BS: Gno more Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 07:15 AM

Down the street the dogs are barking
      
And the day is getting dark.
      
As the night comes in a-fallin'
                        
The dogs, they'll lose their bark.

The silent night will shatter
      
From the sounds inside my mind
            
As I leave one too many mornings
   
And a thousand miles behind.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 07:18 AM

There is a lot of leaping at guests here but it would be interesting to know what finaly broke Dtg down.

My speculation is that the biggest straw for him would have been the almost Irish vs English threads (one of the last comment I read of his was "Did you not know that anyone English is always the aggressor?" which are threads largely played out by the same members.

I could be wrong, and there could also be several reasons but I do feel having the guest to blame does prevent looking at other possibilities.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 07:21 AM

Could the Guest/s be one of those who post on the threads you mention?
G

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 07:30 AM

From an anonymous Guest:

This is a sad week. I have received a pm from another member Dave who has just left this site due to the shite that is slung here.

Keith, it's you that is driving people away.

Can we not just ban Keith ?

To receive a pm, this nameless one must be a member hiding behind anonymity to attack someone else. I consider that to be far worse than a straightforward unidentified visitor.


DC

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 07:31 AM

I don't know what geusts might enter them, Giok. There is however a group of members who usualy find issues such as NI to fall out over. I'm sure we could all draw up very similar lists.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: kendall
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 08:02 AM

I have also met Dave, and he is welcome in my home, even if he doesn't bring any spiced rum.
Please reconsider, Mate.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: The Barden of England
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 08:04 AM

Well said Gervase - anybody posting as GUEST is doing so because they don't have the backbone to own up to who they are. Cowards the lot of them.
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: JennyO
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 08:22 AM

To receive a pm, this nameless one must be a member hiding behind anonymity to attack someone else. I consider that to be far worse than a straightforward unidentified visitor.

I agree with you, Doug Chadwick. And if this site was members only, a member would have to use his/her name to post, and they might think twice before taking a pot shot when they know they will be known and made accountable for what they say. Although this step wouldn't get rid of all the nastiness, I think it would certainly lessen it.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: Ron Davies
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 08:23 AM

Dave's posts were more balanced than many others. He will definitely be missed. Obviously he has many options.   He could lurk and return eventually, he could take a cyber-holiday, he could just post above the line. Political discussions can get rough, but he knows that--and it's not likely to change anytime soon.    Possible improvements might be to restrict all "Guest" postings to music only--if that were technologically feasible, to outright ban all postings by those who refuse to take either a name or a handle, or to stop anybody who just posts as a "Guest" from starting any thread. Those who post just as a "Guest" seem very frequently to only want to stir up trouble. People who don't want to cause trouble can easily take a name or a handle--then at least there is a semblance of accountability.   Refusal to do so on the basis of "security" is a red herring.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: jacqui.c
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 08:44 AM

I agree with the idea of members only posting in the BS section. At least then the identity of the trouble makers would be known. Posting as Guest to put across nastiness and vitriol pisses me off. These types are just cowards, afraid to say their piece out in the open for fear of what others may think of them. I hope that I never descend to such small minded behaviour.

I'm sorry to see you go Dave - one less sane voice in what can be a wilderness sometimes. Hopefully, one day, I'll get to meet you in real life when I'm travelling around the UK. As has been said - take a break and come back and see us again sometime.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: Bernard
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 09:15 AM

I've spoken to Dave on the telling-bone, and he's grateful for all your good wishes, which I have passed on to him.

He will be back occasionally sometime in the future, but this place just isn't what it used to be any more.

Although anonymous guests can be a problem, some members seem to have their own agendas, too...

It's worth remembering that resorting to petty name-calling and insults is a clear admission that you've already lost the argument...

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: number 6
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 09:37 AM

Allowing Guests not to post would resolve the issues somewhat ... but it appears the an equal amount of nasty posts have been delivered by 'members'.

I think we should disciplne ourselves to ignore such outright attacks, as it seems we (myselve included) do at times fall prey and just feed the frenzy.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 10:30 AM

dtg didnt leave because of guests, he left because of the spew from ard and co. All members.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: Bernard
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 11:25 AM

Yes. These days I often type a response to a post, then just 'walk away' without submitting it.

It makes me feel a lot better knowing I haven't been sucked in by the 'spew'.

