BS: NON-Partisan political comments

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 12:31 AM

Little Hawk:

Sorry, I was aiming that at weelittledrummer and especially pdq & his anti-Democrat story. I suppose I could have countered by telling how all the all the obscene sign defacing and vandalism that I've heard about here in Kootenai county has been done to Democrats, but that would make it maybe bipartisan instead of nonpartisan and I'd rather not pursue it; there's no profit in that kind of discussion. ("Oh yeah? How about what your guys did?" Repeat ad lib, ad infinitum.)

But an overly-ambitious independent would be likely to have a group of henchmen who would behave unsportingly. It's hard to avoid "parties" of some kind. Although I'm for it.

I'm not even real big on birthday parties.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 04:53 PM

sorry I wasn't being anti democrat, or anti anything - not intentionally. I was genuinely asking what the guest meant Sept 12th 10.51

no body disagreed with him(her)

I was puzzled by what he thought the democrats were doing wrong

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 06:37 PM

"sorry I wasn't being anti democrat, or anti anything - not intentionally. I was genuinely asking what the guest meant Sept 12th 10.51

no body disagreed with him(her)"

I beg your pardon, in that case.

I didn't disagree with him/her/it because I wanted to stay non-partisan. I thought it was a trollish, thread-busting post, and that was its meaning.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: GUEST,Martian Gibbon
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 06:41 PM

Good night pardon I saw that

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 07:18 PM

and from sledge...

if we all trawled the net looking for stuff to discredit/smear anyone we would surely find it sooner or later.

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 01:09 AM

and from Giok...

This is what I mean when I say that people vote according to their social status or family background, for a party and not for a candidate. No thought required!!

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Oct 04 - 11:41 PM

and from Bobert:

"Unless you are capable and willing to look beyond *your* side then you are allready in the loser category in my book. I mean no disrespect here but life isn't about winning law suits but being able to find common ground or selling visions."

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 06:57 AM

I don't know how many people outside the UK know who Robin Cook MP is, but he was a member of this government before resigning over Iraq and is now just an ordinary MP.

I heard a lecture from him in about 1996 on political structures and he was complaining about the UK system in which whoever wins Parliament has in effect absolute control (at least if the margin is significant). His basic point was that we think of strong government as one that can force through decisions simply because of the majority, even though come the next election if the other side wins they can force through completely opposing decisions. The result is that, taking a view over several changes of leadership there has been substantial occillation and very little of anything that you could call settled progress. "And I am sick of that kind of strong government" was one of the lines that stuck in my memory. Real strong government comes when, for whatever reason, all sides sign up, in the main, to a point of view; rather like LH's suggested 2/3 majority. Yes, it would be much more difficult to get anything done, but whatever was done would have a much better chance of surviving long term.

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 06:32 PM

glad to see this thread again.

I wanted to put in one of my favorite Wm. Blake quotes:
____

I am really sorry to see my Countrymen trouble themselves about Politics.  If Men were Wise, the Most arbitrary Princes could not hurt them.  If they are not wise, the Freest Government is compelled to be a Tyranny.  Princes appear to me to be Fools.  Houses of Commons & Houses of Lords appear to me to be fools; they seem to me to be something Else besides Human Life.
____

cliint

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 06:15 PM

and from Jeri-

"When what you believe is determined by which 'side' you're on, truth doesn't stand a chance. "

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 11:56 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Oct 04 - 12:21 AM

and from Jeri

Some people always go with authority figures, and some always go against. Both tendencies mean they don't care as much about facts as who's telling them, they're going to be wrong at least as often as right, and in the meantime, will do their level best to spread propaganda.

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Oct 04 - 12:18 PM

From Amos:

I don't know why you folks (some of you) seem to think it is accurate appropriate or acceptable to sling these damn labels around and pass judgments on huge lots of people in one swoop by classifying them as .... ( party deleted) or whatever. It is unconscionably poor thinking to make gross generalizations like that and pretend that some aspect of the label applies to all members of the class. It is not only bad thinking, it is also unjust to members of the set, and it is also -- because it distorts truth and promotes falsehood -- unethical.

