Eddi Reader - Undervalued?

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 01:37 PM

Ms Reader is a mainstream popsinger who does one or two f*lk-tinged numbers. Her profile is quite high enough and has been for a very long time before lizziecornish "discovered" her. And so it is with all these "finds" she goes on to lionise and embarrass at inordinate length while adding not one iota of insight or new information to the public profile of artists that the rest of us have all known about for ever.

Ms Cornish victimises herself because she likes nothing better than jumping up and hanging herself up on a metaphorical crucifix and wailing - much in the style of her latest idol - that nobody listens to what she says. That's because she has nothing of any value to convey, just endless torrents of hyped up sycophancy ranging down to complete garbage through a tedious gamut of subjects whether she knows anything about them or, most commonly, not.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 01:56 PM

Anz in case anyone thinks I made it up...........

From: Lizzie Cornish - PM
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 05:36 PM

I feel nothing anymore for any of you. Not hatred, not anger, not disgust, just a complete and utter void. You are all of no consequence or meaning to me anymore, whatsoever.

You do not love this music as I do, you merely use it to abuse, belittle and bully. But, it is your freedom to do that...and so I will leave you to it. I hope you will all be very happy together on your new fun and lively board. I wish you all well.

And now, from my point of view, there is nothing further I want to say in here....but I'm sure you have more venom to spit out, so....I will let you do just that.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 02:19 PM

This thread is about Eddi Reader.

You wanna bash me, (again, as you always, obsessively do), then please start your own thread to do that in, Dave, and take Diane with you.

Thank you.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 04:29 PM

"Sorry for the thread drift - but it needed saying."

FolkieDave: no offense but no it really didn't. IMO you don't need to patronise the board by repeatedly explaining to everyone at length what a pain LizzieC is. She pisses you and others off, I got that many months ago. We all know why LC annoys people - she's got an OTT manner and no-doubt there's all kinds of goodies I could look up on the now infamous BBC Boards if I gave a shit, but guess what - I don't give a shit! If you think she's an attention seeker, don't give it to her. Simple as. No wonder she claims she's got an effing "following". Anyway, that's the last thing I'm ever going to say about it. Have a nice night all, I'm off to do something less boring instead, like watch trashy TV.. ;-)

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 04:32 PM

I agree with GUEST who called big Edna a failed pop singer trying to make a nest for herself in "modern" traditional music.
In saying that I know many who enjoy what she produces and she has become a bit of a minor celebrity in her native Scotland.

Worryingly, over the years, I am finding myself more and more in accord with the views of our leader Joe Offer, especially his views expressed on this thread on the subject of folk/traditional music and how promotion and marketing can change it from a genre full of emotion and nuance, into just another mode of entertainment,

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: michaelr
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 05:28 PM

Hudreds of threads, and the same old posts over and over again.

All you naysayers remind me of the old fogies who poo-poohed The Beatles when they first appearded, saying stupid things like "That's not music, that's just noise" and the like.

Time marches on, and nothing stays the same. There isn't a damn thing you can do about it. Get used to it, and fer chrissakes stop whining about it.

There's plenty of wonderful music being made by folks younger than you. To enjoy it, all you need is an open mind. Which is a commodity in short supply at Mudcat, unfortunately.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 05:46 PM

Well said, michaelr. Both posts.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 05:53 PM

"There's plenty of wonderful music being made by folks younger than you. To enjoy it, all you need is an open mind."

Dead right, michael.

Anyway, I'm not sure what all the fuss is about here on this thread...but I do have a creative idea for what we could do about it.

Let's ALL threaten to leave Mudcat once and for all if our specific desires are not met here! Then we'll have emotional blackmail going every which way, everyone will get those pent-up hostile feelings off their chests, and that should spin this thread out to at least 20,000 more posts with no trouble at all. ;-)

Oh, and may I mention as an aside (paid political announcement): Vote for Chongo in 2012!!! It's only 3 years away, you know. If you're not an American citizen, send money anyway to the American Primate Party...329 Tarzana Avenue, Santa Cruz, California. In lieu of money, send fresh bananas. No contribution whether large or small will be refused!

