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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: Richard Bridge Date: 17 Feb 08 - 09:46 PM I don't think you are thinkng of teh songs as you read teh words written here about them, Buck. Times they are a-changin neatly expresses the scorn that youth always has for its parents. That saves it from soppiness. Blowing in the Wind teeters on twee at times, but again there is there is the rhetorically expressed anger - How many times must, etc |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: Azizi Date: 17 Feb 08 - 10:13 PM Somewhat off-topic: Richard Bridge, In two of your posts to this thread you used the word "twee". The first time you used it, I wondered if you were referring to the "Twi" language and culture of the Akan peoples of Ghana, West Africa. But the second time, I figured that was probably not the case. So I decided to look up the meaning of the word "twee". I'm posting that definition here in case there are other "UnitedStaters" and folks from other countries reading this thread who also don't know this word: twee One entry found. twee Main Entry: twee Pronunciation: \ˈtwç\ Function: adjective Etymology: baby-talk alteration of sweet Date: 1905 chiefly British : affectedly or excessively dainty, delicate, cute, or quaint http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/twee -snip- Oh, what you were saying is that the song Kumbaya has become corny {and maybe sappy is another adjective that fits that definition of "twee"}. Okay. I get it. Thanks, Richard, for providing an opportunity to learn that British colloquial term! |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: Azizi Date: 17 Feb 08 - 10:18 PM Hmm, I thought I saw the definition "corny" in that dictionary entry, but apparently not. Are corny and sappy what you meant by "twee", Richard? Those descriptors seems to fit what some people think of the song Kumbaya instead of [the American definitions of] "affectedly or excessively dainty, delicate, cute, or quaint". |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: Phil Cooper Date: 17 Feb 08 - 10:43 PM I have nothing against Kumbaya. I don't have much feel for it, either. I was first exposed to it by camp counselors at a church camp I was sent to in the summer after fourth grade, when I didn't want to go. I was uncomfortable with the forced comraderie and the buddy system (when swimming). I liked the fact that the counselor's played instruments. Perhaps watching them play guitars and banjos warped my young sensibilities. But Kumbaya seemed to be more force feeding of the religious subtext of the whole camp thing. I thought the counselors seemed to have more fun playing their instruments with each other after they sent us all back to our cabins. I'm perfectly willing to say when voicing my opinion on the song that one should consider the source, before making their own judgement. |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: GUEST,Art Thieme Date: 17 Feb 08 - 11:20 PM TWEES I think that I will never see A poem as bad as Kilmer's Twees So here I leave the rhyme scheme of that horrid verse With hopes that never e'er shall I be known to write A poem that's any worse! Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: Janie Date: 18 Feb 08 - 02:18 AM I'll risk making a fool of myself here. I think it a lovely song of sorrow in search of solace. A prayer. Janie |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: Richard Bridge Date: 18 Feb 08 - 03:21 AM Perhaps there is another Atlantic gulf here - but I am not sure that I am wholly clear about "corny" - the usage you suggest indicates to me something different from the way I would use "corny". To me "corny" implies a fashion that has become dated. An old joke is "corny". Those metal bars with a little weight on the end that held shirt collars down are now corny. A song expressing old fashioned popular values may be corny. "Sappy" I don't know of being used in England in the way you imply. "Sappy" to me would indicate young flexible wood growing with vigour, and by analogy a young person's vigorous pushing aside of the old. "Twee", to me means excessively socially sweet or "nice" (but not "nice" in a good way), cloying, saccharine - overly inoffensive, self-consciously winsome. Beatrix Potter's books and animals in Victorian dresses are twee. The Rev. W. Aldry's books (the original "Thomas the Tank Engine") are twee. "My Little Pony" is twee. Most things chintzy are twee. Constance Spry verses in greetings cards are twee. Cards for mothering Sunday (a specified date on the Christian religious calendar) calling it "mother's day, or worse, "Mummy's day" are twee. A woman of 30 or over calling her mother "mummy" or her