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 04 - 02:09 PM

Jackc the Sailor: September 11: how do you know the Kerry administration would be better than a Bush administration? You'll probably cop out with "well anybody would be better than Bush," but I'd seriously like to know HOW you know Kerry would be better? Do YOU know who would fill key positions in a Kerry cabinet? If so, would you please share that information with us? Thanks.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: DougR
Date: 17 Oct 04 - 02:57 PM

David Brooks, columnist for the "New York Times" wrote a column about Kerry and Bush that appeared in our newspaper today that is, in my opinion, totally nonpartisan. He extrapolates to the readers his view of the kind of world Kerry envisions and the role the U. S. should play, and the kind of world Bush wants and how the U. S. should help achieve it. He does not urge support for either candidate.

This article describes the philosophies of both candidates better than anything I have read.

I favor the type world Bush wants.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Amos
Date: 17 Oct 04 - 03:32 PM

I think I know the article referred to, this one I think there is an important distinction to be made in his attributions of "vision". I do not for a moment believe that Kerry's vision -- on eof taking our neighbor relations seriously -- is one of preventing the sovereignty of any nation. How could it be? But consulting with the other people in the small crowded room called Earth is only basic decency, something much neglected of late in the halls of power.

A

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Oct 04 - 06:29 PM

I favor the type world Bush wants

Regardkless of how he intends to get there? As exemplified by past practise?

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Oct 04 - 06:35 PM

DougR, Amos, Greg F

Thread drift. There are more than enough threads to argue in- can't you just let this one be?

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Oct 04 - 10:42 PM

And from Am0s....

(Although not political, I think this deserves to be preserved)


"I think thereis a third class, too -- the ones whose destructiveness toward others is hidden in little needling remarks, the chronic correctors of others, the passive-aggressive under-miners and invalidators, who sweetly suggest you are worth very little, just for your own good, and end up stopping you from breathing, the secret saboteurs and artfully smiling destroyers of spirit. They don't look destructive until you trust or rely on them."

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Amos
Date: 19 Oct 04 - 10:49 PM

Thanks, BB! Sorry if I seemed argumentative, I thought I was just offering an important distinction.

A

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Oct 04 - 10:57 PM

Seriously, I did like the comment. As I stated ( somewhere above) I think there are some basic truths that can be gleaned from Mudcat, and I think we should try to collect them. It is a pity that so many people on both sides of every issue can be so blind to the wisdom often presented here.

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: DougR
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 01:29 AM

BB: sorry if I screwd up your thread. Didn't intend to. Sometimes it becomes very difficult not to write what you think at the moment though. On with the NON-Partisan comments!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 08:26 PM

From Rapaire


"If I've learned nothing else over the years, I've learned that nothing is as simple as you'd like it."


And


"Another thing I've learned is to stop trying to find someone to blame and instead find a solution -- and to learn from the mistake that was made."

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 11:26 AM

Someone asked me who I thought had the better character, Bush or Kerry. I replied that I thought that the character of the individual running for president is, or at least ought to be, irrelevent - when this nation was formed, a lot of safeguards were put into place to ensure that the president could not become like a king, dictator, emperor, or other single leader; therefore, the point is not who is the mouthpiece for the administration, the point is the administration that has the temporary upper hand.

I also agree that being doomed to failure is no excuse for not trying. Hey, I live in Virginia!

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 11:30 AM

Question raised in same discussion as above: Do you think that on Tuesday next, we will actually KNOW who is going to be president?

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 01:41 PM

Yeah.... And nobody mentions the great tread mill,that delivers all we desire......Except ,happiness, fulfillment, peace, love and care for our brothers and sisters, REAL freedom, care for the environment,
ect ect..
All this talk of political parties is irrelevant....Teribus once said "Capitalism is an econmic system, not an ideology"
But he was wrong!    The ideology of capitalism has seeped into the bones of most of us,and it will take many generations and im afraid much bloodshed to change it.
Unlike the Communist empire, the leaders of capitalism will fight to the last drop of our blood to retain their power.
We will never have a fair ,non partisan world till the disease is removed at the roots....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 02:38 PM

Video of Jon Stwart on CNN Crossfire.

