Imaginary places in song??

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Snuffy
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 08:44 AM

Cinomor?

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Mr Happy
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 08:56 AM

Kilgary Mountain [Mush a ring dum doo rum dah!]

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Tootler
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 08:59 AM

Mormond is a real place in North East Scotland, north of Aberdeen.

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Brian Peters
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 09:06 AM

"when Geordie stole 16 of the king's red deer and sold them in Bohemmy - does it mean Bohemia? and anyway is it Bohemmy or Bohenny?... "

It's usually Bohenny, which does mean Bohemia. I looked up a bit of stuff about Bohemia, and one of the things I noticed was that deer are so common there that they've become a pest, necessitating a cull. Not much hope for Geordie's business plan, then, even if he hadn't got hanged.

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: beeliner
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 09:08 AM

'"My El Dorado" (Graham Miles), and "Somewhere in Atargo (Otago?)"'

Otago is in New Zealand.

There are several Eldorados in the USA, surely others in Hispanic countries(?).

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 09:21 AM

The Land Where the Bong Tree Grows
Land of my Fathers
Land of Hope and Glory

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Mr Happy
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 09:25 AM

England's green unpleasant land

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: bubblyrat
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 09:36 AM

Well, Gillygilly ? I don't know,--Hossenfeffer,or Harsenpfeffer is,I think something like spicy Rabbit Stew, or Jugged Hare ( it's in a Bugs Bunny cartoon,where he nearly becomes the main ingredient !! ).
   And KatzenEllenBogen ?? Yes,it's a real town in what used to be East Germany ,according to German music critic Anne Marcordes of Bielefeld where I lived for a while. But not neccessarily by the sea !! Katzenellenbogen,that is,not Bielefeld !

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: beeliner
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 09:37 AM

"I looked up a bit of stuff about Bohemia, and one of the things I noticed was that deer are so common there that they've become a pest, necessitating a cull."

Sounds like Western Pennsylvania.

There are lots of Bohemians there, too, (the Czechs, not the artists), however in their case no cull has been suggested.

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 11:35 AM

Mormond Braes are the braes on Mormond Hill.

"Walker and Byker are real places on the outskirts of Newcastle", Yes, but Walker is on the banks of the Tyne, and Byker is up the hill from it, so Walker Hill and Byker Shore (as sung by Bert Lloyd) are non-existant.

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Marje
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 12:19 PM

Beeliner: thanks for the info on Otargo, I didn't know that (probably because I didn't know how to spell it).

Re "My El Dorado", it's still valid for that particular song, because the whole pont is that he never found his El Dorado, his dream. Very sad, wistful song about getting older.

Marje

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: C. Ham
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 01:11 PM

Fogarty's Cove

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 03:17 PM

If I can persuade you that Ilkley Moor is fictional, will all you Southerners stop singing it?
Anyway, it's a small corner of Rombald's moor.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: GUEST,suegorgeous away
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 03:34 PM

Jim - cool! so when did Cill Stefeen last appear, and is it due to appear again any time soon? could plan my next trip to Ireland around it...

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: frogprince
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 08:21 PM

The deck of the Antelope. (Barrett's Privateers)

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Jan 10 - 12:29 AM

Pennies from HEAVEN - My Blue HEAVEN - Everybody talkin' 'bout HEAVEN ain't goin' there ...

The gates of HELL fly open & the Devil laughs for joy...

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: GUEST,Allen in OZ
Date: 23 Jan 10 - 12:58 AM

" Lonely Street" Willie Nelson



AD

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: GUEST,Allen in OZ
Date: 23 Jan 10 - 01:01 AM

Oh yes

" Moody River "

AD

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Paul Burke
Date: 23 Jan 10 - 02:53 PM

"Walker Hill and Byker Shore (as sung by Bert Lloyd) are non-existant. " .. drifting into Monday Greens, I looked in one of my wife's ancient manuscript song books, and read the line "Bike a hill and walk ashore"...

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 23 Jan 10 - 04:04 PM

Sue,

> For some odd reason, despite following the signs, I couldn't find it! drove round and round, and gave up in the end, frustrated... I wondered if the leprechauns had hidden it for the day... <

A clear case of the seachrán sidhe (spelling?), the fairy straying, when the people-whose-name-shouldn't-be-mentioned turn the road around. The standard remedy is to take off your coat or jacket and put it on inside out.

Richard

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Jan 10 - 04:08 PM

Purely imaginary places:

"Port o' Dreams" as C. Fox Smith's version of Fiddler's Dream.

"Morrow" as in "The Train to Morrow."

Davy Jones Locker

No longer existing places:

Whatever "Mr. Peobody's coal train hauled away" in Country Roads; it's no longer there.

"Sailortown" mentioned in many sea songs and which has been largely replaced by dockmalls and condominiums.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 10 - 06:09 PM

Richard

I knew in my bones it was something like that! and then I thought, maybe they have a very good reason for not letting me go there today...

Does it work with cardigans too? :)

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: GUEST,suegorgeous
Date: 23 Jan 10 - 06:10 PM

och, begorrah begosh, forgot AGAIN... that was me last post (I shall be SO glad to get home next week!)

