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MIDI Volunteer Sought
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 30 Dec 03 - 11:25 PM Hold the phone folks! I will answer all questions tomorrow. I will be singing my way through them. With all due respect to Jerry, he does black gospel-- later versions of what frequently started out as spirituals, but utually in a much faster tempo than the originals. I do spirituals. I'll comment on tempo of course, to guide the next batch. As far as voices, I'm mulling that, too, and I can adjust them as needed, for instance two voices on a call/response would make sense for contrast. Lemme have a day with the ones already done, OK????!!!!??? Mark-- they were aurally transmitted. If you read Allen's notes, and others from the time, they frequently were made up on the spot when the inspiration struck, and learned only by the people of the immediate area. Like sea chanties (they are after all work songs as well as their other purposes), these songs lived in the moment. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 30 Dec 03 - 11:29 PM PS, that is a great tip on the filenaming, Mark-- Mary, Mmario, can you shift to that style? I'll rename what I have so far. Re: variants-- Mary, suggest you ask Mmario how he handled, ask him to send you a sample of how he's doing them, and you send him yours, too? Nighty night! ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: GUEST,Jon Date: 30 Dec 03 - 11:45 PM Mary, as far as I know "snap" is just an entry setting on Cakewalk, a little like a "snap to grid" idea with some graphic programs. The size of this "grid" is set by (I think - can't be bothered to look now) what I think is the "res" setting - the one where you have a drop down list of note lengths. In most cases, if you have that set at 1/32 note, things will work out but on odd occasions you may need to alter a note length the way you describe. If you want to stand any chance of a MIDI displaying on other systems without odd note lengths and positions occuring, I'd be very wary of positioning dots without "snap" and careful over changing lengths. You can make things sound "perfect" - the beauty of MIDI but in the process put a note lets say on 1.23 beats and make it a 1.7 note... Things impossible with notation. Jon |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Pied Piper Date: 31 Dec 03 - 07:07 AM I don't think you need more than a GM re-set message, and I play mid files made on my trusty old Atari ST without any sysex info with no problems. TTFN PP |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 31 Dec 03 - 07:53 AM Jon, what I meant was, with snap on, the eighth note is displayed simultaneously with the first sixteenth note. (I'm not sure how it sounds. Also, I'm not sure what the resolution is, but it's the best for the notes I'm entering.) When I enter a sixteenth note and then increase its length to an eighth note, it will be adjacent to the first sixteenth note and appear as an eighth note (and have the right sound). I also notice this problem when there are a lot of rests and syncopation. It's possible to change the resolution for a few measures, but for me it's just easier to enter a note at the correct position, then change its length. I like the numbering idea too. I noticed on one song that there was a "harmony" note in one place in the melody line. I left it out because it sounded confusing. |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 31 Dec 03 - 08:22 AM Susan, I noticed this comment on the page where the scans are: We had some thought of indicating with each the tempo of the different songs, but have concluded to print special directions for singing by themselves. It should be remarked, however, that the same tune varied in quickness on different occasions. "As the same songs," writes Miss McKim, "are sung at every sort of work, of course the tempo is not always alike... |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: GUEST,MMario Date: 31 Dec 03 - 08:52 AM as far as variants go - the one I have done so far was several measures; and had an indicated place of origin - so I did it up as a seperate midi. I noticed in one tune that the transcriber had indicated a variant by stem direction. I went with the notes that followed the stem direction of the main tune. As with folk tunes - these midis can only be a guide - In the section on singing the tunes the author mentions that temp could vary widely between singers or occasions. Likewise the variations on a tune are sometimes due to the words of the particular verse. My feeling is the midi's will be an asset and guide - but can't indicate EVERY variation - at least not without extensive additional notes - much of which would probably be guesswork at this remove. (My opinion - but backed by what I have read about spirituals, gospel, folk, etc in various collectors books) |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 31 Dec 03 - 09:28 AM I agree. A good rule of thumb is to do the ones particularly designated as work songs, in a capstan shanty or walking tempo. More later as I review them in conjunction with text notes. Mark, are you going to try a few? ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: GUEST Date: 31 Dec 03 - 09:56 AM Sorry Mary. I didn't understand you and didn't even on your second explaination. I have just tried entering the first one "Hear From Heaven To-day" and now I do understand and also have found some of what I said about res, was wrong (sorry faulty memory here). All goes ok until I reach the A under heaven. With "snap" on, Cakewalk will always want to put an 1/8 note in an 1/8 note slot and this 1/8 note falls on the smaller 1/16 note slot. I'd do exactly the same as you in these instances, ie. put a 1/16 note in it with snap on so the note comes in exactly the right spot and then change it's length. The alternative is to turn snap off and enter the 1/8 note but that can be tricky to get it to exactly the right spot - you need to watch the bar number/positions carefully - in that example it would need to land on "4:02:030". Jon |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: GUEST,MMario Date: 31 Dec 03 - 11:07 AM Here's a list - BOLD titles have been submitted -proofed and reported "okay" titles will be reported in a seperate list. PART I. 1 Roll, Jordan, roll 2 Jehovah, Hallelujah 3 I hear from Heaven to-day. 4 Blow your trumpet, Gabriel 4b Second version 5 Praise, member 6 Wrestle on, Jacob 7 The Lonesome Valley 8 I can't stay behind 9 Poor Rosy 10 The Trouble of the World 11 There's a meeting here to-night 11b Second version 12 Hold your light 13 Happy Morning 14 No man can hinder me 14b Second version 15 Lord, remember me 16 Not weary yet 17 Religion so sweet 18 Hunting for the Lord 19 Go in the wilderness 20 Tell my Jesus "Morning." 21 The Graveyard 21b Variation 22 John, John, of the Holy Order 23 I saw the beam in my sister's eye 24 Hunting for a city 25 Gwine follow 26 Lay this body down 27 Heaven bell a-ring 28 Jine 'em 29 Rain fall and wet Becca Lawton 30 Bound to go 30b Second version 31 Michael row the boat ashore 32 Sail, O believer 33 Rock o' Jubilee 34 Stars begin to fall 35 King Emanuel 36 Satan's Camp A-fire 37 Give up the world 38 Jesus on the Waterside 39 I wish I been dere 40 Build a house in Paradise 41 I know when I'm going home 42 I'm a trouble in de mind 43 Travel on 44 Archangel, open the door 45 My body rock 'long fever 45b Second Version 46 Bell da ring 47 Pray all de member 48 Turn sinner, turn O 49 My army cross over 49b Second Version 50 Join the angel band 50b Variation 51 I and Satan had a race 52 Shall I die? 53 When we do meet again 54 The White Marble Stone 54b Second Version 55 I can't stand the fire 55b Second Version 56 Meet, O Lord 57 Wai', Mr. Mackright 58 Early in the morning 58b Variation 59 Hail, Mary 59b Second Version 60 No more rain fall for wet you 61 I want to go home 62 Good-bye, brother 63 Fare ye well 64 Many thousand go 65 Brother Moses gone 66 The Sin-sick Soul 67 Some Valiant Soldier 68 Hallelu, Hallelu 69 Children do linger 70 Good-bye 71 Lord, make me more patient 72 The Day of Judgment 73 The Resurrection Morn 74 Nobody knows the trouble I've had 75 Who is on the Lord's side 76 Hold out to the end 77 Come go with me 78 Every hour in the day 79 In the mansions above 80 Shout on, children 81 Jesus, won't you come by-and-by? 82 Heave away PART II. 83 Wake up, Jacob 84 On to Glory 85 Just Now 86 Shock along, John 87 Round the corn, Sally 88 Jordan's Mills 89 Sabbath has no end 90 I don't feel weary 91 The Hypocrite and the Concubine 92 O shout away 93 O'er the Crossing 93b Variation 94 Rock o' my Soul 95 We will march thro' the valley 96 What a trying time 97 Almost Over 98 Don't be weary, traveller 99 Let God's saints come in 100 The Golden Altar 101 The Winter 102 The Heaven Bells PART III. 103 The Gold Band 104 The Good Old Way 105 I'm going home 106 Sinner won't die no more 107 Brother, guide me home 108 Little children, then won't you be glad? 109 Charleston Gals 110 Run, nigger run 111 I'm gwine to Alabamy PART IV. 112 My Father, how long? 113 I'm in trouble 114 O Daniel 115 O brother, don't get weary 116 I want to join the band 117 Jacob's Ladder 118 Pray on 119 Good news, Member 120 I want to die like-a Lazarus die 121 Away down in Sunbury 122 This is the trouble of the world 123 Lean on the Lord's side 124 These are all my Father's children 125 The Old Ship of Zion 125b Second version 126 Come along, Moses 127 The Social Band 128 God got plenty o' room 129 You must be pure and holy 130 Belle Layotte 131 Remon 132 Aurore Bradaire 133 Caroline 134 Calinda 135 Lolotte 136 Musieu Bainjo |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 31 Dec 03 - 11:21 AM Mary is doing a batch in the first group of songs (1-20), and has submitted 2-7 inclusive. If another volunteer wants in, just name a song-number range you will be tackling, other than what Mary and Mmario have listed that they are doing. I'm reviewing them as I get them, just to hear them, with MidiNotate. When I do, I find I'm slowing most of them down to about 70-85% of how you two have done them so far. Once I've "caught" several of the tunes and can estimate a singable pace, I'll let you know what tempo I think that might be as an average. It's not too hard to change tempo in the file, so you can go ahead and keep entering melodies while I futz around on my end. