Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Stringsinger
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 11:41 AM

Wait! It might not be perfect but somebody's got to start somewhere. It's not easy to
make a decent recording. I've been trying to do so for years and haven't to my satisfaction so far.

What is dreadful is that folk music doesn't get heard at all and is dismissed.

Celtic Woman may not be the music of the people but those ladies do know how to sing and the music is of good quality. By this I mean it is well-thought out, lovely, and although the content is not of a traditional folk expression, it has musical value.

You could hurl those thunderbolts at Joan Baez and Judy Collins as well and you would be
narrow in your view of what constitutes musical quality.

The word "Celtic" has become a recording company term as does the word "Hillbilly" or even "Rhythm and Blues". It purports to define a market for a certain type of music and what is wrong with that?

i think there exists a kind of folk-snobbery that is unfounded. There is all kinds of music in the world. Some of it has patches of sunshine mixed in with cloudy drivel.

I try to appreciate the sunny elements of every performance though there are obviously preferences that we all have.

I don't believe in censorship. Let it all be out there and accept or reject but to say something is dreadful is setting up an icon that has to be defended by reason and taste and not by mere opinion.

Celtic Woman may not be "Celtic" by some standards but I think it is a great opportunity to open the door to appreciation of Irish music to those not familiar with it. Then we can move on to Willie Clancy, Margaret Barry, Mary Black, Altan etc. to enrich us further.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Fidjit
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 01:56 PM

If you didn't like Sleepy Rosies, Corrs

Then you won't like this

Chas

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,Colm O`Shea
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 02:19 PM

To be sure, Sleepy Rosie, whoever is doing the singing on that French & Saunders skit certainly puts most of the girl singers on today`s "folk" scene to shame!

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 02:28 PM

Fidjit
I loved it.... and I have been to that session at least once.

I love Paul Whitehouse. ARSE

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Colin Randall
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 03:21 PM

Frank Hamilton has a point. Or half a point.

It IS snobbish to look down on albums promising Celtic Christmas, Celtic Strings, Celtic Dream, Celtic Drivel et al

But we have to endure so much snobbishness directed at us that we must be allowed our moment of revenge.

The fact is that the adjective is inserted quite cynically as a marketing tool. Nothing wrong with marketing, you may say, Frank, and nothing wrong with trying to package folk/trad for the masses. But also nothing wrong with the rest of us having our chance to turn up our noses at something.

Colin

Salut! Live




t

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Whistleworks
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 03:29 PM

Let's not forget William Shatner's version of MacArthur Park.... blecch.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Nerd
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 04:27 PM

BubblyRat,

There's a reason that recording is so good. I bet it was one of the ones put out by Green Linnet, which was the actual record label for all those artists. Toward the end of their existence, Green Linnet decided to cash in on the Celtic Crap vogue by making compilations of their own artists and marketing them exactly like other companies marketed Celtic Crap. Only Green Linnet artists were the ones you mentioned, not crap at all! Clever, eh?

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 04:47 PM

Shatner brings something brand new to everything he touches.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,KP
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 05:06 PM

This recording sums up everything I dislike about classical singers and composers trying to 'arrange' folk songs. Especially after hearing the Sangsters sing it so well at Edinburgh Folk Club recently....

Bonnie Earl of Moray

KP

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 05:11 PM

Both YouTube bits were a riot, but Saunders' clip was genius.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: oldhippie
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 05:15 PM

Not a purchase - someone gifted me a CD "Transmigrations" by Wolf Krakowski. One listen and it went straight into the trash.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 06:03 PM

You know, I hope you don't mind me saying, but.....there's one helluva lot of pompous drivel in this thread.

I *love* The Corrs
I *love* Enya
I *love* Clannad
I *love* The Chieftans

What I can't stand is arrogant viewpoints that 'we' are so much better than 'them', because 'we' know all about proper 'traditional' music.

Pah.


The Corrs

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Ref
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 06:58 PM

Lizzie:

This is just a minor outpouring of curmudgeonliness. (If that's not a word, it should be one, especially on THIS website!) I like the groups you've mentioned as well. I think the swipes at them were taken because of forays into experimentation that didn't meet with commenters' approval. Some I agree with, some I don't. Go over and take a look at the vitriolic "Homage to Rise up Singing" thread if you want to see some REAL holier-than-thou "pompous drivel."

