Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 03:21 AM

If the 1954 definition is the 'law' then the 'law' is a ass...

"Do what thou wilt" is the whole of the law.

BTW when a traditional tune is used by a composer such as Vaughan William, is it folk or classical music? When a traditional song is used by a rock/pop band such as Thin Lizzie, is it folk or rock or pop? Point is, who gives a stuff?

If Seth can be described as a "folk hero" in his TV commercial, what does that make Eliza; a "folk goddess"? Hey, I'll go along with that!

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 03:46 AM

Al, read my folking lips! Whether something is "folk" is nothing to do with whether one likes it. It is a definition that enables folk music, dance, and arts to be distinguished and maybe understood.

And as another socialist, you should understand that I do not genefluct becuase of family, but ability. Remember, I am always polite about your ability even if what you do is not folk (*maybe "yet", see below) (and so long as you do not play the sodding grand piano or banjo).

The other thing you know but deny is that arrangement (eg fiddle-de-dee in stead of fiddle-di-die) is anything at all to do with whether somethign is folk - or intrinsically of merit. Folk evolves precisely because of variation, sometimes intentional, sometimes not. If enough people in a community start to sing "Buster, the line dancing dog" and it evolves in that community it will become folk music, as Robert Johnson's compositions became folk music in the USA, as Tom Paxton's and Pete Seeger's and Woody Guthrie's (all USA) and some of Steve Tilston's; and Ewan MacColl's and Bert Lloyd's (and maybe even Billy Bragg's) compositions are currently evolving in some hands and probably will become folk music in due course. It'll be longer before they become traditional.

As the facts stood at the time, what Martn Carthy said was exactly right (but then I happen to think he usually is.

To come right back to it - Seth Lakeman does do some folk songs. His overall sound has a fair buzz to it. I wish his folk songs were more recognisably the songs they used to be, but as he is the artist and interpreter I cannot criticise his chosen arrangements simply because they do not sound like the way I would (if I could) arrange the same songs. That does not make them "not folk". It might make them not to my taste, but that is a different thing.

Oddly, since some of his songs came to him through oral transmission in a community evironment, he may at times be a folksinger. At times he is definitely a folksong singer. But when he is singing his own original material he is neither. So, for the "Folk" part of the question - sometimes and maybe.

As for the "Hero" part, I'm not sure if I agree with Magrath's view that a hero has to do something brave or risky to qualify. If that were so many "guitar heros" would not qualify at all. Has Lakeman done something of exceptional merit that makes him a role model? I thnk the jury must still be out on that, but for my money although what he does has brought some music with some connection to folk more into the public eye and ear (which must be good in parts, although it also colours the public perception of what "folk" is, which could be bad) I don't think he has earned the accolade "hero" yet.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 03:47 AM

Well done Seth! I have enjoyed listening to your music at some of the Folk festivals I have been to ......

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 03:48 AM

Leveller, you should not, as a leveller, adopt the defintion of the Hell Fire club - they were bored rich parasites who played at black magic for the sex. And frankly their descriptions of felching were pretty nauseating.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 03:57 AM

Richard, I was thinking of Aleister Crowley, actually. He painted that across the side of a Scottish mountain. As a lawyer, would you not say that the law is open to a degree of interpretation? Personally, I vere towards anarchy.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Folknacious
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 04:23 AM

Thanks Jon for posting the 1954 definition of "folk" / punk rock.

But really important supplementary question: WHO made up that definition, and where/ how/when was it published?

Some definers are more reliable than others: I'm not going to put a lot of weight behind the Louis Armstrong stable;, for example . . .

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 05:00 AM

As always you are in the right Richard. fiddle di dee and fiddle di doh are in so many ways totally unreconcileable.

Personally I live in hope that Paul Simon will nick Buster the Line Dancing Dog like he nicked Scarborough Fair off Elza's Dad, and then the whole world will be dancing Busters Boneseach - the official Buster the Line dancing Dog line dance. Though Tex from Stockport who devised this dance warns that it is fraught with danger for beginners.

Who knows perhaps Dylan will write a variant

If you travel in the North Country fair
Where the winds hit heavy on Wigan Pier
Remember me to Buster the Line dancing dog
For he is prettier than a picture by Van Gog

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 05:19 AM

If the 1954 definition is the 'law' then the 'law' is a ass...

No folk definition is the law. They just represent a view some people hold.

Personally, I find the view better that definitions based on things like "music written by the people for the people with meaningful words about causes".

Folk contains all sorts and has been written by all sorts and the only binding factor I can find in the traditional repertoire is that people liked the stuff enough to sing, play and pass down. I don't believe in "follow a forumula" and you have created a folk song.