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: michaelr
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 08:32 PM

Thanks for the supportive voices; it's good to know my POV is not a lonely one.

For those who like Eddi, here's part 1 of a three-part documentary from 1992. Made long before she did her best work, it shows her already to be a mature and passionate performer.

I completely disagree with Joe Offer about Simple Soul. There's not a hint in Eddi's singing of Sinead O'Connor's strained, nasal tones. ER radiates warmth, emotion and, as the song says, a simple soul. One of Boo's best, and a perfect collaboration.

Lizzie above linked to the thread I started in 2002 when I first heard Eddi Reader. My wonderment has not abated since. I encourage you all to seek out more of her music. It is honest, direct, and from the heart.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Matt_R
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 09:55 PM

I love Eddi Reader. My wife and I had our first dance to Fairground Attraction's "Allelujah" at our wedding last month.

I also love the Trashcan Sinatras, which feature both her brother and her longtime boyfriend.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Effsee
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 10:43 PM

Sorry, I admit to being... GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 11:03 PM

Lost my cookie somehow!

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 03:15 AM

"There's plenty of wonderful music being made by folks younger than you. To enjoy it, all you need is an open mind."

Er....yes. It's difficult to disagree with that as it stands, but I can't quite see the relevance of it to Eddi Reader. She is 50, you know! Or is the above comment aimed only at the over 50s?

PLease clarify!

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 03:49 AM

Thanks for that link, michael..I hadn't arrived at that one yet.

So, Eddi's story is almost a folk song in itself. I'm watching Part 1 at the moment, where she's talking about her young life, growing up in the slums of Glasgow..but still feeling so happy, surrounded by a strong community...and then....they knocked the whole lot down.

They left the church however, standing proud in the middle of nowhere..with the new motorway dwarfing it.

And there's Eddi standing outside it, her arms outstretched, saying she can't really understand why they left the church there, because....and she throws her arms out at this point..."*where* is your congregation?"


This lady has had the toughest start in life, yet a warm family surrounding her all the time..and she's talking about how the whole family sang, all the time.....and she can't remember ever wanting to be anything *but* a singer.

I'm so glad she got her wish! :0)

And I've no problem with the way Eddi uses her arms when she sings, but I do have a real problem with people who seem to want others to be like robots and not move at all whilst they sing or talk. To me that is totally unnatural. I cannot speak without moving my arms and hands. For their information, many of us have arms which are deeply connected to our thoughts, and they are as much our voice as our vocal chords are.

She's a warm, expressive, thoughtful person, and I'd recommend everyone to watch the video that michael has linked to a few posts above this.

Thanks, michael! :0)

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:08 AM

I've never quite understood the "failed pop singer" label that seems to get attached to Eddi Reader - I would expect that the success of Fairground Attraction means she's got the financial security to do what she wants - and it looks like she is. Fair play to her...

Pete.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:09 AM

Yukkkkkkk
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Zen
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:22 AM

This thread is about Eddi Reader.

Amen to that!

Eddi Reader is excellent and always has been (IMHO of course).

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:51 AM

The thread is actually about whether Eddie Reader is undervalued. I think we all agree now that, whether you like her or not, she is definitely valued.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: evansakes
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 05:15 AM

Eddi Reader....a "failed pop singer" chancing to jump on the folk "gravy train"?

Or a folk-roots singer willingly accepting a small bit of commercial success when it came her way?

Me? I couldn't give a hoot either way! I'd contend she's a national treasure though and is always likely to put a smile on people's faces wherever she goes. I was not alone in being moved to tears when she duetted with Karen Matheson and Capercaillie on 'Ae Fond Kiss' at Cambridge a few years ago.

She was back again this year....and even led a "folk" workshop.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/cambridgefolkfestival/2009/folk-workshop/

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 06:06 AM

Yes, the duet with Karen Matheson was memorable. There's no doubt that Eddie Reader is one of the most hard-working people in music.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 06:38 AM

"The thread is actually about whether Eddie Reader is undervalued. I think we all agree now that, whether you like her or not, she is definitely valued."

Well I'd say that Eddi is only valued by those with open minds.

