BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 10:42 PM

POWER: At half past nine this morning we were actually running an exercise for a company of over a thousand people in London based on simultaneous bombs going off precisely at the railway stations where it happened this morning, so I still have the hairs on the back of my neck standing up right now.

HOST: To get this quite straight, you were running an exercise to see how you would cope with this and it happened while you were running the exercise?

POWER: Precisely...

(Statement made on BBC Radio 5 by Peter Power, Managing Director of Visor Consultants. Statement made on the day of the July 7 bombings in London. Talk about getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar. And if the British government would do this to its own people, then...)

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 01:36 AM

Guest 10 42
Some people here get annoyed by people changing the subject.
We know who did the 7/7 bombings and it was not the government.
We even have their Al Q. suicide videos.
But thnk you for adding to the list of crackpot conspiracy theories I gave earlier.
Guest 10 24
He was not talking to himself but to specific, named contributors who appear not to be able to answer.
Some of them have told lies on this forum about a member of this forum. (Balham)
That is not acceptable here.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 04:09 AM

That clock is still runnin' GUEST - 19 Dec 06 - 02:19 PM

Cat got your tongue? Hands trapped in a drawer?

Come on!! Anything at all to support your statement???

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 04:41 AM

I head into the countryside of Spain for one day and return to see yet another thread destroyed by Well-orchestrated chaos.

If this is all you have to offer there is little point in trying to discuss or debate any matter with either of you.

Just for one short moment in time, consider how you both must appear to other members who visit threads like this.

If these rants and thread drifts are your answers to this very serious subject, I feel sorry for both of you.

Guest post all you like, it does not annoy me.

Divis

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 04:44 AM

Dave the gnome - 19 Dec 06 - 12:59 PM

Odd though it may seem, very few of the crimes committed involving loss of life during the period 1968 to 1989 were ever investigated.

Now on one hand you have the paramilitaries and their supporters baying for Enquiries into this incident or that incident, but when it comes to anybody wanting to look into what they did, it's hands off.

What was Den's dearest wish in that other thread:

"It is time for truth and reconciliation from all corners for without it there is no foundation from which to build the future."

But for the likes of Divis and Ard and their Irish-American followers "from all corners" does not include the "side" that they supported even although they were responsible for two-thirds of the deaths.

In the case of Jean McConville and the others who were "disappeared" on the orders/approval of the likes of Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness, the PIRA are guilty of war crimes. Now if Sinn Fein can stand on any political platform and demand that the likes of Pinochet be tried, they can hardly excuse themselves, but that is typical of their hipocrisy.

Here again are the figures:

British Security Forces - 362
Irish Security Forces - 5
Loyalist Paramilitaries - 1020
Republican Paramilitaries – 2056
Unknown/Unattributed – 80

Take a look at the lives lost to the paramilitary groups - all died needlessly. By the end of the eighties, certainly by 1994 the PIRA had "been fought to a standstill" - Note DtG that is not my appraisal - That was the exact expression used by Martin McGuinness to describe their status. When the Good Friday Agreement came about as a result of John Major taking up the IRA's offer (Remember the Downing Street Declaration was made in a response to an offer from the PIRA) McGuinness just could not for the life of him understand why the British Government would offer such terms.

I think that you are definitely barking up the wrong tree when you compare the likes of the paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland to the resistance movements that sprung up in Europe during the Second World War. Those resistance movements tended to restrict their attacks to their enemies, the PIRA launched their attacks indiscriminately on the population they claimed they were "protecting". Of course amongst themselves they could justify that because then, as now, if put to the vote the vast majority of the people of Northern Ireland would still vote to remain part of the United Kingdom. The PIRA never had any mandate whatsoever from the people of Ireland to wander around killing anybody, and guess what DtG they can NEVER offer any proof to the contrary.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 05:13 AM

Divis, does "you both" include me?
I did not contribute to this thread.
I admitted having no knowledge of this subject.

Now, consider how you appear, apparently unable to answer any of Teribus' points.
To dismiss his concise arguments as a rant is a cop out.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 05:18 AM

Has Teribus finally lost the plot & now suffering from delusional fantasies?

