 sj |
||
|
||
BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
|
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: kendall Date: 21 Sep 07 - 03:43 PM I often agree with Rev. Sharpton, but to call 6 guys beating up one white guy a "fight",, that's horse shit. Furthermore, it plays into that old myth that one black guy is ok, but if there are two or more, then they like to cause trouble and act like "Niggers". I've heard that all my life. I was in the service in the early 50,s, and white guys actually believed that. Now, what I saw was just the opposite. It was the white guys who went looking for trouble and getting thrown into jail. We had 4 or 5 blacks in our ship and they didn't even socialize with each other.I never saw them walking the streets looking for trouble. My point is, it's this sort of thing that keeps that myth alive, and believe me, this is not the end of this. Those white boys will get even, and where does it end? The KKK is still alive and just waiting for an excuse to come out from under their rock. I don't give a damn who you are, what your history is, whether or not you have been insulted, no one has the right to throw the first punch. Finally, those idiots who hung the nooses need some lessons in rising above redneck stupidity. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Peace Date: 21 Sep 07 - 04:18 PM The whole thing has been one fuck up after another. No part of it has been handled properly, and thus, the media show. I can't see where anyone is saying 'excuse the behaviors of the Black guys'. But let's not get all so full of ourselves that we forget there are some White guys who had done some bad shit in this. Who's facing court? RIGHT. Same shit, different day. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Peace Date: 21 Sep 07 - 04:19 PM BTW, the nooses were reported to the school admin. The bloody board overrode the principal's proposed punishment. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: SINSULL Date: 21 Sep 07 - 04:41 PM The demonstraters were met by an 18 year old truck driving drunk who was dangling a noose fitted with handcuffs from the back of the truck. It was an attempt to start a riot but to the demonstrators' credit, they called the police. He was arrested, charged with drunk driving and instigating a riot. More charges to follow. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: 3refs Date: 21 Sep 07 - 04:53 PM Are we allowed to say "It is your right to do whatever you like, provided your not breaking any laws, but in reality, it's probably not a good idea". |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Lonesome EJ Date: 21 Sep 07 - 05:11 PM Peace, what was the Principal's proposed punishment? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Peace Date: 21 Sep 07 - 05:32 PM "The following morning, three nooses were discovered hanging from the tree. Jena's principal learned that three white students were responsible and recommended expulsion. The board of education overruled his recommendation, to which Superintendent Roy Breithaupt agreed. The punishment was reduced to three days of in-school suspension.[3]" |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Peace Date: 21 Sep 07 - 05:39 PM Also from SNOPES. It's worth reading. Cuts out some of the bullshit. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Greg B Date: 21 Sep 07 - 06:12 PM Lonesome EJ, you don't have to be an attorney to know the definition of assault (or to look it up). All you have to be able to do is read. Nor do you have to be an attorney to know that hanging a noose in a tree as an action directed to an African-American, or painting a swastika on a synagogue, or burning a cross on an African-American family's lawn are all defined as 'hate crimes' in these United States. For very good reasons, rooted in both the present and the past. None of the above are 'free speech.' Not in any sense of the word. And you don't have be a genius to understand what the above actions mean in our society, and what the results are likely to be now that certain groups have decided that they're not going to have their necks stood on (or stretched) any more. You just have to have a lick of common sense. So what's YOUR problem in understanding it? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 21 Sep 07 - 06:25 PM From what I can find out, the principal proposed expulsion- this was reported in the Alexandria, LA newspaper. A school district committee changed this to suspension for three days. Mychal Bell's previous battery convictions would have been sufficient to net him serious felony charges anywhere on the December incident. His football ability was all that kept him in school; he no longer was on the team (eligibility expired, academic or other reason?). The other defendants posted bail, but the judge, citing Bell's criminal record, kept the amount for him at $90,000, which the parents refused to post. The District Attorney reduced charges to second-degree battery, and offered a plea agreement including a suspended sentence, but Bell's family refused and went to the media. A judge threw out the conspiracy charges and referred the case to juvenile court, but let stand a conviction for aggravated