This thread has proved, yet again, that any singer who dares to have any form of commercial success is looked down upon by those who feel folk music should only be sung 'amongst us' in back rooms or tents.

You know, this thread has made me remember one of the strangest threads on the BBC. It was about Barbara Dickson...and I think I started it, although I can't recall exactly, as it was years back.

Well, I dared to say I loved Barbara's voice and suddenly, down flew The Dimentors....how they verbally kicked and abused her...And the strangest thing of all was when Ian Anderson came over to the thread, saying to me that even though we disagreed so vehemently about so many things, he was asking me really nicely to back off on this thread and leave it alone.   ????????

I think Barbara's producer may have come into the thread, again, I'm not exactly sure, so don't quote me on that.....And I sat there wondering what the hell was happening. The thread was taking the course that Barbara had chosen to go away from the folk scene, had then made it mega big time..and now, she was trying to get back into the folk scene again....And BOY, was that being frowned upon!

WHO are these people? What is wrong with them? WHY would they want to try to ensure that positive discussion of a person like Barbara Dickson would be smeared with this jealous, nasty, spiteful attitude all the time.

It is one thing to not like someone's music, as we all love different things, but in my book, it is a whole other thing to try and deliberately damage someone's career or make them feel bad about themselves...and I will never stop defending someone, if I see that happening.

Eddi is saying on this documentary (see michael's post).....about how she struggled terribly with the glitz and glamour of the pop world...of how she had to almost parade in front of Annie Lennox, when she was a backing singer for her, in different crazy outfits, when all she wanted to do was put on her jeans and a t shirt and sing her heart out.


Eddi's myspace

Barbara Dickson's myspace

Eddi's 'Bell Book and Candle' - beautiful!

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 07:47 AM

"Well I'd say that Eddi is only valued by those with open minds."

Vintage LC!

The sub-text is that if you don't happen to like what LC likes, then you are closed-minded. I've been here before!

For what it's worth, I don't particularly enjoy Eddi's stuff. Firstly, that does not automatically make me closed-minded, and secondly, it doesn't really affect the focus of this thread.

Chris Murray's comment, "I think we all agree now that, whether you like her or not, she is definitely valued", makes perfect sense and is a fitting conclusion to this thread.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Smedley
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:03 AM

I think Lizzie C is a camp icon.

More than Eddi Reader could ever hope to be.

This probably isn't very constructive.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:07 AM

"Vintage LC!
The sub-text is that if you don't happen to like what LC likes, then you are closed-minded."

Lollers!
Yep, she sure is good at it..

Eddi Reader is alright, but frankly it's all a wee bit too boring for me to get excited over. Err, in fact I tend to find most folk-pop dull and lack-lustre but hey, that's me. Call me small-minded if you like!

Are 'Les Negresses Vertes' considered 'folk'? I've been revisiting their music this weekend, and stuff by Gogol Bordello. Undervalued? I dunno, but it's a real blast.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:09 AM

Short extracts from Wikipedia - the font of all knowledge. If you want any more you can sing it yourself:-)

In 1988 the band signed to RCA/BMG records and released their first single, "Perfect", which became a UK number one, winning best single at the 1989 BRIT Awards. Their first album, The First of a Million Kisses, was also a success, reaching number two in the UK Albums Chart, and winning best album at the 1989 Brits.

Failed pop singer? I think not.

Awards
The Robert Burns project saw Reader awarded an MBE for outstanding contributions to the arts in the New Year's honours list of 2006[10].

In May 2007 she was awarded an honorary doctorate from the University of Strathclyde[11].

Later that year she was recognised for her contributions to music and to the education and encouragement of young musicians with an honorary doctorate and a Doctor of Letters from Glasgow Caledonian University[12].

In June 2008 she received another doctorate for her musical work, this time from the University of Stirling[13].

Undervalued? I think not.

Good singer? Personal taste.

Folk singer? Define folk!

Eddi is only valued by those with open minds? Should this be read as only those who agree with Lizzie? Again - I think not.

This is my final thread on Mudcat No 'think' about it this time. I am sure not. We can but live in hope...

