WEIGHT discrimination in music world...

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 09:15 PM

If you are Denice... is your brother the denephew?

Until the clones begin to classify 60% of the shlock like this thead as BS (which it is) most music threads will continue to be lost.

Denice - I have posted more lyrics (200 plus) to more songs than you have entire posts. My pride and joy is the Rugby thread and in particular the Candy Man.

For a recent contribtuion check out the Dummy Train thread of last week.

Sincerely, Gargoyle

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: curmudgeon
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 09:49 PM

Gargoyle -- Your last post was very informative despite your proclivity to use html colors, and in the previous post to use all manner of html legerdemain.

Speaking of your previous post, your venemous diatribes do not suit one who, in my opinion, may actually have something meaningful to say   -- Tom

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: denise:^)
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 02:12 AM

I believe that this *began* as a music post--someone was concerned about being judged by appearances when performing, and others replied to confirm his/her belief or negate his/her fears--

and then others started posting to tell the ORIGINAL posters that they must be fat, lazy slobs...

I find that amusing, as I said, in this forum of many words and few pictures. The exact rotundity of the posters is neither here nor there--the idea was to determine if others had felt slighted because of their size. As it turns out--some have had bad experiences, some haven't. I have never seen anything in the folk music world to even hold a candle to the extreme 'appearance-consciousness' and weight-phobia of the pop music world!

I'm sure that everyone who has posted here is not extremely overweight--I know I'm not! However, you don't have to be morbidly obese to have people make rude comments...

I've found my local folk music & dance groups to be (as I mentioned!) quite open & friendly to everyone. We have singers & instrumentalists of all sizes--we have contra dancers of all sizes, as well. As in any group, I think that diversity only adds interest, so I'd say we're lucky to be the way we are.

BTW, JoiningSoon, did you join? Did you come back to read any of this? Did you get scared away when folks started accusing you of eating too much sugar and not exercising enough? I hope not...

Denise:^)

FYI, "G"--Lots of my posts are under "Guest,denise:^)" because I originally started posting on a computer while on vacation (not mine!)...and, then, too, some of them had a wink ;^) instead of a smile :^), so they'd be listed differently, too... Guess I'm a poster of many faces! --denise, with an "s"

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 09:56 AM

Thanks for the clarification - smile? OK

With two dots, a crack, and a slit, it was assumed to be female geitalia.

Guess what? Like you...Lots of my posts are under GUEST also.

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: GUEST,Claire
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 02:37 PM

Thanks Denise,

I felt exactly the same way as you when I read many of the postings on this thread. I tried to get it back on track by relating what I had actually experienced... hoping that others would share their stories too. However, the postings dove right back into the "responsibility for your weight issue". Good grief, we all have our personal take on this, and that is fine, but it has very little relation to the actual question posed by the original poster.

I value this list very much as a "virtual" community, but it has taken all my resolve to follow this thread. I keep reading it hoping that some experiences will be shared that will either prepare me for a future happening or make me feel in good company. Just hearing about peoples experiences can be useful. However, posts mainly focussing on bickering about weight issues should, in my oppinion, be moved to a thread entitled "bickering about why people are overweight".

I hope we didn't scare away the original poster.

Claire

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: GUEST,Don Sadler
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 09:45 AM

After a lifetime of drinking all the soda and eating all the cookies I wanted, I had to make changes to bring down high cholesterol and triglicerides last year. I mainly quit drinking sodas and eating processed cookies (I still miss my Oreos) and looked for other ways to cut down on sugar . I also adjusted my workout routine to include more cardio activity. In just two months, I lost 10 pounds (from 160 to 150), improved all my cholesterol numbers and reduced my body fat to 11.9%. I've never been overweight, so I had no idea what all the sugar was doing.

Don Sadler

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: GUEST,Rosie Hardman
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 10:58 AM

I should just like to add a little note to this thread. Make no mistake - my size was a big hindrence to my career (I once had a major London Agent say 'Terrific voice, wonderful songs, great guitar, super personality - but I'll never sell the image - how pathetic)... However, that is past history now and anyway I turned it to great advantage at times ;-) .... what IS interesting is this....

At nearly 60 I finally got to see a dietician that took a look at what I eat and who pronounced that in fact I eat a very healthy diet. The reason I am the size I am was that eating is NOT a priority with me and never has been. I will quite happily go without eating at all until the evening if I'm busy. Even then I eat the same size dinner as my husband (one course and a yoghurt or similar) - and he is stick thin. So the dietician diagnosed a slow metabolism in February and put me on a diet to boost this.

I HAVE to eat a bowl of cereal at breakfast, I HAVE to eat fruit mid-morning, I HAVE to have a sandwich or something similar at lunchtime, I have to eat fruit again mid afternoon... I have my usual dinner - then in the evening before I go to bed I HAVE to have another piece of fruit.

For the first month - nothing happened - so they decided to leave me for two months.... when I went back I had lost 7 KILOS. I went back recently for another check and had lost another 3 KILOS. I still eat the same type of food that I always ate but the weight is dropping off me.

