BS: Anyone defend US gun law?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Janie
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 10:56 PM

Darlin' Dan, how about taking a deep breath. xo, Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 11:04 PM

Yup Janie I am putting my guns down now honey xx love but a martin Guitar is the best and I will not budge on that one d-28

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 11:07 PM

I suspect some of the people are forming opinions about guns in the US based on TV shows and films and haven't spent time here. It's not reality. Questioning is good; believing, not so much.

PFR, here's one review of "Blue Caprice" on rogerebert.com.

But I do think that when you base a story on life while removing or altering a lot of key details, you should fill the voids with images and ideas that are just as fascinating. "Blue Caprice" doesn't do that. Granted, it's fiction, so it's under no obligation to educate or enlighten us, but we should at least get a sense that it understands the people and story it's transforming into fiction, and that it has something to say. There are times where it's hard to say if the film is erring on the side of subtlety or just playing it artfilm-cool, so that you can't accuse it of failing to do things that it is, in fact, trying to do, and failing.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 11:20 PM

Dan, you don't have to do a house to house search....so you don't really need the Thompson.

you seem to be as nuts about guns as I am about guitars.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 11:40 PM

Big al no not really. I like shooting but fishing is my passion along with song writing. And I don't need a Thompson. My D28 martin is enough. My arsenal is because everyone dies and leaves them to me. The handguns I bought for target and competition

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 11:53 PM

I'm reminded of my mother saying that something or other was "as easy as shooting a duck in the chest" - we *think* she was reaching in a strange Hungarian way for "as easy as shooting fish in a barrel" but were too busy falling around on the floor laughing to ask.

Also misread the above post as "my 28h martini is enough" so I should really stop now.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 11:54 PM

28th, sorry

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 02:44 AM

Let's let this one go, Dan, because it isn't worth getting worked up about.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 02:54 AM

Fishing with guns is cheating...

I hear what you are saying about target fun Dan. It doesn't change my view.

When I left school, I joined the RAF although due to them wishing to tinker with apprenticeships, I left after three months. However, during my recruit training at RAF Swinderby, I got my marksman certificate with a 7.62 SLR. I know the "thrill." I remain appalled that the thrill of a target is replaced by the thrill of another human for those who take their hobby slightly more seriously.

A friend seems to spend most weekends at Bisley, the home of competitive bang bang here in The UK. Fair enough. He talks of his latest Italian guns, which wood makes the best stock, the pitch of the barrel rifling etc in the same way I am rattling on to everybody I know about my latest guitar, hand made to my specs.

The difference is between target sport and bearing arms. I am sad to note that you have no issue with the former.

I do.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 03:38 AM

Latter......

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 04:07 AM

poor old John Dillinger - he had to risk his life to raid a police armoury to get hold of a Thompson......nowadays it seems it could get the lot from a gun fair.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 04:16 AM

Anyone seen anything of Bunter lately? He started this, and then walked away.

Typical.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Stu
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 04:17 AM

"he simply made some of the points I have made in the past about America bashing"

It's not America bashing Bill, it's gun nut bashing. I'm sick of saying how much I love the US and it's people so feel free to form your own opinion of my intentions (hum?).

In truth, all many of the UK posters are doing is pointing out that life is better without the constant fear gun ownership causes. We know this, because we live in a society that, by common consent doesn't want guns on our streets. The guns that are on our streets are either in the hands of the filth or criminals. The coppers frequently make mistakes with guns and shoot the wrong person, and there is always a big discussion/official inquiry etc afterwards.

The guns in the hands of criminals tend to be used against each other. I know this as a relative is a DS with the Met and once worked on gun crime and it was gangs shooting each other, albeit not often.

It's worth getting a view from the outside, although I understand that any criticism of the the USA, however well-intentioned is seen as some sort of act of belligerence by some of the locals and causes the sort of ultra-defensive reaction seen on threads like this. That and fear.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 04:31 AM

Precisely, Stu. Couldn't agree more.

Unfortunately, on sensitive topics like this one, over-sensitive Americans seem to have an unfortunate tendency to bite the hands of those who are trying to be their friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 05:23 AM

Why bite when you can shoot from a safe distance?

Sorry.. Couldn't resist it.

Reminds me of The Simpsons where Ned Flanders complained that his wife was always underlining text in his bible and not her own copy. Homer said "it's a good job you don't have guns in your house."