DeG

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:15 AM

>>>>>"Well I'd say that Eddi is only valued by those with open minds."

Vintage LC!

The sub-text is that if you don't happen to like what LC likes, then you are closed-minded. I've been here before!

For what it's worth, I don't particularly enjoy Eddi's stuff. Firstly, that does not automatically make me closed-minded, and secondly, it doesn't really affect the focus of this thread.

Chris Murray's comment, "I think we all agree now that, whether you like her or not, she is definitely valued", makes perfect sense and is a fitting conclusion to this thread.<<<<<<

Sigh.....

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:18 AM

CS - Les Negresses Vertes are folk enough for me - I always thought of them as a French version of the Clash. Saw them live years ago and they were truly amazing.

Zobi La Mouche

Eddi Reader? Not my cuppa tea, but hardly undervalued.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:21 AM

Double sigh....posted too soon again...


No, what I meant by the 'open minds' part is that we (er...the open minded ones, that is) don't judge people on whether they've dared to become 'commercial'....but merely appreciate them for their contribution to music, and the music they make.

If you'd read my post correctly, you'd have ascertained that.

The problem here is that so many people apparently *know* **exactly** what I mean, even better than I do! It never ceases to amaze me.


I have an open mind, therefore I've never judged Seth Lakeman on his Warner Brothers deal, never chosen NOT to forgive him for it, as many on here seem to do....and if you don't believe that has happened to Seth, and the rest of those involved in Equation, then I'd suggest you read the entire chapter which Colin Irwin wrote about Seth Lakeman's career, in his wonderful book 'In Search of Albion'.

You may or may not like Eddi's music. That's fine by me. What is NOT fine by me is that she is judged, as was Barbara Dickson, on the fact that she also hit the bigtime....and therefore is not allowed back in The Secret Society of Traditional Music, run by The Secret Seven who put that 'radar' around it, to keep those they deem 'unpure' out.

:0)

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:25 AM

"This is my final thread on Mudcat No 'think' about it this time. I am sure not. We can but live in hope..."

Now now, David...don't be gettin' a-nasty. :0)

Besides, Joe removed my 'final thread' so that means that it never existed...

(and she disappeared off to think of thousands more threads to weave into tapestries of folkyfunandfrolics.)

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:30 AM

Spleen, LNV = great stuff!

"(and she disappeared off to think of thousands more threads to weave into tapestries of folkyfunandfrolics.)"

You are pure EVIL LC!!!
I've got all red in the face from laughing so hard at that... ;-D

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:40 AM

Eddie Reader, MBE and a doctorate, so what ? they have been giving Sean Connery awards for years and he can't even be arsed to live in his native country.

And don't be fooled, Lizzie doesn't really like folk music, all her ' discoveries ' are closer to pop than folk.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:59 AM

Nasty? Moi? Never! Just pointing out a few obvious flaws. On which subject...

What is NOT fine by me is that she is judged, as was Barbara Dickson, on the fact that she also hit the bigtime....and therefore is not allowed back in The Secret Society of Traditional Music, run by The Secret Seven who put that 'radar' around it, to keep those they deem 'unpure' out.

I presume the 'secret seven' is those who promote folk music in the media? Maybe the BBC - remember that place? Lets just look at the 'pure' folk music they promote by the simple means of seeing who they awarded things to -

2009 Lifetime achievement awards to James Taylor and Judy Collins. A pair who have obviously never seen the 'bigtime'.

2008 - Lifetime achievement award: John Martyn. Well, did you ever?

2007 - Lifetime Achievement Award: Pentangle. Never been in the public eye I guess.

2006 - Lifetime Achievement Award: Richard Thompson. No-hoper if I ever saw one.

2005 - Good Tradition Award: Steeleye Span. Surely not that rowdy electric band who achieved nothing?

And I have not even gone into other awards or categories.

Sorry, but we should put an end to the misnomer that anyone who suceeds is automaticaly excluded from the 'folk scene. Whatever that may be. The only exclusions from this imagined club are in the eye of the beholder.