second degree battery. The State's Third Circuit Appeals Court threw out the conviction on Sept. 14 because he should not have been tried as an adult. The case will be tried in juvenile court unless the district attorney is successful in an appeal. The noose incident, etc., happened a year ago, and the beating took place in December. In the meantime, the arson that destroyed the school's main academic building, seemingly related to the situation, is still under investigation. Looks to me like justice was proceeding slowly, but that often is the case in American courts. If charges result from the arson investigation, look for the whole thing to be blogged to death and tried by outsiders again. Condensed from news items in Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, MSNBC online. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: pdq Date: 21 Sep 07 - 06:33 PM The following information is presented as fact. If it is not, please show evidence. The Tree: It does not exist anymore. The city fathers decided to have it cut down and removed. There are pictures of trees on various websites by they are staged photos, some with one or more people. One shows "a tree on campus", but not "the tree". The Incident: Three White kids were charged with putting two or three noose-like pieces of rope in a tree. They were all suspended (in house?) for three days. What they did was rude but it did not violate any specific ban on such actions and it did not break any laws. The Beating "The white teenager who was beaten, Justin Barker, 17, was knocked out but walked out of a hospital after two hours of treatment for a concussion and an eye that was swollen shut." Justin Baker said (sworn testimony): "Justin Barker, 17, testified that he had just come out of his high school gym with his girlfriend walking ahead of him on Dec. 4 when they turned to avoid a group of black students. "I turned my back and somebody hit me, that's all I remember," Barker said. Other students said (sworn testimony): "When I heard a black boy say something to Justin, I turned my head and I saw somebody hit Justin," one student wrote in a statement. "He fell in between the gym door and the concrete barricade. I saw Robert Bailey kneel down and punch Justin in the head. … Then Carwin Jones kicked him in the head. … Theo Shaw tried to kick him so I pushed Theo Shaw down. I also saw Mychal Bell standing over him." Phrases like "stomped him badly," "stepped on his face," "knocked out cold on the ground," and "slammed his head on the concrete beam" were used by the students in their statements. The Beating happened three months after the noose incident and and both the Federal Prosecutor and the local District Attorney said the noose incident and the beating of Justin Baker were not connected. The Injuries: "Justin Barker was taken by ambulance to LaSalle General Hospital's emergency room, arriving at 12:25 p.m., according to court documents. A report from the ambulance company stated Barker 'denies any pain other than his eye'. Once in the emergency room, Barker told medical personnel that he had been 'jumped by 15 guys' and was unsure of what he had been hit with, according to the emergency physician's record in the court file. The record noted an injury to Barker's right eye requiring follow-up medical attention and injuries to his face, ears and hand. A Computed Tomography scan of Barker's brain showed no abnormalities, but there were reports of him losing consciousness during the attack, according to hospital records. Barker was discharged about 2½ hours after being admitted to the ER. Later that night, he attended a ring ceremony at the school, where he was presented his class ring by his parents, something Kelli Barker said her son really wanted to be a part of, even though he was still in pain." "All that keeps being said is that he was just in the hospital for a little bit and not really hurt," Kelli Barker said of Justin. "I thank God he wasn't hurt more than he was. But we have medical bills to show that he really was hurt." The Punishment: Mychal Bell was convicted of aggravated battery. That is exactly what he did. What is the big problem? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: katlaughing Date: 21 Sep 07 - 07:11 PM pdq, those seem to be the "facts" as presented by the prosecution only. I'd like to see what the defence claimed to refute them. Also, ever heard of how inaccurate witness statements can be ala the blind men describing an elephant? I do not doubt what happened, just how it happened, something none of us will probably ever know. The white kids are going to say one thing and the black kids another. The DA and Fed. pros. are also going to declare the "facts" in a different way than the defence attorneys will. Also, you did not cite your sources. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 21 Sep 07 - 07:46 PM Katlaughing, what you are saying is that law enforcement and court systems are phony, prosecutors, defenders and witnesses are liars, and justice is not blind but biased. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: katlaughing Date: 21 Sep 07 - 07:52 PM Not really, Q, just that they present the "facts" as will serve them best...they may also NOT present them if they feel it would be better for their case. Unless of course you meant that in an ironic fashion, in which case I agree with you! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: pdq Date: 21 Sep 07 - 07:54 PM One website said that The Beating was witnessed by over 40 students, all gave sworn testimony that appeared in court. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: katlaughing Date: 21 Sep 07 - 08:14 PM What website? Please include a link. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 21 Sep 07 - 08:44 PM What is wanted is the Court record- not who saids- The testimony is a matter of record. Newspapers and court records mention witnesses, some of whom gave testimony, but the total number would have to be an approximation. I doubt that anyone counted them. The number probably was considerable, considering the place and time, but many would deny being there. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Bobert Date: 21 Sep 07 - 08:46 PM Yeah, whereas the "noose" is very much the symbol of white were/are willin' to do to "uppity niggers", it ain't the only terror that was used in the South during Jim Crow days... 'Bout 30 years ago I had kinda, ahhhhh, broken into the 14th Street train station in Richmond, Va.... It had been closed for dacades, fallin' into disrepair an' bein' the curious little scavenger I was spend a couple evening's sifting thru stuff and came accross two books, both of which I still possess... These two book, written in long hand, described all the various "accidenst" that the Richomnd work/rescue crew had to respond to... Most were minor... Derailments, ect.... An occasional broken bone but over the 2 year period I found no less than 4 enties were "Negro males, age 20 or so" were found "dead on the tracks, having been run over by a train"... Now I ain't trying to bring this discussion into a purely emotional one but I'd like for each of you folks who have trivialized the "noose" to visualize about being tied to a railroad track with a train just a minute away... I don't believe that white people understand just how much terorism as been brought down upon black people in this country... This stuff doesn't just disappear... The stories are passed down... The terror every much still exists in most of the South ***today***... Yeah, sure, this makes white folks uncomfy... Tough... Do something to stop it other than rationalize why it's okay for white kids to terrorize blacks kids with symbols that are so hate filled that they make swazticas (sp) look like benign little doodling... Hey, for God's sake, wake the heck up, white America... We need to confront the demon that is us... Yeah, lots of folks here goin', "Okay, BObert jus' off on one of his rants" because these folks don't see themselves personally alligned with the white kids who put up the noose... But we are if we gfail to stand up and say, "Nooses = Hate" and do the things that are ***required*** to bring about forces that say in no uncertain terms to the rednecks among us, "Your values are UN-AMERICAN, and if you continue to show them in such a vile manner, we will stick yer dumbass self in jail..." But wait... We need to take it a step further... These kids need not only to be in jail but they also need to be ***habilitated***.... No, not rehabilitated because they have never known anything but hate... We need to start from scratch with these kids as if they were drug addicts... Use the same kinds of treatment modalities that are used on drug addicts.... Why??? Because they are addicted... They are addicted to hate... These kids need help... But as long as the grown ups (haha) are also addicted to hate, this ain't goin' happen soon... But it needs to... Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Riginslinger Date: 21 Sep 07 - 09:00 PM "...I totally disagree with you on your take on Morris Dees. The man is completely committed to fighting racism and inequality without any self-aggrandizement..." Kat - I guess we just disagree on this one. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Lonesome EJ Date: 21 Sep 07 - 11:41 PM Who has "trivialized the noose" Bobert? I agree with Peace that the Principal of Jena High was on the right track with his punishment. Nor did I, or anyone else commenting here, call the use of the noose "free speech" as Greg B implies. We don't have to re-establish the fact that black people are, and have been, the targets of the worst treatment imaginable. The point I'm making (and yes, Greg, I grasp the tenets of your argument although I don't buy it)is that a symbol, no matter how negative, does not justify violence against an innocent individual. And neither does slavery, nor 140 years of segregation, nor unequal sentencing, nor any other cause near and dear to the most noble of civil rights leaders. And you certainly don't pin your aspirations for these noble ideals to the sleeve of a group of violent punks who may well have had nothing but hate motivating their actions. Martin Luther King was a champion of Non-violence for pete's sake! His son may claim that Martin would condone this rally on Bell's behalf. I believe King would have been ashamed of Bell's actions, and would have had the strength to disassociate himself from, and condemn, the violence on both sides. Nooses? He faced police dogs, firehoses, log chains, and worse. And never did he excuse violence from his people in their struggle. He knew it would kill the movement faster than any number of nooses. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Peace Date: 21 Sep 07 - 11:51 PM Folks, I don't see that anyone is condoning racism, either by Blacks against Whites or Whites against Blacks. (And if anyone is, then PFO.) What is under discussion is unequal treatment under the law. And if it isn't, it bloody well should be. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: katlaughing Date: 22 Sep 07 - 12:38 AM Fair enough, Riginslinger. LeeJ...well said. I don't for a minute believe MLK would have condoned the violence, either. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: GUEST,Guest Date: 22 Sep 07 - 01:11 AM What I have the most problem with is not the facts, whatever they may be, but how people are responding to these incidents. These 6 boys; the facts should be heard as best they can and the court should do the best it can to find the answer. The three white boys should have been charged with a hate crime for the noose incident. It seems everyone is dividing into racial camps. I am white, and I do not believe, regardless of who did what in that town, that blacks should be treated one way for what happened; yet the white boys who hung the nooses; hardly any action is taken; and life goes on? Are we whites going to sit back and just have blacks protesting (why aren't more whites protesting?) that in small Southern white towns hanging nooses from trees is wrong and treating crimes differently based on race is wrong; and yes! I don't care if it is three months apart; the two incidents are connected and a clear sign of racial tension. If you have a tree, and the answer is not finding an answer but just cutting down the tree, is that really an answer? No! The answer is learning to live together in harmony. I left a small Alabama town when I was 18 in 1976. When I left there, there was one movie theatre. The whites still sat downstairs while the blacks sat in the balcony! God only knows what would have happened (whisperings of KKK) had they dare sit downstairs! This is why I left Alabama ... and this was in 1976!! Many years after Selma and supposed "civil rights reform." There are many good people in the South that are not racist. But when nooses are hung in a school and no one appropriately punishes those boys, you underpunish one group and overpunish another (or perhaps you look at the reasons that fight happened; does anyone here really believe that fight just "happened" without being incited by *something*?? read the Snopes.com article!), you are creating racial tension. Or maybe one of those boys did deserve greater charges than the others. Let the courts sort that out. I agree, if someone, regardless of race, has prior battery convictions, it is going to make matters tougher. However, we also don't know the circumstances of those battery convictions! It is hard to get fair justice in a small, white, Southern town. Read To Kill A Mockingbird. Did you see the interviews on CNN? The special? It brought out sides of Jena that many may not know ... that the town is divided in half ... if you live in one half, you are okay and likely white; if you live on the other half, you are most likely black and banished and the threats of KKK, they don't even have to be whispered in a small town like that. I lived that life and I know all about it. Mychal Bell's parents probably didn't "refuse" to post $90,000; they probably simply didn't have the money! Did anyone read the snopes article about the a black student in Jena attacked by white kids armed with beer bottles? Why weren't they prosecuted?! Only one was, with a misdemeanor. This pretty much says it all about the noose: http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/shipp/lynchingsstate.html Lonesome EJ, I *NEVER* get jokes like that in my email box. Maybe it's the friends you hang out with? Why don't you speak up and TELL them it's not okay? Maybe because to you it doesn't seem so bad? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Lonesome EJ Date: 22 Sep 07 - 03:10 AM Thanks Guest,guest for the guilt-by-association attack. Your courage is manifested by your little anonymous name tag isn't it? Unless you are living in your Mom's basement and Mudcat is the extent of your social sphere, I suspect you understand exactly what I mean about the casual racism that exists in society. The people I'm speaking of are often intelligent, well-educated, principled individuals. They are often people successful in the business world, and many are decent people who I am proud to call friends. They are not defined by racism, any more than you are defined by your sanctimoniousness. I grew up in a similar racist environment to yours, an environment of segregated schools and neighborhoods, and counted no blacks as friends until college. I was emersed in that environment long enough that I know I have prejudices that I may never fully be rid of. But I am not so burdened with shame that I am ready to excuse any behavior in the light of past iniquities. Your poster boy, I fear, has feet of clay, and much effort will have to be put into polishing up his resume before he can qualify for hero status. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: GUEST,Chris Date: 22 Sep 07 - 03:54 AM Maybe if these 6 guys went to Jail for awhile they would send a message to other black youths to fight 1 on 1. If it was a normal high school fight there wouldnt be 6 guys kicking a guy thats knocked unconscious. When I was high school yes 15 and 16 year olds got in fights all the time, but this jumping someone is bullshit. If it was 6 white students that jumped 1 black student it would be a hate crime and the NAACP would want them in jail for a long time and tired as adults. Yes blacks were treated bad in the past, but the idea that they get a free pass when ever they do stupid shit, is just that stupid.... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Riginslinger Date: 22 Sep 07 - 08:47 AM "What is under discussion is unequal treatment under the law. And if it isn't, it bloody well should be." Peace - You're right, that what's really at stake here. When the DA brought those outrageous charges, somebody should have done something about it then. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Alba Date: 22 Sep 07 - 10:04 AM Then again Riginslinger there is the 'Law' and there is 'Justice' Sometimes the system works in harmony and one reflects the other but sadly a lot of the time....one has nothing to do with the other unfortunately. One conclusion I have reached quite quickly on this issue is this. At no time, ever, should any white Person regardless of their age anywhere in this Country be led to believe that hanging a Noose from a Tree is a "Prank" It is one of two things. 1. A Hate Crime 2. The actions of a person or persons who are either extremely uneducated or some sad soul(s) who could be seen to fall under the category of a person(s) who are/is unable to grasp the gravity of their actions due to diminished capacity. I do not believe that any of the 3 white students from Jena High are uneducated or could be put under the heading of being 'not responsible for their actions' due to diminished capacity. May I suggest that if I, an immigrant to this Country from Scotland 10 years ago, can fully appreciate the horror behind the symbolic Noose hanging in a Southern Tree then...how could anyone that was born and raised and/or live in the Southern States of the US or throughout the rest of this Country not know the hatred, horror and fear behind this symbol. Ignorance, childish prank or complete insensitivity to other's feelings are not an acceptable reason for making this gesture imo. As I say the one conclusion I have reached personally, out of the many issues on both sides involved in this controversy, is that the act of resorting to using a historically well documented foul symbol of Racial hatred, a symbol which screams Murder. The murder of many Human Beings because of their skin Color. is and will remain to me an act of Hate. I am still looking at the many other issues involved in this Controversy but on this one particular fact that has emerged I feel very strongly. The 3 Students that hung those nooses on that Tree at Jena High should be held responsible for committing a Hate Crime. Maybe this time round it would be better to go Global rather than Local and take this particular issue to the International Court of Justice in the Hague. Maybe it is time to take this issue out of this Country and onto the bigger World stage. Just a thought and as I said earlier this is my own personal opinion on just what I see as the tip of the Jena iceberg.
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: SINSULL Date: 22 Sep 07 - 11:16 AM "Mychal Bell's previous battery convictions would have been sufficient to net him serious felony charges anywhere on the December incident" Sorry but given the questions surrounding his recently overturned convictions I have to wonder about the validity of these. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: SINSULL Date: 22 Sep 07 - 11:18 AM Any doubt about the meaning of the nooses? Check out the "Strange Fruit" thread. The three should have been expelled and would have in any State where I have lived. This is not a prank. It is a death threat. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Bobert Date: 22 Sep 07 - 11:47 AM Sorry, Lonesome, EJ, if you felt I was personally attacking you... I think you have a good heart but I also think that we may have different opinions about the threat level of the "noose"... I, as well as others, see it historically as a threat... But beyond that, it has also been historically a threat which has been carried out... There have been lynchings in the South in my life time... Black people fully undestand what the "noose" means... Yeah, I am a follower of Dr. King... I have been arrested peacefully in several demonstartions over the last 40 years... But with that said, I also understand the concept of "self defense"... If a man is angry with me and shows me a knife, yeah, it can be argued that the knife is a mere symbol until he cuts me... I don't buy that argument... Samwe with a gun... Same with anything that is used to hurt, maim or kill... To me, the "noose" fills that bill... I agree 100% with GUEST, guest that the white kids should have been brough up on frlony hate crimes... This would have most likely ended it where it started and sent a clear message by the adults in the community that Jim Crow don't live here anymore... Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Riginslinger Date: 22 Sep 07 - 12:27 PM Frankly, I'm a little suspicious about the concept of "Hate Crime." It seems like the system is trying to condemn someone for what they are thinking. One could argue that hanging the nooses was a threat, and try to make something out of that, but I'm not sure how you get to the actual intent of the noose hanging without a confession. On the other hand, I would certainly agree with the principal's original punishment. I don't see how the superintedent et al were justified in changing that. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: katlaughing Date: 22 Sep 07 - 01:13 PM More about hate crimes: click. And, clickety. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 22 Sep 07 - 01:39 PM Mychal Bell's record of violence cannot be ignored or whitewashed. His request to be freed while an appeal is being reviewed by the judge at a juvenile court hearing was refused. Like all juvenile court proceedings, the hearing (Friday, Sept. 21, La Salle Parish Courthouse)) was closed. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Bobert Date: 22 Sep 07 - 01:43 PM Well, Rigster... One can think about puttin' up a "noose" 24/7 fir his or her entire life... Fine... (Well, not really...)... It when the thinkin' ends and the acting begins... Hey, I'm sure everyone has thought about some real dumbass stuff... I know I have... But what occurs is that I have this little debate within me and as long as I don't do the dumbass stuff then, ahhhh, all is well... But if I were to do the dumbass stuff then I sho nuff would have to be willing to suffer from the consequences... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: katlaughing Date: 22 Sep 07 - 02:15 PM If Mychal Bell was charged as a juvenile in the previous cases, how did they come to light now? Or, was he charged as a juvenile? Was that why they tried him as a an adult, so they could bring up his past record, if it even works that way, I don't know? I thought juvenile records were always sealed. Did someone "leak" them? just wondering. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Peace Date: 22 Sep 07 - 03:02 PM Excellent opinion piece here. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: John Hardly Date: 22 Sep 07 - 03:29 PM Too bad these guys lost to gansta rappers. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Riginslinger Date: 22 Sep 07 - 05:04 PM "But if I were to do the dumbass stuff then I sho nuff would have to be willing to suffer from the consequences..." But what was it they did? It might have been dumb, but it didn't hurt anybody. Like I said, if somebody took it as a threat, that's what they should have been punished for -- not thinking. If it had been the other way around, and black kids hung nooses in a tree after white students sat there, it wouldn't have meant much of anything at all. If people want equal treatment under the law, they have to settle for equal treatment. If we want different laws for every group in the country, we're going to have one hell of a lot of laws. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 22 Sep 07 - 05:54 PM Mychal Bell's juvenile record. (Only the proceedings are sealed, the charges and the results are public record). Bell committed battery on Christmas, 2005. He was on probation following this assault, when in Sept. 2006 he was adjudicated (juvenile conviction) for two violent crimes, assault and battery (Sept. 2), and criminal damage to property (Sept. 3). He prevously had been charged for criminal damage to property in July, 2006. Another adjudicated case exists, but I haven't seen any information. He was still allowed to play football! He was convicted for second degree battery for the beating of Justin Barker on December 4, the fifth crime. The probation was in effect during these crimes, to end in to January, 2008, when Bell would be 18. (From the Alexandra-Pineville (LA) "The Town Talk." Abbey Brown and reporter Bob Tomkins, Sept. 22, 2007. Town Talk I am surprised that bail was offered to a person on probation and in light of the subsequent crimes. It looks to me like the Attorney General bent over backwards to offer it, although it is permitted in certain circumstances under the Louisiana code. School authorities apparently ignored and covered up the criminal record because of Bell's football ability. The football coach was not informed until late, and kept quiet because the school authorities had. Following the refusal of bail, C. J. Cary, of warfamily.org, VA, said the next demonstration should be held at the Governor's Mansion in Baton Rouge. Report by Abbey Brown, "Town Talk," September 22, 2007, in "The Town Talk," Alexandria-Pineville newspaper. Bell Again Denied Bond Looks like the rabble-rousers may invade again. