BS: Forced helplessness

Subject: RE: BS: Forced helplessness
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 11:41 AM

The following is a conspiracy. The people who are alerting us to this conspiracy are not nuts. How many people were complicit in keeping the following conspiracy a secret?

We have every reason to expect that the grandson is carrying on the family tradition.


From John O'L's link...

"After the seizures in late 1942 of five U.S. enterprises he managed on behalf of Nazi industrialist Fritz Thyssen, Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush, failed to divest himself of more than a dozen "enemy national" relationships that continued until as late as 1951, newly-discovered U.S. government documents reveal.

Furthermore, the records show that Bush and his colleagues routinely attempted to conceal their activities from government investigators.

Bush's partners in the secret web of Thyssen-controlled ventures included former New York Governor W. Averell Harriman and his younger brother, E. Roland Harriman. Their quarter-century of Nazi financial transactions, from 1924-1951, were conducted by the New York private banking firm, Brown Brothers Harriman."

Subject: RE: BS: Forced helplessness
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 06:19 PM

I have read a lot of the "truth about 9/11" stuff and I have tried to keep an open mind tempered with a healthy dose of skepticism, but up to now I have kept quiet. However, the following horse manure demands a response: "Each firefighter had a 10 million dollar life insurance policy, for example, payable to their Union. So the commanders were told to keep cramming their grunts into the bldgs. The payoff saved the Union." That claim is laughably absurd.

Does anyone for a moment believe that every New York City firefighter had a 10 million dollar policy? Even if it were only term insurance the premium on each would be astronomical. Who paid that premium? The individual firefighters? Their union? The city government? And even if the firefighters each had such a policy, why would they make the union the beneficiary, rather than their families? It's insane.

When I used to live in Fort Lee, New Jersey, just across the George Washington Bridge from New York City, I knew many NYC firefighters who lived in that town and the surrounding communities. They were members of the Uniformed Firefighters Association of Greater New York, which is Local 82 of the International Association of Fire Fighters, AFL-CIO. As the certified bargaining agent, that union collected its dues through mandatory payroll deductions. It was not then and is not now in any financial difficulty, and it certainly wasn't about to go belly up. But even if it were in dire fiscal condition, the union leadership never put their brothers (and their tiny handful of sisters) in such jeopardy.

I should also point out that superior officers, from lieutenants all the way up to deputy chiefs, are members of a different union. They belong to the Uniformed Fire Officers Association, which is Local 854 of the IAFF, AFL-CIO. Although both are affiliates of the same parent union, the two locals are entirely separate from one another. In any case, the mysterious higher-ups who supposedly told the commanders to send the firefighters to their doom would have been chiefs or higher, and therefore not part of any union.

Subject: RE: BS: Forced helplessness
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 08:40 PM

Yep, the fun thing about the 'conspiracy theories' game is that the 'explanations' don't HAVE to make rational sense... there are far deeper psychological needs to be taken care of....

Subject: RE: BS: Forced helplessness
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 06:06 PM

I was just reading one of the last of the John D. MacDonald books and one of his characters was a conspiracy nut. One of the other characters observed that it came from a need to believe in organizing principles behind what would otherwise be random events, so that folks would rather believe in a conspiracy, evil or otherwise, than that, in the words of Homer Simpson, "it's just a bunch of stuff that happened".

There have been some excellent documentaries on what brought down the Twin Towers, and although I am honestly curious about what happened to WTC 07, I don't need to believe in evil fairies to inquire honestly wotthehell hoppened. Maybe the foundations were tied together, I dunno...

Subject: RE: BS: Forced helplessness
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 07:41 PM

Robomatic - Was the McDonald book "The Green Ripper"? I haven't read that one in a while and it's in storage to boot.

Subject: RE: BS: Forced helplessness
From: michaelr
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 12:53 AM

robomatic - WTC 7 fell down out of patriotic solidarity.

Keep asking!

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Forced helplessness
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 12:08 AM

It seems WTC 7 was brought down.

Ya might want to give this a read and a listen.

However, it's never been made clear exactly how the fire started. BTW, most pro explosives people would tell you that it takes days to place charges so that buildings come straight down. Lots of stuff needs to be answered it seems.