DeG

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 09:22 AM

Ah yes, but....they are/were all within The Secret Circle...of Secret Friends of the Secret Society, so of course they were let in.... :0)

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 09:28 AM

I wonder if all Steve Martins film fans are being abusive about him for selling out to play banjo ?

Dave H

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 09:30 AM

Yes Sc and CS ty
Thanks for the heads up on LNV. Brilliant!
Love these nitpicky threads eh?
Ah well thats my mudcat fix for the day. Back to important things.
Al

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 10:32 AM

"I wonder if all Steve Martins film fans are being abusive about him for selling out to play banjo ?"

Not me - he does seem to play very well! :-)

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 10:34 AM

"Ah yes, but....they are/were all within The Secret Circle...of Secret Friends of the Secret Society, so of course they were let in.... :0)"


Mmkay, let me see if I've got this argument right...

The Secret Circle of the Secret Friends of the Secret Society of the Folk Police hate and resent and are jealous of everything that is commercially successful. Except when they don't and they're not. Everyone from James Taylor to Judy Collins to John Martyn to Richard Thompson is IN the SC of the SF of the SC of the FP, but everyone Lizzie champions is not, because the people Lizzie champions have achieved commercial success. Oh wait - all of those other people have achieved commercial success, too. So the SC of the SF (etc) likes commercial success. Except when it doesn't. And it likes the people who achieve it. Except when it doesn't. And all these people such as Eddi Reader, who have never been appreciated (except when they're being awarded honorary degrees, or playing mainstages at folk festivals, or generally having quite a robust and healthy following) need Lizzie to champion them because all the nasty Folky Fundamentalists in the SC of the SF (etc) are picking on them. Except when they're not, and in fact they weren't, until Lizzie started another chippie thread about how everyone had to like all of the music she likes, all the time, or else we're a bunch of closed-minded, insular Folkie Fundies who are determined to Keep People Out.

Have I got it right?


Eddi's a very nice lady, by the way - we bonded while washing the mud off our feet in the sinks at Cropredy a few years ago (she was a headliner, despite the fact that she is obviously loathed by the folk community). And I always did like Fairground Attraction - I'm of the right generation. So I guess I'm not in the Folk Police after all. Hurrah! Glad that's finally sorted.

By the way - it was the Equation that signed with Warner's over 10 years ago. Seth Lakeman as a solo artist signed to EMI. I have never, ever heard anyone have issues with the Equation because of their record label. There were certainly other issues, but that was not one of them. I will not talk about those issues on a public forum, as it would be inappropriate, but it was nothing to do with who they signed with, or when or why. Eliza Carthy also signed to Warners, and it didn't seem to do her any harm in the public's perception. Oh, I forgot: that's cause, despite commercial success, she's in the SC of the SF of the...

*yawn*

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 10:48 AM

"No, what I meant by the 'open minds' part is that we (er...the open minded ones, that is) don't judge people on whether they've dared to become 'commercial'....but merely appreciate them for their contribution to music, and the music they make."

That's fair enough LC. No real idea about folk artists/folk music industry as I've never really followed folk as a musical genre. Don't think to be fair, I've witnessed that much of it so far. But there certainly can be quite a high degree of cliquery to be found in many music circles which eschews the work of successful artists, seemingly purely because they incidentally happen to be successful.

Most popular music doesn't grab me, possibly because it can sound like the musical equivalent of Findus Crispy Pancakes. Yet, there are great bands and great tracks which are also highly successful too, and I can do my fair share of commercial music if it just happens to please me. For example, I'm quite a sucker for cheesy classic Dance tracks especially! How's that for commercial?

Open Your Mind

PS I don't actually like this particular track, but you may find the 'New World Order' conspiracy theory video up your ally... ;-)

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 10:57 AM

Clik-ka-dee doo dah


Spaw

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 10:57 AM

But there certainly can be quite a high degree of cliquery to be found in many music circles which eschews the work of successful artists, seemingly purely because they incidentally happen to be successful.

I can't speak of the rest of musical circles.

I haven't met many of these people. Having been involved in folk music of one sort or another for well over forty years and most people I have an awareness of the struggle it is to make any kind of living in any kind of music.

