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BS: Israel 0:England 0
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Subject: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: jimlad9 Date: 24 Mar 07 - 08:06 PM They have strangled the wrong bloody Coach!!!. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: alanabit Date: 24 Mar 07 - 08:35 PM Look on the bright side of it Jim. It may be worth not qualifying to shorten Steve McClaren's tenure. At any rate, until we shed the strange illusion that you can win international tournaments playing English football, it is unlikely England will ever be a football team of international standing! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Liz the Squeak Date: 24 Mar 07 - 08:41 PM Was it just the bits I saw or did the Israeli team spend a great deal of the match trying to bodysurf on the turf? Every time I looked, there was one spreadeagled on the grass. LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Mar 07 - 08:41 PM Meanwhile both Irish teams won... As did the Scots. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Declan Date: 24 Mar 07 - 09:40 PM Israel were basically the team that scuppered Ireland's chances of qualification for the 2006 World Cup. We had two draws with them, both of which should have been Irish wins. The days of minnows you can easily beat have gone in most cases, and Israel definitely don't fall into that category any longer (if they ever did). A draw away from home is not to be sneered at - I didn't see the game so I don't know what the overall performance was like. Ireland won today, but you wouldn't think so to talk to a lot of Irish soccer fans. Granted the Irish performance was far from satifactory. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: GUEST,Arnie Date: 25 Mar 07 - 01:23 AM What's the point of England getting into the Euro 2008 finals anyway? On present performance, we wouldn't get out of the group stage. How can a team of so much premiership talent fail to score so consistently when playing for England? McClaren must take the blame - is he a Scottish plant I wonder - the clue might be in the name. Sam Allardyce would certainly motivate this bunch with a few choice words. Get Stevie Gerrard back into central midfield for a start - that can't be rocket science! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Rasener Date: 25 Mar 07 - 02:52 AM I thought England were very very poor. McClaren is definately the wrong man for the job. he doesn't seem to have a clue what he is doing. Having said that, they will probably go on and win the competition LOL Come to think of it, do they still have a chance of getting through? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Little Hawk Date: 25 Mar 07 - 03:13 AM When the team from Liechtenstein takes the field, England and Israel will both be nothing but a quickly fading memory. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: jimlad9 Date: 25 Mar 07 - 04:32 AM Arnie Bugger off with your lets get Sam Allardyce,we need him here at the Reebok. As for McLaren,a Scottish plant.Well a Thistle is a Sottish plant..............Oh I get it Thistle,McClaren...pricks,I see where you are going mate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Big Al Whittle Date: 25 Mar 07 - 04:48 AM Yes the lads need a good coach - for a sing song in the back on the way home. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: jimlad9 Date: 25 Mar 07 - 05:13 AM England will do really well in Europe even if I have to write the song myself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Alan Day Date: 25 Mar 07 - 05:31 AM Let us get back to basics. "Now lads see those two white posts over there with the bar on top.The idea is to get the ball in there and stop the other team getting the ball in our one.Passing it too and fro across the pitch to a friend and then getting it back again does not win us the game". Al |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: autolycus Date: 25 Mar 07 - 05:58 AM On the one hand,England had a good record under Ericsson. On the other,is it in the """"""English"""""genes not to change for anybody? How much are English clubs succeeding by virtue of the non-English players? Ivor |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: alanabit Date: 25 Mar 07 - 06:42 AM The problem, as I see it, is the inexplicable tendency of players to hope the man on the ball will do something good, rather than to move into positions to give him passing options. Dribblers and ball players are all very well, but if the opposition knows what is coming, it does not surprise them. The other tactic, of thumping the ball optimistically thirty or forty yards upfield, is not a favourite in the Premier League, so it is baffling to see it from an international team. (Although the opposition never seem to mind it much). Seeing players of the calibre of Lampard and Gerrard constantly passing the ball sideways and backwards in international games is also not what the fans pay their money for. Why do so many of these players shrink a few inches when they pull on an England shirt? The imminent end of Steve McClaren's tenure is to be welcomed, but I would never underestimate the ability of the FA to find someone even worse! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Big Al Whittle Date: 25 Mar 07 - 07:06 AM How about this monkey who goes out and steals things? we could do with somebody smart like that on the job. And the right coach - always get on the right coach. that's important. Its a game of two halves. the monkey and the coach. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: guitar Date: 25 Mar 07 - 07:08 AM All these people that say that the manger is wrong, well if you are so good at picking a team then you do it, in other words put up or shut up. And that goes for any team sport |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: guitar Date: 25 Mar 07 - 07:28 AM I feel sorry that England drew at the football, better luck next time. Tom (A Scot) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: GUEST Date: 25 Mar 07 - 10:55 AM The fact is the England players are on such obscenely high money with their EPL clubs they would be mad to risk their livelihoods when not playing for their primary source of income. Then there is the presence of a very large number of non-English players of world class in these same clubs which must have some effect psychologically. I remember a time when three or four key players, all from one club, would provide the basis of the national team. Now it seems that players rarely even play in their usual club positions when selected for England. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: The Sandman Date: 25 Mar 07 - 11:57 AM Alan Day,precisely what is wrong with English Football. 1.most teams and players in the premiership are unable to pass the ball accurately,Possession of the ball is important to win games as well as eventually putting it in the net/ both the England and Ireland managers are crap,neither have acheived anything of note prior to their appointments,. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Rasener Date: 25 Mar 07 - 01:36 PM >>most teams and players in the premiership are unable to pass the ball accurately,Possession of the ball is important to win games as well as eventually putting it in the net<< I will second that Cap'n |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Arnie Date: 25 Mar 07 - 02:06 PM Jimlad9 - alright then, if you won't lend big Sam to England, can we borrow him at Leeds for a spell? Looks like we'll soon be changing places with Scunthorpe under the Bates/Wise school of management. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: ard mhacha Date: 25 Mar 07 - 02:39 PM Do any of you Manager bashers ever put the blame on a lot of over-rated players, simply they are not good enough, and England`s section is comprised of very poor teams, as for the two"Irelands", Scotland and Wales,to quote Fraser from Dad`s Army, sherrrrr rrrubish. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Rasener Date: 25 Mar 07 - 03:38 PM That as well Ard When I lived in Holland, I was lucky enough to see players who could pass , keep possession and the abilty to turn on a sixpence and score goals. I was lucky as I lived about a ten minute cycle ride from the old Ajax stadium. Did I see some players. Yes sir. Cruijff, Van Basten, Kieft, Tscheu La Ling, Rijkaard, Lerby, Jansen, Olsen, Arnesen, Bergkamp, Wouters, Muhren, Krol, Wouters. Blimey did I see some skilful players. I was spoilt. When I came back to England, I was stunned at the low standard of English players. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Big Al Whittle Date: 25 Mar 07 - 03:44 PM What d'you think - if we had a one team from all these islands - would that be a more formidable team? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Rasener Date: 25 Mar 07 - 03:48 PM No Al most of them are donkeys :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: autolycus Date: 25 Mar 07 - 04:20 PM i agree,guitar,about uis choosing the team or shutting up. 'Twas the supporters who chose Keegan as English manager,a terrible choice. When the supporters saw the error of their way,they called for him to go. So maybe the supporters aren't much cop. And I don't think the right manager is the panacea. Ivor |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: alanabit Date: 25 Mar 07 - 05:09 PM The Villan: If you saw all those players - and I saw most of them too - you almost certainly saw Ruud Gullet in his prime. I actually got to see Pele, Alcindu and Edu as well. I reckon that Ruud Gullet was the best player, whom I ever saw close up. He was also quite happy to be "invisible" if that was what his team needed. That is a pretty subjective statement of course. I was in the old Rhein Stadion in Düsseldorf, when England's honest triers were complacently swept aside by the Dutch in 1986. However, I would disagree about the skill levels of England players nowadays. Steve Gerrard will put his body in front of a full blast kick from anyone and actually get the ball under control. Michael Owen can take the ball from practically anywhere within reach of the arc of his body and send it goalwards in one movement. I do not think that it is skill, which the current players lack. This is essentially the same England team, which took Germany apart before the last World Cup. They would not have a prayer against Germany at the moment, of course. It is not skill that is missing though. It is more like confidence and intuition. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Rasener Date: 25 Mar 07 - 05:15 PM Alanabit Forgot about Ruud gullitt - yes i did. There are certain players I agree who are good enough, but a lot who aren't. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 Mar 07 - 08:24 PM And now they are up against Andorra on Wednesday... ..................................... "What's the point of England getting into the Euro 2008 finals anyway?" Pretty obviously because if they don't get in the BBC and ITV won't bother about broadcasting some pretty good matches involving other teams. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: alanabit Date: 26 Mar 07 - 02:05 AM The reason it is all so disappointing is that none of the other teams in England's group has three players, who would make the England team. The fact is, with that amount of talent available, we do expect better. I think these guys have skill levels a little above those of the Dave Watson and Emlyn Hughes type players of the seventies. Those guys really gave their best, but they never looked too special when the South Americans, or continentals took to the same pitch. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Liz the Squeak Date: 26 Mar 07 - 09:00 AM Is it now time to put professional footballers onto performance related pay? LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Rasener Date: 26 Mar 07 - 09:15 AM That is what the new managment at Aston Villa are planning to bring in. I hope they succeed.For too long players have been earning huge amounts of money and doing very little when they get on the field. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Den Date: 26 Mar 07 - 09:46 AM Good point Liz and about time that, that concept was introduced. I play indoor soccer for two hours every Friday night with a bunch of like-minded idiots. We all play in an over 35 league and our team comprises guys from all over the world. We usually adjourn to a local pub on Fridays after our session and invariably the conversation turns to all things soccer/football. We have discussed the England team once or twice and I believe the consenus tends to be that the English players for the most part can't cut it against their European counterparts and there are reasons for this. If you look at Gerard for example. Someone above has mentioned that he should play in the centre of midfield. He doesn't even make it in the centre a club level. Benitez has been playing him on the right side of midfield because Sissoko (French) and Alonzo (Spanish) do a much better job. Lampard plays in the centre for Chelsea but he has Makalele (French) covering his ass. So when he drifts forward as he does consistently the midfield compacts and Makalele bosses everything and if you watch most everything goes through Makalele. England do not have a playmaker in midfield, a position that is essential in the modern game. They haven't had one since Paul Scholes retired form the international scene. The one player who tends to shine in midfield, all be it as a defensive midfielder, is Hargreaves (Canadian). The English players tend to play better at club level because for the most part they play along side better foriegn players. Like the old addage goes, "its hard to soar with the eagles when you're surrounded by turkeys." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Rasener Date: 26 Mar 07 - 09:54 AM LOL >>its hard to soar with the eagles when you're surrounded by turkeys<< I like that but shouldn't it be donkeys not turkeys. Some good points there Den. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: GUEST Date: 26 Mar 07 - 01:20 PM Villan, You had the pleasure of seeing all of those Dutch masters, the true football fans idea of paradise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: ard mhacha Date: 26 Mar 07 - 01:22 PM Sorry Villan, back on the rails again, that was my post. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Rasener Date: 26 Mar 07 - 01:36 PM I was a bit lucky wasn't I Ard :-) Les |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: alanabit Date: 26 Mar 07 - 01:50 PM I saw the second generation of those Dutch masters caning England with complacent ease in Düsseldorf. As an England fan, I am not sure I would describe it as "pleasure", though I dare say ard mhacha would have enjoyed it! I also saw Johann Cryuff, then a Barcelona player, score a stunning goal at Villa Park. I must say that every time I see a rerun of the 1974 World Cup Final, it becomes more obvious that Holland are going to win easily. It is a wonder they never became world champions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Blindlemonsteve Date: 26 Mar 07 - 03:26 PM I have to put my ten penneth worth in. so here go´s....i am English, i dont expect the England team to win every game, i dont even care if they dont win tournaments. What i do care about is that the 11 players on the field represent my country with pride, do their very best, so even if they lose, they represent a victorious win for the opposition. as a nation we are known for gritting our teeth and digging in when the going gets tough.being cunning and clever. being able to adapt quickly to changing situations....all these qualities are not shown on the pitch, and i for one feel really let down by them. I watched the U.S.A and Australia in the last world cup, they put theyre shirts on with pride, went out and played to the best of theyre ability, winning wasnt the the golden goal, perfoming for your country was what was important,,, everything i never saw in an England performance.... sad thing is, maybe they are representing the way the people think and feel....maybe our wonderful island isnt worth the effort any more. I for one hope not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: ard mhacha Date: 26 Mar 07 - 05:15 PM It has sweet fa to do with patriotism, ability is the the key, a load of rubbish is poured forth about playing for the shirt, the only thing that the present day players are concerned with is money, nothing else. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Tootler Date: 26 Mar 07 - 07:16 PM You forget the other important factor, Ard. Football is a team game. You can have the most talented individuals in the world, but if they don't work as a team, they will not win in the long run. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Big Al Whittle Date: 26 Mar 07 - 07:22 PM Thats true Freddie Goodwin had Bob Latchford , Trevor Francis, Archie Gemmil, Kenny Burns playing for him in Birmingham City and they couldn't win. Brian Clough had them at Nottingham Forest and they couldn't lose. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: guitar Date: 27 Mar 07 - 05:06 AM at last someone agreed with me hooray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Den Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:18 AM Motivation certainly is a factor and there are/have been several managers over the years that have been able to motivate players extremely well. Steve McClaren doesn't appear to be one of them. But how do you motivate multi-millionaires? Players today are far too wealthy. There's something wrong when a player making 50,000 a week can sit on the bench week in and week out. That aside I think that the problem with the England team runs deeper than that. I have watched them play many times over the years and this current team ironically touted be the best side in years to my mind is the worst I've seen for some time. In games against so-called lesser teams there seems to be a nervyness about England, no cut and thrust. It seems like for many the ball is a hot potatoe just get rid of it. That way you don't get caught in position and be raked over the coals by the press next morning. As I said earlier there doesn't seem to be a midfield playmaker nor any sort of leadership figure on the field. Smaller countries don't fear England any more. Andorra must feel that they are in with a shot and who would have thoght that just a few years ago. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Mr Fox Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:27 AM I near widdled meself laffin' |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: ard mhacha Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:34 AM The local bookmakers are giving England at 2 to 1 on for a win by 3 goals or more, this should be money for lifting against the mountain-men. Any takers? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: guitar Date: 27 Mar 07 - 11:56 AM Come on Andorra, well some has to support them, I always support the underdog. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: GUEST,ib48 Date: 27 Mar 07 - 03:53 PM the country are getting a dose of what the boro fans had to suffer under Mcclown |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: GUEST,Cody Date: 27 Mar 07 - 04:01 PM Yaron Cohen is one of the biggest international stars in Israel. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: autolycus Date: 27 Mar 07 - 04:17 PM Is it in the "English" "genes" not to change for anybody? I. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 27 Mar 07 - 06:09 PM "Come on Andorra, well some has to support them, I always support the underdog." In that case, are you sure it is Andorra you should be supporting, guitar? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Rasener Date: 28 Mar 07 - 04:21 AM Top Gas-Guzzlers All in all 25 top footballers have BMW X5s and 23 own Range Rover Sports. Bottom of the table in the environmental league. Heres the link Terry, Rooney, Ferdinand, Gerrard, Neville Thats not the only thing they are bottom at. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: ard mhacha Date: 28 Mar 07 - 04:31 AM Apart from 1966 and 5 games at Wembley to win the win their one and only trophy, England have one of the poorest records in Europe. When all of the Leagues in England consisted of home grown players they still performed dismally, remember the star-studded England side embarrassed in the early rounds of the 1950 World Cup by the USA, as for their record in European Championships it is rock-bottom. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Big Al Whittle Date: 28 Mar 07 - 07:04 AM You're right - it went wrong a long time ago. In the land time forgot. When I was in my primary school, I saw Billy Wrights Wolves get thrashed by Barcelona, who were reckoned to be not quite as good as Real Madrid. They were just qualitatively different. The general consensus was that our blokes were jumping round in hobnail boots, like you bought off the market - whilst they had the sexy new 'continental' football boots. 