BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Feb 13 - 11:51 PM

I checked them and some other sources....not sure as of yet...you got something from CBS?..post link..I'll look.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Feb 13 - 05:43 AM

Lessons for Bill McKibben's Followers
Perils of the Keystone XL Pipeline Confront Obama
by RALPH NADER


Article here.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Feb 13 - 06:07 AM

Say NO to XL

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 11:43 AM

999, I went to your link....did you notice the first article, BEFORE the pipeline article?????...Kissinger blocking access to his papers??
Duhh...I wonder why...(well not really)...They would reveal EXACTLY what I posted about the deal he made with Saudi Arabia about the bonds and oil.....(see my post further back)...The 'environmental' issue is just a diversion, from the real deal.....and you heard it first on Mudcat!

Bobert, Given the track record of both CBS and Bob Woodward, I think I'd go with Woodward. Bob wrote the story for the NYT...along with others you might be interested in....check out his reporting on Obama and the 'sequestration'...it might be an eye opener!

..but then. I'm sure everybody is 'wrong' ..except those who 'report' only what you might be inclined to believe....according to the party line's talking points!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 05:12 PM

I donno what's wrong with Bob Woodward, GfinS, but he has developed a bad case of COMS (cranky old man syndrome)...

Go to WaPo and read the stuff there on him...

Hey, we all know that Obama is a private guy... He don't wine and dine folks... He likes his quiet evenings and spends most of them reading... Does this sound like a guy who is inviting donors into his home at night???

Woodward has lost it... He just has...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 07:13 PM

State Department has no objections (news report today).
Now get on with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 11:50 PM

State Department doesn't have any scientists on staff...

Bad move all around...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 03:06 AM

Bobert: "Woodward has lost it... He just has..."

Why??...Because he said the king is wearing no clothes??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 03:08 AM

I think the Republicans thought the same thing....about the time of Watergate.
Democrats turn!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 08:12 AM

State Department approves XL.   I am underwhelmed.   Let's think here, people; State Department focus is on keeping good relations with as many foreign states as possible, not predicting possible environmental disasters.    And as Bobert has noted, State is not where scientific expertise lies.

Further, I have heard that cameras were put in some of the pipelines already laid--and these cameras saw the sky through the pipeline. Not good, to say the least. I'm checking on the source of this story.

Yes, there will be refining jobs.   But some people along the route of XL have already lost their livelihoods through losing their land by eminent domain. And I understand that some Indians in Canada already have a higher incidence of cancer to problems caused by proximity to the oil sands projects.   Is this so?

And anybody counting on jobs due to XL should realize that the construction jobs are temporary--and will overwhelmingly disappear when XL is completed. While the environmental damage caused by laying the line is permanent.

As Bobert also noted, not one drop of this oil will go to the US unless we outbid China etc.   It's all oil for the world market--despite the fact that it's Canadian and US territory which is being ripped up for XL.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 08:14 AM

"due to problems caused"

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 08:28 AM

Here's the one piece of algebra that doesn't work for Keystone supporters and for which they have zero answers...

Keystone risk for USA = 100%

Keystone rewards for the USA = 0%

When the drill-baby-drill crown get around to solving that equation then let me know... Right now, they are just trying to shove it down our throats...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 03:54 PM

Enough of "America is the center of the fucking universe" bullshit. Canada stands to lose as much. It is not all about the USA as much as you may think it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 03:57 PM

BTW, WTF is the EPA doing other than sitting on its ASS and harassing small business people?

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 04:57 PM

It ain't about the US being the center of the universe, Brucie...

Let's reverse roles here... Let's say that it was the United States who had all this tar sand and it wanted to build a pipeline thru Canada and over your aquifer to a port where China would take delivery???

You'd think it mighty arrogant of the United States thinking that it could come thru your country with a certainty of many, many leaks which did nothing more for Canada than provide a few thousand temporary jobs and lease money for the property owners over which this thing was built...

As for our EPA, it has been strangled by the Republicans over the last 8 years... I have two close friends, one of whom is well know at the Getaway, who have been very pissed at just how the right wing has stopped them from doing their jobs... And keep in mind, the folks at C-PAC at 100% behind shutting the EPA down entirely...l

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: pdq
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 05:53 PM

"...to a port where China would take delivery???


Port Arthur, Texas, is on the Gulf of Mexico so there is clear sailing to the Atlantic Ocean.

