Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!

Subject: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 08:49 AM

Well I never though I'd live to see the day! Little Seth, described as "Folk Hero" in the TV commercial for Poor Man's Heaven, is at No.8 in the album charts.

Let's just let that sink in – it's a folk album and it's in the top ten!

Great news for folk music.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Blue
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 09:01 AM

I know a folk album advertised on TV, wow, fabulous. Hope for us all.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 09:04 AM

Ring out wild bells.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 09:09 AM

YES!

(I don't doubt the usuals will be along to say he's not folk, but screw 'em.)

YEAH, Seth!

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: alanabit
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 09:14 AM

He's doing what he likes and he has done it without massive hype and the support that pretty young things get from the media. That means he has plenty of guts and integrity - whatever you think of his music. He is undoubtedly a real folk musician. He can play like one and he knows his folk music. Whether or not his current music is "folk" music... I'll leave that to others to fight out. Good luck to him. He's done bloody well.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 09:19 AM

If what he turns out bore a resemblance to anything I'd recognise as folk music, I might be joining the celebrating.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 09:23 AM

What's it got to do with whether it's folk music or not? If you like it, cheer. If you don't like it, don't cheer.Several other records are currently in the charts, also. Same applies.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 09:28 AM

What's it got to do with whether it's folk music or not?

It's got to do with the title of the thread, opening comments like "Let's just let that sink in – it's a folk album and it's in the top ten!" and other comments in the thread.

I don't like what I've heard of it either.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 09:29 AM

Aw, come on! If it's not folk music, it's the nearest thing to it that's likely to be enjoyed outside the narrow and claustrophobic world circumscribed by "the edict of '54".

Well done, Seth, you've stuck to your guns and you've earned it!

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 09:37 AM

Surely delight in someone achieving their dream is not affected by how some quite different person classifies the music? The lad's done well. So have all the other people in the charts, haven't they?

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 09:43 AM

I'm responding to comments made in the thread and reading that this album is a great folk album and a good thing for folk. Surely in that context, I'm entitled to my opinion the work bears no resemblance to folk.

Also, in the context of the thread, I'm believe its reasonable to express my view that I would be delighted to hear that something I do recognise as folk did well in the album charts.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 09:44 AM

My own opinion is that his chart success reflects his choice and performance of songs, ie. he's a wannabee pop singer, but I suspect he will draw a lot more people into folk music and that is a good thing.

eric

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 09:50 AM

I'm glad for him. Whether an interest in his music will generate a desire to see what folk music is like is another question...time will tell.I have met quite a few young people coming into folk at the moment, and I can't recall anyone mentioning this particular route in, but maybe that will develop?

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 10:00 AM

In one way I would say good luck to him. I'm just unmoved in the context of (or the way I'd read) the thread.

----
I'm unsure about the material attracting others into folk.

Part of me says there is always a good chance that someone may tune into say MH or go to a folk festival to hear SL and find they like other material they hear.

Another part of me says the material is so far removed from what I think of as folk, I'm doubtful people would hear the connection.

Time will tell.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 10:00 AM

Sorry, I forgot. It can't be folk music because it's popular and enjoyed by people who wouldn't know Cecil Sharp from a kick up the arse. A folk album in the charts? I'd better start taking more water with it.

Right I'm off to listen to a couple of hours of massed melodeons to get my perspective back.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 10:03 AM

The Dubliners were popular and had a chart hit. The Spinners were popular and had tv series... I liked them and think of them as folk.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 10:09 AM

As I've suggested here, an English "folk hero" (Theleveller) would surely use the medium of his/her OWN folk culture, rather than employ American pop/rock techniques. It's a case of going-pop to be popular.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 10:12 AM

Jon, of course you recognised them as 'folk' - they wore Aran sweaters. Unmistakeable!

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,stonker
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 10:13 AM

Hi GUEST,Jon..

guess by that 'criteria' you probably have high regard for

Val Doonican as a bona fide Folk Hero !!!???

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 10:15 AM

For what it's worth I agree with the Leveller. Given that most of what gets marketed as folk in the mainstream is gloopy singer-songwriter stuff that's only a shade away from poor old Jimmy Blunt, seeing Seth in the top ten is a bit alright.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 10:20 AM

Can't say I assosciated those groups with Aran sweaters.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 10:24 AM

As it happens I did like Val Doonican but I'm not sure about "folk hero"... btw, if I have one of those, it's Barney McKenna.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 10:25 AM

"Val Doonican as a bona fide Folk Hero !!!???"

Absolutely! I came to folk music via Val Doonican and Jim Reeves, so who knows how many many Seth will pull in.

To Jon and WAV, just let me say: horses wear blinkers to keep them looking ahead so they go on plodding along the same straight furrow instead of realising there's a whole, wide, beautiful and exciting world out there.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 10:30 AM

Poor horses.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 10:31 AM

"btw, if I have one of those, it's Barney McKenna"

Barney McKenna? But he's a banjo player - what has that got to do with folk music, or music at all, for that matter?

