Critical discussion of Ewan MacColl's singing

Subject: RE: Critical discussion of Ewan MacColl's singing
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 May 20 - 03:58 AM

As regards his own songs, I have yet to hear them sung better than by the man himself.
when he sang narrative ballads he rarely let instrumental flights of fancy interrupt the flow and story of the song.
Bert understood this about accompaniment too

Subject: RE: Critical discussion of Ewan MacColl's singing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 May 20 - 05:56 AM

Back now after 24 hours of no Internet - one of the wonders of rural life in the West of Ireland
Keep up the good work Dick
Jim

Subject: RE: Critical discussion of Ewan MacColl's singing
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 May 20 - 03:16 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sseyUtOvetA very appropriate and touching

Subject: RE: Critical discussion of Ewan MacColl's singing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 May 20 - 03:28 AM

That's one of Ewan's few tunes that was used unchanged - he heard it sung by elderly women on a holiday in Sicily (we have the recording)

In my opinion, Ewan's best songs were those he made using recorded actuality taken from the people who were recorded for the radio ballads and media programmes
A batch of them from the unbroadcast film, 'The Irishmen', Peggy gave us when he died remain under-sung - all based on talking to Irish Navvies - the only one that made it out of the lot of them was 'Tunnel Tigers'
I began to learn them when I realised how they related to the stories my father used to tell about his life on the rods - a great way to relate to your songs
Jim

Subject: RE: Critical discussion of Ewan MacColl's singing
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 May 20 - 03:24 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLnvwPk7-u0
excellent song

Subject: RE: Critical discussion of Ewan MacColl's singing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 May 20 - 03:54 AM

"excellent song"
It is Dick, and it's no surprise that it's among the most popular of MacColls songs among The Travellers - we heard it sung in a few sessions we were in with them
The way it was used on the Radio Ballad, alternating the verses with talk by The Travellers, illustrates the point I has making of how Ewan used the speech of the people he wrote about to make his best songs
THIS IS AMONG MY FAVOURITES - I sing it whenever I get the opportunity now
The subject, Ben Bright, was a retired (sort of) Merchant seaman who was 'discovered' working as an escapologist's assistant on London Bridge
He had sailed under sail and worked as a 'Shellback' (a sailor who has no home ashore) for most of his working life
He was also a 'class conscious' humanitarian who jumped ship in the 'Hungry Thirties' and joined the 'Wobblies', (International Workers of the World') in California, working as a Trades Union Militant, along with T. Bone Slim and Elizabth Gurley Flynn, with the fruit pickers
How unusual this was among sailors at the time was illustrated by the somewhat cp-doffing Stan Hugill who described the I.W,W, as "The I won't workers"   
Hugill knew Ben and didn't think much of his activities
James Madison Carpenter recorded songs from Ben when he was in Swansea
Ewan and Peg had been recording songs from him for a month or so in North London, when they turned up at his 'digs' to find that he had taken a job as a deckhand on a ship bound for Australia - he was nearly 80 then
They got a last card from him a few months later - he was working on a coaster 'Down Under'   
The found out later that what had inspired Ben to go back to sea was when, he got into a blazing row with two 'City Gents' on a London bus, who were declaring loudly that the striking binmen should be "thrown in jail"
Someone well worth a song
Jim

Subject: RE: Critical discussion of Ewan MacColl's singing
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 May 20 - 01:29 AM

that is interesting,Hugill sounds like a reactionary.

Subject: RE: Critical discussion of Ewan MacColl's singing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 May 20 - 02:55 AM

He was a bit - didn't detract from his work on sea songs though - Shanties from the Seven Seas remains the most important descriptive work on the subject in my opinion and the much neglected 'Sailortown' carries a great deal of background information which I still find helpful for both singing and understanding them
The best of these people had weaknesses which some people use to undermine the important things they had to say - Ewan, Bert and 'Dear Cecil' are prime examples
Jim

Subject: RE: Critical discussion of Ewan MacColl's singing
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 04:45 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHPYnRT61ds ewan joined by bert

Subject: RE: Critical discussion of Ewan MacColl's singing
From: GUEST,Some bloke
Date: 04 Jun 20 - 11:57 AM

I'll say one thing about his actual singing.

You can tell from his voice whether he is smiling, frowning or in anger. He can sound kind, passionate or in narration. It's a skill worth having and he had it.

Subject: RE: Critical discussion of Ewan MacColl's singing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Jun 20 - 02:58 AM

"You can tell from his voice whether he is smiling, frowning or in anger"
No you can't - Ewan developed a technique to produce tones internally - part of what the Critics Group was about
Bert's 'smile' was a lazy short-cut of the type used by traditional singers in various parts of the world - immediately effective, but limited
Externally Ewan used the cupped hand to keep in tune and the back-to-front sitting position for relaxation - all these are variations of other techniques used elsewhere
Jim

Subject: RE: Critical discussion of Ewan MacColl's singing
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Jun 20 - 03:27 AM

I agree with SOME BLOKE

Subject: RE: Critical discussion of Ewan MacColl's singing
From: Phillip
Date: 05 Jun 20 - 03:46 AM

Perhaps that bloke meant figuratively?

Subject: RE: Critical discussion of Ewan MacColl's singing
From: GUEST,some bloke
Date: 05 Jun 20 - 05:27 AM

That bloke meant what he put. Jim Carroll just has to disagree with anything anyone who can occasionally be critical of MacColl puts out, even if said critic is pointing out an actual positive.

I say it again. His voice exuded the emotion of the sentence he was phrasing in song. He learned it as a playwright for voicing his actors and put it in his songs, even when he tried to be deadpan in delivery, his crafting of the words betrayed the emotion.

It's one of the nice things about his singing. He wasn't ever pitch perfect and could never have been a classical singer. His vocal range was limited. He was louder when singing low and quieter when singing high. (and yes, I have been sound engineer at two concerts of theirs,) but and this is a big but. I admire the passion and display of emotion in his voice.

It's a pity that Jim Carroll can't hear music. Saying it's just about the words is like admiring Constable for the grade of sable in his brushes.

Subject: RE: Critical discussion of Ewan MacColl's singing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Jun 20 - 08:35 AM

"Jim Carroll just has to disagree with anything anyone who can occasionally"
Rather that tsay why I agree why not concentrate on what I say Muskett ?
"He wasn't ever pitch perfect and could never have been a classical singer"
We have a very early recording of Ewan singing classically - a piece called, 'The Death of Hector' made for the BBC shortly after he joined them in the late thirties
He was good enough for it to have been broadcast
His vocal range was not limited - he made a great ob of 'The Flying Cloud' and 'The Sheffield Apprentice' without effort - both among the rangiest in the folk repertoire
I've never had a problem handling most songs I've tried (I have 300 songs on my list) - - I can no longer manage Ewan's version of 'Sheffield' so I've had to find another one
Flying Cloud was among my first big songs - five years ago I found I'd lost it so I worked on it using MacColl's voice exercises and got it back

If we ever get around to to discussing his work fully you might realise that rather than 'learning anything as a playwrite", he and Litlewood and later Newlove evolved their own technique based on Laban (sound production) and Stanislavski (a theatre technique where actors took their own experiences and emotions to inform the parts they performed rather than evolving a performance technique, which is the standard approach of formal acting
The technique can be found in an excellent little book by Stanislavsi, 'An Actor Prepares'

You're just snatching statements that you have no evidence for out of the air and getting things wuildly wrong - that's what makes arguing with you useful
Jim