father "daddy" is twee. A man of over 30 doing so is nauseating. I would not equate twee with daintiness or delicacy, and certainly not with quaintness which implies old-fashioned. "Cute" to mean "attractive" I also find nauseating. I object to its colonisation of the English language. It can mean acute or adept (as in "a cute trick"). It is a word I almost never use, and certainly never in the American way which I also find imprecise (maybe because I am too busy vomiting to think about its meaning). The use of the word "cute" however, is twee. Where others might say of a baby girl that she is "cute" I would say "pretty" or "attractive" or "fetching". I hope that clarifies what I was meaning. |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: John MacKenzie Date: 18 Feb 08 - 04:30 AM Like the poem Art 'McGonigle' Thieme. G ¦¬] |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: KT Date: 18 Feb 08 - 06:13 AM Janie, you're a treasure! KT |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: Azizi Date: 18 Feb 08 - 07:18 AM Richard, thanks for that clarification. One of the interesting things about this international forum {Mudcat} is to come across different slang and word usages and meanings between American English and other forms of English. With regard to the American {United States} meanings that I meant for the adjectives "corny" and "sappy", www.answers.com gives this definition for the adjective "corny"- " Trite, dated, melodramatic, or mawkishly sentimental." In my sentence, I meant the last definition given for "corny": "Some people think that the song Kumbaya is corny {mawkishly sentimental}." ** Also, answers.com gives these definitions for the adjective "sappy": 1.Full of sap; juicy. 2.Slang. Excessively sentimental; mawkish. 3.Slang. Silly or foolish. -snip- In my sentence, I meant the second definition of "sappy". "Some people think that the song Kumbaya is sappy {excessively sentimental}. So, it can be said that some people think the song Kumbaya is twee. But those people don't include me. :o) |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: Tinker Date: 18 Feb 08 - 08:51 AM Perhaps as time goes on Kumbayah isn't quite as over done as we think. A couple of summers ago I took a group of kids on a Church sponsered mission trip where we met up with kids from churches from through out the mid west US. One evening the activity was a simulation on economic injustice. As the upper 5 percent were seated and waited on with soda and popcorn directly infront of the movie screen the next 10% sat on the floor behind them and were told to be quiet and not disturb the people in front of them. They had a handful of popcorn and a juice box. The "masses" were then brought to the back of the room and basically bossed around and given nothing. The kids from my rather liberal eastern suburb had done this type of thing before and all began assorted protests.... But when it became clear they needed to organize the other 50 kids to acomplish anything I suddenly heard ... "Look we'll march up to the front singing Kumbayah..." "What's that ???" Not a single other Church group new the song. They ended up singing Row Row Row your boat because it was the only song they all knew. The actions were louder than the words. But part of me wishes the other kids had known the words..... |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 18 Feb 08 - 09:18 AM Good point, Tinker (and Azizi too, as always) What's it's easy to forget is that to us been-there-done-that oldies, Kumbayah is over-familiar because we've all heard it sung and sung and sung. But to kids it's still a new experience, and I think it's right to introduce them to it. As has already been pointed out, however tired of it one may get, it's still a beautiful song with meaningful words (good scope for harmony singing too, an important aspect for me). |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: wysiwyg Date: 18 Feb 08 - 09:35 AM Every genre has its own dirty-word songs. In our circles, "Amazing Grace" is one of the least welcome requests (among others), and I believe that Seamus Kennedy has his own list of "No" songs. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Feb 08 - 10:17 AM "...perfectly set up for many, many people to sing in unison." Room for some good harmonies as well. ...................................... "Cure" is an interesting word - in Irish usage it means "clever" or "cunning", maybe related to "acute". (The word for the My Little Pony type "cute" is ""doty".) Does that apply among Irish Americans? ........................................ Folkies can sometimes get horribly smart-arsed and snobbish about the business of what songs are seen as out of bounds. More often than not the list would include most of the songs that would most likely be welcomed and appreciated by ordinary people. And yet the essential ethos of "folk music" is that it is the music of "ordinary people" (even when they don't know it.) |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: Cats Date: 18 Feb 08 - 11:04 AM Last night there was a TV programme about Desmond Tutu. It was 'Songs of Praise' on BBC1. Now, I am not a follower of this programme at all but I count Desmond Tutu as one of my all time heroes. On it there was a South African choir singing a wonderful arrangement of something that was vaguely familiar but I couldn't think what it was until about 2 minutes in when it dawned on me it was Kumbaya. I have to admit I cringe at the mention of Kumbaya but this version was absolutley superb and definitley worth going onto the BBC website just to hear it. |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: GUEST,Chicken Charlie Date: 18 Feb 08 - 11:59 AM IMO, the problem with the song is nothing to do with music--as a song, it's fine--nor with the meaning, alleged meaning, pseudo-meaning, pseudo-porno-meaning or other-meaning of the word. I am still chuckling over the idea of American "familiarity" with Gullah. That in itself, to me, is a Kumbaya moment. What the problem is, I think, is the naive belief that massive socio-economic problems can be easily addressed. Best example was a friend of mine saying that if we ever catch Osama bin Laden, we should just all sit down and sing "Kumbaya" together. Solving problems and eliminating differences is a laudable GOAL, but given human nature, it will take more than wishing. Oh, and LittleHawk, the next time you have such a lovely inspiration for raising the level of discourse, would you do me a favor and keep it the eff to yourself? Chicken Charlie |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: George Papavgeris Date: 18 Feb 08 - 12:24 PM Of all the explanations and theories, my favourite remains Spaw's from yesterday. "... sadness and sorrow over our loss of innocence which we can never recover", yes that hits home. And we shouldn't forget either that youth is a time to be innocent and idealistic to the point of naivete. If we don't dream, we never strive and achieve, only survive, and sometimes not even that. And here is what saddens me most: when I see youngsters disillusioned. So, nothing wrong with having once sung "Kumbaya" with arms interlinked at some concert or round a fire, and nothing wrong with having had strong emotions at the time. And if the same doesn't ring as true today as it did then, well guess what, the song hasn't changed. Only we have. And if maturity means becoming emotionally arteriosclerotic and jaded, then f*ck maturity; it's just a form of slow death. The Who's lyric was wrong - it should have been "hope I die before I get cynical". |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Feb 08 - 12:33 PM Takes more than wishing - but without wishing there isn't a chance in hell of achieving those things. All this has an interesting echo in the current pre-election goings-on in America, with exchanges about "hope" between Clinton and Obama. I anticipate that at some time Obama will get slagged off as "the Kumbaya candidate", if that hasn't happened as yet. |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: meself Date: 18 Feb 08 - 01:14 PM [Re: 'cute'. In some rural areas of Canada it is indeed used in the sense of 'acute', 'sly', 'tricky' ... Whether this comes from Irish usage I don't know, but the regions I associate this usage with do have considerable Irish influence: Newfoundland and the Ottawa Valley]. Re: Kumbaya. Once again, I'm struck by how much our reaction to certain songs depends on the specific circles we've travelled in - or spun out of. I sang Kumbaya enough as a kid in the 'sixties to get mightily tired of it, but I don't think I ever associated it with civil rights or the saving of the world generally. I understood it to have vaguely African origins, but this was just a point of interest without political overtones. It was simply, like Michael Row the Boat Ashore, an appealing (for awhile) spiritual that everyone could join in on. When we sang We Shall Overcome, on the other hand, I think most kids were aware of its connection with the civil rights movement, which I'm sure we all (as good Canadians) felt was a worthy enterprise, but I certainly didn't imagine that a bunch of us singing it around a campfire was going to change anything. It was something to sing, and an inspiration to think a bit about people who were in a tough situation, and were struggling to do something about it ... So I don't feel any embarrassment about any of those songs - but that has