Why the hell is Teribus preaching to people about peace and democracy one moment and attacking them the next ?

Isn't Teribus preaching peace & democracy, like Jack the Ripper teaching me respect towards women, or like Stephen Hawkins teaching me to breakdance & gangster rap?

He ignores democratic opinion to wage a verbal war against the Irish along with his groupie. He deliberately manipulated intelligent debate to undermine other members by deception. Now I see he is attacking the people of South West London ?

Teribus clearly wants to end any hope of peace in Ireland by walking backways.

Get over it lad.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 05:26 AM

Still waiting GUEST

Still waiting for you to come up with anything, anything at all that supports you point of view, anything at all that refutes any of the points that either myself or others have made on this thread. That after all is what "debate" or "discussion" is about.

Still waiting GUEST - but believe me I am not holding my breath.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 05:47 AM

OK Teribus - Thanks for addressing my questions. I may not always agree but I will always welcome well presented and reasoned arguments.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 07:57 AM

For what reason would I wish to debate issues concerning Ireland currently on this site with either Teribus or yourself Keith ?

You constantly refer to me as a liar and once you get your audience you repeat like a parrot every silly point they bring to this site.

As for Teribus, Christ if I was still practising in a hospital I would have the Diagnosis done by now.

Then your little army of supporting "Guest posts" arrive, ah that's another matter.


Regarding the facts and figures you throw at me from time to time, these bores the ass of most members.

We fought a war here in Ireland, we fought for our right to unite Ireland. I do not accept the British presence in Ireland and never will. I am a republican, do you understand that ?

I am sick repeating myself to you, I said the movement offered sincere apologies and condolences to the families of victims (non-combatants). I also said we acknowledge the grief and pain of the families of the combatants -- police, soldiers and loyalist paramilitaries -- killed during the violence.


Has your British army/government ever made such a statement ? Answer NEVER.


You single out cases such as McConville. You ever acknowledge acts of murder by your British armed groups here in Ireland. And you wonder why I don't reply ?


You can talk, fire figures, call me names but you will NEVER EVER understand what it was like at ground level.


To put this in a nut shell, there are a few members here that hate the Provisional IRA.

There are a few member here that will never forgive the British Army for their actions whilst serving in Ireland (me included).

The two will never meet, so accept it.

I repeat my support and respect for all volunteers of the Provisional IRA.

Divis

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:19 AM

I announce my support and respect for all members of the British Army who had to serve on home ground - probably the worst scenario for any soldier.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:21 AM

As is your right to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:24 AM

If only people would, Divis, if only they would. Once everyone accepts that, then maybe these threads will never be started again? Perhaps rather than recriminations, accusations and counter claims, we would be happier if all mention of the past crimes, of both Britain and Ireland, were consigned to the past? I can well undertand your bitterness and the passion which drives you but someone needs to draw a line somewhere or it will go on forever. Both the British government and Sinn Fein / PIRA have made a lot of concessions. Whether one has made more than the other can be discussed until the cows come home but why not just move on from where we are. Everyone? Please?

I have had enough of the current fighting so, in the spirit of the season, I will add no more to the threads in question. If anyone wants to PM me please feel free and I will happily shake the virtual hand of anyone who I disagree with or who disagrees with me. In the interim may I wish you all a very peaceful and relaxing Christmas.

Cheers

DtG

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:38 AM

I too support our soldiers and despise the IRA.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:58 AM

Divis you start this thread and then say you will not debate.
What is the point?
Are you so unsure of yourself?
You just want to start a thread to make a point but can not defend it?
Pathetic!
Of course if you complain about the behaviour of the other side your own behavior will be thrown into the balance.

Remember I agree with all your aims, I just happen to think that the bloody murderous methods of the paramilitaries have delayed all your aspirations being met.

And if you tell lies to score debating points, expect to be exposed when you are caught out.

What gives you the right to special treatment?

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 09:55 AM

Nice self exposure of yourself yet again Keith.

If you had read the header of the thread you would see I called it " British Collusion. The North of Ireland". As on any thread concerning Irish affairs you and Teribus come in and create "Well-orchestrated chaos" to take peoples minds of the subject.

