BS: Wild Canadian Politics

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Peter T.
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 02:20 AM

er, and Canadian business does best, how is that? We have practically no research and development; the core resources are owned by the United States; and Ontario is practically on its knees before a dying auto sector.

The only reason why Canada has not yet fallen into the pit is because of government banking regulations restraining the financial sector from being as greedy as their southern compatriots, spurred on by the neo-cons whose last bastion of power is Stephen Harper and the rest of his dinosaurs.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: gnu
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 07:28 AM

Well... I see by my last post and by counting the empties this AM that it was ME who was wild last night. Sorry about that. I'll try to stay on the thread topic and try to tone down a tad.

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Peter T.
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 07:39 AM

Good of you to admit it. We could all use more self-appraisal.....

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: bobad
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 11:03 AM

The following is a letter that was sent to the Governor General by one of our members. I am sending off one of my own to add my voice to the sentiments expressed therein. If anyone wishes to do the same the GG's email address is: [e-mail]. The correct way to address her is:
Her Excellency
the Right Honourable Michaëlle Jean, C.C., C.M.M., C.O.M., C.D.
Governor General of Canada


Dear Excellency,

I am a graduate student in Kingston, and I am writing to you today
because I am worried about the current state of democracy in Canada. I
support the plans for a Liberal / NDP / Bloc coalition. I am not, to
use Mr. Harper's words "Un-Canadian", and I am certainly not afraid
that including the Bloc threatens Canadian soverignty. Indeed, I
resent the suggestion that Quebec is not somehow part of Canada, and
that the Québécois have a dangerous and separate agenda. We are all in
this economic crisis together, and I beleive Mr. Duceppe, as in
intelligent man, understands this. The Bloc Québécois serve a vital
need in our parliamentary system. They have every right to be included
in the coalition.

Another worrisome issue, perhaps more so than the Bloc, is Mr.
Harper's "strategy" should your Excellency allow him to prorogue
parliament. Please don't allow him to spend the holiday season gearing
up his propaganda machine, which is designed to frighten Canadians
with the spectre of a "socialist coup" and a "separatist agenda". How
is spending time getting Canadians riled up and polarized good for our
country? Right now Canadians need real solutions, and real
representation, not attack ads and scaremongering. Stephen Harper is
too concerned with protecting his own ego and his own right-wing
interests to fight for what ALL Canadians need right now, which is
stability and sound economic policies.

The majority of Canadians voted against Harper last October. That
their votes were split between four parties should not necessarily
mean that the ONE party representing the right gets to dictate the
future of our nation in this time of uncertainty. As an educated,
informed citizen of Canada, I implore you to take a stand against Mr.
Harper's fear-mongering and strategies of divison. Giving the
Conservatives time to bombard us all with vitriolic soundbites serves
nothing but the short-term interests of a rogue government clinging
desperately to power. Give the coalition an opportunity to govern
means giving all Canadians a fighting chance to implement real,
meaningful change. In the end, I think that's what 62% of us voted for
in October. It's time.

Yours,
Stephanie Jowett

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: meself
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 12:57 PM

I think the GG will have to do what the Prime Minister asks. We can't expect her to over-rule the top elected official in the country. If she does as he requests, she will appear cautious, prudent, and perhaps, to some, timid - but if she were to deny his request, she would leave herself open to the charge of partisanship, and would thus bring discredit to her position. And that would be the sort of thing that could provoke a real constitutional crisis.

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: GUEST,Joe Kebecker
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 01:01 PM

It's all about Quebecs retaining power and control over Canadian Politics and money, got nothing to do with democracy....

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Jim Lad
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 01:08 PM

Probably wise, Meself.
Let them cool off for a month, vote down the budget and take it to the people. The problem with that though is that the Liberals have neither chosen a leader nor do they have the funds for another campaign. The aeroplane is still in the shop but I think the tank was half empty when they had it towed.
Note Mike Duffy doing some serious backing off yesterday when he finally realized it was promoting the separatist cause.
Ed: Australia has a different voting method and are more prepared for a coalition for that reason. When I was there, you were required to vote and had to rank your preferences in order.
I think if you do it right you win a T-Shirt.

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: gnu
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 01:37 PM

I thought the GG had no real say in it.

