BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 04:10 AM

Bobbird old friend,

Hain't you larned yet to take this to the.... huh! You know where Ah goin' widdat! :~)

Ants. With me, it's ants. But I still don't tolerate 'em in my house.

The Lawd putted us'n's in charge of the creeturs. Iss a hard job. You a good man fer it tho.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 05:26 AM

Where are the wild turtles in the UK, Dave?

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 07:52 AM

Well, I think we got all yer turtles back here in my woods, Big Al... Seems I see one every time I'm back there... Fortunately, other than the one that I killed the others are not a danger to my cats... We have "Eastern Box Turtles" everywhere and water turtles in the pond... One keeps trying to lay eggs in places I mow so I've had to move her to more appropriate egg laying areas...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 08:03 AM

Turtle eggs...yum!

I'll come visit and help you catch a big 'un. We'll make some turtle soup. Take a few days, though, but I'll bring some beer and you can drink Iron City.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 09:55 AM

These preachers, do they actually put a snake right in their mouth?

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 11:32 AM

Snake handlers are dieing out... Literally... Another one died this week... Seems that they didn't get the memo from God telling 'um that handling snakes can kill ya'...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: kendall
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 11:54 AM

Saying that democrats want gun control is not so.We want NUT CASE control.         

Bobert, years ago I hit and killed a cat that was in the middle of the road. I didn't even attempt to miss it. I've felt bad ever since.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: olddude
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 12:19 PM

sorry Bobster, good eating critter though
Yea I have had to do that a few times myself. Now for some turtle meat. They call it cooter down south. I get me BBQ sauce

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: olddude
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 12:26 PM

I love the critters, they use to wander up in my yard back home. There was a big river behind the house. Some of them were the size of bushel basket round ... Mean critter hiss ... we would get them into a big cardboard box and toss them back in. A couple of time I had to take them out only because of kids and dogs and cats and could not get them under control. I know you feel bad Bob but you did right on this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Becca72
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 12:36 PM

"cooter" is something entirely different in this neck of the woods. if he's chasing it out in the woods, P-Vine is gonna be some pissed...

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 02:27 PM

Many years ago, I was driving a friend back to Wichita from Kansas City, where he had a major eye treatment....he really shouldn't have been driving.

We were in his VW Beetle, and it was dark...maybe 9PM. He was sitting in the passenger seat. Across the road ran a raccoon! Before I had time to do anything, Tony **grabbed the steering wheel** and yanked it to the right! Simultaneously, *I* grabbed the wheel back and we hit the raccoon!...and the little car did 2-3 two-wheel leans as I regained control. Closest I ever came to turning over in a ditch. I 'think' I might have avoided the raccoon if I hadn't had help.


I believe I said (after I began breathing again) something like: "Tony, you really should let the driver deal with things like that."... and he said "Sorry.."

As far as I remember, I had never hit anything else with a car except bugs on the window. I regret the raccoon, but like bugs, he was doing what he does, and took his chances. It doesn't seem to me any different if I am the proximate cause of his demise, rather than a hunter or a wolf. It 'feels' a bit different because I am not a hunter, and would rather nature decided the lifespan of critters.... but since I do NOT hunt, for food OR sport, I know that I make very little difference in the ecological balance.

You know... a million years ago, our remote ancestors killed and/or ate 'things' with no concept of 'karma'. Sometime in the last several thousand years an idea gradually developed in some places...and in religions like Jainism... that all 'organisms' had...ummm..'souls'?? or 'metaphysical essence'?? that somehow we had no business interfering with. (I knew a lady who wouldn't kill roaches... but would scoop them up and throw them out in the snow, where "God would decide what to do with them.") *sigh*
One wonders exactly when & how "All creatures great & small" got ...ummm...whatever it is they got that gives US karma if we mess with it. (Yes... my own opinion is that only **common sense** should decide what is 'fair game' for food and elimination.)

In my extended opinion, Bobert did his best to use common sense... which cost one turtle, and probably avoided worse situations.

Get off of the ledge, Bobert.. you have done far more good in your life than bad... I think the spirit of the turtle will be fine.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 02:54 PM

Well, about 25 years ago I was fishing on the Po River in Spotsyvania, Va. where my in-laws had a real nice weekend getaway... I had paddled up the river to a real nice fishing spot and was sittin' in the canoe with it tied to this perfect log...