You have read my apologies above, any chance of reading yours ?
You wore the British army uniform, so that places you in a postion to voice it or from your friend in the green apron.

I do not require any "special treatment" Keith, but the big difference between us is you have to search the net for information concerning the campaign, I have only to use recall.

As many members on this site are aware, it's a subject you clearly know very little about, you were never a serving soldier in Ulster, your friend only really warmed up the ovens in a barracks kitchen.

I continue to receive many pm's from members asking me to ignore you and let you continue to dig a big hole for yourself. When it comes to any thread about the North of Ireland you know absolutely NOTHING!!!

Above you will read an excellent post from Dave. It amazes me how you can think this to be your specialised subject Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:25 AM

Divis, I thought there was some merit in your first post, but Teribus challenged it on several points and, as far as I can see, you haven't dealt with any of them. For instance, if Teribus is right (IS he?) you were flying a kite in the way you described the status of the hitorical inquiries team.

Teribus, in answering shaneo's claim that Ireland is the third richest country in the world per capita you said: "I actually happen to live in the third richest country in the world , and guess what it ain't fuckin' Ireland."

So what country would that be then, Teribus? Ieland's GDP outstripped Britain's several years ago. With his reference to "per capita" we may assume Shaneo had in mind GDP. But if you're measuring richness in more general terms, it's hard to ignore the Economist Intelligence Unit, which consistently puts Ireland among the top coutries in the world for "quality of life," and the UK many places lower down the list. (They use a formula which embraces factors such as incomes, health, unemployment, political stability and job security.)

EU subsidies obviously kickstarted the Celtic Tiger,but you are mistaken to think that those are what makes the difference now. Ireland has developed a hugely successful knowledge-based economy, and seen through a relatively painless switch in emphasis from agriculture to service industries. Ireland is also much more open to international trading than the UK. Factors such as these mean that Ireland is attracting colossal inward investment in its own right, and EU subsidies are a relatively small part of the whole mix. (Most EU countries, including the UK, benefit from subsidies of one sort or another.)

Just a detail, Teribus, but Stalker was a deputy chief constable, not a chief constable.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:30 AM

I have read several of your apologies.
You say that you are sorry for the suffering caused by PIRA, but then you say you are proud of them for causing it.
That is worthless.
If I am so ignorant of your campaign you should be able to overcome my arguments easily.
This is a global forum. You can not expect to retrict discussion to your own countrymen. You have frequently pontificated on English matters.
There are no members putting the Loyalist case. We are your only opposition but you would prefer none?

I am rather lowly to speak on behalf of the army, but I turn down no reasonable request.
I apologise for wrong doing by any soldier in Ireland
By wrong doing I include robbery and unlawful killing.
Any guilty soldier should be prosecuted and I would help in that if I could.

Now will you say the same about PIRA volunteers?

Now will you reply to Teribus' points?

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST,member
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 11:58 AM

f???? of Terribus

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Alison M
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 12:26 PM

Divis would not be proud of any suffering that has been caused in Ireland by the PIRA. He is proud of them for defending their communtity from the UDA, UFF, LVF, UVF, and any other loyalist/unionist paramilitaries that exists or existed including the British UDR. I feel that all of us have played a part in the troubles. We are all to blame for what has happened over those years, which includes all the IRAs, all the loyalists/unionists, and the British too. We should be trying to move forward towards peace in Ireland. Blaming each other all the time does not achieve that. No one can undo the past events except try to build new bridges of peace for the sake of the children's future who live in Ireland. I know it can be difficult for some people that have lost relatives to move forward.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 12:37 PM

Are you Orville to Divis's Keith?

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST,Keith A
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 12:38 PM

Yes we should be trying to move forward and no, blaming each other all the time does not achieve that Alison, but still your republicans keep starting these threads.
Defending their community?
LOOK at the numbers that they killed
Causing suffering IS what they did, with their car bombs in town centres etc., etc.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 01:13 PM

Keith well spoken, our army shoots 14 gunmen in Londonderry and we are accused of murder, the British Army`s behaviour has been exemplary where ever we we went.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 01:29 PM

Peter, I have seen two letters from the office of the Historical Inquiries Team. For obvious reasons I can't state publicly the names of those who signed them (not that the names would mean anything to you anyway). Both signatures made my blood boil. I know both of them (not personally ) and without sounding paranoid it was like a kick in the teeth to know these two individuals are to be part of this team. Both well known home grown ex RUC. I cannot or will not be pulled into saying anything more about either of them or the contents of the two letters.

