Why is Kumbaya a dirty word?

Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word?
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 09:47 PM

Various Matters:

My thanks to those who have complimented me in this thread.
Your compilements were not only unexpected, they were also unsought. Yet, given the topic of this discussion, I feel the need to say that although I am very modest, my modesty still permits me to believe that your kind words are not examples of any Kumbaya moments.

:o)

**

The subject of Kumbaya is meaningful to me, partly because og my interest in African American cultures.

This subject is also meaningful to me since my first post on Mudcat was in reference to this song. That post was rather bitting-for me. But it was heartfelt. And I still stand by those words today.

thread.cfm?threadid=65010#1264364

Subject: RE: Kumbaya
From: GUEST,Azizi - PM
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 05:17 PM

I am a guest of your site and polite guests are supposed to ignore any crap they see or smell, but it makes me puke to read the comments that the song Kumbaya comes from Africaaners,the same people that brought us apartheid.

As a non-Gullah African American, I stand by the position that this spiritual is from the Gullah traditions and means "Come by here".

We {African Americans} need to be better at protecting our heritage from well meaning misstatements and conscious theft.

That being said, I do like reading posts here and am learning more about folk music in the United States and across the Atlantic.

However, it doesn't appear to be very many African Americans or other people of color posting here.

Sometimes race and ethnicity does matter".

**

Here is another post that I wrote on that same Origins-Kumbaya thread which speaks to a sub-topic of this thread- how some folks disparage this song:

Subject: RE: Origins: Kumbaya
From: Azizi - PM
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 08:57 AM

In true full circle effect, I found this online column http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2006/08/someones_dissin.html
[Eric Zorn; Change of Subject
A Chicago Tribune Web log; Originally posted: August 31, 2006]
that references this Mudcat thread as having the best online discussion of the origins of Kumbayah.

{On behalf of the other posters to this thread, "Thanks for the shout out, Eric!]

Here's an excerpt from that article:

"Someone's dissin', Lord, kumbaya

Poor "Kumbaya."

Its title has become synonymous with sappy, saccharine naiveté and peace-`n'-love, all-join-hands Pollyannaism that afflicts the starry-eyed. I've used the metaphor myself, even though I know it's a cliché that unfairly maligns a stirring and storied piece of music.

"Kumbaya" - also commonly spelled "Kumbayah" and "Kum-Ba-Yah"- is a glorious song, really. That's how it got popular enough to become a cliché in the first place.

The stately melody invites harmonies and is as simple as the words to the refrain: "Kumbaya, my Lord, Kumbaya" repeated three times. Then "Oh, Lord, Kumbaya."

Its origins are in dispute. Some folk historians say it started as "Come By Here," a 1930s-era composition by New York City clergyman Martin Frey. Missionaries took it to Africa, where natives pronounced the title, "Kum Ba Yah."

Others say the song originated far earlier among the Gullah people-- African-Americans living in the coastal areas of South Carolina and Georgia-and that "Kum Ba Yah" is "Come By Here" in their dialect.

Either way, the song had cross-cultural bonafides that lifted it out of the ordinary when it appeared on the scene during the folk boom of the 1950s and 1960s.   It's gentle call for divine presence struck a spiritual but non-sectarian tone.

The Weavers, Joan Baez, Pete Seeger and many others covered "Kumbaya," and it turned out to be perfect for campfires, hootenannies and guitar masses (giving rise to the expression, "Kumbaya Catholics"). Perhaps too perfect.

Chicago folklorist Paul Tyler says that the song "became banal at the hands of non-African-American camp counselors and church youth workers--include me in that number--who stripped it of any rhythmic integrity." (more from Tyler below)

The stately melody turned into vanilla dirge. And, in the backlash, "Kumbaya" came to represent shallow goodwill based on nothing more profound than the humdrum participles that differentiate the verses ("someone's sleeping, Lord..." "someone's praying, Lord..." and so on)...

[Pete Seeager interview cited]:

The man who wrote "Kumbaya my lord, Kumbaya," thought he wrote that until the day he died, he was sure he wrote it. He was very proud that African-Americans had speeded up his song and they liked to sing

"Come by here my lord
Come by here
Oh Lord, Come by here."

However, in the Library of Congress they played a recording for me of that song sung in 1920. Marvin Frey made up the slow version about 1936 or 37. He taught it to a family of missionaries that was going to Angola, and there they changed 'come by here' to Kumbaya,' the African pronunciation. Then it was brought back here." ...
-snip-

That online Chicago Tribune column starts with a link to this Youtube clip of a TV commercial for Bazooka bubble gum which began airing in August 2006:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XId0KW9Uy0U&eurl=

Here is Eric Zorn's description of that tv commercial/YouTube:

Smarmy, 20-ish bearded dude with hair down to his shoulders, wearing a tie-dye T-shirt and head scarf and sitting at a campfire with a guitar on his knee: Hi kids, welcome to Camp Chippewa. And let's all sing "Kumbaya."