A wasp seemed to also think that that particular space was his and let me know... Not in a mean way but in a manner that could have escalated... After about 4 or 5 attempts to get my attention he landed on the log and I took the oar and kinda severed his head section from the body and stinger... Well, no kinda about it... I mean, I did it...

Well I went up stream a couple hundred yards to another good spot but the fish just weren't bitin' up there so I returned to the wasp spot as the sun was getting lower in the sky and the fish started hittin' just about everything I threw at them... Well, one of them was hooked good but swam right under the log where I had the canoe tied and I needed to step out on that log and see if I could pull him out from under it... Soon as I stepped out on that log I felt something that felt like electricity and instantly knew I'd been wasp stung... Sho nuff, the back half of that wasp I had cut in half somehow still knew how to sting and sting it did...

That the end of Bobert's true Karma story...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 03:41 PM

Keep the cats inside.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 03:54 PM

They won't come in... They are outdoor cats and scared of the house...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 04:28 PM

Bobert.... I was stung by a dead wasp I didn't even kill! Was tryin' to fix a leak in an attic air-conditioner and feelin' around for rough spots... and ZAPPP! Dead yellow-jacket in the water got me good! Worst sting I ever had, and I wasn't guilty of nothin'!

Does Karma come retro-active to any human who disturbs a watery grave?

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 05:35 PM

I'll help push Bobert off the ledge.

Turtle lover.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 06:10 PM

Bobert -

Like you, I'm reluctant to harm 'bout any critters except out of necessity.

In your present case, if you dumped him in a crik you can consider the whole of your actions not as the dispatching of one big turtle, but as the providing of an easy meal for a dozen smaller ones.

Of course when the smaller ones all grow up there'll be a bunch of big turtles (bein' well fed an' all), and they may form up in ranks and set out to investicate the scene of the crime - sort of a communally organized great turtle drive like I think I heard about ... .

Might be ya oughta run a disc on that road where it happened, just to scatter the evidence. I can't think of many pleasant resolutions for havin' a dozen 30 or 40 pound turtles knockin' on yer back door a few years hence if they track ya down ...

It might be hard to tell if they want revenge, or just another snack.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 09:44 PM

: Talk Me Down from the Ledge..

Oh, just fuckin' jump!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Janie
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 09:57 PM

Life is full of tough choices. It speaks well of you that you question yourself. Come on down off the ledge, bro.

I wasn't there. I'm more familiar with turtles and probably would not have made the same choice because I would have assessed the risk as much smaller. I'm also a bit darwinian and would have figured that while it was unlikely the cats would have messed with the turtle, if they were stupid enough to have done so, well....

Having said that, I killed a baby snake a number of years ago because it may have been a copperhead, but I didn't have enough knowledge to know. It was on my back steps. I had a 4 year old child. I don't know snakes. We had black racers all around, even living in the crawl space, but they were eating the voles that were decimating my garden, and I like black snakes, even when we surprise each other and scramble wildly in opposite directions. If a snake is black, I know it is some species black snake. If a snake is green, I know it is a green snake. If the snake looks like a humongous earthworm, only more snakey, I know it is a worm snake. Otherwise, I don't know.

I live in copperhead country. My father-in-law nearly lost his foot from the necrosis caused by a copperhead bite. A good friend lost three fingers and a portion of his hand from a copperhead bite.

This was a baby snake, and patterned. I popped a clear plastic container over it and went to fetch a neighbor to ask if she thought it might be a copperhead. She opined it was a baby copperhead. She didn't know a lot about snakes, but she knew more than I did. I killed it, and put it in the freezer to save until a good friend who is a naturalist and keeps snakes for educational displays and school workshops came by for supper. Turns out it was a baby black racer. They are apparently patterned in infancy. It still bothers me that I killed it. But I would do the same again if I were unable to identify the snake and had any concern it could be a copperhead.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 10:03 PM

Yeah, I killed one snake in my life and it was a copperhead... Lived under a concrete pad and the P-Vine had to have her hands a foot away from it's hole...

Did, however, capture two rattlesnakes and relocated them both...