China is on the northwestern side of the Pacific Ocean.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 05:59 PM

Then tell your congress and president you don't want the pipeline. One way or other, the pipeline will be built. I'd rather it went straight to the west coast of Canada. The Chinese could buy it from there. And Canadians could hold it up longer than you will be able to. Your EPA is a joke, worldwide. It is no wonder your friends are pissed. They fucking well should be. The EPA has screwed small business and continues to do so. It now sleeps with BIG business. Environmental Protection Agency: three lies for the price of one.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 06:15 PM

If the EPA sucks, there is a good reason for it. Back in the days of Ronnie Reagan, "the Gipper" gutted the regulatory agencies by appointing industry flacks to the agencies instead of regulators. He did that with all of them, which is why the country is in the mess it's in.

Efforts to restore their effectiveness is chronically blocked by Congress.

It's commonly referred to as "putting the fox in charge of the chicken coop."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 08:26 PM

Yup, you might as well let the Koch brothers run it... It's messed up already... What more could they do???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 11:15 PM

I can't believe you guys don't get it! This shit was decided quite a while ago..and I've been turning you onto what it's about. To facilitate this Rockefeller assured Clinton the Presidency, is Clinton agreed to push through NAFTA..before Clinton was even running!...and voila, Canada and the U.S. were setting the stage. With it came a 60/40 trade import and export agreement with the two countries. The environmental stuff NEVER was a consideration!!..even when Carter put the expanded drilling ban into place. It's all about the trade agreement with Saudi Arabia...we buy their oil..they buy our bonds...and that is also the reason the Mideast is in warring turmoil. ...the region MUST be too screwed up to 'honor' the agreement...or should I say, it must be UN-stabilized..so we can drill here...and they are stuck with all those worthless bonds...by their 'no longer in place government'. We done 'em dirty...it was planned before Obama was president. It would have gone down, no matter who was elected. Only the duped dopes think there was any other way.
I've called this shit accurate, BEFORE IT HAPPENED, on quite a few subjects, for quite a while..you'd think by now, that you'd listen up. ...but NO-O-O-O-O-OOO, You've gotta still think stupidly along party lines....ain't that so, Bobert?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Mar 13 - 02:06 AM

Typo correction. This one is correct.

I can't believe you guys don't get it! This shit was decided quite a while ago..and I've been turning you onto what it's about. To facilitate this Rockefeller assured Clinton the Presidency, if Clinton agreed to push through NAFTA..before Clinton was even running!...and voila, Canada and the U.S. were setting the stage. With it came a 60/40 trade import and export agreement with the two countries. The environmental stuff NEVER was a consideration!!..even when Carter put the expanded drilling ban into place. It's all about the trade agreement with Saudi Arabia...we buy their oil..they buy our bonds...and that is also the reason the Mideast is in warring turmoil. ...the region MUST be too screwed up to 'honor' the agreement...or should I say, it must be UN-stabilized..so we can drill here...and they are stuck with all those worthless bonds...by their 'no longer in place government'. We done 'em dirty...it was planned before Obama was president. It would have gone down, no matter who was elected. Only the duped dopes think there was any other way.
I've called this shit accurate, BEFORE IT HAPPENED, on quite a few subjects, for quite a while..you'd think by now, that you'd listen up. ...but NO-O-O-O-O-OOO, You've gotta still think stupidly along party lines....ain't that so, Bobert?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Mar 13 - 07:31 AM

Well, GfinS, I don't doubt that with all the power that BIG OIL has that they won't get their stenking pipeline... I also don't doubt that with all the obstructionism that the Republicans will box Obama into either approving it with a few strings or approving it to get something in return from the Republicans but if this were to be voted on today in an up-and-down vote in the Senate that it would be a very close vote with the majority of the Dems voting "no" and every Republican voting "yes"...

Do you disagree???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 03 Mar 13 - 01:59 PM

PDQ and Bert,

We are not talking about any oil but the dirtiest of all, the tar sands.
Why transport that at all? The U.S. doesn't use it, it gets exported and the energy companies get rich. In the meantime, it if is the safest form of transport, we are in big trouble. It's not about shipping oil that is in US reserves. It's about transporting oil across the U.S. which is not safe at all regardless of the safety of other transport means.

If they don't build a pipeline, than tar sands oil will remain in the ground where it belongs. If you think that pipelines won't be compromised then you are truly naive and have bought the oil industry propaganda. I repeat, "game over!"

The pollution from exhaust pipes and chimneys are only a small portion of the problem unless you ignore what happened in the Gulf Coast. Don't think for a moment that this pipeline will be maintained without spillage. Safety controls have never really been in place by the major oil companies in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 03 Mar 13 - 02:19 PM

I deduce from the above that there is a chance some Mudcatters might possibly not approve of XL.

If my wild guess is correct, I hope said Mudcatters are doing more than just rambling on about it on Mudcat.