Discipline isn't quite so easy, because human nature makes us feel that we want to win... but sometimes the only way we really win is by retreating!

Far from being cowardly, it is a brave act!

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: Mooh
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 11:39 AM

I am often reminded about catching a bass from off its nest. Before it's released another fish may well have raided the nest and eaten its full. Will it ever be thus with the Mudcat? There will always be someone to replace the absent?

I am sincerely sorry if I have contributed in any way to the departure of anyone here, but I too ignore most of the nasty stuff and continue on my way, or it seems like I'm an observer rather than a participant, just standing by, slack-jawed, hands in pockets, not getting involved.

Either way Dave, I hope you return to the commmunity sometime.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: GUEST,Cruz
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 11:50 AM

Bernard, I often do that with serious matters. I have had conflicts where I sit down and type a 2 page or more letter thrashing something on someone then do not even send it. I may have wasted a hour or two but I got it out, even if only to myself. That is why journals are important.

I have vacillated on the Guest posting issue. I have concluded that some intelligent, good folks need anonymity to post. Some of the posts are excellent, thought provoking, and raise the level of the discussion. Therefore, let people continue to be "ghost writers" as long as there are no salacious attacks as happen recently when the whole thread was deleted, then partially revived.

Let the mudcat elves remove the "mud" slinging posts even if continuity is somewhat broken.

Ol' Dave likely just needed a break from the vicissitudes of this section of the deep, sometimes murky, muddy section of Mudcatsville. Catfish are bottom feeders and some of the Cats here a bout's are as low you can go.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 11:54 AM

Bernard, all that is needed for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing .
Post and be damned.
I would prefer to lose an argument than win by lying.
Let them do it. It shows how weak their arguments are.
But watch for them to give themselves away, and then expose their deceit.
Also personal abuse. It is resorted to when argument can not prevail.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: number 6
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 11:57 AM

Time to hit the 'ignore'button.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 12:09 PM

On the internet, all that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men respond to it. Especially when the 'evil' is designed solely to piss you off so you reply.

A smart person knows when walking away is the best option. You can't change the world, or even the desired mind when you flounder about with a troll. You may, however, change the minds of others who watch you feed the beast and see how it makes him come back for more, and know they can thank you for that.

I'm sorry DtG is gone and hope he comes back at some point, perhaps when the usual suspects decide to shut up and give it a rest, or more likely when he decides he can still talk with those who don't want to play the hate game or engage in trollery. I also find there isn't much intelligent discussion possible here currently, but things change.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: kendall
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 01:11 PM

I think the clones do a pretty good job of deleting the personal attacks and name calling, but they can't be everywhere.
One of the worst offenders has finally been banned and I don't miss him a bit.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: ard mhacha
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 04:03 PM

Well darn my hide, I spend the day at my favourite pursuit, watching sport and I come back to see Guests and co lambasting me for seeing off the Gnome.
Quite simply, go to the Thread in question, The curse of Cromwell, an see how often DTG kept misquoting me, as for worrying about his departure, I couldn`t care less, if he cant take it on an internet site, then he shouldn`t be here.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: John J
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 04:15 PM

DtG is a seriously decent bloke, and I for one will miss his informed and intelligent postings. I hope he re-considers and returns to the Mudcat, it's a poorer place without him.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 04:34 PM

I'm with ard mhacha. If he can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: Cluin
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 04:48 PM

Who's been banned?

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 04:52 PM

I haven't a Clu..in.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 05:24 PM

martin gibson - there said it. Now the roof will cave in.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: number 6
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 05:26 PM

Time to hit the 'ignore'button.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 05:37 PM

I'm going to ignore that last comment!

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: skarpi
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 05:56 PM

I wonder who is this " Guest " who is afraid to show his/her name ??

but on the other hand he or she dont have to .... but still .....

I dont know what all this is about , but I would like to know who this guest is .

Who is the guest talking to the guest ...............

just wandering.............


have a good new year , and love and happiness to you all

from all guests

all the best Skarpi Iceland. :>))

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: Bernard
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 06:02 PM

The general 'atmosphere', not any one person, has caused Dave to re-think his reasons for visiting Mudcat, as have many of us previously.

To paraphrase our 'GUEST 04:34PM' - if you can't stand the crap, get out of the toilet!

Now, where's that 'ignore' button?!