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Mr Happy
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 08:03 AM

Nirvana

Shangrila

Valhalla

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: GUEST,Long Lankin
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 08:18 AM

The song refers to "Byker Hill" and "Walker Shore" not the other way around. So they are real geopraphic locations - "shore" referring to the riverside

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 08:31 AM

Funnily enough what I actualy said was that I assumed the Hill and Shore to be colliery names but on further investigation it seems that the Colliery was Walker Hill - Look it up yourselves. I'm not doing all your homework. I have also found a reference to Byker Hill being a place in 1794. From the North of England Instiute of mining records -

Reference: NRO 3410/Wat/3/110/11
Creation dates: 31 Dec 1794

Scope and Content
Terms of a lease of a piece of ground at Byker Hill from John Lawson to Messrs Bells, Brown and Co

It is also pretty reasonable to assume that, locally, the Tyne's edge at Walker would be called Walker Shore. That's my story and I'm sticking to it:-)

So, they may not exist now but they would have done at one time!

Cheers

DeG

(Still in MooMoo Land)

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Mr Happy
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 08:52 AM

Don't yez mean

Biker Bill and Walter Shaw
[The Kipper Family]

When I've had enough of Penny
I would call on Gillian
I would take her for a ride
The bonny lass all on my pillion

Biker Bill and Walter Shaw
Jollier lads you never saw
Biker Bill and Walter Shaw
Jollier lads you never saw

When I first came to the pits
I found me bike was all in bits
Then along come Walter Shaw
He's the man who tunes me Harley

Walter's worth his weight in gold
That's more than two hundred pounds
He did a skid without his lid
And now he's only half a crown

If I had another gill
Then Penny wouldn't ride along with me
She hates it when I drink and drive
She loves a man who is T.T.

Walter Shaw he had a pig
He hit it with a shovel and it danced a jig
Now he has been took away
By a man from the RSPCA

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Boho
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 09:27 AM

Sugar Mountain (Neil Young)

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: C. Ham
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 09:45 AM

Whatever "Mr. Peobody's coal train hauled away" in Country Roads; it's no longer there.

Mr. Peabody's coal train was in John Prine's "Paradise," not John Denver's "Country Roads."

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Mr Happy
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 09:46 AM

........I heard someone sing it as 'Mr Coalbody's Pee Train!'

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 10:07 AM

Here's what Bert Lloyd sang, as opposed to "Byker Hill and Walker Shore", both of which I visited frequently when I lived in Newcastle. If Walker Hill and Byker Shore were actual collieries, I shall be delighted to stand corrected.

WALKER HILL AND BYKER SHORE

Oh, Walker Hill and Byker Shore, me boys,
Collier lads for evermore, me boys,
Oh, Walker Hill and Byker Shore, me boys,
Collier lads for evermore.

My lassie, she sits ower late up,
My hinnie, she sits ower late up,
My Ginnie, she sits ower late up,
Betwixt the pint pot and the cup.

And down the pits we'll go, me laddies,
And down the pits we'll go, me marrows;
We'll try our will and use our skill
To cut them ridges down below.

My lassie, she is never near;
My hinnie, she is never near,
And when I call out, "Where's me supper?"
She orders up another cup of beer.

Hey! Ginnie, come home to your little baby!
Hey! Hinnie, come home to your little baby!
Hey! Ginnie, come home to your little baby!
With a pint of beer all under your arm.

The poor coal-cutter gets two shillin',
The deputy gets half-a-crown,
And the overman gets five-and-sixpence
Just for ridin' up and down.

As sung by A L Lloyd on Transatlantic LP XTRA5023, "The Best of A L Lloyd".

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 10:24 AM

C.Ham-

Good catch, Country Roads and Paradise!

Here's a lovely imaginary place in a gospel song:

Words and music by F.M. Lehman © 1914
Rodeheaver's Gospel Songs, © 1922, pp. 34-35

No Disappointment in Heaven


There's no disappointment in heaven,
No weariness, sorrow or pain;
No hearts that are bleeding or broken,
No song with a minor refrain;
The clouds of our earthly horizon
Will never appear in the sky,
For all will be sunshine and gladness,
With never a sob nor a sigh

Chorus:

I'm bound for that beautiful city,
My Lord has prepared for His own;
Where all the redeemed of all ages
Sing "glory" around the white throne;
Sometimes I grow homesick for heaven,
And the glories I there shall behold:
What a joy that will be when my Savior I see,
In that beautiful city of gold.

We'll never pay rent for our mansion,
The taxes will never come due;
Our garments will never grow threadbare,
But always be fadeless and new;
We'll never be hungry nor thirsty,
Nor languish in poverty there,
For all the rich bounties of heaven
His sanctified children will share. (CHO)

They'll never be crepe on the doorknob,
No funeral train in the sky;
No graves on the hillsides of glory,
For there we shall nevermore die;
The old will be young there forever,
Transformed in a moment of time;
Immortal we'll stand in His likeness,
The stars and the sun to outshine. (CHO)

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 10:24 AM

Sue, Sorry, missed your post.
No more details at present - Hy Brasil is the 'fourth' Aran Island.
Jim

Hy Brasil, the Isle of the Blessed, is possibly a legacy from ancient paganism, which placed its Tirnan-oge, The Land of Youth, in the waves 'on the west side down from Aran, where goes the sun to its couch.' The desire for the ageless, deathless land prevailed all up the western coast, and was strong in Kilkee in 1868-78, and perhaps even still. I myself saw the mirage several times in 1872 giving the prefect image of a shadowy island with wooded hills and tall towers springing into sight for a moment as the sun sank below the horizon. I have also heard from Kilkee fishermen legends, like that embodied in the verses of Gerald Griffin, of men starting seaward to reach its fairy shores, and never returning.

