell thought it would be a good idea to request a minute's silence for someone many Scots believe their enemy? Lots of Scots are strongly anti-Catholic. It will be interesting to see what kind of respect is shown when Ian Paisley goes west.

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: Den
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 01:39 PM

I highly doubt that the disruption was caused by only six people. Six may have been arrested but I don't think that six people could cause much of a disturbance in a football stadium.

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 01:40 PM

Hardly the same league BPL Ian Paisley is a fraud and is not even a Reverend in the ordained by the church sense. In fact anybody who doesn't rejoice when he goes doesn't see the joke!
Giok..

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 01:47 PM

Alas, Giok, for many it's exactly the same league (trust you're not referring to the SPL ;o)

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: ard mhacha
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 02:04 PM

that should read sick people, the majority of the Hearts supporters   joined in the insults,I seen the incident on TV. I have been in many a crowd of football supporters who paid respect for various dignitaries who had passed away.   I remember being a spectator at Fulham in 1963 when a minutes silence was observed for President Kennedy, this is a dignified way to pay respect, the people who question this would be welcome with the morons who follow Hearts FC.

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: Tam the man
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 02:12 PM

What has the Pope got to do with Scotland, or Scottish football.

Scotland is a Protestant country, and the Pope has nothing to do with Scotland. I don't mind what religion you are, however what gives you or anyone else the right to tell the Majority of Scotland what to do.

And what about the Cletic supporters when the Queen mother died they were quiet for 38 seconds, it strange what short memory they all have.

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 02:22 PM

So you would have fought on the side of the English at the battle of Culloden then Tam?
G

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: Den
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 02:22 PM

If that is true of the Celtic fans then it is every bit as disrespectful.

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: Tam the man
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 02:56 PM

If I was at Culloden I would be fighting for Scotland, And yes that is True about Celtic.
Anyway what has Culloden got to do with the Pope or Scottish football, it sounds as if you haven't got a case.

Tom

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: Tam the man
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 03:06 PM

Oh another thing why was Celtic fans who are supposed to be aginst secteriisom (pardon the spelling) and bigorty singing IRA SONGS, what has that got to do with football, Celtic are a SCOTTISH FOOTBALL CLUB and not an IRISH CLUB.

Anyway this is getting a bit stupid, you are entitled to your opinions and I'm entitled to mine, so lets agree to disagree, John.

Tom
And if you don't then who's the bigot.

I don't even like football.

God Bless Scotland

The Pope was a Polish man who lived in Italy telling us Scots what to do.

Enough is enough.

Tom
Let bygones be bygones

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: Big Tim
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 03:53 PM

The problem isn't that Scotland is a "Protestant country", it's that quite a number Scottish Protestants are bigots (the vast majority aren't). England too is a "Protestant country", yet the minute's silence for the Pope was impeccably observed by the crowd at the Newcastle/Sporting Lisbon game.

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 04:00 PM

We Geordies have impeccable manners.

(dons asbestos undies)

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 04:11 PM

I think that a request for a moment of silence is something that should be made only on rare occasions, and only where is is clear there will be completely unanimous support. It's becoming far too common now. When a practice like this becomes common, people start to ignore it.

The Pope's death was long expected, and it's not some huge tragedy. Best not deal with it at a sporting event.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 04:14 PM

Well you see if Bonnie Prince Charlie had won at Culloden Scotland would now be a Catholic country, so it's largely a matter of luck that you happen to live in a country where the monarch is the head of the Church of England, and protestant succession is enshrined in the British constitution. Then again if Henry the VIIIth hadn't fallen out with the Church of Rome over the little matter of them refusing him permission to divorce one of his wives, then England might also be a Catholic country. So you see Tam religion is neither fixed nor that important. Whereas respect is universal and non sectarian.
Giok..

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 04:15 PM

The majority of sports fans attending events in the UK don't agree with you joe. It isn't used on a daily basis.

There are always a few eejits who have trouble keeping their lips closed, but they are the same ones who probably get thumped on a Friday night after the pubs close for the very same reason. Should we ban drinking just because a minority have trouble handling it?

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 04:29 PM

What the referee did by cutting the silence short was not what I would have done, I would either have stood there until the troublemakers were shamed into silence by the sensible members of the crowd, or I'd have led the teams off the pitch, and refused to bring them back until the silence was observed, he gave in to the numpties.
G..

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 04:36 PM

"at a football match in scotland. The crowd started to jeer and boo"

You expected differently from a passle of thugs such are football fans?

Are you maybe also surprised when a duck quacks?

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 04:48 PM

I suppose customs are different in different countries, but I think demanding a moment of silence at a sporting event is appropriate about once every five or ten years. And support for it should not be by a mere majority - it ought to be well-nigh unanimous. It was appropriate to have a moment of silence for the victims of the World Trade Tower. I suppose it might have been appropriate for the tsunami victims, although even that might not have worked. But for an old priest who died of old age, I don't think so.

Of course, I'm one who hated standing for the National Anthem before I could watch a movie in a U.S. Army theater.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 04:54 PM

I understand what you are saying Joe, but don't think time limits between minutes silences are appropriate. If something 'big' happens that affects the world and people wish to mark that event, they should be allowed to.

We can't plan how often these 'big' events occur.

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: Once Famous
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 05:15 PM

Robo, I usually don't have a problem with most of what you say, but the guest pummelled you to a point where all you had left in your arguement was to accuse him of being a guest.

I think the Guest was right. I would be embarrassed by the behavior of my countrymen for not taking a moment to honor the memory of a revered world leader to many.

and Joe, so sorry you were so inconvenienced to stand for a playing of the National Anthem. It takes all of about a minute.

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: The Curator
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 05:21 PM

Tam the man do you feel the large Catholic community living in Scotland has no place there ? should they shut their mouths and not follow their faith ? I am not being funny, but in your words Scotland is a Protestant country and the Pope has nothing to do with Scotland.I am an Irish Republican and proud of it, but if the Queen who is the head of your faith died in the morning and I was asked to observe a moment of respect I would have no problem with that. As a mark of respect to the death of a lady and as a mark of respect to all my Protestant friends of whom she meant something to.

Subject: RE: Scottish show disrespect for dead pope
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 06:16 PM

Silences at football matches should be to do with football matters. I too would have found it profoundly difficult to maintain silence for a man responsible for so many things I thought wrong and backward. I would find it difficult to maintain a public silence for anyone associated with religion. And why should I? Belief is a choice I choose not to make, or honour.
I took my hat off and stood silent for the passing of Stanley Matthews