I was just talking with my spouse who overheard me listening to Celtic Women. We agreed it would be better and probably lower ticket prices if the ladies would just come out on stage with a few (many fewer!) instruments and let their lovely voices carry the load. Maybe they make better money with the "Arena Celtic" shows, but none of it will be mine!

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 07:06 PM

I'm scared now... that means there are THREE copies of 'A Box and Banjo at Christmas' out there.... help me mummy?!

LTS

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 04:36 AM

I don't think my dislike of Enya (for example) is in any way arrogant or curmudgeonly. I'm very fond of Irish music (and Scottish music, and English music), but I dislike the "Celtic" schtick that is beloved of the media people and the advertising people and the marketing people and which, at it's worst, turns the whole thing into twee, mushy sensation with no guts and iron in it.

My son gave me the 3-CD (edited reissue) set of "The All Electric Muse - Folk into Folk Rock" for Christmas. A very mixed bag but, when I listen to Shirley Collins and Davy Graham performing "Pretty Saro", or the Fureys thrashing their way through "The Mason's Apron" at high revs (and over the top it is, in some ways), I know why I don't like Enya. It's the difference between a ripe Stilton and factory-processed Cheddar.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 04:45 AM

Just for the record, the disc I picked up as a part of my three for a fiver supermarket 'deal', wasn't actually by "Celtic Woman", it was some other piece of generic Celtic-u-like splodge with a simlar sounding generic Celtic-u-like title. And neither do I pretend to know anything about real traditional music. I'm still a complete newb. I am however entitled to post a humorously intended thread about something that hurt my ears, and made me grimace. And of course laugh.

As a new person becoming interested in folk, if my only exposure to folk was this kind of mass marketed "Easy Listenin!", I would simply dismiss it out of hand. Just like S Club 7 or Kylie or any other typical toot you might wish to mention.

My tuppney is that these type of recordings are for a type of listener who will never truly desire to learn anything more about traditional music, and that these discs will simply go quietly in the background, to brief complemenatary observances of "this is nice isn't it dear?" and then on the shelf next to last Christmas' Cliff Richard album, ABBA Gold, The Three Tenors box set, and Leslie Garrett goes Pop! (well one can wish) and possibly some Hermans Hermits if your genuinely lucky (I quite like Hermans Hermits truth be known... :-/ ). I'm sure that all this has been said before however, and on far more vitriolic threads than this.

As for Celtic Woman, Enya, The Corrs et al, I wouldn't sweat it for them. They sure won't be. They know full well what they are doing, and as a consequence are of course doing very nicely thankyou!

Re that Corrs clip, sure I'd happily jump about to that, after a beer or two. Unfortuately I can't see those girls now, without Dawn French superimposing herself over their faces....

Now back on topic and On With the Silliness

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 04:50 AM

With the Silliness

Magic! I must have a copy.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 04:57 AM

Rosie - that's superb. I particularly liked Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Barn.

Reminds me of Momus's classic work of folktronica, Finnegan the Folk Hero:

"He could stream Quicktime
He could code in Flash
He could make your icons dance with Java,
Then empty out your trash..."

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 05:08 AM

Hey LTS.
A Box and a Banjo at Christmas.....Want Want Want!!! Salivating here!
Swap you a Hackney Martians CD? Waddya say!
Ho Ho Ho Ralphie.
PS Asa rule of thumb, anything with the word "Celtic" in the title, I usually avoid with extreme prejudice!!

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 05:23 AM

Used to adore Momus! Greek God of mockery, just checked. I knew it was some spiked classical reference.
Wonderful wicked lyricist. Thanks for that.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 06:08 AM

If the "Over the Rainbow" clip is typical, what Celtic Women are doing is barbershop. Which may not be considered very cool these days when anybody else does it, but it's a bit late to complain about its existence.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 06:45 AM

OMG, Rosie: "A cross between Hermann Goering and the Wurzels" - brilliant!!!!!

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 07:57 AM

Has anybody posted this link here before?