Most people are delighted when some people are seen as commercially succesful.

Of course there are some nutters around who will shout and bawl about people "selling out" or whatever.

But most people see them as irrelevant. And very often their perception is wrong anyway.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 11:03 AM

Thanks to Joe Offer for posting that YouTube link to Eddi Reader's version of "Red Red Rose". Which is overproduced mediocrity, but has a related link to Eva Cassidy's version, which I hadn't heard before and which is MUCH MUCH better (it didn't hurt that as well as having a far better voice she was a very good guitarist and had the good taste not to clutter the arrangement up with synth strings).

The Isla St Clair one wasn't bad, either.

The one good thing about the Eddi Reader video was that having a guitar to hold kept her hands from waving about.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 11:11 AM

I suppose whether you love or despise those artists who are commercialy sucessful depends on who introduced you to the genre in the first place. My first 'folk' concert was the Spinners at the Free Trade Hall in 1960plonk and I loved it. Seeing as the Spinners were, commercialy, very sucessful I suppose I will never be invited to join the Folk-Masons.

Lizzie - we need to break this conspiricy. Have you got Dan Brown's email addy? Ruth - can we use your plot? It's amazing and I never knew such things went behind the scenes at CS house. So complicated!

:D (eG)

(Sorry Joe. I know I shouldn't but I couldn't resist it)

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 11:16 AM

"By the way - it was the Equation that signed with Warner's over 10 years ago. Seth Lakeman as a solo artist signed to EMI. I have never, ever heard anyone have issues with the Equation because of their record label. There were certainly other issues, but that was not one of them. I will not talk about those issues on a public forum, as it would be inappropriate, but it was nothing to do with who they signed with, or when or why."


Yes, I'm fully aware that Seth is a solo artist. Thank you.

You know Ian Anderson. Ian knows Colin Irwin. Colin wrote the entire chapter on Seth, in his book 'In Search of Albion'...in that he states, very, very clearly, that Equation DID suffer because they were seen to have 'sold out' to the big boys.

Kate Rusby backed out of the deal at the last moment and went back to Yorkshire. She was sort of forgiven, but not quite...However, the rest of them, Seth, Sam, Sean, Cara and Kathryn suffered the backlash of The Secret Society of 'We Won't Let You Back In No Matter How Great You Are' members...who deem themselves far better than others...but who, in actual fact, are just a load of boring ol' farts...in my ever so humble opinion.

Probably best to read the book I guess.

I already have it and have read it several times over.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 11:31 AM

Umm, I've read the book. I don't need Ian Anderson as a link to Colin Irwin - Colin is a friend of mine. We've talked a lot about music, and what we like, and what we don't. We don't always agree, but we often make each other laugh. Colin told part of the story in that particular chapter, but not all of it - he told the story from a particular perspective. I was working in venues at the time, I had (and have) a different perspective on why The Equation had difficulty getting bookings.

If you're trying to say that Cara Dillon suffers from her association with The Equation, you're inhabiting a different universe to the one I'm in. She gets headlining spots all the time - the first time I saw her live was at Cambridge. She's represented by one of the best agents in the folk business. She wasn't even IN the Equation till fairly late in their trajectory.

Kathryn Roberts seems to have chosen a much more low-key career path for herself, and in recent years has, in fact, rarely been gigging at all. Which is unfortunate, as I've been trying to book her for a few years now. I'm hoping I'll be successful this summer, as I spoke to her brother about it recently.

SO this idea that "they haven't been let back in" is, in fact, more hype and fantasy.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 11:36 AM

I'm fully aware that Seth is a solo artist

Then you ought to have been aware that it was the band Equation that signed to Warner and that this particular Lakeperson, as a solo artist, signed to EMI much later.

I have never hear anyone complain about Warner as a label. Why would they? It's a label, not in itself an arbiter of musical direction. As Ruth says, it did no harm whatsoever as a staging post in Eliza Carthy's career. Colin Irwin reported in In Search Of Albion that Equation suffered after they sold out. If that means people criticised them because the quality of their music slipped off the lower end of the scale, he was of course right. Venues just stopped booking them. Not that I've read In Search Of . . . myself. That would be a bit like getting political analysis and social commentary from the Daily Mail. Ah, but you do . . .