Another magic island was Kilstuitheen, or Kilstuiffen, in Liscannor Bay. On the southern shore, in 1839, there was said to have been an ecclesiastical city swallowed up by the earthquake that split Innis Fitae into the present three islands, which suggests derivation from O'Conor's then recent version of the various Irish Annals. On the northern shore the tradition was fuller. Kilstuitheen sank when its chieftain lost its golden key in battle, nor will it be restored until the key is recovered from its hiding place, under the ogham-inscribed gravestone of 'Conan' on Mount Callan. (When that place was dug out only bones and rusted iron were found.) The island, with its golden-roofed palaces, churches, and towers, may at times be seen shining far below the waves, but once in seven years it rises above them, and those who see it then are said to die before its next appearance. The fishermen

    'point how high the billows roll above lost Kilsafeen,
    Its palaces and towers of pride
    All buried in the rushing tide
    And deep-sea waters green.'

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 10:27 AM

Well, I did say you need to look it up yourself but I am feeling generous!

Walker Hill Colliery One out of two ain't bad.

Besides, don't all collieries have the roofs shored up so Byker shore would have existed as well:-)


DeG

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 10:29 AM

Big Rock-Candy Mountain?

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 10:30 AM

Oh, I see someone beat me to that one.

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 10:33 AM

BTW - I lived in Whitley Bay and worked in Newcastle centre for a year so got to know all the devious cut throughs around Byker and Walker when the coast road was clogged up and the fact that neither Hill or Shore exist today is spot on - But then again Inkerman, Sebastapol and Jericho no longer exist at Ribblehead but they did once:-)

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: GUEST,sue gorgeous in hannover
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 04:09 PM

Jim

"I myself saw the mirage several times in 1872"

Err, really... ?? wouldn't have put you at QUITE that age meself... :)

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Joybell
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 04:39 PM

The Blue Side of Lonsome.
I believe it's right next to the Heart Break Hotel.
Probably a long way from "My Isle of Golden Dreams"
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Joybell
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 04:40 PM

e
left out the e

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 04:51 PM

Always thought it was Walker Shaw, shaw means coppice or wooded area Shaw

It is also used in Hamish Henderson's 51st Division's farewell To Sicily.
Fare weel ye banks o' Sicily, fare ye weel, ye valleys an' shaws

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Rafflesbear
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 04:53 PM

Cockaigne - as in Goodbye Cockaigne

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 08:53 AM

left out the e

You know the joke about that, Joybell?

A man's wife dies and during the funeral arrangle ments he tell's teh monumental mason that, as a very Godly person, she would like 'She was thine' carved on the tombstone.

When he see's it for the first time it says 'She was thin'.

Of course he goes to cmplain and tells the mason that he had left out the 'e'.

On the next visit the inscription says 'E, she was thin'...

:D (eG)

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Mr Happy
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 09:14 AM

David el Gnomo,

'E, she was thin'...

LOL!!

[the old jokes're the best!]

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Mr Happy
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 06:54 AM

On a dark desert highway
Cool wind in my hair
Warm smell of colitis
Rising up through the air
............
........
........
Welcome to the Hotel California!

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 09:34 AM

From Wikipedia:

"Oleanna" is a Norwegian folk song that was translated into English and popularized by former Weavers member Pete Seeger.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 09:59 AM

Back to Bohenny in Georgie/Geordie.
In Vaughan Williams' song collection made in Ccambridgeshire during the years 1906-1908 he picked up a version of Georgie where the deer sales were made in Den/Fen Caney. ( It depends on how you read his handwriting, which was ambiguous at best.)
It stands to reason that local singers would never have heard of Bohenny ( I can't think of anywhere local with a name like that) but a Fen Caney would have been plausible.( Fens are rather common thereabouts!)

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 10:35 AM

John, I'd have thought it was Walker Shaw too if I hadn't seen it written down. They Sassunachs aye talk gey funny.

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: GUEST,2581
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 07:07 PM

Whatever "Mr. Peobody's coal train hauled away" in Country Roads; it's no longer there.

Mr. Peabody's coal train was in John Prine's "Paradise," not John Denver's "Country Roads."

True. In addition, all of the geographical references in Prine's song - Muhlenberg County, the Green River, the town of Paradise, etc. - do exist. And if you have ever seen Muhlenberg County (KY), you would realize that Mr. Peabody's coal train has, in fcat, hauled away half of the county... The strip mining there is horrendous...

Subject: RE: Imaginary places in song??
From: Leadfingers
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 07:27 PM

100