;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 06:52 PM

I would just like to clarify what seems to be a belief of some members posting to this thread.

If you believe making Mudcat member only will mean that people will have to use their "real" names to post here, you are wrong.

And maybe you should make a Mudcat New Year's resolution to take a course on how the internet world actually works.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: skarpi
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 08:57 PM

or stop use it, ? well you never know ..........

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: JennyO
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 09:05 PM

I, for one, was not talking about members using their REAL names, just a consistent handle. I still think it would slow down the nastiness somewhat. A lot of us know some other Mudcatters in Real Life too.

Of course I realise that you can be a member with a handle that doesn't give away your real identity, and those like Martin Gibson MAKE SURE that nobody ever knows who they really are. Bue he/she/it was finally banned. I also realise that those who really want to deceive could have multiple memberships, and that is probably hard to police.

I STILL think that having Members Only would be an improvement.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: Sorcha
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 09:06 PM

How the internet actually works.....Do YOU know, Oh Almighty Guest????
Please tell us. Inquiring minds want to know. And, Skarpi may wander where he pleases.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 09:47 PM

"I still think it would slow down the nastiness somewhat."

Good for you. Honestly and sincerely, I mean it.

I'm more cynical than you about Mudcat flaming and trolling, obviously. I look at the nastiness of so many members here (and not just towards us perpetual guests), and wonder how anyone can think that going member only will cure that.

To the surprise of many, I have been advocating that Mudcat go member only for years, just because the "blame the guest" syndrome here is so out of whack.

But despite the clones' cryptic warnings that going member-only is imminent, I've taken a "believe it when I see it" attitude towards it all.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 09:59 PM

And, we'll believe you when we see you, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: bobad
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 10:24 PM

Dave, you're a good man, I'll miss you.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: skarpi
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 05:36 AM

I dont have any attitude to you my dear guest , like I said I was just wandering ............

All the best to you Skarpi Iceland .

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: Myrtle
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 07:01 AM

Sorry to hear the news Dave, I enjoy your balanced posts.
Hope to see you soon at Swinters.
Regards, Myrtle.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 07:14 AM

Skarpi, Guest was just pointlessly 'nit-picking' at an understandable tiny spelling mistake.

What you meant, I think, was that you were wondering.

Wandering is to walk along, casually, not feeling the need to particularly go anywhere with any urgency.

A very easy mistake to make!

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: Sorcha
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 08:57 AM

Yes, Paul, but Guest, you know what? Skarpi's English is a DAMN sight better than MY (and I suspect, YOUR) Icelandic!

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 09:02 AM

Abso-bloody-lutely!

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: Bernard
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 09:40 AM

;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 08:43 PM

Well i'd like to add my name to the chorus of goodbyes. I am sorry that D the G is off. Its a sad way to start the new year.

If it is ard's line in malarkey that has upset him, I do feel sorry. Its quite stinging at times, and one gets the impression that all the abrasiveness doesn't really make ard himself a happy bunny.

i hope the D the G will reconsider. Friendship and cyber friendship has its limitations. but life is a bit miserable without it.

all the best to all parties and happy new year

al

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: skarpi
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 09:13 PM

Hallo all , Sorcha thanks but its not worth it , ignore it
as I will from now on .There are so many who have left the Mudcat
through the years and others that we see less and less :<( and some of them just becouse of " Words " has been spoken, some of us can handle it but some others dont and they have left the building .


The ........ will left alone here in the End .

Happy new year and may it bring love and happiness to you all
even to the ......... , and thank you all for those years
witch are gone , but gave me alot, Max , Mick , Joe if you good men
dont do anything soon about all this , all this will go bad.


All the best Skarpi Iceland.

P.s Dave sorry you left.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: Gervase
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 05:14 AM

It does seem that there's bugger-all worth reading on here these days - just left-v-right bickering, The Shambles' obsession with censorship (would that it were true!) and the increasingly squalid abuse by by members and guests. Another bookmark to remove, another cookie to delete...
Enjoy yourselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: Rman
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 08:14 AM

So who will inform us of forthcoming events at Swinton FC now?

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: Bernard
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 10:21 AM

Tantaraaah!

I will do it, my captain!

(Sinks slowly into underpants)

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 11:03 AM

Mudcat is a better place with the Gnome. Sorry to see you go.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Gno more Gnome
From: Bernard
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 11:20 AM

He'll be back...