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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Doug Saum Date: 08 Dec 10 - 04:10 PM The following information is gleaned from comments and research done by David Dodd (quoting Blair Jackson's GOING DOWN THE ROAD) in his THE COMPLETE ANNOTATED GRATEFUL DEAD LYRICS pp. 276-77. Iko is a slave song dervived from two chants into a call and response. In the late 18th century whites began to allow slaves one day a week "to strut their stuff and whoop it up in New Orleans' Congo Square while the gentry watched." This led to a competition between the various factions of singers and dancers which becomes the origin of the "tribes" which can still be seen in Mardi Gras parades. These competitions led to actual fighting till the 1890's when order was restored and the competition was confined to style, wit, costuming, etc. The lyrics of "Iko" show the vestiges of this change. "My spy boy," for example refers to one designated to alert his "tribe" when rival tribes get too close. Accd to Art Nevilee of the Neville Brothers "I think it's a case of where the pronunciation changed over generations. It was 'Iko' by the time it got to Cheif Jolly. It may have come from the word 'hike,' because that's what you do on Mardi Gras -- hike all over the city, trying to see all the masks and the different parades." The first recording of "Iko" (called "Jock-o-Mo") came from a young New Orleans singer named James "Sugar Boy" Crawford for Checker Records in 1954. Crawford says, ". . . to be honest, I didn't, and still don't have any idea what the words mean." Next version is the famous one by the Dixie Cups (1965). This was an afterthought at a recording session when Phil Spector heard the singers and percussion jamming through the tune, he turned on the tape recorder and captured the track. Dr. John (Mac Rebannack), The Nevilles, and Grateful Dead are keeping the song alive through their performances. So what does Jocko mo fee na nay mean? The exact translation is lost in time, but it was probably a mild insult in a disguised patois created so that observing whites could not understand it. Phil Lesh of Grateful Dead felt it meant "Kiss my ass." We may never know for sure. Doug Saum (P. S. My two cats are named Iko and Jokomo.) |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST Date: 05 Jan 11 - 04:59 AM Iko iko Ade is way older than fifty years it was made popluar by the Dixie Cups in the 1950's and 60's (who went to school with my mother). But Iko, Iko, Ade the Mardi Gras Indians been singing it for more than a century and it comes form the Youruba peoples of Nigeria West Africa who came to New Orleans as slaves and this song has been sung in New Orleans for almost two centuries! Iko meaning" Golden "and Ade meaning 'crown", their was a place called Congo Square in New Orleans were the Slaves where allowed to Dance and practice their customs as they would have in Africa! This explains the parculiar and very africa customs of the Afrcan Americans of NewOlreans including the seconlines, which are derivative of th Chica, Calinda, and Bamboula dances first brought form Africa. Its; not even Creole french or Native American in origin! The Mardi Gras Indians still sing Golden Crown which is an English derivative of the song you tube the Mardi Gras Indians and the Golden Crown! God Bless Peace. Shalom! Sincerely , Jason M.Le Beau |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Eaux the cajun name Date: 17 Feb 11 - 06:47 PM If you break it down phonetically, and rearrange it in French, it could be: (Jacques a mort fin annee), which could translate (in very slang French), to "John died at the end of the year", so there could be some merit in that. Good luck y'all! |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Kathy Date: 19 Feb 11 - 02:06 PM in French fit and fis are passe simple, and seen more in literature as a refined way of using the past tense. But it's not old French, it's written, formal French. And the mourir is conjugated with the verb etre...so would be Jacques est mort... Not sure about the origin of this whole thing...just wanted to weight in on some French comments. Please excuse the lack of accent marks. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Guest Date: 02 Mar 11 - 03:56 AM I heard that Jacoma finane(Chokma fin ane) means it's been a good year...which does make Callies dream seem really creepy... |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST Date: 02 Mar 11 - 04:12 AM The way I heard the story is: a man witnessed a standoff in an indian tribe and overheard the words "Iko","chokma", "unday", "fina", "ane" or something. The man(writer of Iko) wrote them as he thought they would be written. So it may not mean john! The translation I was told is something like: Talking 'bout hey now(hey now) hey now(hey now) Listen up in the back It's very nice to be back It's been a very good year If I were to make this rhyme: Talking 'bout.....hey now, Listen up in the rear! It's very nice to be back here, It's been a really good year! |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: Neil D Date: 30 Mar 11 - 10:50 PM Refresh |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Mikey Date: 23 May 11 - 03:52 PM After reading all below and listening to Dr. John's version, "John Canoe/Jacamo (the reputed notorious English Slave Trader w/a large boat/ship/canoe) is dead (pidgeon French for finane)! would be a celebratory exclamation. Still trying to figure out Iko Iko. Maybe it really is a Native American war cry. "Unday" has to be Sunday. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Mikey Date: 23 May 11 - 04:51 PM Checking my French-English Dictionnaire, "fin" can mean death, ne(w/accent)birth. Another word, "neant" (w/accented "e") means nothing, naught, annihilation, etc. All 1st year French students know that "a" is a broad prepostion meaning to, at, into, on, by, for..." depending on usage. "Fin a neant" could translate, even in modern French, to "death by annihilation." Alternative for the seminarians...Death and Birth (fin a ne) could refer to the Resurrection, if you are so inclined. Could the allusions to red garments in the discussion below and fire in the song could mean that the ship burned? Are there any historians of the slave trade out there? |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST Date: 24 Jun 11 - 08:44 PM It means kiss my ass...seriously that's what it means. If you don't like what the Big Chief say ya just Choko Mo feel no hey |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST Date: 26 Sep 11 - 04:50 AM its supposed to mean "i'm no one to be messed with" or "don't mess with me", or as i would put it "don't fuck with me!" |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GEST Date: 30 Jan 12 - 12:55 PM Jim Fidler performing 'Jacamo' live at Terra Nova National Park, Newfoundland, August 2009, with video courtesy of Lillian Fidler: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LD6RehyIRg |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,gUEST Date: 20 Apr 12 - 03:00 PM Check the Neville Brothers "Brother John/Iko Iko" Jacamo Finane Jacamo Finane Well if you don't like what the Big Chief say You just Jacamo finane Jacamo Finane Jacamo Finane Well if you don't like what the Big Chief say You just Jacamo finane Brother Brother Brother John is gone Well Brother Brother Brother John is gone |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Sydonai Date: 15 Jun 12 - 03:05 PM Don't over think it you morons! It means nothing at all! The words are chantings for guteral abstract impact and nothing else. The song is a compilation of chanting by drunk bayou mardi gras revelers and real music compiled by Sugar Boy Crawford in the early 60's. If you try and break down the chanting using latin, french or any other romantic language then your not only an idiot but you have WAY TOO MUCH TIME. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: michaelr Date: 15 Jun 12 - 03:19 PM Thanks for popping in here to set us straight, O Guest. Now fuck off. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 15 Jun 12 - 11:49 PM Michaelr - for shame. Looks like this thread has ambled along for a dozen years. Surely someone telling you you've spent too much time on it isn't to be dismissed? Take it in your stride. I'll have to read the whole thing now that it has come back up to the top. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,9er Date: 16 Jun 12 - 03:45 AM The last guest has misspelled guttural and the 'your' in the final sentence should be spelled you're because it is the contraction for 'you are'. While I am pleased the guest has such erudite views, I will draw attention to this: languages in English use capital letters at the beginning of them, so latin should be Latin and french should be French. Those and others like Romansh, Spanish and Portuguese are similarly treated. As a point of note, they are called Romance languages, not romantic languages, regardless what guest tells the sheep. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: michaelr Date: 17 Jun 12 - 02:02 AM Shame? I have none. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Turk Ducarre Date: 01 Jan 13 - 01:11 AM I lived in New Orleans for some years, and second-lined with plenty of Injun tribes. I'd listened to the Wild Tchoupitoulas records and sung along with the Grateful Dead for years before I headed to the City that Care Forgot. The main influence on what things "mean" in New Orleans is that it's not limited by the purely rational - it's poetry. Poetry is the most meaning in the least language. New Orleanians today are largely illiterate (truly: close to 50% cannot read nor write), and have usually been even less limited by literal definitions throughout three centuries and more. So many of the meanings in this thread are at least relevant, even some that are contradictory when confined within a 21st Century American public education. Especially the ones consistent with African and Italian roots: the recordings from Cosimo Matassa's 1940s and 1950s studios where Black culture was first recorded (and where I lived generations later) are more fingerprints from the scene. Of course everyone knows New Orleans is mixed up French, but