In any case, I should think that shutting down until the New Year is exactly what they all want... a long vacation at the taxpayers' expense. Nice work if you can get it.

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 01:41 PM

People's reactions to this can be easily predicted by the following criteria.

Do they normally vote Conservative? If so, they're very upset about it.

Do they normally vote for anyone else BUT the Conservatives? If so, they're delighted.

I'm delighted, needless to say... ;-) Brian Mulroney (and Mike Harris) finished the Conservatives for me for all time. I can't imagine ever supporting them again in the forseeable future. (I did support them enthusiastically the first time Mulroney ran for office.) Their economic and political philosophy of corporate greed, de-regulation, and privatization of public resources is exactly what has put the entire world into the great financial crisis it is in right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Jim Lad
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 01:55 PM

Finally figured it out.
If you get the most votes and the most seats then you win but should have no say in how the country is run.
However, if you lose, you win because collectively you won more than the winners who are really the losers because they didn't win enough even if it was more than the losers hitherto known as the winners.
Makes a lot of sense if you're a loser!
So what a governing party has to do if they want to win is to call an election and lose. This works even better if winners get more votes than they did the last time because ...... damn! I knew it when I came in here... where's me pills?

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Beer
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 02:07 PM

If I smoked this would be the time to do a splif then I'll understand this a lot clearer.
Lol Jim, that was great in this big mess.
Adrien

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: gnu
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 02:16 PM

Maybe the government could enter a public-private-pot-partnership... a P4! Hehehehe.

Oh, yeah, right... they did that already... forgot... sorry.

Say no to P3s... and P4s.

Now, if a drug company grows pot for cancer patients, would that be an MP3?

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 02:16 PM

You're seeing it directly through your partisan mindset, JimLad (as are we all). It's been frustrating the hell out of a majority of Canadians for some time now that our multi-party system results in about 37% of the (voting) public winning each election and thereby running the country as if they were a majority (of the voters), which they are not.

Do you recall when the conservatives (small "c") in this country were having their vote split between 2 parties: the Progressive Conservatives and the Reform Party? Do you?

Conservatives (small c again) couldn't win a federal election to save their lives as long as their vote was split between 2 conservative parties.

You didn't enjoy that, did you? It guaranteed a Liberal Party victory in every election. So the inevitable eventually happened and the two conservative parties merged into one out of mutual self-interest and a desire to win an election.

Now you have the opposite situation, where the NDP and the Liberals, and the Greens are splitting all the non-Conservative votes between themselves and mutually cutting each other's throats by so doing.

The only thing they CAN do under these circumstances is what the conservatives did....they must now join together in some fashion...either by forming a new single party...or by forming a coalition of parties.

Given their respective utter determination to maintain their separate identities, it has to be a coalition.

The natural voting trend in this country, JimLad, is for about 40% of the country to support a conservative social philosophy and for about 60% of it to support a liberal social philosophy. That means that Canadian conservatives are always going to be out in the cold UNLESS the liberals split their votes between 2 or more parties.....(or unless the Liberal Party itself is in office so long and gets so damned arrogant that the public finally turns on them in disgust....which is what used to always happen eventually in the old days.)

No wonder the notion of this coalition bothers you... ;-) It's not because it's undemocratic. It's not because it's unfair. It's because it would cause your guys to lose power. Period. You are moved by your partisan loyalties and your social philosophy (as are we all).

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: gnu
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 02:19 PM

Jim... so, what yer sayin is that there are winners and there are hosers?

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 02:34 PM

Ah, but every hoser imagines himself to be a winner....and thinks it is the others who are losers.

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Peter T.
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 02:43 PM

The Governor General has the last word. She is the representative of the Crown, which the Prime Minister is not (unlike in the US, where the President is the Head of State). The Crown is the "spiritual" essence of the country -- which is why it is, for example, The Crown vs. X in courts. If the coalition can get a majority in Parliament, and the Governor General agrees that they should have the right to try and form a government, that is the Crown's prerogative.

Stephen Harper's version of this is completely ridiculous and self-serving. In fact, it reveals something very interesting about how neo-cons think about government -- as far as they are concerned, the executive branch is everything (which is why George W. did what he did), because government is only legitimate in dealing with security and the military. Old line conservatives would be totally appalled by this.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 04:03 PM

You are devastatingly accurate and to the point as always, Peter. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Jim Lad
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 05:18 PM

Actually LH. Back then I was a Liberal supporter.