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 12:06 PM

"I suppose I will never be invited to join the Folk-Masons.
Lizzie - we need to break this conspiricy. Have you got Dan Brown's email addy? Ruth - can we use your plot? It's amazing and I never knew such things went behind the scenes at CS house. So complicated!"

Oh my gawd, that would make such a blinding blockbuster!

>cue gravelly voice<

"The dark dusty catacombs beneath CSharp house" >cue: footsteps & shadows<
"the holy folk archives" >cue: usty dimly lit manuscripts<
"the evil ancient guardians who watch - hawk-like - in case the folk-graal be discovered by non-initiates.." >cue: crusty old folky with an accordian<
"But what is the dark mystery concealed behind it all? What liquid is really in those ceremonial tankards?" >cue: real ale - most probably, but in a certain light... wee'eell it get's you drunk...<

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 12:17 PM

Kate Rusby backed out of the deal at the last moment and went back to Yorkshire

I could have sworn she went and replaced Sally Barker in the Poozies.......who don't inhabit Yorkshire.

I know a lot about Equation - they gestated after I took the duo Kate and Kathryn and the trio Lakeman Brothers to do a gig in Braga, Portugal. Instant band formation for a foreign festival. It happens. Equation came shortly afterwards.

To update you on Kathryn, she seems very happy with the occasional gig with Sean. She has two lovely children - the twins Lilly and Poppy and as you can imagine they take up a lot of her time. They were at the carols at Dungworth yesterday. If only I had known this thread was coming up, I could have asked her about it.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 12:52 PM

I don't think that whichever label Equation signed up to alienated them from the folk fraternity although their publicity machine at the time might have done so. Their signing to Warner was covered in a lot of the Nationals and their spokesperson went along the lines of "we don't want to be associated with folk; folk is all chunky sweaters and real ale, we are a new fresh face....."and all the usual turgid bollocks. I think folkies were more dismayed than outraged that such a bright young band could sanction such a boring generalisation.
Anyway the one and only time that I saw Equation, a few years later, was at....a Real Ale Festival.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 02:00 PM

"Then you ought to have been aware that it was the band Equation that signed to Warner and that this particular Lakeperson, as a solo artist, signed to EMI much later."

Er...I did know. As well YOU know, Diane, as I've raised this fact about Equation and Colin Irwin over and again, but strangely, no-one mentions Colin's words...

Weird, huh?   

I've been aware of Equation for many moons. Got all their CDs, went to see Kathryn and the lads at their 10th Anniversary do at Exeter, wrote about it on the BBC board...where, as you seem to have forgotten, Diane, you used to slag Equation...and the Lakemans, off at every single opportunity, even getting told off by Jim Moray for being such a misery guts when he rejoiced about Seth being nominated for the Mercury....and then, of course, followed the Ian A. and cronies (imo) 'plot' to try and get Seth banned from that very award, which, as I recall, you also joined in with, saying that his CD had been released too early/late (fill in whichever fits)....

When I pointed out that no way would you have mentioned this fact, had it been one of your chosen ones, there was a silence that echoed around the BBC board.

You gave Seth a really hard time....so did Ian....who stated that both Seth and Show of Hands had somehow managed to 'get in under the radar' of the artists he considered to be 'traditional'...and all hell broke loose....

Short memory, huh?   :0)

And Dave, Kathryn and Sean used to live in Horrabridge, where I lived, at a different time...I spent many a happy hour in the Round The Bende Shoppe, which eventually became their home.

I also think that Kathryn Roberts is hugely undervalued by the traditional folk world. She has a superb voice and a great presence on stage.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 02:31 PM

Oh, you forgot to recount the saga of the Lakeperson-penned ditty about an albino bunny somehow getting nominated for "Best Traditional Track" in the Folk Awards, Go on, waste all the bandwidth left in the world and bore everyone. Though what the proliferation of Lakedwellers has to do with a Scottish singer who isn't in the slightest bit undervalued I fail to grasp.

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 02:36 PM

100