O Holy Night

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 08:08 AM

Jesus, Jack. What the hell is that? You've frightened my dog.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Gedi
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 08:21 AM

there I was sitting quietly having my sandwich at work, and then that! What are you trying to do to me..... ; )

That's definately one to avoid at all costs.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,KP
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 08:22 AM

Great Thread this! I'd forgotten how gorgeous (and they can play) the Corrs Girls are, but everything pales besides 'Now that's what I call 80s Electro Pop Folk Songs'. Thanks Lizzie and Rosie!
KP

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 08:22 AM

"Lizzie:

This is just a minor outpouring of curmudgeonliness."

Yeah, but I'm afraid that the English folk scene, for me now, is about a major outpouring of curmudgeonliness, most of the time.

It saddens me, Ref, because I feel it drives many people away, and it keeps some damned fine music locked away.

I been through the 'Let's Bash The Corrs' syndrome on the BBC board, many a time, with a certain poster on here. I actually didn't like the French and Saunders 'spoof' off the band either, finding it very bitchy, not funny.

If The Corrs weren't talented, to be honest, I'd still not like it much, but hell, you *cannot* poke fun at those musicians, because they sure know about music! They've been singing it as long as The Young Coppers have, with and in their family, all their lives!

And if the girls all look so alike, and ALL of them are beautiful, is that something they should have to endure nastiness for? They ARE stunningly beautiful, but so what?

Is there some feeling that you can only be taken seriously in the folk world if your plain as a pikestaff, no make up, no erotic movement of your body, no long eyelashes, but you just stand there in yer Doc Martens belting out the song, not giving a damn how you look or who's watching, because hey *you* are a 'traditionalist' worshipping at the Holy Altar of English Folk Music, and it is ALLLLLLLLLL about the song and NOWT else!

Sheesh!

You wanna know what really hacks me off?

When I sit in The Ham Marquee at Sidmouth, listening to BRILLIANT music, and I look at the audience. What do I see? I see, for the most part, a sea of grey headed, serious faces, no-one is moving with the music, everyone is sitting stock still, seemingly listening out for either the 'purity' of the music, or listening for any mistake that they can dissect in the pub later and take pleasure in 'bashing the artist' particularly if he or she is not one of the Inner Circle of English Folk Music.

What I don't see is YOUNGSTERS, moving and grooving to the music.

I don't see, when I've been into The Radway, a whole host of musicians whooping it up, joy on their faces, audiences of all ages clapping to the beat of the music, unable to keep their bodies still. I don't see people dancing...or 'letting go' as they would, say in Ireland or Scotland...I just see 'seriousness' from the older academic-types who've taken over this music and surrounded it with pedantry, sniffing snobbishly at those who don't know exactly where each song/tune came from, or what colour underwear Cecil Sharp was wearing when he knocked on the door of Daisy Lillibottom's cottage, on the third Wednesday in June, after she'd helped to gather in the harvest.

Honestly...but comments such as those that say they no longer listen to The Chieftans because they had the nerve to sing along with 'pop' singers...

I mean????????? WHAT is that all about? I don't understand the thinking about that, apart from some kind of terrible snobbery and this whole darn thing about The Holy Altar of English Traditional Music, which is the *only* kind of music worth listening to.

Well, in a few more decades, the grey headed serious ones ain't gonna be around...and then who'll be the audience?

Will it be the young people, brought in by Seth Lakeman, Kate Rusby and Ronan Keating, who've been so criticised by the Traditional world. Will it be those who loved The Chieftans and the 'pop' stars, only finding that they actually loved The Chieftans music because they listened to it for other reasons to start with?

The Chieftans have it right. Eliza Carthy has it right, not for her 'traddie' reputation, but because Eliza is happy to sing with anyone, spread the music out, bring it all in, mix it all up.

Enya's music is damned beautiful at times. Not only that, but the spiritual feeling of it, often brings comfort to worried or troubled minds. Yet she's constantly ridiculed by those within the English folk world, as are many others.   Why????

Is it because they're successful?

Maybe, just maybe some 'out there' need to take a good long look at themselves and think what they are actually doing, because if it means more to them to keep the music 'pure' and to keep it to themselves, despising others who love it in the 'wrong' way, for the 'wrong' reasons, then one day, their small world of music will be gone forever.

Don't exclude.

Include.

And that goes for most things in life, not just music.

Now I'll leave some in here to carry on sniping about highly successful artists whose music is loved by hundreds of thousands, so that they can all say how their world is being ignored, whilst completely missing the point that it is because they want it kept as 'their world' that it is so overlooked, or avoided like the plague, in the first place.