Those of us who oppose it should at least write pointed e-mails to our representatives--and to President Obama, emphasizing in no uncertain terms that we are his strongest supporters, we are bitterly disappointed in the stance of the government so far; this goes directly against why we worked for and re-elected him--and that if he cares about his legacy he should do all in his power to stop the northern portion of XL.    Otherwise part of his place in history will be that he OK'd a disastrous idea--when , not if, the leaks, spreading pollution, terrorist attacks, etc. come, he will be held to blame.

Jan and I will certainly be doing more than posting on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Mar 13 - 04:07 PM

Ron, I agree with you.

But some of us ARE writing to our representatives (e-mail and snail-mail), making phone calls, and signing petitions--and generally campaigning--in addition to making our views known here on Mudcat AND other forums (fora?).

Don't make the mistake of assuming that Mudcat is ALL everybody here does.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 03 Mar 13 - 10:44 PM

Glad to hear you are doing what needs to be done, Don.   My observation certainly wasn't aimed at you. But it seems there are some people here who spend a awful lot of time ranting--and there's no evidence they go beyond it.    Ranting here is unfortunately not the most effective approach to the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 09:03 AM

I've fired off more than a few letters myself...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 12:11 PM

Particularly those of us who supported Obama through either working for him, financial contributions, or both should make our views known.

Especially since, amazingly enough, the begging by the Democratic National Committee and other various groups supporting him continues.   Jan and I get begging e-mails and regular mailings from such groups virtually every day.

We make it clear what our conditions are for any more support.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 12:18 PM

I take it that those who oppose the pipeline support fracking and deep Gulf drilling.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 12:20 PM

No, Q, and your incendiary remarks make precisely no sense.   Congratulations.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 12:46 PM

Just pointing out the obvious alternatives, Ron. Ripping up the subsurface formations seems to be proceeding rapidly as an acceptable alternative.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: pdq
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 12:47 PM

Well, Barack Obama just nominated MIT scientist Ernest Moniz for Secretary of Energy.

The guy seems to be pro-fracking and pro-Nuclear.

Perhaps this is just another plot by those wascally WepubWiccans?

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 12:57 PM

I was going to put this on the joke thread, but it ain't funny.


"The fiscal cliff simplified

This puts things into a much better perspective.      
Lesson # 1:

* U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
* Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000
* New debt: $ 1,650,000,000,000
* National debt: $14,271,000,000,000
* Recent budget cuts: $ 38,500,000,000

Let's now remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a household budget:

* Annual family income: $21,700
* Money the family spent: $38,200
* New debt on the credit card: $16,500
* Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
* Total budget cuts so far: $38.50

Got It ?????

OK now,

Lesson # 2:   

Here's another way to look at the Debt Ceiling:

Let's say you come home from work and find
there has been a sewer backup in your neighborhood
and your home has sewage all the way up to your ceilings.

What do you think you should do,
raise the ceilings, or remove the shit? "

I rec'd that in an email and figured that along with the XL Pipeline folks would like to say something about this, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 01:01 PM

Some deep-sea drilling is necessary. But the precautions have to be better than BP's.    Or don't you agree, Q?

Fracking:    it's not at all clear the benefits outweigh the costs--especially since some costs last forever.      Areas that endorse fracking may well find that when the oil runs out, so will the oil firms--leaving behind a landscape forever changed--and possibly devastated. Or is that also just peachy with you, Q?   After all, you don't have to live there.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 01:04 PM

Some of you just plain don't get it!!!...This scam was decided more than 3 decades ago!! All the letter writing isn't going to do jack shit! Do you actually think your 'letters' are addressed to people who have the remotest inclination to represent YOU??
Sooner or later, you might get a clue...all you have to do, is forget about the lying speeches and party rhetoric...and watch it all unfold.
Shit, you'd think this was patently obvious, by now.....it has NOTHING to do with 'party politics'...NOTHING!!!! You're pissing up a rope! The delusion is, that the public is thinking that it's Democrats vs. Republicans. This shit was decided BEFORE even Clinton took office!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 01:07 PM

By the way...GREAT POST, 999!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 01:27 PM

GfS--go back to your Ludlum books, and please let the thinking people around here handle this.   But be sure to tell us when the sky is falling again. Your conspiracy theories are always a lot of fun--even if they might just have only a tenuous connection with reality.

Something tells me you didn't vote for Obama anyway--so your views are not likely to carry much weight compared with those of us who are still getting begging letters from the DNC, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 01:31 PM

It's amazing, thanks to the wild-eyed partisans on both sides--'drill, baby drill' on one hand and Leftist conspiracy theories on the other-- how easy it is to be a moderate around here.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 01:32 PM

Ron, go back to your delusions. The DNC and the RNC are both bought and paid for. Your 'hopes and changes' are just that.. you 'Hope' and go through 'Changes'!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: pdq
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 02:00 PM

Just a few days ago on our ABC affiliate radio station, we heard the "the State Department had dropped objections to the Keystone Pipeline".