So this idea that if you are very large you must eat junk food and a lot more than other folk is not always true.... and the stigma that programs like 'You Are What You Eat' create really makes my blood boil. The attitude of comedians and the sheer ignorance of the general public about the problems of obesity makes me want to murder some of them.

The insult that anyone is fat because they want to be - in a world that is so shallowly involved with 'image' and all the prejudice that it encourages - really shows how little the person concerned knows. It may be true in their case but it sure as heck isn't in mine. Nobody in their right MIND wants to suffer the rudeness of these ignoramusses day after day, or be crippled by the pain of obesity - or suffer the discrimination in the workplace - not just in music but everywhere, that results.

Hasn't the world actually progressed beyond this kind of ignorance? NO? How sad.

Rosie Hardman.
p.s. I may be retired but the fat lady just SANG.

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 11:39 AM

I'm afraid that you just can't get away from it on the folk scene - even in that fine song "Limehouse Reach" (words by Cicely Fox-Smith) weight-ism is mentioned:

For she's gone and married a lighter man - so it's time for me to go.

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: Red and White Rabbit
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:59 AM

Most people in the folk world have never known the slim me unless they saw the photos of me at my 49 3/4 birthday of me weighing 9 stone at nine months pregnant 12 years ago!
Gargoyle in many ways you are right about us wanting to be fat - some of us hide behind it - but sweeping statements dont cover all the problems people have with their battles with weight and diets and eating problems.
I am really grateful to the folk world for accepting me as a singer even though I am now clinically obese The support of my folk friends has given me the strength to battle the eating disorder I have had most of my life.
An ex fatty is almost as bad as an ex smoker - dont forget that all the excuses you once made and all the avoidance you did - all the dictates in the world wont change people unless they want to be changed and even if they do it is still a long hard battle that needs support not criticism

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: GUEST,Charmion at work
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 05:06 PM

I absolutely agree with Ms Hardman above; note that it was the agent, not her audiences, who objected to her rotund appearance, and the issue was "saleability", not entertainment value!

I have sung all my life, and through most of said life have also sported more upholstery than society considers optimal. For more than 30 years, I have observed that people who look over, around and through me before I start singing come hustling over to chat me up the minute I stop. And in my single days, an awful lot of men of all ages made strenuous efforts to get very friendly indeed. This experience has led me to the conclusion that, in combination with even a minimal dose of self-confidence, talent is the world's most powerful attractant.

Charmion

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 05:41 PM

Steve Parkes said, in part:

Remember "Goonies"? The fat kid was greedy, cowardly, unreliable, treacherous;

Ah, but what a lovable kid! Even the gangsters were taken with him! Wonder what ever happened to him.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 05:54 PM

Quoth Kim C:

Before I got married I dated a large man. Dave wasn't what I would call fat, really, but he was large. And devastatingly handsome.

Gee, I don't really remember dating you.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 03:38 AM

Carmion, there are lots of men who like -- for want of a better expression -- big girls. Even if they can't sing. If you could play the fiddle ot the piano, I'd ask you to marry me ... except you're already married. So am I, come to think of it ...

Steve

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 08:05 AM

Well sung, Rosie!!

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 08:41 AM

comment " If that belly was on a woman she'd be pregnant"
retort: " It was and she is!"


didn't Liza Carthy have some problems with a C.D. cover or promotional photos in the States because she was "overweight"

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: matai
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 08:47 AM

Ever since i have been attending folk festivals i feel like i've been mixing with real people. most are largish and the one or two skinny ones look oddly out of place. maybe more folkies could get work in the advertizing world and change the whole god-damned image that we're expected to live up to. being a musician makes people notice who you are, and those who look down on you for your size generally have considerable respect after they've heard you. we are certainly lucky to have these gifts (both size and musical talent)

matai

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 08:52 AM

Dave I'm sure your post about a "lighter Man" was toungue in cheek as I am sure you know that it is not referring to a man of lesser weight, but a man who worked the lighters(I believe barges of the area and era)

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 11:24 AM

I think Dave was having a little joke, O; anyway, I know for a fact he uses matches!

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: GUEST,a skinny folky
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 12:13 PM

in answer to the original question - no I haven't suffered discrimination for being overweight because by nature I'm pretty skinny.

But there's an opposite question - Has anyone ever been regarded warmly or treated as though you must be great musically because you are thin?
my answer - not to my knowledge. I don't think being thin a great advantage. Confidence and stage presence are what matters as a performer. Packaging and presentation matter in that they feed into confidence and stage presence but anyone can present themselves well, weight is only one aspect of what you look like.

and another opposite question - Has anyone ever been regarded coldly or treated as though you must be no good musically because you are thin?
my answer - yep. I've been told I ought to eat more (no ta, I've not got a massive appetite, I eat as much as I am comfortable with) and have to put up with a whole set of assumptions that 'everything's easy for you because you're thin' which frankly is rubbish and means I end up feeling I'm not getting credit for the hard work I put in, and am resented by people who in many other ways I am pretty close friends with.