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 11:37 AM

My apologies to all and sadly big al is right. You could get a Thompson at a gun show but not fully automatic. However the gun is too easy to make fully automatic. That is same for the Ar15 or ak47. We need to get rid of the gun show. The checks and balances don't apply at them and it is a big loophole for criminals

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Wesley S
Date: 27 Aug 14 - 10:11 PM

I'm surprised this story hasn't been posted before:



Arizona Shooting Range Instructor Killed by Girl With Uzi

BY HASANI GITTENS
A shooting range instructor in Arizona was accidentally shot and killed by a 9-year-old girl who was learning how to shoot an Uzi, authorities said on Tuesday.

Charles Vacca, 39, was teaching the girl how to use the automatic weapon on Monday morning at the Last Stop outdoor shooting range in White Hills, Arizona, when she pulled the trigger and the kickback caused the gun to lurch over her head, investigators said.

Vacca was hit by a stray bullet and airlifted to University Medical Center in Las Vegas, where he was pronounced dead late Monday. The girl was at the range with her parents at the time, but their names were not released.

Sam Scarmardo, the manager for the Last Stop's shooting range, told NBC News that "the established practice at most shooting ranges is 8 years old and up with parental supervision."

He said Vacca was a "great guy, with a great sense of humor" and called him "very conscientious and very professional."

Scarmardo said that the range has never had a similar incident in over a decade of being open — "not even a scratch."

"I just ask everybody to pray for Charlie, and pray for the client, she's going to have a hard time," said Scarmardo.

The Arizona Department of Public Safety referred inquiries to the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, which didn't return calls for comment.

Ronald Scott, a Phoenix-based firearms safety expert, said most instructors usually have their hands on guns when children are firing high-powered weapons. "You can't give a 9-year-old an Uzi and expect her to control it," Scott told the Associated Press.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Aug 14 - 11:19 PM

Couldn't reply sooner due to the crash

"It's not America bashing Bill, it's gun nut bashing..."

Perhaps that's what most of the people really think, but that's not what they post. I know, Stu that you in particular have clarified that you DO admire much about the US, but certain members have for years started threads of posted to them with phrases simply describing this country categorically as flawed in this way or that way.... and when it comes to gun laws, a casual reader would think that most Americans are either wild fanatics about owning guns or almost criminally complacent about tolerating them.
It may be that online time is so demanding that folks just can't be bothered to type longer explication of their complex views, and they just assume "everyone will know what we mean". I dunno....
   I have on occasion wondered about various quirks of the UK, but I try not to do so without context, my reasons, and my willingness to be educated. When it come to the maddening US gun laws...or lack thereof... all I usually read is "you crazy lot! What are you thinking?" I KNOW what the gun nuts are thinking..all 27 flavors of them, from pure collectors of antiques to rabid hoarders of guns & ammo. SOME of us are doing what we can in the face of this madness to educate, deflate ... and elect sane congressmen who will get us out of this.
In the meantime, please help by showing some sympathy and understanding of the historical & political dilemma we are in...


thank you in advance

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 03:29 AM

Yeah. I thought of this debate when I read that "the land of the free" were free and easy with giving a nine year old girl an Uzi to play with.

That's two more families grief stricken in the name of an unfortunate industry and it's shareholders.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 04:17 AM

Jeri, people are dying for real in the States because the gun lobby make the rest of us shut up, and I find that seriously wrong. Those of us who are good shots, who might have done it as a, well, I don't think it should qualify as a sport, but perhaps as a meditation, have had to give up because of the nutters, and that entitles us to a voice, to criticise the irresponsibly loose US mentality which keeps it that way. Yes, I have shot at Bisley too, I know the fascination and deny myself it.

Where I left this before the Cat outing, was asking OD to substantiate his authority. He wouldn't, which suggests he can't. I should out of courtesy, as I'll never ask someone to do something I can't do myself, this guy's a personal friend, I worked with him and a number of his colleagues, heck I paid their salary and pension, for twenty years - I can talk about him because he's become well documented with a chapter all to his little self in a major work on the Squadron. I wasn't one of them, but very close to them - and you never leave, even in retirement, they sought me out. My honorary rank is Colonel. I am, noduff, two degrees of remove from the US President and UK Prime Minister, I call someone and they call the bosses. I'm joining the Savile Club at the moment, spook central. A right dick, in other words.

Now, for all that OD has a reputation here, none the less it doesn't qualify him to dictate on weaponry from a position not perceptibly different from that of the parents whose poor kiddy just shot Vanna. My target is his ilk, not him specifically, but one has to start somewhere and he's responsible for more than a little claptrap on this subject here, which has its consequences.