I scanned through what you wrote but am extremely uncomfortable with your level of anxiety.

Chill out, Bud.

It's only politics.

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 07:51 PM

I don't think the Governor General has any option other than to ask Stephane Dion to form a government, if he convinces her (it is still 'her'?) that he has the support of a majority of MPs.

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Beer
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 08:09 PM

All of a sudden there is talk that there are some Liberal m.p.'s that are upset with this arrangement of a coalition. Brings to mind what Jim mentioned earlier up on this thread. Not necessarily Justin of course. Don't think it would happen though.

"My guess is that Justin Trudeau will bring eight or nine disgruntled Liberals across the floor thereby giving the Conservative Government a majority."

Adrien

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: meself
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 08:19 PM

Still 'her' - a Governor-General who has no background whatsoever to making this sort of a decision (thank you, Paul Martin) on our behalf ...

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Jim Lad
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 09:54 PM

Mike Duffy went on to say that one of the Liberals whom he had just interviewed and who had been calling Stephen Harper for everything, came to him in tears,during the break and asking Mike and the rest of the media to please help them find a way out of this. The politician in question has more than twenty years experience.
Meanwhile, Dr. Kieth Martin, a Liberal and my representative has been the first to ask the Government to find a way to reach across the floor.
His constituency/my home is as far west as you can get in Canada. He won the last election by 27 votes but I really don't think it's the fear of losing that bothers him. It would seem that the farther west you come, the more anger there is towards the Separatists. Don't know why, that's just the way it is. The man must be taking a lot of heat at home.
Imagine though. A veteran politician actually in tears for the position that has been thrust upon him. Someone like that..... I'd vote for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Peter T.
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 10:14 PM

I don't get this -- what is he in tears about? That his own party gets into power? Does he think that the Liberals will do so badly that the voters will repudiate them forever when they get the chance? We're talking 2-3 years here -- a lot of blood can flow under the bridge in 2-3 years. And Stephen Harper will be gone (and look around at the rest of the Tories, it is to laugh).


yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 10:51 PM

For sure, JimLad, it's only politics. ;-)

I think most people acquire a sort of tendency to favor or oppose a specific party from their parents (I'm sure there are some exceptions to that, though...a few probably go directly against their parents instead).

At any rate I know my mother acquired her hatred for the Liberals from her parents....although she IS a social liberal, for gosh sakes! In fact, she's a socialist! My father was essentially apolitical, aside from retaining a deep hatred of fascists and communists both (he acquired those feelings in WWII).

My mother, despite being a socialist, detests the Liberals so much that she will vote either Conservative OR NDP, but not Liberal! Isn't that bizarre? It stems directly, I think, from the fact that her family were upper middle class Protestant Scots, and they figured that the Liberals were allied with...the French...the Quebecois...the Catholics....and various other cultural groups which they did not identify with. Accordingly, their instinct was to support the Conservatives.

But she's a socialist....so she liked the NDP too! I think it's hilarious. ;-)

Me, I'm fairly much a socialist, so I used to like the NDP, but I think they have badly lost their way in the last decade or so, and I think Layton's a loose cannon. I regard the Liberals to be corrupt and often very phony....but...I disagree profoundly with the social and fiscal philosophy of the present Conservatives even more than I disagree with the usual phony baloney of the Liberals.

I'm disappointed in all of them, but I'd rather see anyone else in power right now than the Conservatives...not that I think they're bad people by any means...I just think they're on the wrong track, that's all. I don't agree with their slant on foreign policy, I don't agree with their slant on domestic policy.

Whoever gets elected or takes over, though, I don't envy them, because they've got a very tough situation to deal with now.

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Dec 08 - 12:45 AM

"I don't get this -- what is he in tears about?"
I think Little Hawk just answered your question, Peter.
Whether this politician has inherited his values from his parents or whether they are entirely his own, he does have a creed.
Does anyone doubt Ted Kennedy's sincerity? Just an example that most here can appreciate.
It is being reported that there are several MPs on all sides who are caught up in this spat with absolutely no say in the matter.
Many of these politicians are following a creed that is a part of their DNA.
Now they are being ordered to collaborate with those whose views are the complete opposite to their own and to attack, without mercy, their colleagues across the floor.
These people dine together 5 days a week and socialize most evenings.
They share more meaningful conversations with each other on subjects which ignite their passions than they do with their own spouses.
Share the same hotels, gymns, cafeterias and churches on a daily basis.
And now they are told by four power hungry pugilists to go for the throat?
Meanwhile, the corridors of power are bedecked with the holly, cedar bows, candles and Christmas lights.
You may even shed a tear yourself under those circumstances.