They described it as "a 1700 mile oil pipeline taking tar sand oil from Alberta, Canada, to the Texas gulf".

They also said "there is no indication when construction will begin".

This is why the American people are essentially clueless about most important issues.

The pipeline is up and operationg all the way from Alberta to Cushing, Oklahoma and oil is being sent east to major refineries in central Illinois. Everyting is going just fine.

The last secrtion is about half complete and oil will reach the Port Arthur area by (est) September of this year.

We should be able to sue the Media for malpractice.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 02:19 PM

Q:   "I take it that those who oppose the pipeline support fracking and deep Gulf drilling."

Absolutely not!

I support the development of non-polluting alternative energy sources. And there are a LOT of them out there that damned few people are taking advantage of. And certainly not the entrenched power companies.

As a friend of mine once put it, "We'll have widespread use of solar energy when the power companies figure out how to run a sunbeam through a meter!"

Wind can be harnessed most easily via wind turbines, but there are other ways as well. There are several different ways the sun's energy output can be utilized. And we haven't even talked about tidal power yet. And how about the power that can be derived from the inexorable force of ocean currents? There are ways of tapping into these tremendous, and essentially free and ongoing energy sources.

There are a number of ways these things can provide non-polluting and virtually unlimited energy. Continuing to pollute our planet by burning fossil fuels is not only short-sighted and short-lived, it's economically unsustainable. Even if, for the time being, it IS profitable to certain people.

Fossil fuels are getting harder and more expensive to find (drilling in the arctic ocean or miles down in the Caribbean), and generally dirtier and dirtier (e.g., tar sands). And fracking pollutes ground water that people need for drinking and irrigation, and in some places it causes clusters of local earthquakes! What do we do when we've use all the fossil fuel up? I mean, there is not that much of it left. We've used up the easily accessible stuff.

Don Firth

P. S. And Goofball, my neighbor's yappy little Yorkshire terrier is out in her front yard barking its fool head off again. Why don't you join him? After all, you make almost as much sense as he does!

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 02:49 PM

You should join your Yorkshire, and take him for a walk....after all, you don't seem to have the ability to tell the truth...remember this recent post of yours?: "I will no longer engage this creature in discussion."
Is it lack of self control...or just that you have to compulsively make stuff up as you go along?..and spin the rest?
Don't bother replying....you'd only be making yourself more of a liar!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 02:49 PM

pdq states the current state of the pipelines succinctly.

The extensions for which permission is sought are more direct, more up-to-date and centralize control, but the current line has been operating for some time.
.
My post of 25 Feb. linked a map of the current extent of the line.

Note: PB has some of the best leases in the Gulf, of course including part of the great reserve on which their rig disaster occurred.
Look for them and their partners to re-open that reservoir within the year, or next year at the latest.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 03:05 PM

Goofball, perhaps you'll stoke up the family brain cell for a moment and note that I said the yappie Yorkie is not mine, it's my neighbors. And I'm not discussing anything with you.

Now, after that bit of static, back to our regular broadcast.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 04:01 PM

Guest ( Fugitive From Sanity)--"delusions" for you is dealing with political realities rather than pining for--of whining for--a Leftist neverland.

I'm afraid we don't speak the same language.    Though congratulations on not falling into the gutter-- lately.

At any rate, since your only language is MLJ (meaningless leftist jargon), and that's one I haven't mastered, I will leave you to your soliloquoy.


Enjoy.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 04:03 PM

"or whining for"

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 04:18 PM

Don Firth: "..And I'm not discussing anything with you."

Thank God!!! I don't eat shit, play with shit, stuff it in my ears...or read it!

Ron Davies: "...At any rate, since your only language is MLJ (meaningless leftist jargon)..."

Now I'm a 'leftist'?????
I think you and Don should argue about THAT one!..Leave me out of it!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 07:41 PM

Bottom line here is that we are being manipulated by BIG OIL todo some very stupid stuff so they can mnake BIG $$$...

Fracking and the Keystone pipeline are equally stupid...

We are surrounded my renewable energy and we are surrounded by obscene consumption...

Yet we are scampbling to get more fracking oil and gas???

Beam me up...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 07:52 PM

"obscene consumption"    Precisely.    There are even trivial wastes of energy, which, when multiplied coast to coast in the US, mount up to something.

Case in point:    Nobody, repeat, nobody, needs a leaf-blower--for anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Obama approve the XL pipeline?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 05 Mar 13 - 05:33 AM

Q. PDQ--

Some parts of XL are agreed to; some parts are not.    What a surprise that you would try to distort the picture and imply the whole thing is a done deal. It's not.

And it's fascinating that neither of you has told us how much you'd love to live in an area where there is fracking going on--I mean fracking that you can see from your houses.