Regarding actions referred to here carried out by members of the Provisional IRA prior to the Good Friday Agreement,the British government will not be pursing them through the courts seeking custodial sentences. Legislation to drop prosecutions for offences committed before the signing of the Good Friday Agreement was introduced by the British Government.


These were agreed by the two governments during Weston Park talks. They agreed not to pursue the prosecutions of those involved in so called crimes committed before April 1998 (take that one up with your government).

The PIRA were not appointed Guardians of law and order whereas the British army and police were. That is the big big difference.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 01:45 PM

Peter,
sorry if my post above sounded as if all of it was a reply to you alone.
Only the first part was as a reply to your question.

The rest if it was general.
Best wishes
Divis.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Alison M
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 03:13 PM

Keith A, it is not all the IRA's fault. Loyalists/Unionists have killed plenty of innocent people and the British played a part in this too. Loyalists have used no warning car bombs, for example in Dublin and they marched with the Orange Order Parade this year and held up posters of the dead loyalist convited murderer Robert Mc Connell, who kill many innocent Catholics with no warning car bombs and they said "the Catholics can clear up their own blood and that is the way it is going to be for now on in Ireland." If I could find this statement online I would have posted a link to it on here for everyone to read.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 03:22 PM

Alison you are right.
I have said here many times that I have nothing but contempt for ALL the paramilitaries.
There are just no Loyalist paramilitary supporters here for me to argue with.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Dec 06 - 03:07 AM

Sweeney, in the spirit of reconcilliation I gave you the apology that you asked me for, and asked you to match it.
You did not even bother to acknowledge it.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 22 Dec 06 - 04:44 AM

Sorry Keith, you are right. I really am sorry about that. Lot gonig on at moment and returning home today.
Hope you and family have a great Christmas.
Best Wishes
Divis.
I had already made my apology I thought.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Dec 06 - 05:33 AM

My problem with your apology is this.
Being sorry implies regret.
I do not understand how you can be both sorry for, and proud of, the same deeds.

I will leave you to think about that one.
Safe journey home, and best wishes to you and yours.
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Dec 06 - 06:48 AM

Merry Christmas to the families of the victims of the "Troubles"

This time of year must really bring it all home.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 22 Dec 06 - 12:12 PM

Right Keith let's get this question of your cleared up. Sorry for the delay. Lacking sleep,very tired at moment.

You said,
"My problem with your apology is this.
Being sorry implies regret.
I do not understand how you can be both sorry for, and proud of, the same deeds".

I am sorry that there was loss of life in the North of Ireland. The grief of the family of a British soldier is no different than that of a family of a PIRA volunteer. Yes it does imply regret. Regret that life was taken (on both side).

The question you posed "sorry for and proud of the same deeds".

Sorry for loss of life, yes. Proud of the men within the PIRA yes. Regarding the "same deeds" I don't understand this.

Are you saying how can I be sorry for what they did, if the same people I am proud of carried out these deeds ?

Keith I imagine you are proud of the British army and regret the lives they took. Was their deeds any different ?

You will no doubt say here you agree with a British soldier shooting an armed volunteer. I am not going to argue with you.

We both have used names of people on these threads killed by both the IRA and British army. (Mrs McConville and Majella O'Hare).

Both killings brought grief and suffering, there are many other people s names we could use to score points. I have regret for the loss of both lives.

I could have brought the names of two members of my own family here who were murdered but didn't, no doubt if I did I would get it in the neck "expecting special treatment" as you once put it.


The difference that lies between us is simple Keith. I considered we fought a war. You considered that your army fought a war. You say our war was wrong and I say your occupation of my country was wrong.

We will never agree, ever. You say we would have got a lot more if we hadn't employed the armed struggle, sorry let's agree to disagree on that one.