OK, the views of others do differ and I accept that. I will state my views and try to explain them but (seemingly unlike a few others) I don't demand they must be adopted by all or call others asses for thier views.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 05:20 AM

I suspect that anyone who ever willingly stood up and performed in front of a folk club audience would have probably dreamed of the acclaim which has been afforded to Mr.Lakeman.
He has been well-marketed, but I leave it to the individual whether they like his music or not.
I don't understand the term "Folk music" anymore, I know the term terrifies many people at the thought of having to attend a function with "folksingers" and I find myself in large agreement with Diane Easby's recent posting on this matter.

Mr. Lakeman is certainly not a "Hero", however I do wish him luck in his endeavours.

Maybe it is simply a case of some people in the folk scene needing to have Stars and Heroes, as other forms of music appear to have.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 05:21 AM

(missed my name above).

The 1954 definition was drawn up by "The International Folk Music Council".

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 05:34 AM

I suspect that anyone who ever willingly stood up and performed in front of a folk club audience would have probably dreamed of the acclaim which has been afforded to Mr.Lakeman.

I suppose within my dreams, I'd be lying if I said I'd never dream pt of stardom but I'd still answer "not really". I do it sometimes but these days especially, I don't enjoy performing to others and am far more comfortable in sessions.

Acclaim, I guess would be nice but I fall way way (and a few more miles again...) short of the standards. The one I'd dream of being wouldn't be particularly in the public eye but a sort of "master musician", perhaps only known by other musicians.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 05:35 AM

"The International Folk Music Council".

those of us who lived through those times can only too readily imagine them. I bet it was like the Brish Trades Alphabet - given out to all school kids.

We sent off to Cadbury's - and they sent us leaflets about gallant black men harvesting cocoa, before going home to their mud huts. We sent off to Robertsons marmalade, and they sent us leaflets about about gallant spanish people picking oranges all day before going home to do a bit of bullfighting. gallant Australians shearing sheep all day and singing Clip go the shears Boy!

and when we got the leaflets - we did projects on them.

You can just imagine the International Folk Music Council, I bet they made the Eskimo leave his kayak outside the conference hall.

The world was stupider in those days - we need to wise up!

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 05:44 AM

"I don't demand they must be adopted by all or call others asses for thier views. "

No-one's demanding anything (well I'm certainly not) just trying to bring a light-hearted touch to stop things getting too heavy. Unfortunately, you can't see the tongue that is very firmly in my cheek. I'm permanently on the run from the folk police - just hope they never catch me; the punishment would be terrible (no, no, not the hours of massed melodeons.....)

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 05:47 AM

It's a difficult medium, I agree, Leveller.

Anyway, what ever tempers are raised in these threads, wherever we disagree and how strongly (at least within reason) we argue. I'd still buy you a pint if you wound up a Norwich session.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: The Barden of England
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 05:48 AM

They'll get you far that theLeveller ;-)

John Barden

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 05:57 AM

Personally I prefer the Bert Lloyd definition that it is as easy to define a folk song as it is to depict the exact moment that dawn breaks and night turns into day.
When I saw Seth Lakeman at Off The Tracks festival in 2005 he played two elongated sets on the open air stage when it was bitterly cold and blowing a gale which kept most of the attendees either inside or huddled around the periphery of the courtyard. This meant that he was virtually playing to a wide open space with no apparent audience. Not once did his standards drop neither did I hear one word of complaint;the term "folk hero" might have crossed my mind on that occasion.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 06:00 AM

Thanks, Jon, same here if you get up to t' far north.

John, they'll have to catch me first!

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Deeps
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 06:07 AM

Jon, free beer in Norwich? I'm on my way, we'll raise a glass to our mutual hero 'Banjo' Barney.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 06:15 AM

Your on!

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,LJW
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 06:41 AM

Folks come on this site and pontificate about what is and isn't folk, and moan about the demise of folk clubs and the folk tradition. Those that slate Seth Lakeman for what he does are part of the problems they complain about!

I've covered Seth's songs in folk clubs, and they are very well received; can't always say that for some of your more "acceptable" folk songs.

Rock on Seth....

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: mattkeen
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 06:44 AM

Talk about shitting in your own nest

Its not a good idea


Most of the population think we are made for liking the music and song that we do (trad and folk) and here we are giving more and more evidence that we are indeed barking mad and making it as hard as possible for those outside of the temple to get a look in

As if they would want to on the basis of this type of thread

eliza is so great when she's angry!