Subject: RE: BS: Forced helplessness
From: Wolfgang
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 01:13 PM

Am I the only one who sees the implicit racism in this particular set of conspiration theories? Them stone age Arabs are just not clever enough to inflict that amount of damage. They can't even fly planes.

Over here, the only people believing this BS are right wing nuts.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Forced helplessness
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 01:15 PM

You'd know.

Subject: RE: BS: Forced helplessness
From: LadyJean
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 01:01 AM

George W. Bush looked like a prize fool on 9/11. The speech he made was stiff, wooden, stupid and uninspiring. He stood staring at the camera as if he couldn't really believe it was happening.
When he got the news, he sat staring at "My Pet Goat" as though waiting for someone to tell him what to do.
Now, if the hijackings had been a government conspiracy, don't you think they'd have tried to make the president look a little more heroic. Imagine having him get the news on an airforce base, or while standing in Independence Hall, or at the Old North Church in Boston. Or they could have put him in the oval office, and told him to refuse to leave.
But the hero of the day was Rudi Giuliani, not Bush.
If you are going to crash a plane on purpose, you're best bet is to do it over the ocean or a river, like the Monongahela, which is large, deep, and muddy, so things disappear there all the time.
You would not crash it in a popular tourist area, like Somerset Pennsylvania, where people will be prowling the crash site with metal detectors for decades.

Subject: RE: BS: Forced helplessness
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 01:14 AM

People have been and they are finding nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Forced helplessness
From: GUEST,Elvis
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 03:48 PM

Most people think I am dead but it was just a Government cover up. Why doesn't anybody beleive me?

Subject: RE: BS: Forced helplessness
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 03:57 PM

Because you don't know how to spell 'believe'.

Subject: RE: BS: Forced helplessness
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 10:44 PM

This "Guest" is about two tacos shy of a Fiesta Platter.

Didya ever hear the saying "the wheel is spinning but the hamster's dead"?


CarolC, with your well stated arguments that you've thrown my way in the past, I'm really surprised to read that you're actually trying to justify some of what this "Guest" is saying.

Hey Guest,

Check with your Doctor. They have drugs that will help with your condition.

Just take your mommy with you when you go to the pharmacy.


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Forced helplessness
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 10:49 PM

Hey Hubby,

You are not a very good example of what it means to be a Christian. Do you teach your flock in this manner or simply fleece the?

Subject: RE: BS: Forced helplessness
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 10:54 PM

I'm not justifying any of his/her conclusions. Only the asking of questions, Hubster.

Just because we think the conclusions are off track doesn't mean we should be ignoring the questions. That doesn't seem the least bit intelligent to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Forced helplessness
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 10:52 AM

Wesley S. - The reference I was making re: John D. MacDonald's character's observations on conspiracy whackos was from the book: "Condominium". "The Green Ripper" is one of MacDonald's Travis McGee novels.

Interesting thing about Wolfgang's implicit racism observation. Shortly after 911 there was a rumor spread about that the Israelis did it, this rumor was supported by many Arabs and Arab supporters in the mideast going all the way to the poet laureate of New Jersey, and one of the supporting arguments was that the Arabs weren't up to that kind of organization. (But the spread of that lie, along with serialization for TV of an updated version of "Protocols of the Elders of Zion seems to be within their means).

Subject: RE: BS: Forced helplessness
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 11:25 AM

Condominium - That's right. I used to live pretty close to Sand Key in Florida - I'd always heard that McDonald wrote Condominium about that development. Thanks for the reminder. I've read most of his books but it's been a few years. I'll have to dig that one out again.

Subject: RE: BS: Forced helplessness
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 03:58 PM

Wesley S: Did anything as drastic happen in reality as MacDonald so lively envisaged in his (always readable) book?

Subject: RE: BS: Forced helplessness
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 04:21 PM

No - but Sand Key {just south of Clearwater beach} was built on a sandbar formed by a hurricane back around 1900 I think. US Steel built several multi-floor condos on that beach even tho they had been warned that there isn't any bedrock under it. The next hurricane could blow it all away - just like the book described. McDonald lived at various times in Clearwater and further south in Sarasota.