I'm off to listen to the fabulous Loreena McKennitt now, who probably 'sings songs in the wrong accent' in a 'wishy washy voice' but who could, I've no doubt, run rings around most of the people in this thread, with her knowledge of traditional music from around the world, including English and Celtic, and could fill ANY concert hall around the world, as can The Corrs, Enya and a whole host of other Celtic artists.

Loreena McKennitt - Myspace

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 08:45 AM

I came across a tape entitled Celtic Mist in a German petrol station and a gaggle of teenagers sniggering. And they hadn't even heard it but I'm quite certain it was an accurate description of the content. (Look up what "Mist" means in German . . . )

I saw the Corrs once on television (by accident, obviously). One of them (not the bloke) was being very insistent that they "don't do folk music", just in case anyone was failing to equate them with Girls Aloud or anything of that ilk.

If anyone considers this to be "elitist", if elitism = excellence, then long live elitism. Whooping, out-of-time clapping and diddly GEFF tripe isn't the style of the Radway.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Surreysinger
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 08:46 AM

Jack .... what did any of us do to deserve that one??? Who IS it?? Which institution did he escape from?

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 08:55 AM

No, there are many, many artists who + excellent, but who have scorn poured upon them by those within the 'traditional' sector of the English folk world.

"Whooping, out-of-time clapping and diddly GEFF tripe isn't the style of the Radway."

And again, there is the condescending attitude which keeps your music so locked away.

It's no longer a music I am a part of anymore. I've left it's narrow shores for an ocean of beautiful music, that has no barriers, no 'intelligensia' who guard it, just people who have incredible skill and talent and who say....

"Come in, for ALL are welcome here."

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 08:57 AM

Oops..many artists who = excellent.. :0)

(too many mistakes in that other post of mine above, didn't check it hey ho...I think I was too busy clapping out of time) ;0)

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Gedi
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 08:57 AM

Oh dear, I get the sinking feeling that this thread is about to degenerate into yet another 'what is and what is not folk music'.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 09:01 AM

OMIGOD! Lizzie.
For your information, quite a few of the artists that you champion so voraciously often pop into the Radway when they can!
People don't dance because there is normally no room!
Occasionally someone might ask the name of a tune, or it's origins. (No point asking me, I normally haven't got a clue!).
If you want to spend an arm and a leg sitting in the Ham, so be it. I prefer the Radway for free. Music for me is about participation. Maybe you should take up an instrument?

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 09:15 AM

Mr Campin.
You are a very sick man.
Did he get his singing lessons from a certain Mr Franks of this parish?
Nonetheless it has made it's way into my file of ephemeral tunes.(I keep them on a seperate hard drive in the bottom of a dark chest.)
Very funny. Bet Lizzie doesn't get the joke.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 09:17 AM

Enya's music is damned beautiful at times. Not only that, but the spiritual feeling of it, often brings comfort to worried or troubled minds. Yet she's constantly ridiculed by those within the English folk world, as are many others.   Why????

You don't seem to get the point of some of the answers, Lizzie. Speaking for myself - not for anyone else, just myself - I don't care for that kind of music for a number of reasons. I don't care for the sentiment; I don't care for the style, which I find mushy and sententious; and I don't for the twee-Celtic dress in which it's clothed. There's no question of ridiculing her - she's welcome to flourish in her own field and good luck to her - but I personally don't find her music beautiful or spiritual; and if I was worried or troubled, I certainly wouldn't find solace in her music. Other things move me more - and I'm happy to provide some personal examples.

The main point of this thread was the "dreadful" nature of some of the faux-Celtic'y/folk-y stuff out there. Now, dreadful is a subjective word and beauty is in the eye, etc., but we as individuals have to make judgments and be subjective - otherwise how could we compare anything with anything? And we have to have some personal standards, otherwise we'd like everything and nothing. To say that I don't like Enya is simply to say that I don't like Enya or, as it happens, anything else in that line. But - and please note this - just because I don't happen to care for that stuff doesn't mean that I'm a hard-hearted old curmudgeon who goes "bah! humbug!" at the world, or that I'm lacking in any spirituality. I just get my enlightenment elsewhere, and I find beauty in many other musical and artistic forms.