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: mattkeen
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 06:48 AM

"mad" rather than "made"

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 07:01 AM

Some of Seth Lakeman's fans seem to be very angry all the time. Shouldn't they they be a bit pleased he's doing well?
Why this subject generates such heat I have never managed to grasp. Surely we don't need to accuse people of hating youth, just because they aren't Seth Lakeman fans? I am sure someone could say "I don't like Amy Winehouse" or"The Young Tradition leave me cold" without the wrath of God, Mudcat and Colin Irwin descending on them. So what is it about Seth Lakeman fans that they always carry cudgels? Personally, I am an immense fan of These United States, but if I meet someone who doesn't like them I don't accuse them of having Aran sweaters, pot bellies, beards and tankards. I just say "have a listen, you might be surprised".

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,LJW
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 07:07 AM

Well - as an example of polarity here we have Eliza's talent and opinion on the one hand, and Diane Easby's on the other. Bitterness from frustration is something I'm very happy to do without - helps you to live longer apparently. Do we wonder why our folk clubs can't seem to attract any generations beyond out own?

Too many Dianasaurs in folk clubs?

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: TheSnail
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 07:13 AM

I may not have followed this thread perfectly, but has anybody actually said they object to Seth Lakeman being popular? or object to him being successful? or object to him making money? or object to him being young? or object to him playing the music he chooses to play? or think there is anything wrong with the quality of his work?

I thought someone just said they didn't recognise it as folk music.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 07:24 AM

Oops.
What I was going to say is directed at WLD-I'm not part of any exclusive clique. No-one I know would refuse to know you if you came up and shook our hands.
What I am part of is a family, a musical one, and I can't help that. I can't help that my family has worked since the turn of the last century (my grandparents on my Dad's side were casually involved in the earlier folk revival) to broaden the musical gene pool of this scene and study and practise the music. The reason they are well-known is because they are good at what they do and believe in inclusivity, in the ability of anyone that wants to take up the music as a hobby or a profession-they have helped lots of people to do that, whether through their research , workshops, or just making records of previously obscure or forgotten material that can be returned to the community.
   That's how we do it, and yes I have a head-start, and I am extremely lucky for that, but I do not place any value in it over anyone else's level of involvement beyond seeing it as an opportunity to open more doors. Some people have a problem with that, some don't care, some will be flattering to me and mine, which is lovely as long as they can drop it at some point and still want to have a good fight with me afterwards! I don't expect people to agree with me. That's no fun at all...
I was brought up by my folks to believe that the folk scene is all about inclusivity. Bless them, idealists, they were wrong. They know. Most people don't like to think about this, but the folk scene is a music industry and as such is as vulnerable to fads, crazes and cultural dead-ends as any other scene.
x e

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 07:24 AM

What a weird post from somebody called LJW. Does s/he often have such eyesight problems?

(1) Eliza Carthy and I were saying roughly the same thing.

(2) Hands up anyone who's seen me in a "f*lk" club this year? I think I've been once at the only one I don't avoid like the plague.

(3) My name is not "Diana". Clearly LJW does not know me.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Andrez
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 07:27 AM

Thanks to the two people who posted links so that non UK 'catters could see and hear what people have been debating (sic)!

In the end I reckon its better to enjoy playing or hearing the music you can today 'cos you might not be around the next day to bitch about whether or not its really folk.

Definitions of "folk" are nothing more than constructs that people have assembled at one time or another and then use to control is what "acceptable" or otherwise in terms of the music. Religions use similar strategies to promote their world views too.

Whether or not SL's music is folk or not boils down to a matter of opinion and in my world everyone is entitled to that opinion. So if you like the music, then thats great, if you dont like it say so and then shut the f..k up and dont try to promote those views over those of other people by using academic or "rustic" definitions of what folk music might or might not be.

In the end the music just is, and time will decide if the music has any lasting qualities to be included in the public canon. The thing is that its likely that none of the contributors to this thread are likely to be around to see what happens.

In the meantime, I think that Seth Lakemans music is a breath of fresh air in a sargasso sea of old folk fogies. Good on him for doing something different and having a go! My 14 year old fiddling daughter will love it when I show her the clips tomorrow.

Cheers,

Andrez

PS: Reminds me of that old joke:

Q: How many folkies does it take to change a light bulb?

A: Change?

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,LJW
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 07:30 AM

I know you well from your rants on this site Diane - sorry I'm not able to spell Dinosaur correctly

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 07:33 AM

but the folk scene is a music industry and as such is as vulnerable to fads, crazes and cultural dead-ends as any other scene.