Sorry! Only joking! BTW it wasn't me who called Seth a Folk Hero, it's how he's described on his TV commercial and I thought it was rather amusing.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,The Bastard Son Of Marty Feldman
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 10:47 AM

"So have all the other people in the charts, haven't they?"

Not really Greg. It's all complete hype and the chart has been bent since its inception. No matter, it's great to see Seth flying the flag. I remember seeing him with Sean and Seth donkey's years ago at the old Easter Festival at London's Barbican. He/they were awesome then.

Jon wrote "If what he turns out bore a resemblance to anything I'd recognise as folk music, I might be joining the celebrating." - YAWN!

Let's rejoice. Somebody out there is promoting OUR music. I, for one, am delighted about that!

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: the button
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 10:50 AM

I think it would save space on the forums if we had one compendium thread: -

"Vaguely successful folk artists: slag them off here!"

*sigh*

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,baz parkes
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 11:03 AM

"Vaguely succesful folk artists: slag them off here"

Great idea button...but shouldn't we add "young" to really hit the mark..:-)?

baz

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: the button
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 11:09 AM

If the internet had been around in 1904, no doubt there would have been threads slagging off Joseph Taylor for the release of Brigg Fair on a commercial record label. :-)

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 11:12 AM

As I noted above, it simply doesn't work out.

I for one have enjoyed very successful folk artists.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 11:13 AM

I quite (well, nearly) like his stuff, and he seems a pleasant young fellow, - but as I said elsewhere I am less keen on the fact that I find the melodies of the folk songs he does do (eg "The Setting of the Sun") unrecognisable. I am probably less than half convinnced that it is "folk" but I had no difficulty recognising most of the output of Steeleye Span, and some Fairport Convention as Folk, and even some of Bluehorses as nearly folk (well, OK, I think they do do a folk song or two).

I have nothing against Folk Rock. Indeed I like it. But I'm not so sure that Seth Lakeman qualifies more than occasionally. Nonetheless I am looking forward with a mixture of anticipation and foreboding to hearing the album, and I'll make up my mind whether I like THIS album, when I hear it.

There is no reason in the world why you can't rock 1954 definition folk.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Mr Happy
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 11:20 AM

All sounds very jolly - maybe too cheery to be folk?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RnSI9JaHjvs

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 11:26 AM

"would surely use the medium of his/her OWN folk culture, "

But he does! He just does it in the way he understands it. If he introduces what you see as outside influences then he's just doing what folk musicians have always done. And if you think that ain't so then where do think the polka and german came from? Or the fiddle or flute?

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 11:26 AM

You're absolutely right, Mr Happy.

So here's some better news. This week several dozen folk albums will be launched to complete media apathy and destined for almost total obscurity.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 11:29 AM

I looked up a video of Seth Lakeman singing a song, something about a Lady in a Lake. What he is doing is performing a folk-like song in a rock-type production.

Notice the emphasis on his beautiful physique (brings in the young female fans). The opening shot of his violin shows an instrument with clots of something on it - fungus, maybe. (It's probably not what he really plays.) Then there are his cheap, worn clothes - clothes that say 'I'm not cleaning up for the likes of YOU!'

It seemed a little odd when he put the violin down and the violin music kept playing.

Like many a pop music video, it flips madly from scene to scene. I guess this is what pop fans have come to expect. As for me, I quit watching halfway through. I don't put up with that.

As for his voice, it's pretty good. He can carry a tune. I've heard other young male voices which are virtually identical to it, however. I couldn't understand many of the words he sang, which is another reason I lost interest. I do suspect that if he sings in that tight, emotional style for long, he will start having problems with his larynx.

However, if he teaches fans that it is all right to watch an act which does not include electronic instruments & a lot of fancy lights etc, and if they learn that a singer does not have to destroy his voice with harsh screaming, then his act is a very good thing.

I wish him well.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: KeithofChester
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 11:44 AM

"All sounds very jolly - maybe too cheery to be folk?"

No they're NOT ALL cheerful. Try this sinister little number, one of three co-writes with Steve Knightley on the album.

I'll Haunt You

The whole album is here. Relentless (EMI) gave the BBC exclusive streaming rights.

Poor Man's Heaven

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: quokka
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 11:46 AM

To the button: if the internet had been around in 1904, June 16, James Joyce might have had a very different life...lol...

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Mr Happy
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 11:56 AM

...........Ulysses par exemple!!

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 12:01 PM

It's been my experience tht many members of the so-called 'folk community' always seemed to and seems to have a problem with the success of various musicians. I say, good on ya Seth and keep the music coming, regardless.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 12:09 PM

Why can people not hold an opinion of their own, why is it necessary to contradict them vehemently when they don't agree with your points of view?
I don't like Seth Lakeman, what difference does that make to you, or to him. ZILCH.
GROW UP!