Also relocated dozens of turtles and snakes over the years... Yeah, I'm the guy who dodges on-coming cars to rescue them...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Janie
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 10:27 PM

And the snappers and box turtles are definitely on the spring move here in the southern part of heaven otherwise known as North Carolina. I have 40 miles of country two lane roads to drive to and from work. The past 2, maybe 3 weeks, I see anywhere from 3 to 8 snappers and box turtles crossing the highway on my daily commute. If I stopped for all of them, I'd never get to work! Narrowly missed a snapper this morning. On-coming traffic so I was limited in how much I could swerve to miss it, and wasn't sure I had until the car didn't go bumpbang-bumpbang. Noticing over the past couple of years that people are more careful about not running over turtles - haven't seen any roadkill turtles this year so far- pretty remarkable. Seems folks still go out of their way to run over snakes, however.

I ran over a squirrel this evening. Absolutely unavoidable unless I was prepared to die instead. I hate having to make that choice, but don't regret the choice.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 05:17 PM

Snake's good eatin', too.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 05:32 PM

Rap... I prefer lobster, crab, clam. They ain't so ugly.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Janie
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 05:49 PM

That's what I hear. Never have eaten snake, and never have heard or read about eating any snake but rattlesnake. I expect snake tastes like snake, however, which means, like chicken.

Maggie, good to hear I ain't the only "girl" on Mudcat who has skinned a roadkill.   Have you ever read John McPhee's "Travels in Georgia"?

Groundhogs are hard to skin, and often not large enough, but groundhog hides, when large enough, make for excellent frame drums. Thin, tough, and bright tones. Since they are common roadkills, I have stopped and collected and skinned a few, though I would not assert "more than a few."

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Janie
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 05:53 PM

I dunno, gnu. Define "ugly." *grin*

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 11:16 PM

Yo
u're absolutely sure it was a snapping turtle and not a gopher tortoise?

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 07:13 AM

David Holt tells a story about his Granny talking on a "Hog a phone."

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 02:54 PM

Janie, of all of the Mudcatters you're acquainted with, I suspect you, Bobert, maybe BWL and I are the only ones who might claim to have actually skinned out anything. :)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 02:58 PM

I've skinned many a deer.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 03:08 PM

I've skinned (and gutted) deer, rabbits, squirrels, fish....

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 04:22 PM

Of course! I should have thought about the hunters in the group. That adds a few more.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: maeve
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 04:45 PM

In this world-wide, multi-generational community called Mudcat there are many members with many unadvertised skills and experiences.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: gnu
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 05:21 PM

Hard ta skin? Well, of course roadkill is hard ta skin. Iffin ya want easy ta skin, ya gotta run over em yerself and skin em right away.

Add me to the skinner list... years ago. Nowadays, I buys em gutted, skinned and butchered.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 06:10 PM

Yeah, it's easier on creaky, crotchety old men that way. Why, I remember when we'd chase 'em down on foot, jump on their backs, and cut their throats (not hard with deer and such, but more challenging with rabbits and squirrels). Back then we were REAL hunters! None of this namby-pamby camouflage! No! We hunted naked, smeared with mud, like nature intended! And we chipped our own knives and spear points out of rocks! I remember one time I was out there and had a aptosaurus surrounded it was just me... snoresnoresnore....

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Janie
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 08:03 PM

Groundhogs be hard to skin whether fresh or "swelled up just right!"

Got to admire an animal as tough and resilient as a groundhog, even while cussing about the damage done to the garden.

Bobert, you don't mind a bit of thread-drift, do you?

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 08:08 PM

Heck no!!! Especially fir a puffed up roadkill ground hog... They can be a challenge... Smell real bad, too, when they puffed up... Much better fresh...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 08:20 PM

'I live in copperhead country. My father-in-law nearly lost his foot from the necrosis caused by a copperhead bite. A good friend lost three fingers and a portion of his hand from a copperhead bite.'

Move for godsake! That place sounds dangerous!

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: gnu
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 08:31 PM

Hard to skin fresh? I just can't get with that. I never skinned one but, I just can't get with that. But, I'll never know on accounta I ain't never skinn(ed)in one.

Of course, that bges the question, "Why?" Ere they good eatin?

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 08:48 PM

Well, gn-ze... I don't eat 'um either but my friends eat 'um and they say, "Tastes like chicken"... Don't smell 'er look like chicken... Looks like ground hog...

BTW, groundhog is a nasty animal... He snorts and weezes like a pig and can make his snoot look just like a wild hog when he feels threatened...