My take on it - be healthy, be happy, be confident in what you can do and don't be lazy about anything, it's a waste of your talents. If people want to be small minded, they will be and you can't stop 'em. Put your effort into blowing them away with your performance and feel smug afterwards that you proved them wrong.

If you are overweight and feel discriminated against though, don't forget that plenty of other people suffer from discrimnation against problems that you don't have. Discrimination is, sadly, part of life - it's how you deal with it that counts. Don't let your appearance, fat or thin, rule your life - there is more to any performer than what they look like, and on the whole the folk world is a friendly place to be. Yes it suffers from the same pettiness as the rest of the world, but not as badly as plenty of other social circles.

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: GUEST,jcpie14
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 04:24 PM

i wanna become a singer. i sing in church all the time. in the shower too. but it can get annoying at school. sometimes my friends sing along with me. i love singing. i love dancing. i'm cute and i have a nice body. i'm 100%latina. i'm tall for a girl. i guess 5'5 is tall...anyways i had to write all this because i love music and i just hope to become a singer one day. my favorite song is brown eyes. and my e-mail and id for yahoo is [e-mail]. if u wanna say something or just talk to me go right ahead.

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: GUEST,Scouse (Cookie's gone walkabout)
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 04:43 PM

I well remember the day Rosie Hardman once told the Audience "If you don't shut up I'll come down ther and sit on you!! And no one ever told big Hamish he was FAT!!! Heavens forbid..it's what's inside that counts.. As Aye..Phil

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 23 Apr 17 - 02:25 PM

Charmion, ☞( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)☞ 


Gargoyle, your right, you are fat because you want to be fat. I will continue to lose.

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Apr 17 - 02:58 PM

no one ever told big Hamish he was FAT!!!

If you mean Hamish Imlach - he did, himself.

In the ten years since the last posts in this thread there has been a lot of research into what drives obesity. One hugely important factor is gut bacteria; drastic changes in gut flora (by antibiotics, changes in diet or poo transplants) can either cause or induce obesity. And one thing that now seems not to matter at all is how much physical exertion you do: NOBODY can burn off fat by exercise.

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: GUEST,a fat singer/songwriter
Date: 23 Apr 17 - 03:16 PM

When I sing blues or whatever, nobody minds that I'm fat.

When I sing the romantic/wistful folk and pop ballads that I can deliver with a powerful, wide-ranging voice, my vocal talents have a HUGE battle to win me applause - because I'm fat.

I'm 6'2" and in the neighborhood of 380 pounds - 27 stone for the UK folks.

I've always been large-framed; even at my physical peak, in my late teens and early twenties, when I played basketball, at 6'2" and 190-200 pounds, I still looked bigger than the scale indicated, toned physique and all.

Now that I've managed to survive a literal death-bed episode, I gained significant weight during and after my recovery from major surgery.

I am a far better singer now than I was when I was thin, and although I am not attributing it to my weight/size at all, I still believe that my musical abilities should be able to win the day over whether I look like a "sex symbol" SHOULD (feel the sarcasm there).

Right on, too, Jack, about the exercise myth. Ten miles or more on a treadmill as penance for the caloric content of ONE donut? The idea is ridiculous.

I think the reason that the real secrets to reaching and maintaining optimal weight and health (NOT necessarily thinness) have been obscured is because the profits from manufacturing and selling sugar-laden, processed crap food are too great.

The doctors and nutritionists, etc, who are doing and promoting real life-affirming, health-saving research are fighting against billionaires who own the industrial food conglomerates. Those are powerful enemies.

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: BobL
Date: 24 Apr 17 - 03:03 AM

Trouble is, any business that exploits human weakness is a guaranteed money-spinner - e.g. junk food, booze, gambling, armaments...

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: Thompson
Date: 24 Apr 17 - 04:22 AM

Funny, it used to be the trope that you had to have a bit of weight on to have a truly sweet voice - that was why the old opera singers were all full of figure. This idea seems to have gone out the window, though.

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 24 Apr 17 - 04:57 AM

I have been battling a weight problem all my life. When I was young I refused to eat at all, (rough childhood lets not go there) I was walking with a stick when aged 3. In my early years I put on loads of weight then when puberty started went back to not eating at all. I was seriously underweight and passed out on a London Bus. They all thought I was drunk and chucked me off. Later on I put on about 5 stone, and lost it again when my relationship went wrong, finally after marrying Mally, I began to face the childhood abuse and settled at about 17 stone. I am now 65 and still fighting to lose weight. I am 21 stone.
All that said, some barsteward walked up to me at a gig and announced 'Looking at you I wouldn't have thought you could play and sing like that' 'Really?' I replied 'How should I look?' he pondered for a minute then said ' Well not like that!' Surprisingly I didn't knock him out.
yours in peace
Nick

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 24 Apr 17 - 07:16 AM

The only soft thing I can see right now is the Heathen above.

Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
From: GUEST,Bassman
Date: 25 Apr 17 - 09:29 AM

I'm fat but I also object to talent-discrimination. There's no justice. Just because I was born without musical talent is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE not to pay me handsomely for appearing on stage or doing lucrative recording work.