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mark Clark Date: 31 Dec 03 - 01:04 PM Another question. I know these songs were made to be sung a capella but would it useful to add chord notation? Neil Jennings’ program, HARMONY, does a dandy job of adding chord names to an ABC file and the abc2midi program can turn the chord names into a nice rhythmic accompaniment behind the melody. This treatment might be an aid to learning.- Mark |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 31 Dec 03 - 01:44 PM Not on this round.... although when I do these in church, sometimes I do use MidiNotate similarly to suggest chords. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 31 Dec 03 - 02:29 PM Have #1 from Mary also. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mark Clark Date: 31 Dec 03 - 03:30 PM Okay, check me out here and see if any of this is close to what is wanted. I've included the ABC and a MIDI for the tune I assume you'll call ss001, Roll, Jordan, Roll. Please select and copy the ABC code and paste it in at Tune-O-Tron: Converter, press Submit and click on the [PDF Sheet Music] link. You can listen to the MIDI there as well or listen to the MIDIs I've posted below. I've tried to keep the notes separate, as Allen did, rather than use ties and bars to improved readability. I assume Allen was working with a limited engraving capability rather than limited music knowledge. The MIDI text and ABC at the bottom doesn't contain the synchronized lyrics but should contain the correct MIDI events. I haven't listened to the MID2TXT output, only the original MIDI input. Looking at the output, it looks like MID2TXT also destroyed the original measure construction when it attempts to recreate ABC directly from MIDI input.
- Mark The MIDI file is here. MIDI file: ss001.mid Timebase: 480 Text: @KMIDI KARAOKE FILE This program is worth the effort of learning it. To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here ABC format: X:1
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 31 Dec 03 - 03:36 PM Mark, can you email me the .mid of that? If please PM for addy. Otherwise, can anyone else send it to me as .mid? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: pavane Date: 01 Jan 04 - 05:13 AM Thanks Mark. Note that as well as adding the chords, HARMONY can add an accompaniment in a selected style, including percussion, and write the whole as a MIDI. |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 01 Jan 04 - 05:03 PM Susan, I sent you Roll, Jordan, Roll before I started naming them with numbers. I called it rollj.mid Mine sounds like Mark's. (Except, in the 6th full measure that should be an F# instead of an E...an F natural in the variant.) Which reminds me of another idea: I like to have someone proofread my submissions since I can't seem to see my own typos, but I'm fairly decent at finding other folks' typos. Also, the notation from my midi appears a little different from Mark's. Mine has the groups of two eighth notes or four sixteenth notes connected with a bar. And I didn't put in slurs. Be sure to take a look at them and see which you like best. Mine might have to be doctored a little with another program. |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mark Clark Date: 01 Jan 04 - 05:42 PM Mary, Thanks for the proofreading. I touch-typed the ABC while looking only at Allen's score and clearly didn't profread it carefully enough. The ABC standard specifies that you can defeat automatic bars by separating the notes with one or more spaces. Normally, I'd type the ABC so that bars are used but I was trying to duplicate Allen's score for purely academic purposes. I also included the repeats that Allen specified although it makes my MIDI file longer than it needs to be. At first glance, I thought Allen didn't have bar lines available to him for publication but as I scan down the list, I see he does use bar lines in some cases. Perhaps the notation was hurriedly scribbled down during an actual performance and the engraver just duplicated Allen's notes without asking any questions. Susan sent me your MIDI file so I can compare them and try to have mine approximate yours. Mine really should have included a repeat-to line and dots at the beginning of measure one. I didn't put it in because I wanted to match Allen's printed score. Since we don't really care about the engraved score for this effort, I can encode the ABC especially to produce MIDI files and have a result similar or identical to yours. In song number 1, Roll, Jordan, Roll, Allen seems to indicate that each verse is sung twice followed by twice through the refrain. Is that the way you read it? One aspect of my MIDI file is that I think it can be used as a karaoke file without changes. Just change the .mid extension to .kar and I think it could be used in a karaoke machine or PC karaoke program. I don't know whether that's a useful feature but it should work.