So let's agree, you support the role of the British army in Ireland, correct ?

I supported the Provisional IRA campaign for the removal of British rule in Ireland.

There I hope your answer lies and accept we will never agree. We are two very difference people who will never alter the others thinking.

Enjoy Christmas and let's both hope for peace in 2007.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Shaneo
Date: 22 Dec 06 - 12:18 PM

Are Sinn Fein the only policital party in the world that have representatives in two states [countries] they have four M.Ps in Westminster and five in Dail Éireann [Irish parliament]
Is this unique ?

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 22 Dec 06 - 12:26 PM

It is Shaneo. Don't get them started on the Shinners next , if you do your on your own !

Enjoy Christmas
Divis

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Dec 06 - 12:50 PM

Thanks Divis.
We see things very differently and yes we must agree to disagree.
I am just trying to get clear what you are apolologising for.
We are all sorry about the loss of life in last years tsunami, but that is not an apology.
You say you are sorry for the loss of life in the troubles.
Well everyone is.
That is not an apology either.
Get some rest and perhaps we can clear it up some time.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 22 Dec 06 - 02:37 PM

Divis, & Keith, for what my opinion worth, well said, both of you.

Divis, you put your case damn well there.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 22 Dec 06 - 02:46 PM

Keith, The Provisional IRA have apologised for the civilian deaths and injuries it caused during the campaign and offered its sincere apologies and condolences to the families.

The future will not be found in denying collective failures and mistakes or closing our minds and hearts to the plight of all of those who had been hurt. It will not be achieved by creating a hierarchy of victims in which some are deemed more or less worthy than others. That includes all of the victims of the conflict, combatants and non combatants.

I myself believe Sinn Fein is committed unequivocally to the search for freedom, justice and peace in Ireland.

I remain totally committed to the peace process and to dealing with the challenges and difficulties which this presents us with daily. This includes the acceptance of past mistakes by all sides and of the hurt and pain caused to others.

There is two sides to this Keith. As an example,on two occasions the British government were found guilty of cruel and inhuman treatment in European courts. the British government publicly admitted it and promised to refrain from all the violations the court found them guilty of. I can accept their willingness to correct this and sorry to use this as an example, not trying to stir the pot, just want you to see wrongs came in from all sides.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Dec 06 - 04:03 PM

I'm sure the "non combatants" families are comforted and reassured by all the fine words here. My thoughts are with them and all of the platitudes being thrown around here must be very hard for them to swallow. Let's have peace and whatever reconcilliation can be achieved but please no more glorification of the "combatants".

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Dec 06 - 07:44 PM

The cruel treatment Britain used was light and sound which was previously not regarded as torture.
As you say it was stopped.
Your side used horrific physical torture and routinely executed, so how can you express disapproval?
I respected PIRA for their apology.
I thought it a great step forward.
I find your comments inconsistent with the PIRA apology.
How can you be sorry for the deaths and proud of the killing?

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 22 Dec 06 - 08:36 PM

Are you proud of your soldiers and the job they were paid to do ?
Yes the "nutting squad" used means which were rough.
My own brother received 3,000 pounds which was a lot of money then for the torture used against him by the British army.It was not light or sound Keith, it was cigarette burns. It was a doctor who pushed his case, he was afraid to. It was the army did this, Do you not believe there was torture besides light and sound ? please let me know and I can and will supply you evidence Keith.
My comments are consistent with GAC command.
Can we get this thread cleared up before Christmas ?

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Dec 06 - 08:54 PM

But which Christmas?

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Epona
Date: 22 Dec 06 - 09:04 PM

Just in, wanted to say hello! Long time, no chat....I knew I would find a thread on here about Ireland. Now, as I interject here, I am conscious of stepping into another debate between several names I know rather well. But I feel I have to say this. I don't remember reading the part where Divis said he was "proud of the killing." I am a speed reader though and admit I may have missed that. That being said, I can completely understand feeling sorry for deaths, but proud of your soldiers. I don't understand how you cannot be proud of men and women who are willing to sacrifice themselves to promote and protect your freedom. And I'm not talking about glorifying torture or abuse. I am talking about proudly supporting people that, by the very essence of them volunteering for a soldier's position, is making the statement that he or she is willing to give their life for yours. That is the ultimate sacrifice, one that many play lipservice to, but never find the courage to embrace.