'Continental style football boots' - I think you can still get them from the Anne Summers catalogue. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Rasener Date: 28 Mar 07 - 07:25 AM Billy Wright. Now there was a player.I hated him becuase he was so good and played for Wolves not the Villa. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: autolycus Date: 28 Mar 07 - 02:49 PM I. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: autolycus Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:28 PM I. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Rasener Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:29 PM Half an hour gone and its typical rubbish again. Andorra 0 England Lions 0 Won't get to see the rest of the match as I have decided not to watch and let my daughters watch Sky instead. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Rasener Date: 28 Mar 07 - 04:14 PM Ah wellmy daughters said I could have some more punishment and let me watch the second half. Was I surpised to see that it was 0 - at half time (not). Doesn't look - well it does as at 53 minutes Gerrard has scored. Oh my god, are they going to trounce Andorra now!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Rasener Date: 28 Mar 07 - 05:02 PM Thank goodness for Gerrard. 3 - 0 to England in the end, but England were still not convincing. Saved McC...... job, I suppose. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: ard mhacha Date: 28 Mar 07 - 05:11 PM The punters who backed England at 1-2, minus 3 goals were very fortunate, N Ireland was the best win of the night beating Sweden 2-1,and going top of their section, the R of Ireland were worthy winners against a poor Slovak side. I seen the last 15 minutes of England v Andorra, pathetic, all that could be said in their favour, the last minute goal which saved the punters hides. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: alanabit Date: 28 Mar 07 - 06:14 PM Good teams win when they play badly. Bad teams lose when they play well. As far as I am concerned, the worst thing about tonight's result is that it may help to keep McClaren in position for a little longer. If our newshounds had not been such intrusive ratbags, we could have had Scolari as manager. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: GUEST,Arnie at work Date: 29 Mar 07 - 07:49 AM Anyone know the truth about Lampard not being selected? I heard that it was due to a fractured wrist but the papers say that McClaren had decided to drop him but didn't have the bottle to say so and used the wrist problem as an excuse - what a way to manage! At least it gave Gerrard the chance to come inside and look how he responded (fortunately!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Rasener Date: 29 Mar 07 - 07:49 AM >>the worst thing about tonight's result is that it may help to keep McClaren in position for a little longer<< Not sure about that Alanabit. Seems like the whole country and press are after him. How much pressure can he take. No matter what anybody thinks, he has lost the respect, and i don't know how he can move forward with enthusiasm and ensure motivation from the players. IMHO he is boring and crap. Get rid of him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: GUEST Date: 29 Mar 07 - 08:18 AM It's no good moaning that McLaren never did anything as a club manager. When Erikson came, he had a good reputation from managing in the Italian league, but he still couldn't make any progress as England manager. It seems nobody can. It's a great shame Brian Clough never got to have a go, that would have been interesting. Martin O'Neill may be the best bet now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Rasener Date: 29 Mar 07 - 08:55 AM >>Martin O'Neill may be the best bet now. << No he won't be. He isn't leaving Villa me thinks. The last time we let our manager go, he finished up as a turnip head :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: guitar Date: 29 Mar 07 - 11:59 AM As a Scot, I'm glad that England won, however I'm sorry that Andorra lost along with Scotland however we were taken on the world champions. And I knew that Scotland was going to get beat anyway because Italy are a better side. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Big Al Whittle Date: 29 Mar 07 - 05:48 PM What is so bad about ths McClaren bloke? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 29 Mar 07 - 08:09 PM One way of looking at managers is that they are lucky mascots. And McClaren's problem is, he's not lucky. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: ard mhacha Date: 30 Mar 07 - 05:48 AM I forecast now that England will qualify, I had a look at their remaining fixtures and they will get enough points, their section consists of very poor teams, and they won`t lose any home fixtures. The Scots and the two Irish teams won`t qualify and poor old Wales are gone, my head is on the block, so remember I told you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Rasener Date: 30 Mar 07 - 09:41 AM I agree England will qualify, but it is the way that they are playing that upsets me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israel 0:England 0 From: Den Date: 30 Mar 07 - 10:59 AM What about the boys in green over here? |