- Mark |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 01 Jan 04 - 06:43 PM (If we are boring folks, or if this really isn't appropriate for a general discussion...I'll take all my questions to PM!) Mark, I'm glad you brought up the repeats. I haven't been putting them in: 1) because if you look at the words written below the song...I'm really not sure how it's sung...unless you repeat the words also...which I doubt. I really don't understand that notation. 2) and also, my version of Cakewalk won't let me put in repeats (without just copying and pasting the entire section.) Another liberty I took...when it starts a new section with a pick-up note...I just put the pick up note in the previous measure...ie., the midi just keeps going. Take a look at #10 please. Even though the notes say it's almost impossible to notate that one..........there are triplets and rests within the triplet.......at one point I just had to change the length of a note, but the notation wouldn't print it! |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mark Clark Date: 02 Jan 04 - 12:44 AM I'll just post one more ABC tune here so you can check me out. I've sent the MIDI file to Susan.
- Mark |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: GUEST,Jon Date: 02 Jan 04 - 02:13 AM Mary, how did you compare your version with Mark's? I'm only asking as to the best of my knowledge, MIDI contains no information as to how to beam notes together. I thought things like beaming you may see with a MIDI is program dependant. |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 02 Jan 04 - 08:45 AM Mark, what song-number range do you want to work on, so we don't duplicate efforts? BTW I've found a contact at the Allen site; we've begun corresponding. News when I have it. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mark Clark Date: 02 Jan 04 - 01:16 PM I sent you nos. 21 and 22 late last night. If they see acceptable to you, I'll just continue down the page. I have Mary as working on 1-20 and Mmario as working on 74-82. I'm not aware, from reading this thread, that any other range is being worked. I'm perfectly happy to do any range that's useful, I don't have any prefered group. - Mark |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 02 Jan 04 - 02:17 PM OK, Mark go for it. Mmario seems to have started now in the 129+ range, and just sent me 129-136. We have over 30 of these done and ready for me to review/adjust/etc. What a quick start! What a team! Whoo-hoo! ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 02 Jan 04 - 04:21 PM I've finished through #11. As far as variants, I make another midi if it is several phrases, and I number it with a "B" added to the song number. I don't bother if it's just a few changed notes. Jon, I put Mark's ABC in the tune-o-tron. The appearance in the score was derived from his ABC. I visualized my midi in the Cakewalk program, staff view, which I use to make the midi. (I don't think Cakewalk will allow me to enter the notes without a beam.) I also solved the fermata problem. I just change the tempo drastically (very slow) for one beat. I'm anxious to hear all these. The ones I've worked on are really pretty. |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: GUEST,Jon Date: 02 Jan 04 - 05:05 PM Thanks Mary, that explains it. As I said above, I'm pretty sure that MIDI can not hold that sort of info. I obviously can't confirm but I suspect (apart from any transcription errors or conversion errors) that if you had viewed the MIDI from that abc in Cakewalk, you would have seen the same as yours. Jon |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 02 Jan 04 - 05:59 PM You're right. I snagged the midi from my temp files and looked at it in Cakewalk. But...something else...it did not show the first note as a pick up note as it was in the ABC. hmmmmmm... So what does that mean? Is the tune-o-tron generated midi not as precise as a Cakewalk generated midi? Susan, do my midis look OK in Noteworthy? Note to everyone else -- the midis all sound the same. We're just talking about what the scores look like when they are printed. |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 02 Jan 04 - 06:01 PM As I look at them in MidiNotate they look OK. The closer look in NWC will start Monday. They SOUND wonderful! ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mark Clark Date: 02 Jan 04 - 06:31 PM Mary, I see what you mean about no. 10. I tried to encode it just to see what I get. I found that ABC can't handle four symbols in a triplet so I coded the second triplet in measure 4 as three notes with the second one dotted. That worked out all right for the engraved score but the MIDI conversion gave me a warning that there were notes of different value in a triplet. You can play with mine if you like.