to do with my own experience, and not with the songs themselves. |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: Lonesome EJ Date: 18 Feb 08 - 01:43 PM I learned this song in my Junior High Chorus Class. It was 1964 and I had never heard of the song before.It really seemed kind of exotic, in its African words and styling. We learned to sing trailing harmonies to it, with the basses and tenors singing Kumbaya just before the altos and sopranos shadowed the word with their higher harmony. We sang it in the gymnasium to an assembly of our schoolmates and teachers, and I can recall that the usually rowdy crowd was silent as the echoes of the song reverberated in the hall. It was always the kind of song that had a sort of magic in it, that sounded better unaccompanied by instruments, that sounded, as Janie said, like a prayer. Kumbaya, my Lord, Kumbaya! Kumbaya, my Lord, Kumbaya! Kumbaya, my Lord, Kumbaya! Oh, Lord! Kumbaya! Someone's crying, Lord, Kumbaya! Someone's crying, Lord, Kumbaya! Someone's crying, Lord, Kumbaya! Oh, Lord! Kumbaya! Someone's singing, Lord, Kumbaya! Someone's singing, Lord, Kumbaya! Someone's singing, Lord, Kumbaya! Oh, Lord! Kumbaya! Someone's praying, Lord, Kumbaya! Someone's praying, Lord, Kumbaya! Someone's praying, Lord, Kumbaya! Oh, Lord! Kumbaya! Beautiful in its simplicity, the song bears no reponsibility for how it was used, whether as a civil rights anthem or an anti-war hymn. It also transcends its use as a chide. When I hear it, it lies beyond those connotations, somewhere in the heart of a thirteen year old boy, where it still resonates. |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: BuckMulligan Date: 18 Feb 08 - 01:50 PM Richard - thanks, but I didn't imply that I thought the songs were in the same category, I expressly wondered whether things expressed here also applied to them. Appreciate the clarification though. |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: GUEST,Pinetop Slim Date: 18 Feb 08 - 02:51 PM Thanks for posting the lyrics, Lonesome EJ. Insert the meaning of Kumbayah as posted earlier -- Come By Here -- and it reads like a very lovely benediction. If such a benediction has become a cliche, we all may be in deeper trouble than we thought. And if we're ashamed to admit to idealism or, worse, inclined to sneer at it, we're in deeper trouble still. Kumbayah needs a Willie Nelson, someone able to pick a worn-out song off the trash heap and breathe new life into it. |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: Richard Bridge Date: 18 Feb 08 - 05:04 PM God helps those who help themselves. |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Feb 08 - 05:28 PM But God help those who only help themselves... |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: GUEST,Art Thieme Date: 18 Feb 08 - 06:40 PM Folks, Try "Amazing Grace" with the tune of the old TV show theme from Gilligan's Island. They go great together!! ;-) Art |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: GUEST,Art again Date: 18 Feb 08 - 06:47 PM I once heard Bob Gibson sing it: Someone's kidding lord, Kum ba ya! You've got to be kidding, lord, kum ba ya... Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: KT Date: 18 Feb 08 - 07:07 PM "When I hear it, it lies beyond those connotations, somewhere in the heart of a thirteen year old boy, where it still resonates." Beautiful, LEJ! That's the core I was talking about way up there (17 Feb 08 - 03:27 AM ) KT |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: KT Date: 18 Feb 08 - 07:15 PM So now I'm thinking about how one would define "Kumbaya Moment." In it's simplist form, doesn't it mean, having one's heart wide open with hope and longing for what is good and right? Nothin' wrong with that. I'm reminded of a phrase from our own George Papavgeris - "Where are the flowers that we put into the muzzles of the guns?" KT |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Feb 08 - 07:21 PM When the word "naive" comes into play, there's a proverb of William Blake that seems curiously relevant: "If the fool would persist in his folly he would become wise." |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: GUEST,LDB Date: 18 Feb 08 - 08:38 PM Art, I know you only by your recordings and appearance at Winfield, but I heard this the other day and thought this might have been something you would have taken further even if it was from Kilmer. I think that I shall never see A conservative who loves a tree. LDB |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: katlaughing Date: 19 Feb 08 - 11:50 AM KT, the photographer who took the famous flowers in the gun muzzle just died this past year. I started a thread about it, but it didn't get many hits.:-) LeeJ, thanks...that's exactly what meant. |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive) Date: 19 Feb 08 - 11:59 AM This may have already been said, somewhere in the thread. Kumbaya is a lovely song, but it's one of those songs that's been played just one too many times for me. I have one or two like that, that were in my repetoire, but I'm now resting them due to over-exposure. Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool) |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: Richard Bridge Date: 19 Feb 08 - 12:09 PM I think we are mostly now embarrassed by what we fervently believed in when we were 13, aren't we? |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: Little Hawk Date: 19 Feb 08 - 12:30 PM So true! I fervently believed in a girl named Pam Ford when I was 13. She was the most popular girl in my class. She even became a cheerleader and I think she was Prom Queen too. I doubt that we would find much to talk about now. Now, then, how about "hootenanny"? Anyone remember when that word became totally passe? It wore out a lot quicker than Kumbaya did. |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Feb 08 - 12:34 PM "...it's one of those songs that's been played just one too many times for me." When was the last time you sang it or heard someone sing it? Not for a good few years I bet. Sometimes these "overexposed" songs don't in fact get any exposure at all. |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive) Date: 19 Feb 08 - 12:36 PM when was the last time I sang it...about 2 months ago, on request from a member of the audience...have a NICE day. Charlotte (knows of what she speaks) |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego Date: 19 Feb 08 - 01:17 PM Living in a culture accustomed to sound bites, "buzz words" and catch phrases, it is easy to wear things out from overuse. I do happen to find the sentiment in "Kumbaya" a little simplistic and naive, but isn't altruism, while possibly also simple and naive, a deeply valued social tradition in many cultures? |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive) Date: 19 Feb 08 - 01:21 PM There are people that love the song. I was part of a team that went around to retirement homes and sang and played for the residents at the time I last sang Kumbaya, and one of the said residence said to me afterwards about Kumbaya, the old saw..."they don't write them like that anymore, and you know what? That woman was right. Charlotte (performs for all the community) |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: BuckMulligan Date: 19 Feb 08 - 05:48 PM I'm not embarrassed by what I believed in 1962. (I was a tad bit older than 13 though) (ok, sixteen). I'm embarrassed that I let so much of it fall away, in fact. I guess it makes a difference what you believed when you were 13. Kumbaya is, after all, a luulaby, not a protest song (as Richard so correctly pointed out). (Sorta). |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive) Date: 19 Feb 08 - 06:13 PM I'm not embarrassed by what I believed when I was thirteen. I believed what I believed then, I believe what I believe now...why be embarrassed? Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool) |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Feb 08 - 07:06 PM When I was thirteen? Quite a few changes, nothing to be embarassed about- why should there be, as Charlotte said there. Twenty and up - not too much change, basically. "Oh, my friend, we're older but no wiser For in our hearts, the dreams are still the same" |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: meself Date: 19 Feb 08 - 07:20 PM I dreamed I would be wiser - wise as I was ... Ah, but I was so much older then ... |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: Slag Date: 19 Feb 08 - 07:29 PM Maybe most of you are to close to the subject to see that when those in the media use the term "Kumbaya moment" it is synonymous with claptrap. It is a song everybody knows and salutes. Yes, maybe smarmy to some but it's really about putting something forward that is not new and doesn't raise anyone's hackles. Leastwise, that's my take. I like Kumbaya. I never got to hear it enough. Too much rock on the stations where I grew up. As for Joyce Kilmer, yes smarmy and boy, could he ever mix metaphors! |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: Azizi Date: 19 Feb 08 - 07:55 PM Here's a political quote that addresses what the phrase "Kumbaya moment" has come to mean in the USA: "KUMBAYA In what may have been the most nonpartisan moment of this past summer, the official White House portraits of Bill Clinton and his wife, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, were unveiled in an unabashedly sentimental ceremony. President