I understand something you said earlier a little better now. I do feel as if I "belong" somewhere within folk and do feel part of it joining in with others (of all ages) and that folk music is for me but using that "definition" of the folk scene, I think you are right and it isn't for me/I don't belong.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Kev The Clogs
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 07:41 AM

All very interesting! I have a wide liking of many forms of music, yet it was only six years ago that I was "exposed" to the world of folk.

I LOVE IT! I have listened to many "Folk" artists during that time - some I like, some I don't like. Whether of not they ARE Folk is not important to me at all. I certainly don't want to base my listening habits on that pompous piece of 1954 pre-Orwellian thought police "rule".

I am an unaccompanied singer. I have learnt and sung songs that I have heard in pubs, from albums and at concerts - ranging from Eliza to Show of Hands to The Young Coppers to John Barden to Richard Bridge and Pete Hicks. A mixture of names there - some "folk stars" in the world of folk, some stars in the world of the local clubs and festivals. I would happily stand up an sing any number of songs that I have listened to, and then learnt, from any of these artists.

I would not do so in a Karaoke, as I woould be laughed out of the building. The Cheeky Girls would have the same response if they played Sidmouth!

I think what I am trying to get at is - that Folk is BIG, it's just made up of lots of different small pieces!! What I like, you may not. What I might think of as traditional, you may not. All I know is that when I sing and I can get the reaction of loud applause, or tears because it has touched someone, then that is down to hearing these songs somewhere else and then passing them on, in my way and style.

"And when we leave this mortal shore we'll meet with those that have gone before.
And shout to think we'll gain the day by marching in the good old way.
For I have a sweet hope of glory in my soul, I have a sweet hope of glory in my soul.
Well I know I have and I feel I have a sweet hope of glory in my soul"

What and who have gone before, are here now and are to come in the future - share a common link - we are individual folkies!!!

Kev the clogs

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 07:43 AM

LJW has been posting on this site as a guest for a grand total of one week.
I've been a Mudcat member for five long, tedious, exasperating years.
And for over 40 years I've donned every industry hat there is.
If/when I rant, there's a reason.
Seth Lakeman is a jolly nice person but I'm not at all keen on what he does musically.
I don't really think he minds.
He does what he does effectively and is not silly enough to expect everyone to like it all or even any.
It's the Sethettes who seem to think that it should be thus.
A bit . . . narrow?.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 07:48 AM

Andrez is a prime example of the angry Seth Lakeman fan I was talking about. So someone does or does not think Seth Lakeman's music is folk: that's not something to get het up about. That's classification, it's not a personal attack. I don't think JS Bach was a folk musician, so what? Would his fans attack me for saying so? If you say "black and white striped animals are zebras", that's just the same class of remark.A question of classification. It's not saying zebras are bad, and it may be innacurate, but it's not anything to get your knickers in a twist about. Can't we just afree that some people like some performers, and others dont. Some people think x is folk music, others think x isn't folk music. Why trade insults?
My own personal position, by the way, is that I like music from many different genres, and from many different age ranges of performers. I have plenty of recordings of rock,folk classical etc. I have plenty of recordings of 20 year olds, and 80 year olds.And as far as I am concerned, people are at total liberty to like or dislike as they feel.
    I think I might try an ad on TV saying Greg is a Folk Hero. Do they do any good? Anybody know how much they cost?

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: melodeonboy
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 07:53 AM

Indeed, Snail. There are too many people over-reacting.

Had I not been informed by the wise words of Mudcat contributors and Mr. Harding, I would honestly not have been aware that his music was categorised as folk. However, I bear him no ill will, and his age, popularity, success etc. are not really of great import to me one way or t'other.

Many of the contributors on this thread seem to be of the opinion that if you are a folkie and don't like his music (and I think I qualify on both counts!), then there must be something wrong with you. Childish, really!

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,LJW
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 07:55 AM

"five long, tedious, exasperating years." - bitterness and frustration..... and in five million years the barbed scales will be clearly visible to the archaeologist unfortunate enough to find them

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: mattkeen
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 08:01 AM

What makes me angry is not whether you (greg) or anybody likes Seth's music or not (I am not a huge fan of it myself) but its when you and other on this site declare it not "folk" and therefore byond the pale/pail

Fxck the 54 definition

I KNOW what eliza and others here are talking about and agree with them

I object to a self centred, semantic based smugness and gate keeping that is not recognisable by me in the music that I love but is, unfortunately very evident on this Forum

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: mattkeen
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 08:01 AM

Good post kev the clogs

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 08:04 AM

...declare it not "folk"...

"it's a folk album"

Is a declaration.