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Peter T.
Date: 04 Dec 08 - 04:57 AM

tears of laughter. Parliament is pugilism (thanks for the word). If they haven't been pugilistic up to this point, then they have been sitting earning their checks to no purpose. Anaesthetised eunuchs.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Peter T.
Date: 04 Dec 08 - 09:40 AM

Boy, Stephen Harper is even more of a slime than I thought. To save his hide, he's turned this into a West-East separatist issue: break up the country why don't you Stephen, known to posterity as "Wrecker of His Country".

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 04 Dec 08 - 11:52 AM

meself said,

"a Governor-General who has no background whatsoever to making this sort of a decision..."

Actually, its part of her job and she is very well educated and quite capable of making the decision according to parliamentary rules and constitutional guidance. Thats one of the reasons why we have a governor general. Somebody has to sort this out.

Azizi

You might be interested in knowing that Michaelle Jean is the daughter of a refugee mother from Haiti. It was a great day for Canada when she became Governor General. I am overjoyed that the future of Canada is now in the hands of a woman of colour. Above all, she is an excellent communicator who is fluent in five languages. I think she can handle this and wish her the best.

"Ms. Jean has won numerous honours, including the Prix Mireille-Lanctôt for a report on spousal violence; the Prix Anik for best information reporting in Canada for her investigation of the power of money in Haitian society; and the inaugural Amnesty International Canada Journalism Award. She has also been named to the Ordre des Chevaliers de La Pléiade, by the Assemblée internationale des parlementaires de langue française, and has been made an honorary citizen by the City of Montreal and the Ministère de l'Immigration et des relations avec les citoyens of Quebec in recognition of her accomplishments in communications."

http://www.gg.ca/gg/bio/index_e.asp

Personally, I will enjoy seeing Harper take in in the ...

He is despised by his own Parliament. Anyone can do a better job of team building. Canada does not need Harper. He is a liar and a destructive SOB.

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 04 Dec 08 - 12:05 PM

Prime Minister Stephen Harper will visit the Governor-General at Rideau Hall early Thursday morning when he is expected to ask that Parliament be suspended, likely until the Conservatives can bring down a budget in late January.

Well, well.

It seems the Conservative fears have been put to rest by our Governor General, who, at the request of Harper, has suspended Parliament until January to give him an opportunity to bring in a budget.

Harper keeps talking about "working together". Lets see him put his money where his mouth is.

For now we can rest until then and enjoy the holidays.

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Dec 08 - 12:17 PM

That should make for a more peaceful Christmas....I hope? I gather there will be a blitz of government political messages on radio and TV like a mini-election, but I won't be bothered much by that, cos I don't waste my time on radio or TV. I waste it on the computer! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Dec 08 - 01:11 PM

I'm listening to CFAX right now and have yet to hear one caller disagree with the Governor General.
Now is the time to cool off and enjoy the festive season with their families.
To listen to their constituents and address their real concerns.
And a time when the politicians can approach the leaders with their own concerns.

Dianavan: You neglected to mention. She is HOT!

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: gnu
Date: 04 Dec 08 - 01:27 PM

Jan 26... now THAT is a vacation!

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: 3refs
Date: 04 Dec 08 - 03:41 PM

CANADA
FederalGovernment-Head of State: THE representative of THE Queen for all Canada is the Governor General-Her Excellency Michaelle Jean
PERIOD!

I'm just lovin it. I remember well when Her Excellency was appointed.
All those dweebs on T.V. and radio, with all that dribble coming out from under their noses, saying "Oh it just ceremonial, it doesn't really count as anything". The people have spoken!!!!!!!

Consider our choices. A guy who's supposed to quite in months. Another guy who wants nothing to do with Canada except use our money when they separate. Or a guy who's so slippery, I'm glad I was wearing spikes when I was introduced.