it was Spanish for 34 years after and before the French ran it. Flirty double entendres, cunning secret codes, inside jokes especially about outsiders, conflations, resonances, repetition for its own sake, transcendent symbols: this is Nawlins. Among the second-liners - whether paraders, musicians, feathered Injuns, stumblebums or E. all of the above - "Jacomo fi na nay" was taken to mean "out of the way, fool": the operative meaning when a parade comes up the street you're standing in. But indeed its more literal meaning is in the song Brother John. "If you don't like what the Big Chief say / You just Jacomo fi na nay" = "You're just dead, fool". Same difference, as we Yankees say before they tame us in school. Mardi Gras parades were fun, central cultural drumbeats of one of the most mixed cultures in the world. They were also battlefields, with tribes shooting and cutting each other while fired up on song, liquor, vendettas and voodoo (and everything else within reach in that global port). "Out of the way fool" is just a modulation of "you're dead fool" when the tribe comes through. "Ah nah nay" probably is connected to "andante": "get to steppin'", again in a fuzzy association defined by the urgency of the street more than by a dictionary. Now, who knows what "handa wanda" means? |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,MariannSRegan Date: 03 Jan 13 - 09:36 AM If it's a bragging, boasting, in-your-face song, why couldn't "Jacomo fina ah na nay, Jacomo fina ne" mean something like "Brother John is NOT dead"? nay, ne. In other words, he'll always be around. You can't mess with him. Or the Big Chief. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Carl Ellis (Guest) Date: 03 Jan 13 - 01:16 PM Couple things I don't see mentioned above, (~pace~ Dave's Wife)tho they may well enough have no bearing - I remember my dad telling me (from his experience in the area during the large army manoeuvers in Louisiana around 1941), that there was then still enough high feeling between the Italian & Corsican immigrants and the Powers-That-Was that you could count on starting a riot by going to the right neighborhood and yelling "Who kill-a da Police?". Seems as if one interpretation might be a creolization of of something like "Giacomo fini" or "Giacomo fait fini", intended as a taunt & challenge, and referring back to the troubles at the beginning of last century, and meaning something like either "Nyah, nyah, Dago Jake is done for" or "Ha, Jake finished (whomever)". Also, any possibility of "Iko" being a variant/derivative of "Iku"? I have a set of "Tarot" cards modeled on the parallels with the Santerian Orishas, wherein "Death" is "Iku", apparently from Yoruba. "Death gonna get you" sounds like a good threat. My personal $.02 is that Yanne's derivation from Creole looks the most persuasive, but in the linguistic gumbo of N'awlinz, probably you could find a dozen different Indians who chanted it at different times and in different ways who would all swear it meant something different. Obviously "Kiss my ass" and "Eat my shorts" and "I'm gonna **** you up" are not the literal translations, but they look like it feels, as you might say. Form follows function, remember? |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Mike V Date: 22 Feb 13 - 12:17 PM From what Dr. John said on an episode of Night Music, "Iko" is a transliteration of "I go", and carries the meaning of "get out of my way", and tied with one of the guest posters interpretation of "Jacomo Fin Na Ne" as "I"m nobody to mess with" actually communicates a meaning that makes sense. What with the violent confrontations that took place in the culture of the Black Indian marches back in the day, a chant that boasts "Get outta our way, you do NOT want to mess with us!" is exactly the kind of macho posturing competing groups of drunken partiers trying to intimidate the other, or start a riot with each other, would make. I gotta say, with all due respect, what would "Jacomo gave life to our King, Jacomo made it happen" actually mean? From a Christian viewpoint including the Virgin Birth, Joseph didn't give life to Our King, since he wasn't actually Christ's father, so that wouldn't make sense from a religious standpoint. And while "Talking 'bout.....hey now, Listen up in the rear! It's very nice to be back here, It's been a really good year!" makes sense enough as a chanted statement, it seems a bit innocuous in the context of the violent confrontations mentioned above. I mean, "Hey, y'all in the back, listen up! It's good to be here again and it's been a good year, so let's beat the crap out of somebody, okay?" seems like a non-sequitur, doesn't it? Even if you separate the two chants Crawford combined to make "Jock-o-mo" into individual statements, they would carry the same sort of meaning. "Get out of my way!" and "Don't jack with me!" amount to pretty much the same statement. But even if I'm wrong, and one of those translations is literally correct, I don't think the actual meaning of "Iko iko on de, Jocomo fino wah na ne, Jocomo fin na ne" is gonna be found in a literal translation of the words themselves. I have a very strong suspicion that they carried a meaning attached to the culture they came out of, and I'm not sure I've seen it in any of the posts above this one. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,999 Date: 22 Feb 13 - 12:26 PM I don't know if the following has been linked to previously. If not here it is and if so here it is again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iko_Iko |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: Ukulele Lizzie Date: 11 May 13 - 09:51 AM @Yanne - Ian Cully I was wondering what the non-Engligh words meant and found: - your post above in this thread - your video on youTube - the extensive info from Mudcat @Azizi here Mudcat Iko Iko thread and in similar threads - and on Azizi's website Iko Iko text analysis on Cocojams - the Wikipedia Iko Iko article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iko_Iko - and much more besides but those references seem to cover most of the ground as they are referenced or copied and pasted elsewhere. It all makes fascinating reading and I have learned such a lot from what I thought would be a very simple quest! However, some things I have read are difficult to understand because they seem to contradict themselves. For example, a couple of statements in your post above. Firstly, and I have seen this repeated word for word elsewhere,
"the chant "Hey now! Hey now! Iko! Iko!" is entirely absent from Crawford's "Jock-o-mo" released in 1953. Why tell a journalist you copied down two chants and amalgamated them and then go to a recording studio and only sing one of the chants? You don't need to take my word for it. Go to www.deezer.com and type in 'Jockomo' in the search box and you'll hear Crawford's 1953 hit free of charge. There's no 'Iko! Iko!' in the lyrics. . . . Later in your post you say,
THE WHOLE VERSE The second statement seems to be the correct one, if this clip from the Sugar Boy Crawford version on YouTube is the original one that he recorded: Jock-a-Mo by Sugar Boy Crawford - "Talkin bout, 'Hey now! Hey now! Iko Iko . . " Is there an earlier recording by Sugar Boy Crawford that does not contain those lines? I could only hear a brief except from the song on the Deezer site that you cited - is that an earlier recording? If not . . . please can you help me to make sense of what seems to be a contradiction in your post above and in a similar post on this Mudcat topic: Iko, Iko - the real words and meaning ? My apologies if I am missing something really obvious here! Best wishes, Lizzie |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,J Gill Date: 19 Dec 15 - 11:29 AM it means "finally im free" interpreted many ways through the years. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Marty Shows Date: 29 Jul 24 - 02:55 AM Here's what I know, My grandmaw and your grandmaw sitting by the fire My grandmaw told your grandmaw Im gonna set your flag on fire. Iko, Iko, ___something________________ Giaccamo fin anee, which I think means Giaccamo finished his years or "he died" |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,threelegsoman Date: 29 Jul 24 - 12:06 PM Iko Iko James Crawford of “Sugar Boy and his Cane Cutters” D A My grandma and your grandma were sittin' by the fire A7 D My grandma told your grandma "I'm gonna set your flag on fire D A Talkin' 'bout, hey now (hey now) hey now (hey now), Iko, Iko, un-day A7 D Jock-a-mo fee-no ai na-né, jock-a-mo fee na-né Look at my king all dressed in red Iko, Iko, un-day I betcha five dollars he'll kill you dead, jock-a-mo fee na-né My flag boy and your flag boy were sittin' by the fire My flag boy told your flag boy "I'm gonna set your flag on fire" See that guy all dressed in green Iko, Iko, un-day He's not a man, he's a lovin' machine jock-a mo fee na-né |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: Nigel Parsons Date: 29 Jul 24 - 04:12 PM Hi, Nothing to add to the meaning of the song, just a link I noticed. Some comments above have given Jackomo, or Giacomo, as a jester. The best correlation I can think of is Danny Kaye in the film "The Court Jester" (1955) "I'm Giacomo, Giacomo, My fame before me rings. King of jesters, And jester of kings!" |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 29 Jul 24 - 06:26 PM The problem with all the theories is going to be the spellings, or rather the alphabets. Creole, Swahili, Yoruba &c are primarily spoken word languages. They don't have words as Mudcat would process them, just sounds. Not until any one given song or book was published anyway. But what the heck: Iko was modern Latin-Yoruba for both an 'official' griot and the shout, yell or cheer given. Something like a town crier and “Oyez, Oyez” or “Hear Ye! Hear Ye!” in English. But... hold your mouth a little different and it could mean a sneeze or a cough nowadays. That's Creole for ya! Giacomo & jesters: Probably nothing to do with nothing but… Italian circus performer Giacomo (Giacomino) Cireni (1884-1956,) was probably the most famous of the early 20th century. One of the first to popularize the huge, outsized clown shoes. |
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