Most guns are designed for adult hands and adult judgement, real accountability. That poor lassie had fired that Uzi in single-shot mode beforehand, until Vanna moved it to automatic. That to me was an accident not just waiting to happen, but inevitable, and still, still, even now, nothing's happening. Death by 9 year old, the hammer of the recoil of the entire magazine being loosed off in a fraction of a second needs big hands, big arms and a big body to control it. It's exactly the point I was making, that you must have correct protocols, and guns in the hands of kiddies are not correct protocols, they do not have the strength to be competent handlers of the weapons. The first weapon I fired was a .303 Lee Enfield No4 when I was 14, and that was only just in my control: as a single shot weapon, it was OK. There is no way a nine-year old female could control thirty-odd 9mm bullets, the recoil would have been double or triple her body weight, everyone around, the cameraman and her parents included, was at risk. We have been shown film in that context of kids as young as four pulling the trigger of weapons, admittedly held rather plus or minus by an adult, blasting live rounds in the general direction, one hopes, of the butts. But the way one of those guns was flopping around, some of the rounds must have missed the butts, and from that kind of assault weapon, might travel up to three miles (yes, I was taught how to design a rifle range, that was the safety zone behind the butts in the 1970s, I don't know if it's changed since). God help the neighbours and the local livestock.

That is a worked example of why the US protocols are incorrect, murderously so. If you must use guns, train with them under the orders of a qualified Range Officer working to strict discipline and routine, and not involved with the shooters. "With a magazine of five rounds, Load". Check all weapons are pointed downrange and under the control of the firers. "At the targets in front of you, five rounds, single shots, Fire." Try to count the bangs. "Cease fire, make safe." Check all weapons remain pointed down range. "Unload, open breeches." Working from the right hand endof the firing line, positively check each weapon is cleared, no bullets in the magazine or breech, weapon still pointed downrange. As each is cleared, the firer can make the gun safe, closing the breech block and applying the safety, and withdraw from the firing position without crossing in front of any weapon not yet made safe. Any untrained firer changing position other than minor adjustments to the grip causes an immediate "Cease fire".

Half the problem is that familiarity has bred abuse. You may be competent, until the other guy has proved it too, you must presume he is not. A trained man never minds the repetition and check, fail safe. Which is why the UK doesn't have guns, because that is safest.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 04:33 AM

Sorry, forgot to sign my last.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Stu
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 04:39 AM

Bill, I don't know what to say mate. If you want me to be uncritical of a society that sees it as acceptable that a 9 year old girl fires off a machine made for the sole purpose of killing other human beings then fine. Does the US consider itself above any criticism from the people it shares the planet with, making it's presence felt beyond it's borders in a million different ways, good and bad?

If UK catters say the gun situation looks bonkers it's because in a country where guns are very, very tightly restricted the whole thing does look bonkers. Everyone with a gun thinks they're the ones whole should have them for whatever reason (being trained, ex cop, ex forces or whatever). If you don't understand how insane this all appears as we read about another dead gun victim, then I just don't know.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 07:59 AM

Like the poor sound engineer in Omaha who discovered getting mixed up in police propaganda's not the wisest of moves. I know many here would think on occasion of shooting the sound engineer, but actually doing so is another thing entirely.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 08:57 AM

If UK catters say the gun situation looks bonkers it's because in a country where guns are very, very tightly restricted the whole thing does look bonkers.

This isn't just a UK perspective. There are lots of other countries with relatively loose legal controls on gun ownership where people don't make guns into objects of religious veneration in the way Americans do, and where nobody would ever think of telling anyone else they had an obligation to own one or to think about them all the time. The US is not unique in its gun legislation, but it is unique in its gun culture.

It doesn't make any sense to try to fight that culture by legislation. Nutters like olddude will kill anyone they perceive as trying to take their toys away. What does make sense is to spread the perception that gun culture is a sick aberration, and that owning a gun and obsessing about them means there's something wrong with you. So I welcome incidents like that twisted Uzi instructor getting his Darwin Award. Trying to pass a law against things like that happening is utopian stupidity and a complete waste of time; the more such events occur, the less credibility the gun culture will have. So we want MORE of them.

It needs to be seen as a decluttering issue. Americans need to start realizing they've got dangerous lumps of metal junk in their cupboards that they'd be better off without.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 08:58 AM

Rahere, you have OD categorized as an "ilk" because it's easy for you to lump him in with a bunch of people you don't like and dismiss him.

I'm quite sure he knows what he's talking about.
You, on the other hand, spend WAY too much time talking about yourself and your friends, and your stereotypes for me to believe you.