G

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 12:42 PM

It is quite extraordinary, the number of seemingly rational people(from the top British folk journalists down) who apparently feel everyone, as a social duty to folk music, ought to like Seth Lakeman, and also ought to believe his music is folk music.Why? Why ought anybody pretend to like something they don't like? Why should anybody pretend to think something is folk music if they don't?
OK, I think everyone should like Peter Pears. And everyone should recognise that the music he makes is folk music.Does that make sense? Of course it doesn't. Never heard anything so silly in my life.
Personally, I think it is great that the Arctic Monkeys get records in the charts. What does this prove? That I like the Arctic Monkeys. So what?
If our Jon likes the Dubliners, and doesn't like Seth Lakeman, how can this be a problem?

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 12:44 PM

..as I mentioned on at least one of last years

" Seth is 'brilliant/shite' " threads..


his CD "Kitty Jay" reminds me a bit of the feel of "Led Zep 3",
which was quite a considerable influence on me when I was about 14
and starting to muck about with guitars with my schoolmates..

I find "Kitty Jay" a very enjoyable 21st Century folkrock album.

I particularly enjoyed his live promo TV performances for that CD..
especially his solo sessions in a fiels somewhere;
just him and his voice and violin, stomping out the rythm
with hefty clomping raw enthusiasm.

The mrs bought his next CD "Freedom Fields", both versions.
I thought that one was a touch too oriented towards MOR pop-rock market.
But at least the less refined earlier 'indie' kitchen studio version appeals better to me,
than the 2nd corporate lable big studio money remake.

So right now I aint got a clue what the new CD sounds like.
Daresay the wife will buy it soon enough,
she thinks he's ace.
She also preferes the overproduced studio version of "Freedom Fields".

Personally, he's the kind of artist I'd be very inclined to
seek out any bootlegs,
of lo-fi home demos and garage/shed rehearsals..

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 12:46 PM

It's not a problem for me, I don't like The Dubliners, but that's my opinion.Personally I'm neither here nor there about Seth Lakeman and the rest of the west country folk mafia, all I was stating was my personal experience with other people.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 12:54 PM

West coutry basket weavers, aren't they the "raffia"?

I'll get my coat.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 12:58 PM

Has he done something brave?

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 01:00 PM

I am always happy when a musician with folk roots or a folk influenced history gets well-deserved attention on the ol' airwaves.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 01:00 PM

The man is from a folk music-playing family,writes in a modern folk music style, on acoustic instruments, about the area where he is from-why on Earth isn't it folk music? What the hell else is it?
Why are some of you people so narrow minded about this? Honestly, why and how do you think to define him out of "your" chosen arena simply because you don't like what he does? What precious, horrible arrogance. And some of you have clearly never heard him, only heard of him, the fact that you have being enough to condemn him!
I went to see John Tams and Barry Coope at Glastonbury this year, and they played a set of what I would consider to be soft acoustic pop on synthesiser and guitar. It isn't what I like, really. Some people consider John Tams to be a folk hero, likewise people like Show of Hands, who again, I would say are pop or soft rock singers. But it isn't up to me. As far as they are concerned this is their interpretation of this genre and they place themselves within it because they feel an affinity to it. In a lot of ways they keep the scene and my job going, so fair enough, as far as I care what people wish to do outside of the mainstream is folk music if it isn't traditional.
The folk scene should surely be about supporting independence from the mainstream; it so happens that success can spring from that. So do we abandon people the minute that happens? Leave them for cultural dead? To be a folksinger must inevitably mean to be unable to make a living? Why?
Some guy on this board the other day said he wouldn't consider what I do most of the time to be English traditional music "in a thousand years". Twenty years, is all I say in response. Fifteen of those specialising in English traditional music, studying, evangelising, practising, in a way that I thought would benefit the scene that raised me. Not to mention the family...
I'm not saying that Seth has any sort of ambition beyond making his music and making a living out of it. But he is one of our's, and he is not harming us beyond creating opportunities for us to harm ourselves like doomed stereotypes in forums like this. Like the music or leave it, but you shouldn't confuse personal taste with righteousness of purpose. If you don't like the diversity of the folk scene maybe it is that that isn't for you. Maybe you're not a folkie either.
I don't think I am any more. Most folk music on the scene leaves me cold, but I don't presume to dictate what others should be doing any more. Traditional music is something else, will survive, that's what I care about.
I'm sorry this isn't written very well. But I find these kind of prejudices infuriating.
x e

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 01:03 PM

Here here and amen.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 01:07 PM

"Traditional music is something else, will survive, that's what I care about.
I'm sorry this isn't written very well."

Are you kidding me? That was eloquence personified.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 01:13 PM

PS

Eliza, I love your music.