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Peace Date: 22 Sep 07 - 05:57 PM Looks like the rabble-rousers actually live in Jena. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 22 Sep 07 - 06:10 PM Sorry, left a gap in the first link- Town Talk LA (and don't nobody mention cutandpaste) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Greg B Date: 22 Sep 07 - 06:19 PM Well of course the n***** was allowed to play football! Ain't no cotton to tote in Jena, so he had to make hisself useful, and besides, now as the football teams is innegrated, they've figgered out that the n***** was useful after all, even if he ain't invited to the parties after they catch the winning touchdown pass at the Homecomin' game. Sheeit. Well, 'lease it was a white boy that threw it. Maybe he wouldna wanted to come anyways, as it was all Skynrd and Fabulous Thunderbirds on the CD player. (We won't talk about how them steeroids someone's been slippin' the n***** might have sumptin' to do with them con-vittions.) And yeah, Dr. King was into non-violence...look where it got him. Shot dead by some cracker. Non-violently sit under the 'white tree' at George Wallace high school in Jena, and look what it gets you: a noose. Don't tell a man to be non-violent after your kids threaten to lynch him and for their punishment have to pick up litter for 3 days. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 22 Sep 07 - 07:20 PM Oh, well, no sense trying to talk to a nutcase. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Charley Noble Date: 22 Sep 07 - 08:18 PM All very sad but there is national focus on this small town and just maybe the forces of hate will dive deep for another decade of so. Unfortunately the issue of racial hatred in the States is never a done deal. And future generations will have to deal with this afgain in a few years. Only the names will be changed. This is probably not my most insightful post. Anyone want to fight? Charley Noble |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Riginslinger Date: 22 Sep 07 - 09:19 PM "...the forces of hate will dive deep for another decade of so." Charley - I don't want to fight, but I think the forces of hate are out there all the time, and it runs deep, and it's not confined to one side. When we see teenaged kids doing things like this, we can only assume they're carrying out the projected attitudes of their parents. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Peace Date: 22 Sep 07 - 11:24 PM The issue is law, not race. As long as folks turn the issue into that of race it detracts from the true crisis to do with Jena. What is under scrutiny, and rightfully so, is the American legal system. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 23 Sep 07 - 12:25 AM Peace, in the last case, Bell was convicted by a jury- it was not judge alone. To those who want to make a racial case out of it, the people of Jena, not just the legal system (it would have to have convicted him regardlss of make-up considering the history of the accused) must be blamed. The jury was all white, therefore it was 100% bigoted and tromping on the poor black. His criminal record, however, - four previous adjudications- can not be ignored, and conviction should have resulted regardless of the jury make-up. With the decision that the case should have been handled in the juvenile courts, a new trial will be held unless the decision is reversed- which it can be if the crime is deemed serious enough. The remaining five of those charged all posted bail (one had $138,000 as the sum). That, of course, is is not what has to be raised; in most jurisdictions 5-10% of the fee is sufficient for a bondsman to handle the case. Anyone can post it except those with criminal convictions. Why didn't the civil rights folks who make so much noise post it for Bell? Did they push him into refusing to post bail in order to push their agendas? The others have not faced court yet, but unless they have prior convictions for crimes, if convicted they may get off with light sentences and remission of criminal record after a period. Why did Bell not post bail when he had the opportunity? It looks like he wanted to get a brouhaha started- he did. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: GUEST,BILL Date: 23 Sep 07 - 12:41 AM Well said Q, but some people want feelings involved in law. You at least know that law doesnt work on feelings alone. I hate to drive the speed limit because I like the feeling of speed. So what would happen if I get too many speeding tickets, I would get my license pulled. That guy had a long history of fighting and should be tried as an adult. Does someone hitting another person change the damage to that person because of age when we are talking about 1 year, no.....put him in jail for awhile maybe he learn a lesson and maybe he wont but at least he wont be punching people in the back of the head.. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Riginslinger Date: 23 Sep 07 - 06:45 AM Peace - I agree, it is a question of law. The authorities need to insure equal protection under the law. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy From: Leadfingers Date: 23 Sep 07 - 10:15 AM I'll try for a 1ooth on most threads with NO regard to race OR religion |