I can shoot, too. Neither that, nor the qualifications of a guy in the UK, has nothing to do with gun laws in the US. I figured Richard started the thread as an easy troll, so I suppose this "mine's bigger than yours" stuff is par for the course.

Out.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 09:03 AM

Looks like my point is made above by the dickswingers. The US police shoot people with their hands up - or with toy guns - because they want to be robocop.   Nutters want to keep their penis substitutes until they are taken from their cold dead hands. Pretend frontiersmen claim to need to hunt deer to survive. Wannabee Clint Eastwood film roles brag of their prowess.

Call that a civilisation?

I didn't need to say anything, Primitive Tribesman. They spilled their hatred and conceit all by themselves. Oh, as it happens, I have a marksman badge too.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Lighter
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 09:06 AM

> a 9 year old girl fires off a machine made for the sole purpose of killing other human beings then fine.

That was hardly the case, my friend. The girl was not trying to kill anyone, or practicing to kill anyone.

Which is obvious.

She is the victim of foolish, unthinking parents, an inept instructor (who paid with his life), and the stupid owners of the gun range who (it seems) allow 9-year-olds to shoot submachine guns that they can barely hold properly. TV News tells me this is not uncommon, though accidents are, luckily, extraordinarily rare.

We do need tougher laws, and Olddude is absolutely right about the damned gun-show loopholes, which (among other things) one of my state's senators has promised he will *never* interfere with. (Get this: he's being opposed by the Tea Party as "too liberal.")

But in the shooting-range case, the only necessary law would be a law against idiots. The tragedy was 100% preventable by people exercising reasonable caution and common sense (which most of us the US have plenty of, by the way).

What were the parents thinking? Are they able to pay for the extended counseling this poor girl will require? And how about the instructor's family? There are certainly possibilities for civil lawsuits in various directions.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 09:15 AM

All political arguements aside.
First and foremost, this killing by a 9 year old is a 'Health & Safety' in the workplace issue.

Sadly the instructor has payed for his, and his employers, negligence with his life.
This may also now become an insurance and expensive lawsuits issue..

Bullets and Burgers !!!???

If this was not already actually happening in the real world
it would be a near perfect imaginative construct for a satirical comic book & movie franchise.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 09:23 AM

No, she isn't the victim of bad parents or inept instructor. She is the victim of being born in a country that is not as advanced as many Western countries, a country where guns are a way of life.

We see it on our continent too where Eastern European countries have neither the will nor freedom from criminals funding politics to elevate the country to a more respectable position.

The millions of Americans who find gun culture abhorrent might do their community a good turn by standing up, being counted and see how many votes The NRA can deliver their congress members, senators and governors once apathy leaves for the coast.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 09:58 AM

I read yesterday that, although there are as many guns as people in the USA, those weapons are in the hands of 1 person in 4. So the brain-dead gun-nutters are outnumbered three to one FFS! So why in Dog's name aren't the 75% who dont have guns kicking the shit out of the 25% who do? (I'm speaking metaphorically there, BTW - I mean kicking the shit out of the gun-nutters by the ballot box and by marching on Congress and the White House).

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 10:29 AM

" If you want me to be uncritical of a society that ..."

Stu.... I'm not sure if you really, really read what I said. I am protesting against wholesale criticism of **a society as a whole**. I sit here and criticize the gun laws themselves, and by extension the mind set of individuals & groups who propagate them and defend the idiocy!
"politicians" are criticized in the same way, but there are honest, decent politicians who are trying to work within the system to mitigate the damage done by stupid, dishonest ones!
   I simply hate blanket statements which make no attempt to recognize this, or to do any creative thinking that might help! I have explained the Catch-22, circular logic our gun laws have us buried in.... what would you have us DO?


". Does the US consider itself above any criticism from the people it shares the planet with, ..."

See what I mean? The US doesn't "consider itself" at all. Individuals do... and sometimes groups do, as a collection in supposed agreement about some issue.
That sort of phrasing of your criticism makes those who basically agree with you on the crazy gun situation... like me... to be "guilty by association".

You may criticize a situation, or a policy, or an analysis, or a stupid piece of logic...etc, as long and clearly as you wish.... and I will join with you on most of it regarding guns.