But he is also very smart... Okay, he don't do cars too well but if he is in yer garden he knows you want to get him and so he is sneaky...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 09:18 PM

Groundhog is eatin' meat. Kinda like possum, it's pretty greasy, but beggars can't be choosers.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 09:30 PM

Cook him on the Weber and the grease drops into the fire and burns and cooks him even hotter... Yeah, baby!!! Ol' hog grease become cookin' fuel... Gotta keep hoggie up over 300 degrees fir 2 hours to get hoggie ready fir eatin'...

Smoked hog okay, too, but hog needs about four hours of smokin'... Same with all them kinda critters...

Now I don't eat 'um but Mr. Clifford used to eat 'um back in the holler... He told me all about cooking them critters... He didn't eat no skunk but he ate everything else...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 09:46 PM

They weren't called "apatosaurus" way back then, they were called "brontosaurus".

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 09:51 PM

BBQ'd brontosaurus... Yummy... Or so I'm told...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: kendall
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 07:30 AM

Raparee, you had knives? we would have killed for a knife! We had to let our nails grow and use them to rip the prey apart!

By the way, I gave up hunting in 1982.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 09:16 AM

Very few people hunt anymore... Hunting takes skill and patience...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 06:25 PM

Do what they do out here, Bobert: get yourself a million-power scope and .50 caliber rifle and snipe for game.

But, event today my family does things the hard way: stalking, trailing, not shooting farther than 50 or 100 yards away....

Kendall, I wasn't clear about the knives. We used teeth we'd yanked out of the mouth of a living T-Rex. To do this we had to drop down onto the beastie from a tree, wrap out legs around its neck, and pull one or two of the bigger teeth from its mouth. My brother, who always did things the hard way, used to hide in a hole, jump onto the animal's leg, and rip out some toe claws. Sometimes we'd double-team the thing and do both at once -- THAT makes rodeo bull-riding or tiger wrasslin' something for wussies.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Janie
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 11:02 PM

Gnu, while I have shot and eaten a few groundhogs that were decimating my veggie garden, and also eaten a couple grabbed from the dogs right after they were shaken hard enough to have theirs neck broken but before the dog otherwise had a go at it, I've mostly stopped for fresh (relatively speaking) roadkills. I don't like killing animals, and if I feel like I have to, I feel obligated to eat the meat. Groundhogs are actually fairly decent eating. I prefer them to possum, squirrel, or rabbit.

Haven't myself skinned possums or squirrels. Have skinned groundhogs, cotten-tail rabbits, white-tailed deer and sheep, in addition to groundhog. Rabbits are the easiest to skin, and next are sheep. The hides slip off as if you are peeling off a sock from your foot. Deer is pretty easy, and since the hides are large, having to risk cutting or nicking the hide along the legs or the edges from the belly cut as you pull it away doesn't ruin it for drumheads. Groundhogs do not like to let go of their hides, plus they are small. The hides don't peel off easily and reguire much gentle tugging and careful knife work to free the hide at a number of different points. The hide is very tough, but also very thin, and it is difficult to skin the animal without piercing the hide in inopportune places if what one has in mind is a drumhead.

I don't hunt, though I would if I had to. I don't like killing, skinning or butchering animals. I don't make drums anymore, but when I did, I was darn good at it. I've been out of that business for nearly 20 years but there are still people who contact me, wanting me to make them a frame drum. Groundhog hides are excellent hides for small drums, when you can find a groundhog big enough. Since that is hard to do, you don't want to risk any knife nicks at all in any part of of the hide, even the edges.

We mostly made ashikos and used deer hides collected from local taxidermists In truth, goat hides make for a better drumhead for the ashikos. Deer hides are thick for the size of the animal, hard to stretch sufficiently, and harder to dry out to "tune." Also less fragile and more durable, and that matters with a traditionally laced drum that is very labor intensive to rehead if the head breaks.

I won't go into the dangerous finger and hand infections we repeatedly endured from fleshing and dehairing deerhides we soaked in garbage cans full of water and ashes. The ex and I are both lucky to still have ten digits on each hand.   

Some day the tale of how I spent my wedding day and honeymoon may seem funny enough to repeat.

Anyhoo. I am all but vegetarian from all my years of understanding first hand what is really involved when I stroll the meat counter at the grocery store. There are things I know I can do because I have done them. I value those experiences. I learned those skills by choice, not by necessity. I hope necessity never dictates I repeat them.

For classes on preparation of dinosaur parts, we must convene the Mudcat Tavern and implore Mmario to give a few cooking lessons.