Contemptuous campers, rhythmically: We don't want no "Kumbaya," All we want is bubble-gum! Bazooka-zooka bubble gum.

The Heights, a rap group, suddenly appearing: Bubble-gum! Bazooka-zooka bubble gum! Some gum!"

-snip-

The hyperlink to the Origins-Kumbaya thread is found at the top of this thread.

Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word?
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 09:49 PM

Wow, McGrath of Harlow!

I posted my comment before reading your post about that same "Someone's dissin', Lord, Kumbaya" article...

Great minds and all that!

:o))

Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word?
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 10:34 PM

It's interesting that some people equate the song Kumbaya-or at least the phrase Kumbaya moments-with fake comraderie for that African American spiritual was originally a heartfelt plea by enslaved peope for divine intervention.

There actually is at least one African American spiritual that talks about fake comraderie. That song is "Scandalize My Name".

Scandalize My Name

I met my brother the other day
And gave him my right hand
As soon as ever my back was turned
He scandalized my name

Now do you call that a brother?
No, no
You call that a brother?
No, no
You call that a brother
No, no
Scandalize my name

I met my sister the other day
And gave her my right hand
As soon as ever my back was turned
She too scandalized my name

Now do you call that a sister?
No, no
You call that a sister?
No, no
You call that a sister?
No, no
Scandalize my name

I met my preacher the other day
And gave him my right hand
As soon as ever my back was turned
He too scandalized my name

Now do you call that religion?
No, no
You call that religion?
No, no
You call that religion?
No, no
Scandalize my name.

http://www.lyricsdownload.com/paul-robeson-scandalize-my-name-lyrics.html

**

This past summer, I had the pleasure of hearing and singing the song "Scandalize Your Name" at my home church in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Reverend Bey, the lead minister of Union Baptist Temple started singing that song in response to another song that the choir had just sung. That song {whose title and words I can't remember} had a line in it about ministers doing wrong. I think that I remember the song "Scandalize My Name" so well partly because I had never heard it before, and partly because I admired the improvisational way the minister riffed on the choir's song.

The choir's song occurred right before Rev. Bey was to give his sermon. However, after the choir ended their song, instead of reading the scripture that his sermon was based on and then going into his prepared sermon, Rev. Bey made a jocular comment something like "Oh no, you had to go and talk about the pastor, didn't you? Well, that puts me to mind of this song". And then he started singing the song, and after the first line the pianist played accompaniment and the choir and the congregation started singing the song.

This experience was memorable for me because it "put me to mind" of olden day, downhome {Southern} Black social, good natured give and take experiences that I've read about but rarely if ever before this had experienced. The fact that the sung was unplanned and was in response to another song added to the experience for me.

**

Here's a link to a YouTube video of "Scandalize My Name" sung by two great vocalists-Jessye Norman And Kathleen Battle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4ZktluC0Mg

Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 01:00 PM

I got curious about the Gullah language, and which part of Africa it linked with - some say Angola, other from the Gola people in Sierra Leone/Liberia.

So I started googling around and I found this Library of Congress site with a bunch of interviews with former slaves (not Gullah speaking), both audio and written - Voices from the Days of Slavery Fascinating, and moving.

I'm rather glad this "Kumbaya moment" nonsense doesn't seem to have made it across the Atlantic. Or the Pacific either, it appears from some of the posts on this thread.

Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word?
From: Rowan
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 04:55 PM

I'm rather glad this "Kumbaya moment" nonsense doesn't seem to have made it across the Atlantic. Or the Pacific either, it appears from some of the posts on this thread.

Ditto, McGrath!

Although I was ignorant of the Gullah in the 60s-80s I did learn about them when I lived in South Carolina for a while in 1991-2. Even then I didn't learn of their connection to the song until I read this thread.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 06:02 PM

I have to say, Azizi, I LIKE that scandalise song. Not my tradition, but merited fire in the belly.

Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word?
From: Azizi
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 06:42 PM

Yes, Richard, I love the spirit behind "Scandalize My Name".

I should mention that in the rendition of that song that I heard, the last line of the verse was "Scandalize my name". There was no "too" in that last line. So, instead of the way the song is written on that website I quoted from {as sung by the great Paul Robeson}, the song went like this:

I met my preacher the other day
And gave him my right hand
As soon as ever my back was turned
He scandalized my name

-snip-

I recall that there was a Mudcat thread in the past year in which folks discussed church practices such as "extending the right hand of fellowship". However, I can't remember the name of that thread.