Read Lighter's post above. He makes similar points to what I'm trying to say. "A law against idiots" would be nice.... but you see the problem. The idiots ensconced in congress would simply pass a law defining 'idiot' as anyone dumber than themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 10:46 AM

Bill you are right. Like gun show laws and lack of federal standards. Even so nothing can protect against the terminal stupid. Some drive drunk some take pills and some own firearms. Some all the above. There are those also who talk the talk and others who walked the walk with firearms. Oh spent five minutes in the army and know everything. But know nothing in reality. Now Richard how about a good ole troll religion thread

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 11:01 AM

There is an answer, Bill. Charge the parents with Murder 2 Manslaughter as they are responsible for their daughter and she killed someone with their full knowledge of what she was doing. Maybe that will dissuade anyone else from walking that route.
Being an idiot is natural. Not allowing for it in what you do is criminal.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 11:03 AM

I have no problem with that

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 11:19 AM

That may well be an answer to THAT particular incident... and a charge 'might' deter a few others from letting very young kids handle 'some' guns.... but I'd bet it would have little effect on those who firmly believe that their kids should 'learn about guns'. They would just agree that handling Uzis should wait a few years.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 11:31 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if the "Sons of Guns" and "American Guns" workshops
haven't already R&Ded and manufactured modified Uzi and AK-47 stocks and handgrips for primary school kids...???

I've probably missed those episodes....

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 11:51 AM

https://news.yahoo.com/american-police-departments-losing-tons-military-grade-weaponry-174620174.html

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 11:52 AM

....maybe ammo with smaller loads for less kickback....

Wouldn't surprise me, either,

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 11:52 AM

Punk they already have conversion kits to turn high power full automatic to. 22 cal. Red Jacket is awesome. But notice their clients. Mostly military and police. Nobody needs full auto. I shoot them with sheriff when I don't have to pay for the expensive ammo. Others are FFL license holders. Bill there is nothing wrong with teaching your kids to target shooting or hunt. I went hunting with dad at 8 and could shoot but only highly supervised . But with a kid and high power full auto.... Terminal stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 11:57 AM

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152688861644171&set=a.41417569170.48044.563084170&type=1&theater

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 11:57 AM

Even though reloading your own is a quarter the price it is still an expensive Hobby if you had the full auto license

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 12:01 PM

Still the thin end of the same wedge. We tried it in the UK, didn't work, so we're taking a complete time out from everything and maybe in a generation will look again. Hopefully by then the response will be well-deserved ridicule.
For those who say, "Oh, but we need it", exactly the same thing was said when it came to outlawing the short sword a couple of hundred years ago. Probably the same as when they outlawed the club a few thousand years back. But if you don't want to go there, keep bashing the rocks, guys.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 12:03 PM

And what kind of ass takes a nine years old to guns and burgers for full auto 30 cal fun. Charges of child abuse should be filed

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 12:12 PM

Seems to me the USA gun laws indulge too much freedom on the dangerously stupid and disturbed;
while UK gun laws are far too prohibitive for intelligent responsible mature adult citizens.

In my considered semi serious/semi facetious manner;
here is my idea..
which really should appeal to a tory government keen to see every public service organisation
paying it's way and turning over a profit one way or another...


UK Police and military firearms training ranges could be opened up to properly vetted paying customers
on designated weekends

Marketed as 'Guns Experience" packages; even sold through Amazon Local.

People from all walks of life could experience safe properly tutored hands on training
with a selection of popular weapons - as seen at cinemas and on TV.

The police and military, might even welcome the opportunity for PR
and potential recruitment...

... Yeah ok, it's the UK, it aint gonna happen....

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 12:35 PM

What sort of deranged country has a guns n burgers whatever in the first place?

Here's an idea. Stop seeing dangerous equipment as fun in the first place. Stop glorifying something that is at best a penis extension for inadequate rednecks and young disaffected results of society's failures and at worst the biggest scourge on any society.

I'm sure Hollywood could find something else to glorify. Bernard Wrigley once suggested picking your nose and flicking bogies at each other.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 01:04 PM

" the USA gun laws indulge too much freedom on the dangerously stupid and disturbed;
while UK gun laws are far too prohibitive for intelligent responsible mature adult citizens."

**err on the side of caution**

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 01:10 PM

Lol musket my booger is bigger

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Wesley S
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 01:11 PM

Just in case anyone wants to visit here's a link below. They have packages for bachelorette parties and extreme sniper adventures. What more could you ask for?


Bullets and Burgers

For some reason the recent death isn't mentioned. Fancy that.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 01:20 PM

Dan, I suggest you try looking up the words to Bernard's hilarious monologue, "Robin Hood and the bogey rolling contest."

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 01:29 PM

I'm sure Hollywood could find something else to glorify. Bernard Wrigley once suggested picking your nose and flicking bogies at each other.

Somebody once challenged Abraham Lincoln to a duel and asked him to choose his weapons. Lincoln said "cowpats at six paces" and that was the end of the challenge.