Just a side note: I got my copy of Lost Lives! What a reference this book is!

E

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 03:58 AM

Epona, PIRA killed thousands, mostly innocent by standers and mostly catholic.
Divis has never qualified his pride in all they did.
He has never criticised them for anything.
Even when it emerged they killed a child to blame the army, he just repeated the official apology.
Just now he described horrific physical torture and the routine execution of prisoners as " a bit rough". That is his strongest ever criticism.
He just tells us over and over how proud he is.

Divis, about your brother's burns.
(Last time you told this tale it was you that was burned)
Such action was never permitted.
That is why compensation would be paid.
The guilty would be charged.
I am not proud of such renegades, even if they were desperate to prevent another bomb on the streets their families walked.
I am ashamed of them and their behaviour.
Will you say the same about your "nutting squads"?

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 05:34 AM

Thread Name Subject Posted
[PM] Divis Sweeney BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq (164* d) RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq 14 Feb 06

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Keith please prove I tortured anyone. Please also provide evidence I have ever come onto this site using Guest aliases. Stop making silly remarks unless you can back them up. Only makes you look foolish.

Teribus, saw British troops gather children on many occasions as cover walking through certain areas of Belfast with the lure of sweets. You forgot to add that one.

As to your remark about torture using cigarettes, glad you brought that up.
In 1976 I won my case against the British government for ill treatment and wrongful arrest, and yes you guessed it, the scars from the cigarette burns inflicted by British soldiers on my right arm and the photographic evidence along with their admission won my case.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 05:38 AM

Christ, Harry Houdini didn't twist as much as you do Keith, sorry I don't tell tales. I state fact. Yes I have two small scars on my left arm caused by cigarette burns.My brothers case is recorded and occurred in 1972.

I have listened to your last remark about "telling tales" and "being a liar"

I really should have listened to so many other members who left this thread a long time ago and followed the example of others. This is due to your lack of logical debate and silly half assed remarks.

You seem incapable of moving on. What I would really like to see is you talking to someone from one of the dissident groups. There you won't find any words like sorry, let's move on, it's over or let's embrace peace. Your not following the route your government took with us.


I remain committed unequivocally to the search for freedom, justice and peace in Ireland ONLY through peaceful means.


Close the door after you Keith, I think you'll find the room is now empty.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 06:56 AM

I seem incapable of moving on?
Divis, YOU started this thread.
YOU raised the issue of apologies.
YOU raised the issue of prisoner treatment.
I merely responded.
Surely I helped your case by reminding everyone that it was not just your brother who was burned?

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 08:02 AM

Keith

The key to getting out of this vicious cycle you have created here is simple. STOP IT NOW. You have become the type of person no one likes to talk to any more. In fact you have become obnoxious I am sorry to have to say.


Your friends and acquaintances have began to distance themselves from you due to your lack of acceptance of other members posts.


You sound as if you have better things to do than listen to whoever is replying to you. You never seem to respond to scenarios people pose without some snide remark.
Frequently you dismiss stories and accounts of others. Stories that have a lot to do with the discussion at hand.
You ask people stupid questions like, "Why are you bringing this into it ?" It's like on a particularly serious topic, you may as well laugh hysterically at their point.
      
It's like a kid I knew at school who would Interrupt at random intervals with animal noises or vulgar sayings that are completely out of context and extremely inappropriate.
   
Why must you always be argumentative by disagreeing with anything anyone has to say ?


You have shown no consideration for others members views.
On a regular basis it's as if you wish to inform others of your superiority.

I once agreed with many points you made. Now you seem to have perfected your technique of getting for others to respond in an appropriate manner. You seem to have a new persona.

Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Epona
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 08:04 AM

You're perseverating...it's like I never left!

E

PS Happy Christmas and Happy Holidays!

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 08:06 AM

As I just said, I was only replying to issues raised by Divis.
You would prefer all his posts to go unchallenged?

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 08:07 AM

100 but no cheers from me