Now "All That" being said, how could we give the power of the country and all that stuff we ain't supposed to know to any of them!

If we have to.......I'm ready to vote again!

ps
The Monarchy still lives in Canada! Her Excellency, served her Queen well!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: The Lorax
Date: 04 Dec 08 - 04:05 PM

Peter T wrote: "Boy, Stephen Harper is even more of a slime than I thought. To save his hide, he's turned this into a West-East separatist issue: break up the country why don't you Stephen, known to posterity as "Wrecker of His Country"."

That's spot-on, Peter! Harper is deflecting the issue of the government's complete lack of confidence in his ability to handle the economic crisis (not to mention the fact that he was caught red-handed spying on the NDP) by turning around and basically saying "Hey, everyone, look! Scary separatists!! OOOOH!!!"

This is not about Quebec. This is about an ego-tripping power-hungry man who will stop at nothing in his quest to completely re-construct the nature of Canada's parliamentary democracy into a tool for forwarding a conservative, uber-capitalist, republican agenda.

And, by the way, I think he's making the West look bad too.

The Lorax.

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Dec 08 - 04:11 PM

You know, it's a party we are supposed to be electing in this system when we vote, not a "leader". We don't have a president here, we have party leaders who are selected not by the public...but by their own party's serving members in caucus and convention.

I think that Canadians are losing sight of that, and some of the politicians are losing sight of it too. Harper has been governing as if he were an American president. He is not a president. He is a temporary representative of his party, same as Dion, Layton, or Duceppe. His party chose him, not the public. He is not the leader of all Canada or of Canadians, he's the temporary leader of his own party. Period.

In a parliamentary system one man does not rule. Parliament rules. Parliament is composed of ALL the parties, not just the one with the most seats. In a minority government the party "in power" MUST get cooperation from at least one other party on major legislation or it is no longer able to govern effectively, and it must either step down or call an election.

That's partly what this mess is about, the fact that the Conservatives have acted as if they already had a majority. It's also about all of them (the parties) trying to grab whatever advantage they can, needless to say. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: 3refs
Date: 04 Dec 08 - 04:46 PM

Except.
We decide are own politics. Yes this.....No that!(or, Oui ceci ..... qui non!). We then join a party. Attend a convention. And elect the leader of our party. Vote!!!!! And then we go to the White House...errr Parliament!

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Dec 08 - 06:26 PM

Oh I know this one... Mr Harper came out of Rideau Hall this morning and saw his shadow.....

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Cluin
Date: 04 Dec 08 - 08:54 PM

"You know, it's a party we are supposed to be electing in this system when we vote, not a "leader"."

Amen. That's the system we have.

Besides, I didn't like ANY of the leaders, almost least of all the leader of the party I did cast my vote. I voted for my local MP... the guy I trusted and wanted to represent me in Ottawa.

Or at least the lesser of all evils. What i hated about the last election was that I was being forced to vote AGAINST something rather than FOR something.

When I was watching the debates leading up to the election, especially to round-table one on TVO, I was disappointed that nobody asked the most pressing question I had: "If the result of this election is another minority government for the Conservatives, likes it looks to be (and turned out to be), are you people going to get to work with the government WE choose and stop dicking around playing partisan politics, or are we goung to back in this same situation in 2 years facing another election?"

Little did I think it woul;d be more like 2 months.

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Cluin
Date: 04 Dec 08 - 08:58 PM

Friggin' clumsy fingers... blame it on "snow shovel cramp".

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: 3refs
Date: 04 Dec 08 - 11:42 PM

I have a problem with the "Any enemy of my enemy is a friend of mine!".
I've listened, quite intently, with the arguments of the three opposition parties and for the life of me I just can't get passed the BS. Bob Rae..."everything is fine with the leader(who will be PM) of our party". Isn't Mr. Rae running for the leadership of that party? Jack Layton is Black, White, Gay, Straight, Aborigional, French and English! It all depends on who he's talking to. As for Mr. Duceppe, although I hate separatists, I appreciate the skill. I think if we put multiculturalism out with the garbage and promoted tri- culturalism as a national identity we'd be far better off!