"I don't recognise it as folk"

Is an opinion.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,LJW
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 08:05 AM

Ditto Mattkeen

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 08:09 AM

"I think I might try an ad on TV saying Greg is a Folk Hero. Do they do any good? Anybody know how much they cost?"

If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 08:27 AM

Re Matt Keen saying that I say Seth Lakeman is not folk, and therefore beyond the pale. Well, firstly, I am surprised if I ever said Seth Lakeman is not a folk performer, I always classify him as such.He is obviously a folk performer, in the ordinary usage of the word(though not in the 1954 sense) Are you thinking of someone elsae?
And, if I have said that(my memory isn't what it used to be, it never was),in what sense could that be described as putting him "beyond the pale"? It's not a rude remark, classifying something as folk or rock or classical or hip-hop is it? Or do you perhaps mistake "folk" for "good"?

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: mattkeen
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 08:31 AM

No Greg I didn't say you said that
But you are an example of the semantic based smug smart arsedness that I dislike

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Andrez
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 08:32 AM

Sorry Greg, I had never heard of SL before this thread so I dont know how that makes me an "angry fan". I did check out the links provided and I liked what I saw sufficiently to investigate further sometime and thats it. 15 mins of exposure is hardly grounds for fanhood! But you obviously have a bee in your bonnet about SL's fans so go for it just dont tar me with your brush please.

After I read the whole thread I was responding to earlier points of view that seemed to echo the old and tired themes of "What is Folk". Your comment:

-And as far as I am concerned, people are at total liberty to like or dislike as they feel-

is what I was saying as well. Apart from the issue of SL's "angry fans" your "personal position" as stated is much the same as mine.

Go for it ElizaC, Kev the Clogs and Mattkeen too!

Cheers,

Andrez






I agree with Mattkeen and Eliza C are saying and I

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,baz parkes
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 09:07 AM

Greg's perceived "semantic based smart arsedness" is based on over 40 years involvement in ALL aspects of the "Folk" scene...not that he needs my faint praise. I think a shallowattack like that adds nothing to this discussion...sorry did I say discussion there?

Baz
who has a pot (rather more of a cauldron) belly, a beard, several tankards (although I rarely drink out of them other than to avoid the 50p deposit on a plastic that splits in 5 mins at festivals), but sadly the arran sweater shrunk in the wash some 30 years ago. And while we're on stereotypes, what happened to waistcoats with badges on them?

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Peace
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 09:17 AM

They're Rioting in Africa (The Merry Minuet)

They're Rioting in Africa (The Merry Minuet)
(Sheldon Harnick)

Intro:
    There are days in my life when everything is dreary
    I grow pessimistic, sad and world weary.
    But when I'm tearful and fearfully upset
    I always sing this merry little minuet:

They're rioting in Africa
They're starving in Spain
There's hurricanes in Florida
And Texas needs rain.

The whole world is festering
With unhappy souls
The French hate the Germans,
The Germans hate the Poles

Italians hate Yugoslavs
South Africans hate the Dutch
And I don't like anybody very much

But we can be grateful
And thankful and proud
That man's been endowed
With a mushroom shaped cloud

And we know for certain
That some happy day
Someone will set the spark off
And we will all be blown away

They're rioting in Africa
There's strife in Iran
What nature doesn't do to us
Will be done by our fellow man.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: mattkeen
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 09:18 AM

Long time - but whats that got to do with it?

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Peace
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 09:20 AM

What's what gotta do with what?

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: mattkeen
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 09:24 AM

Cross post Peace


Anyway- apologies for singling you out Greg, its just that the attitude displayed here makes me feel angry and you were there

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 09:27 AM

Well, Matt, at 8.31 you are saying "No Greg I didn't say you said that".(said that SL wasn't a folk performer, that is).
Curiously, at 8.31, you said exactly that:
"What makes me angry is not whether you (greg) or anybody likes Seth's music or not (I am not a huge fan of it myself) but its when you and other on this site declare it not "folk" and therefore byond the pale/pail".

Do you really have no recollection whatever of what you said half an hour before? As it's obviously a subject you feel very strongly about, I'm surprised it doesn't stick in your mind for longer.As to being sematic based, I'm afraid I don't what that means, so I can't really defend myself. Sounds pretty bad though, if it goes with being smug and smart-arsed.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 09:30 AM

Matt: I see I have just crossed posts with you, and that you apologised. Thank you very kindly, and I'm sorry if I have trod on your toes in any way, likewise.I don't think folk forums, especially when discussing Seth Lakeman, are conducive to friendly chats sometimes. Let's have a beer sometime.