Bush praised his predecessor as a man ''with far-ranging knowledge of public policy, a great compassion for people in need,'' and ''42,'' as Bush nicknamed him, was grateful ''for all those kind and generous things you've said.'' David Sanger, a Times reporter, wrote, ''Graciousness oozed from all sides,'' and Representative Rahm Emanuel, Democrat of Illinois, who had been one of Clinton's most effectively partisan White House aides, noted, ''I thought everybody was going to break out in 'Kumbaya.''' As the campaign heated up, the conservative radio talk-show host Laura Ingraham told Larry King of CNN that ''while this kumbaya moment that we're all sharing about party unity is wonderful, the truth of the matter is -- '' and then popped Senator Kerry for his blast at the president for outsourcing the hunt for Osama bin Laden. John Tierney of The Times, in his lively Political Points column, quoted Kerry's call for a ''more sensitive war on terror'' and awarded him the ''Kumbaya Prize.'' " http://www.cmicdf.org/News/the--62-magazine-62-on-language-gaming.html -snip- So what does "Kumbaya moment" mean? How about "an occurance or event noted for its participant/s expression of fake admiration or affection for an individual or for a group of people, or for an another person's accomplishment/s"? Needless to say, I'm open to "hearing" what you think this relatively newly coined phrase means. {Relatively newly coined=less than 10 years old. That's just a guess as I'm not sure how long the phrase "kumbaya moment" has been in use. But I don't think the phrase has been used for a long time}. |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: Slag Date: 20 Feb 08 - 01:29 AM How about Rodney King's "Can't we all just get along?" That moment NEEDED Kumbaya. |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 20 Feb 08 - 02:03 AM "Overdose of sincerity." As actors are taught - 'when you can fake sincerity, yuo can handle anything'... |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: Rowan Date: 20 Feb 08 - 06:06 PM Great stuff, Azizi. As usual. And there's been some impressive sensitivity on display from most on this thread. In Oz, I recall Kumbaya being sung a lot but the contexts and overtones seemed (to me) to deal with group cohesion and unity of purpose. There was some connotation with American Civil Rights but I suspect only those rare individuals who'd spent time in the Carolinas would pick a Gullah connection and, while recognised as having lullaby atttributes I can't recall anyone identifying the song as such, specifically. You don't hear it much these days, probably because it has become what Poms and Aussies would describe as "hackneyed". At a time when the scout movement was a major location for informal group singing, the 1st Hackney Scout Troop put out a hardbound songbook; I still have my father's copy from the early 1930s. It had the words of a lot of English "traditional" or "folk" songs (both sensu latu and sensu strictu); Tom Pierce is an example. When the folk revival got going in Oz (anywhere from the late 50s to late 60s depending on your definitions) there were a lot of English folk songs being sung, but very few dared to sing such things as Tom Pierce except as parody; the ridicule from those who thought themselves the 'masters of the genre' was intense. I suspect Kumbaya might, nowadays, frequently be given the same treatment in Oz, irrespective of contexts. But, sung with serious intent, almost any hackneyed song still is capable of giving goose bumps. To the audience as well. Cheers, Rowan |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: Little Hawk Date: 20 Feb 08 - 06:15 PM Just as an aside, Foolestroupe...we had a prime minister in Canada who was an absolute master at faking sincerity...so much so that he became known as "Lyin' Brian". He was a real smoothie. That was Brian Mulroney. He was Canada's chief exec through the Reagan years, and he and Reagan just doted on each other. He gave us NAFTA (so-called Free Trade, but it ain't!) He remains the single most detested political leader in Canada's history...but MAN, could that guy ever sound sincere! |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Feb 08 - 08:44 PM The other thing is when people go in for faking cynicism, because they feel embarrassed at letting their real feelings out, There's quite a lot of that about too. |
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Subject: RE: Why is Kumbaya a dirty word? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Feb 08 - 09:25 PM Here is a longish (and interesting) article about the song and the sneers thaty thisthread have explored - "Someone's dissin', Lord, kumbaya" |
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