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 04 Dec 08 - 11:43 PM

When we subject ourselves to being governed by such as these knaves, fools, and crooks are we not part of the problem? Harper may be an arsehole of the first magnitude but the sad truth is that the alternative dosn't look that much better. A pity indeed! We need a fairer means of representation where the good of the country and its people come first before the good of political parties and their thirst for unlimited power. A pox on them all! (Bill Casey excepted)

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Cluin
Date: 05 Dec 08 - 12:28 AM

I disagree, 3refs. I think multiculturalism is what makes our country the most important social experiment going on on the planet today. We owe it to the future to make it work, to provide a successful example to the rest of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Peace
Date: 05 Dec 08 - 12:45 AM

"Lets see him put his money where his mouth is."

The sonuvabitch is putting OUR money where his mouth is. Piss on 'im!

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Jim Lad
Date: 05 Dec 08 - 01:42 AM

Back to Dr. Kieth Martin.
I was listening to CBC Radio interviewing the local MPs on the way to a gig tonight.
Kieth Martin was one of them. The other two were local Conservative and NDP members.
All three were most contrite and apologetic. Speaking to their own constituents well out of earshot of their beloved leaders in Ottawa.
Basically all saying what I had written about last night.
They all have friends on both sides of the house and this is not sitting well with them at all.
They are "Happy" that parliament has been prorogued.
On floor crossing. Two members have come out of Liberal caucus and spilled the beans on what was being said. Members get kicked out of the party for doing this and one of them may find himself in that position. The other (Ralph Goodale) is of higher rank and will probably go unpunished. Or is it unrewarded?

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: 3refs
Date: 05 Dec 08 - 07:49 AM

Cluin
How much of our heritage and how many of our cultural practices, that have gone on for eons, will be lost before we conclude that this social experiment has cost a nation it's identity? I always thought that after you immigrated, you assimilated!

Assimilate: to bring into conformity with the customs, attitudes, etc., of a group, nation, or the like; adapt or adjust: to assimilate the new immigrants.

Call me what you will!

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: bobad
Date: 05 Dec 08 - 09:08 AM

"Sheila Copps says she has talked to "quite upset" Conservatives and there are "backroom moves" on replacing Harper with an interim leader such as Environment Minister Jim Prentice or Defence Minister Peter MacKay. The one-time Liberal deputy prime minister and Ottawa fixture says she's heard Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon would back MacKay.

Copps also said that, while Liberal MPs remain behind the coalition, doubt is surfacing again on whether Stephane Dion should be the one to lead it because he is stepping down in May. "That is certainly in the mix. Is there another scenario for Mr. Dion where he can leave earlier? I know they are being discussed. It's very interesting."

http://www.thespec.com/News/CanadaWorld/article/477298

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: GUEST,Arnie
Date: 05 Dec 08 - 09:20 AM

Really happy that my taxes are paying all these sleazeball power hungry politicians to go on a prorogue ( I never even heard of that word in my life till last week). They get a paid vacation for playing politics while thousands are losing jobs - Terrific

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 05 Dec 08 - 09:43 AM

CBC claims that 47% want Harper to remain, (which is the majority), and
a very small percentage want a Coalition with Dion as the leader.
A magazine that I read is polling "Conservatives or Coalition", (leaving
out the question of who's leading the government) and the results are approximately 87-90% in favor of a Coalition, the last time that I
checked with many votes.
I think that the general polls should have an impact on the decision
to form a Coalition or not. (And Yes, Coalition will be in favor. I
doubt that the numbers CBC displayed last night were accurate, if there is at least another poll showing otherwise).

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Peter T.
Date: 05 Dec 08 - 11:02 AM

To repeat: the essence of Parliament has nothing to do with political parties. The party system evolved, and in the nineteenth century -- as mass politics emerged -- was grafted on to the original system.   MPs are supposed to be elected as representatives of their constituents to debate on behalf of the nation the main issues of the day. This fundamental idea has been crapped on and distorted so badly that people find it hard to believe that Parliament is supposed to be a serious debating chamber (Question Period is a complete travesty).

The Governor General, was, in my opinion, wrong. But I can see the argument that the government should be defeated on a budget issue. Nevertheless, on balance, she was wrong. Anyone who can form a majority in the house should be allowed to.

yours,

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Wild Canadian Politics
From: Beer
Date: 05 Dec 08 - 12:39 PM

Just going out the door but thought I'd mention that I just heard there in talk in the Consecrative party of Jean Charest as a possible replacement for Harper.
Adrien