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 07:39 PM

and Rapaire, again...



"Who gives a s**t who endorses whom?

Vote whoever you think would be best for the US.

Vote for Bush, vote for Kerry, vote for Badnarik, vote for Nader -- I don't care. But vote for your choice (hopefully, a well-considered one). "

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 09:14 PM

But I really like...

"A utah line-   A guy came up to me and put a gun to my head and said who are you going to vote for- Bush or Kerry?   I thought about it for a few seconds and said shoot me. "

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 02:28 PM

Yeah - and if you do care, vote for either Bush or Kerry... at least, if you want your vote, whether it's counted or not, to count, as the Boondocks guy put it so well.

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 10:16 PM

Touble is, politicians think the economy is their responsibility when, in fact, they should be concerned, foremost,with the education, health and welfare of the citizenry.

Just read a market analysis that says, regardless of who is the next president, we are headed for an economic downslide that make the depression of the 30's look like a hiccup.

d

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 03:03 PM

I know everybody here thinks I am a rabid right winger.

The fact is I am not a republican or a democrat. I am a conservative.

I think the two party system we have is reaching a critical mass.

It needs to be done away with. Political advertising should be done for free by the press, radio and TV networks as a required public service. Equal but limited time must be given to all candidates, even the weasels who have no chance of winning a position as a dog catcher.

All of these media are looking for something to present to the American public so let them present the candidate at their expense. Do not support it with public money because you will have endless Sharptons running.

There are probably flaws in this plan but they could be worked out.

Now how in holy hell is this going to come about when we have lawyers and politicians making the laws?

If it is not done we will have anarchy, riots, revolutions or coups like we see in 3rd world countrys.

Should we just turn it over to the UN? The UN is corrupt.

Something must be done. Possibly McCain and Lieberman in 08 could start us in the right direction. They are highly regarded by both parties (Rival Gangs).

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Chris Green
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 03:51 PM

Old Guy, for once I am able in part to agree with you! You're right, the political class worldwide is out of touch with the people it purports to represent and tends to represent itself and its own interests - however, this is unfortunately the nature of the political beast. I don't really know enough about the mechanics of the political process in your country to suggest how this could be changed, but something does need to be done.

You're right as well that probably are some bugs that need ironing out in the system that you've proposed, but it's nice to see that we do have some common ground after all!

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Old Guy
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 11:33 PM

Bazoukis:

Thank you.

Actually I like what I see of the British form of government. They stand up and argue over a set of books while supporters mutter here here. And their court system makes more sense. The lawyers are out of control here in the US.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 01:01 AM

Lifted from the latest DNRC newsletter:

Highly intelligent and well-informed people disagree on every political issue. Therefore, intelligence and knowledge are useless for making decisions, because if any of that stuff helped, then all the smart people would have the same opinions.

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 07:37 PM

Not political, but worthy of thought...



"My father's definition of religion is: "The Awe in which we hold our ignorance." "
                               Robomatic

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 07:50 PM

" It's the lawyers that are the problem. We'll try writing laws that don't need experts to interpret them."

How is that for a non-partisan, but unfortunatly incredibly unlikley political statement?

Bunnahabhain

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 08:03 PM

No arguement at all!

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 07:02 PM

"It is the mark of intellectual weakness to attack on a personal level that which you cannot refute."

Big Mick

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Feb 05 - 06:01 PM

Fundamentalists are aggessive, intolerant, and legalistic. They exist in almost every creed. Their aim is to destroy anyone who doesn't agree with them or doesn't exist their imposition of beliefs upon others. I think you could say there are fundamentalist liberals, too; and even fundamentalist atheists.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 01:14 AM

another one I swiped from Joe Offer...