- Mark |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 02 Jan 04 - 10:26 PM I've finished through #18. Mark, if it's OK with you, I'll do 31 - 40 after I finish #20. |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 02 Jan 04 - 10:40 PM Are you people addicted???? Good! :~) ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mark Clark Date: 02 Jan 04 - 11:24 PM That's fine with me, Mary. It looks as though MMario is updating the list in his post of 31 Dec 03 - 11:07 AM. I'll keep checking back to see what hasn't been submitted. Question on #27 — Is this whole song really just four bars long? The second staff line seems, rhythmically, to be a variant of the first staff line. But what about the third staff line? It seems to contain two independent two-bar segments. are these two segments alternates for each other? And do they follow the main four bars of the song? - Mark |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 03 Jan 04 - 12:48 AM Re: 27-- some clues on Page xvi and Page xxii of the introductory notes in the site. I sort of understand what they are saying in these notes, but I'm too tired now to give you an example-- maybe Mmario can give a parallel structure for a shanty. I can try to be more helpful tomorrow; as to how to set it up as a MIDI I would say just input it as it appears in the page image. I can rework it once we have a better idea how it fits together, and that will come as I sing each of these through. Good question! Verrrry interesting! Gosh, what care you are all takig with these-- what faithful stewards of this amazing legacy. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 03 Jan 04 - 12:52 AM oops, more-- 27-- see also notes on Page xliv and Page 21, and compare #27 against 28 & 48. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mark Clark Date: 03 Jan 04 - 02:01 AM I sent off 21-30 with the exception of #27. I'll start working 51-73 if no one else wants those. - Mark |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: GUEST,Jon Date: 03 Jan 04 - 07:05 AM Mary: Is the tune-o-tron generated midi not as precise as a Cakewalk generated midi? Susan, do my midis look OK in Noteworthy? The tune-o-tron uses abc2midi to convert. I have found this program to be very reliable at producing midi to listen to but have never looked at the output in Cakewalk. Cakewalk does differ from abc followed by abc2midi and Noteworthy for that matter in that it is dedicated sequencing software. OK Cakewalk does have it's own format as well as MIDI but everything is event based. The other 2 systems mentioned are notation systems that can produce a MIDI. If I was to analyse a MIDI and found there were descrepancies, Cakewalk would be the 1 of the 3 I trust. Jon |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 03 Jan 04 - 09:16 AM Mmario-- list updates: 8-17 inclusive, incl listed variations 23-26 28-30 74b I don't have 83 Can we number the variations like the rest? It would make skimming the list a little easier on the eye. You guys are GREAT! Thanks also to our thread-clone! ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 03 Jan 04 - 09:17 AM I take it back-- I do have 83. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 03 Jan 04 - 10:35 AM May I suggest a bit of navel-gazing and experience-sharing among this happy anarchy, as I have come to think of our "team"? Question for you MIDI-makers. Have you spent any amount of time (how much) looking over the introductory material that precedes the table of contents? There's quite a bit of reference to individual songs in there. I'm not saying you SHOULD read all that before transcribing for MIDI-- just curious about your processes, and wanting to know if you have NOT looked in there much, on individual songs, because if not then I will as I review the MIDIs. I'm finding I have to read the intro over and over for it to sink in-- such a different world we live in now, it's hard to get it all to stick. Like building a new place in my head to set these characters and their songs and lives onto the stage, then I can watch them, listen to them, learn as I observe, and come back into NOW with a synthesis, an integration of understanding. It's a lot to wrap my arms around, if you know what I mean. So I am curious if you've gone there too, in the intro, or if you are standing more in NOW and just looking at the dots? Strange, this project, in a good way. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: GUEST,Jon Date: 03 Jan 04 - 12:52 PM I've just had a look at Mary's #10. I've never seen anything like that. Is it valid notation? I thought a triplet was 3 notes of the same type in the time of 2. I think if I was trying to handle it in abc, my own choice would be to just give a straight triplet and add a N: entry to explain what I'd done and why. If I was using MIDI as the main purpose (something to listen to), I would need to know how it sounded. I would then adjust lengths to suit that and forget any thoughts as to how it looked. Not saying any of this is right, just giving what I think I would do with 2 very different objectives in mind. Jon |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mark Clark Date: 03 Jan 04 - 02:35 PM Susan, I confess that I've spent almost no time with the verbiage. I started out playing with the dots to see if my MIDIs would be useful for your purpose. After that I just kept working on the MIDIs. I'll go back and see if I find help in Allen's descriptions. I find Allen hard to read because his view of the people who sang the songs is so stilted and condescending. He constantly refers to them as barbaric and, I'm sure, regarded them as sub-human. He seems awestruck that such people could make music that his highly developed European ear would find attractive. Given the time and circumstances, his attitude isn't surprising but that makes it no less offensive. As I work on the tunes I think of the people who made them, not Allen, et al. Jon, As you recognized, the second triplet in bar 4 of song #10 actually contains the correct total time value for three eighth notes in the space of two only the third eighth note (quaver?) is further broken down into a sixteenth rest and a sixteenth note (semiquaver?). I don't imagine Allen, et al. thought this was correct notation. I just think they were trying to use the notation they had available to represent rhythms they'd never heard before. African people have greatly enriched the rhythmic and melodic possibilities of the music we all love today. But in Allen's time, I suspect these rhythmic variations were completely unknown to white people. In the verbiage, Allen, et al. give the following: The best that we can do, however, with paper and types, or even with voices, will convey but a faint shadow of the original. The voices of the colored people have a peculiar quality that nothing can imitate; and the intonations and delicate variations of even one singer cannot be reproduced on paper. And I despair of conveying any notion of the effect of a number singing together, especially in a complicated shout, like "I can't stay behind, my Lord" (No. 8), or "Turn, sinner, turn O!" (No. 48). There is no singing in parts, as we understand it, and yet no two appear to be singing the same thing--the leading singer starts the words of each verse, often improvising, and the others, who "base" him, as it is called, strike in with the refrain, or even join in the solo, when the words are familiar. When the "base" begins, the leader often stops, leaving the rest of his words to be guessed at, or it may be they are taken up by one of the other singers. And the "basers" themselves seem to follow their own whims, beginning when they please and leaving off when they please, striking an octave above or below (in case they have pitched the tune too low or too high), or hitting some other note that chords, so as to produce the effect of a marvellous complication and variety, and yet with the most perfect time, and rarely with any discord. And what makes it all the harder to unravel a thread of melody out of this strange network is that, like birds, they seem not infrequently to strike sounds that cannot be precisely represented by the gamut, and abound in "slides from one note to another, and turns and cadences not in articulated notes." "It is difficult," writes Miss McKim, "to express the entire character of these negro ballads by mere musical notes and signs. The odd turns made in the throat, and the curious rhythmic effect produced by single voices chiming in at different irregular intervals, seem almost as impossible to place on the score as the singing of birds or the tones of an Æolian Harp." There are also apparent irregularities in the time, which it is no less difficult to express accurately, and of which Nos. 10, 130,131, and (eminently) 128, are examples.I'm guessing that scholars today would have a much easier time transcribing what Allen heard because we are accustomed to the rhythmic variation that so confounded Allen. Or else I'm full of crap and this post is just rubbish. <g> - Mark |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 03 Jan 04 - 02:44 PM I don't read him as condescending; rather, quite awestruck and aware of the humanity. I don't think "barbaric" had quite the pejorative edge we ascribe to it from today's perspective. YMMV. I don't mind if you don't read that stuff, you know; I'm just thrilled we are doing this, however we are doing it. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: wysiwyg Date: 03 Jan 04 - 02:50 PM Mark-- Tip for finding song details buried in the intro verbiage-- use FIND IN PAGE for the song number you're looking at, and you can easily find any comments on whatever pertains. That's what I did last night on your #27 question. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 03 Jan 04 - 04:49 PM Ha, I just looked at my midi for #10 again, and I think I'll change it a little. Somehow I managed to get close to the mathematical representation in the event list, but after "careful mathematical analysis" (she says while full o' crap) I'd like to make a minor change. Jon, a triplet is usually 3 notes to one beat. For instance, in Cakewalk you can use the little "3" in the upper left of the staff notation in conjunction with a note value (such as an eighth note) to insert 3 equally spaced notes to one beat. In 4/4 time, if you did this on the first beat they would each have a length of 40 (because a quarter note has 120 ticks) and they would occur at 1:1:000, 1:1:040, and 1:1:080...each having a length of 40. Playing 3 against 2 is similar, but much harder. The most famous example I know (Pip would know this one) is in Claire de Lune on the piano when the left hand plays 1 & 2 &......and the right hand has to fit 3 notes for every 2 in the left hand. You play the first two notes at the same time (hands together), then the next righthand note, then the next lefthand note, then the last righthand note. It's one of those things where you just have to go into right brain thinking and let it go on automatic! Back to the 4th measure in #10 of the Spirituals. The last triplet in that measure has, instead of 3 eighth notes (as a triplet)...eighth note, eighth note, sixteenth rest, sixteenth note...all under the "3" signifying a triplet. My best solution is to go into the event listing and put the notes at 4:2:000, 4:2:040, and 4:2:100. The first two notes have a length of 40, and the last note has a length of 20. This is mathematically correct, but the notation comes out, sixteenth, eighth, sixteenth. Another note to the Merry Midi Makers -- when there are two voices, I make a second track (channel 2) with a clarinet voice. The main track is channel 1 and has the grand acoustic piano voice. I like the clarinet voice because it sounds good on my inferior sound card. Susan, I'll have to look again and PM you which ones have that. |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: GUEST,Jon Date: 03 Jan 04 - 05:10 PM Mark, just responding to your question marks after the note lengths. Yes, you have that right; eigth note = quaver, sixteenth = semi-quaver from there we have a demisemi-quaver and hemisemidemi-quaver. I have read somewhere that a 1/128 note becomes a quasihemisemidemiquaver! For my part even though I'm a UKer, I do perfer what I tend to call the US system. |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mark Clark Date: 03 Jan 04 - 05:20 PM After reading more of the explanations, here is what I've concluded on No. 27. The second staff line is intended to be an alternate to the first. The third staff line contains two two-measure segments, each of which is intended as alternates to the last two measures of the first staff line (and perhaps to the second as well). When these measures are substituted, the lyrics change as indicated. The last measures of all these alternates are missing the final quaver. I assume the missing quaver is the pickup beat we see in the first staff line. So the song really is a four-bar line repeated over and over but with variations. Accurate representation of the documented alternates will require six separate MIDI files. Maybe I'll put them all into one file with several measures of rest in between. Mary, Did you convert my attempt at #10, above, into a MIDI using the Tune-O-Tron Converter? Does my solution work out when imported into Cakewalk? - Mark |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 03 Jan 04 - 05:52 PM Mark, it looks like mine in the notation...sixteenth, eighth, sixteenth. And in the event list, it's close...but that second note has a longer duration than the first note, and there is no rest. The tune-o-tron makes the length of an eighth note 59 (instead of 60...I guess so various instruments can catch their breath and sound repeated notes). My event list has a note of length 40, a note of length 40, then a "rest" of length 20, then a note of length 20. Yours has a note of length 39, a note of length 59, then a note of length 19. They both sound pretty much the same except for the rest in mine. (and you have to slow the midi down to even hear it) |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 03 Jan 04 - 05:59 PM Jon, I just noticed your comment about triplets: I thought a triplet was 3 notes of the same type in the time of 2. You are talking "notes" and I was talking "beats." |
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Subject: RE: MIDI Volunteer Sought From: GUEST,Jon Date: 03 Jan 04 - 07:20 PM Exactly Mary. I went through an exercise myself on that one having read your post. It does seem to me that both yours and my thoughts can equally hold true, eg. to use this #10, if we looked at the tune in 2/4 we can say there are 2 beats of 1/4 note and the triplet is made of made of 1/8 notes so if we said there was a 2nd triplet starting at the expected 2nd beat and made of 1/8 notes, the 3 would make up one of the beat in the bar. You are much better at maths that me but for what it's worth, I do agree with your Cakewalk "sums". Jon |
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