Here's an excerpt from an article that refers to "extending the right hand of fellowship":

"...the Baptist tradition of extending the right hand of fellowship to new members finds its scriptural basis in Galatians 2:9: "and when James and Cephas and John, who were acknowledged pillars, recognized the grace that had been given to me, they gave to Barnabas and me the right hand of fellowship, agreeing that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised" (NRSV). Furthermore, to this day, extending the right hand of fellowship to new members continues to be the norm among American, Southern, British, and Canadian Baptists".

http://www.mcmaster.ca/mjtm/2-r3.htm


-snip-

Unless I'm remembering it incorrectly, in my Black Babtist church, and other Black Baptist churches, "extending the right hand of fellowship" meant shaking hands and also exchanging hugs at the end of the formal Sunday church service. This was a way of demonstrating and reaffirming the connectedness {one family under God} of all persons who had attended that church service-whether they were actual members of that particular church, or whether or not they were "born again" members of any church.

In the context of this thread, the point I want to make was that this custom didn't seem fake to me, but certainly within churches, as within all other communities there are people who smile in your face, and will talk about you "soon as your back is turned".

Which reminds me of another great song from the great Son House:

Grinnin' in Your Face by Son House (transcribed from a record)
Don't you mind people grinnin' in your face,
Don't mind people grinnin' in your face,
Just bear this in mind-
A true friend is hard to find;
Don't you mind people grinnin' in your face.

You know your mother will talk about you,
Your sisters and brothers, too;
Yes, don't care how you're trying to live,
They'll talk about you still...
Yes, but bear this in mind,
A true friend is hard to find;
Don't you mind people grinnin' in your face.

Repeat first verse

You know they'll jump you up and down

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Here's a link to a funky* YouTube video of this song by an group called BluesCulture:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqFsilhXnZU&feature=related


* In this context, "funky" is a compliment.

Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word?
From: GUEST,Cornishmessenger
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 06:23 PM

Check this link it explains what the word means for those who are ignorant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumbaya

Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 06:40 PM

There were parodies on American Peace Corps Volunteers who were for the most part of a liberal persuasion who would sing "Kumbayah" and "Puff, The Magic Dragon" as a kind of uniting anthem.

The idea that people would come together to sing for inspiration was a source for many
newscasters and Right-Wing Pundits to use this as an analogy for people "to make nice" with one other.

When candidates agree, for example in an election, the newscasters say this is "Kumbaya".

We all know that newscasters in general do not want candidates to get along with each other. If they fight, that makes news. More credit to Obama and Hillary for being civil and substantive in their debates. Newscasters can call this "Kumbayah" if they want to but it really is a compliment though the newswhores don't mean it that way.

Frank

Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word?
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 06:49 PM

Here's that hyperlink, GUEST,Cornishmessenger:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumbaya

And btw, when you call people ignorant, smile!*

*Hat tip for that saying to Owen Wister's 1902 classic novel The Virginian

Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word?
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 06:57 PM

Cornishmessenger,

let me hasten to say that I think you weren't really calling people ignorant. I think you were sharing a link to an information resource that some folks might not have known about.

However, I couldn't resist an opportunity to show off my knowledge about that saying from the The Virginian novel.

No harm meant, okay?

Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word?
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 06:58 PM

Ugh, double "the"s...

Oh well. Maybe I am ignorant.

:o)

Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word?
From: GUEST,Chicken Charlie
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 07:14 PM

In case you missed it, CornishMessenger, this thread is not about the literal meaning of the title of the song in question, but rather about the connotation. Implying that the several dozen people who have contributed to this thread are ignorant was unjustified, not to mention rude. Have a nice day, but please have the rest of it quietly.

Chicken Charlie

Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word?
From: Janie
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 07:57 PM

Thanks for the Blues culture link, Azizi. I really enjoyed that....and where it led me as I followed the cajon videos.

Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word?
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 08:29 PM

Yes, Janie, those musicians and that singer were really kickin' it.
That square drum that was played by one of the musicians is straight out of Africa, and is also found in the Caribbean. The second musician played a harmonica and the third musician/vocalist played an electric guitar.

Here's the myspace for that group:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=145162891

Would you believe that they're a Blues, Acoustic, Jam Band from Hamburg, Germany! Alright, Germany!

**

Btw, Janie, this is somewhat off-topic, but did you notice that familiar riff [is that what you call it?} that the guitarist played towards the end of that song? Was that from "Hush Little Baby, Don't You Cry?" or is it "Hambone"? Or are they the same tune?