...hysterical tabloid smear journalism is just not credible to reasonable people, and it detracts from the credibility of those who want to acknowledge the faults of the (insert whatever here) and to set up structures that will help prevent these things from happening.

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 08:17 AM

A two party, two corporation system (via mega mergers) will insure diversity, competition and freedom.

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 03:46 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 06:20 AM

I've been moaning about the iniquitous state of government (UK) for many years, and as far as I can see the one thing that never happens is a governmaent that reflects the will of the nation (any nation).

Some thoughts on a possible solution:-

1. Proportional representation, based on total number of votes gained, would go some way toward achieving the democracy we all talk about, but don't have.

2. Also, I feel that all candidates should renounce any, and all, political affiliations, except to their constituents, as a pre-condition to being selected.

3. It should be possible for a constituency to call their representative to account for actions taken in their name, and remove/replace him if the answers are not satisfactory.

I suggest the above as a general cocept which would, if properly controlled, answer the concerns of most of us. I freely admit I don't have a clue as to how it could be practically achieved, but then Verner von Brauntook a long time to move from the concept of rocketry, to a practical ICBM. But he got there!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 07:14 AM

Ahhh. one of the old problems....

If you have PR, then the constituency doesn't always get the person, or even the party they mainly voted for.

If you don't have PR, the the goverment doesn't reflect the way the country votes well

And hybred systems, like the one the Scottish Parliment are not much better. The constituancies the MSPs share are so large so as to be useless.

Removing someone if you don't like how they represented you in Parliment is called the next election. Much else is a bit fussy on a local scale.

2. Also, I feel that all candidates should renounce any, and all, political affiliations, except to their constituents, as a pre-condition to being selected.

Well, we did have a large number of legislators independent of the party system. The cross-benchers in the House of Lords, and the civil service.
So The goverment abolishes half the first, and does its best to corrupt the other

Sorry about the thread drift.

It may be worth repeating the old one though.

"Anybody who seeks a position of power should not be considered for it."

Or something like that. I never remember quotes right.

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 09:27 AM

The point of my idea my idea is that the constituency would not be voting for the party, because parties would be precluded by 2.

The parliament would consist of one individual MP for each constituency, each of whom would be required to reflect the views of that constituency, and no other.

I suddenly realised that, in such a system, proportional representation would be impossible, as it is a party concept, meaningless without parties.

I can see that the choice of a cabinet, and prime minister would be difficult, and time consuming, but surely the "Sir Humphreys" could maintain status quo for a week or two.

In this situation, a vote of no confidence in an under-performing MP would make it possible to enforce adherence to the "constituency loyalty" principle.

Non partisan, apolitical, government! The way forward?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 04:47 PM

However, prejudiced contributions without waiting for the result of inquiries are the backbone of all Mudcat political discussions.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 06:30 PM

Okay. I am not sure, like, what the flip you people are goin' on about here but...

Waht I want to say is that you can all flippin' vote fer me when I flippin' run fer office on the independent tikcet. And I will. I have decided to take the bull by the flippin' mungoberries and throw my hat in the ring, eh? In the next election. Whenever that is.

You will know my hat by the flippin' logo. It says, "I'm with the idiot -->". Either that or I will use the hat that says, "Go Leafs Go!". Whichever.

My plattform is simple. I will guarnatee that there will be enuff beer for everyone for the next 10 years even if there is a World shortage, meanin'...eveyone in my consistuency will have all the beer they can flippin' drink even if Quebec ain't got none at all! Let 'em drink water, eh? That'll teach them frogs to put up and shut up.

I will also make sure that there is lap dancing in every mucinipalaty totally legal, eh? NO more prudism!

That's my plan. I figger to get outta jail pretty soon. Maybe next month, eh? That's if Snake don't try to kill me. If he does, I will have to get tough with him and that could spoil my good behavier record, eh? I hope that does not happen.

- BDiBR

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 08:12 PM

Got my vote....

Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 09:26 PM

BDiBR,

"Okay. I am not sure, like, what the flip you people are goin' on about here but..."


Your statement is entirely correct- You don't.