Just because we're not white doesn't mean we're black - the world is more subtle than that.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,LTS pretending to work
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 09:29 AM

Ralphie - you are on!!! My Hackney Martians cassette tape is starting to sound even weirder.

PM me a postal address and I'll get a copy to you!

LTS

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 09:45 AM

Lizzie C
In amongst all these Po faced Grey haired old men who frequent the Radway that you have dismissed with such inpunity, I presume you are including your good friend Barry Lister? And half of the Old Swan Band? Mr wood and Mr Cutting have been known to drop in occasionally.
Wouldn't be surprised if Eliza hasn't been in too.

And if your'e looking for spiritual enlightenment try Morton Lauredsons arrangement of "O Magnum Mysterium"
Would like to see the Coors trying that one!

LTS. Not a member here so no PM. Will find another way. Am on Facebook. Any use?
Regards Ralphie x

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 10:10 AM

Oh Lizzie, if it's spiritual enlightenment you're after, why not try Napalm Death, Extreme Noise Terror, and Melt Banana. All fairly whimsical in an idiosyncratic way.
(Gentle musing here. The Chieftains locking horns with Half Man Half Biscuit. I'd pay good money to see that!)

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 10:24 AM

"I'd pay good money to see that!"

You're not alone.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Fidjit
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 10:25 AM

Well done Lizzie C
Those Loreena tracks went straight into the box set with all the other Parodies on here.

Now we'll have people saying that Good King Weceslas is an Irish song. Not to mention The Holly and The Ivy.

Her voice did make me think of Maddy Prior though.

Chas

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 10:30 AM

I listened to an entire Enya CD for the first time not long ago (somebody here had suggested her version of "I Dreamt I Dwelt in Marble Halls" - I can't imagine why).

The one thing it did have going for it was her percussionist, who did some imaginative things with timpani, not a common sound in folk arrangements. It still went to a charity shop the next day.

Which brings me to another category of OMGTD recordings - those where the lead singer or instrument is fine but the backing makes your toes curl all the way up to your ankles. Most recordings of Arabic music with electric organ backing do that for me. So do all the records I've ever heard of Jewish cantorial music (refined modal singing with an organ accompaniment that sounds like a crematorium scene from a zombie film). And all Michael Coleman's recordings (they sound like the piano player was recruited by going into the nearest bar, shouting "Anyone here wanna bash the ivories?" and signing up anybody offering who was too drunk to insist on getting paid).

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Muckart
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 10:33 AM

Please, Mr Campin, tell us who gave that unforgettable rendition of "Holy Night", and when? It puts me in mind of "Toothache" and a certain Punk Rock version of "My Way". Has he recorded any more? And what's the recording company?

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 11:04 AM

It seems to have been found under a gooseberry bush. The site I linked to doesn't say who, when or where. I first heard it via Molly Mockford, sysadmin for Dick Gaughan's site, and she said she was sent it by a friend working at the Library of Congress. Maybe it was lurking somewhere in the American Memory collection?

One suggestion I've seen was that it was sent in as a try-out for a talent show.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 11:09 AM

"One suggestion I've seen was that it was sent in as a try-out for a talent show."

Mmmm, do you think he needs to be a little more emotionally expressive? 'Tell the story' more - really 'feel it' and 'communicate it', from the inside.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 11:15 AM

The site I linked to doesn't say who, when or where.

Oh yes it does. Go to the main page and click on 'O Holy Night saga', about halfway down the Categories column, and all will be revealed.

(Short answer: yes, it's a joke, although the backing is professional & was recorded for a different vocalist.)

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 11:56 AM

Yes Ralphie, look for Liz the Squeak and there I am... I should be the only LTS there, there are dozens of you!

LTS

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Surreysinger
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 01:05 PM

Well I looked for you Liz, but when you type Liz the Squeak into the search field, all that comes up is a fan group for Squeak the Hamster ... that isn't you by any chance is it?? However, as far as I am aware there's only one Ralphie Jordan on there (although plenty of Ralph Jordans without friends!!!)

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Jos
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 02:24 PM

Ralphie, if you can't find LtS I have an address for you in my address book from many years ago - if you haven't moved since I bought a Penny Hop/The Hop tape from you I could email her the address.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Jos
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 02:25 PM

Ooops - I mean I could PM it.

Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Ernest
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 02:28 PM

here`s the dreadful 100th post now...