Why are folkies scruffy

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 01:08 PM

Okay, snappy dresser, I'm not in the UK, I'm in the US (West Coast, which, in itself may make a difference). So perhaps what you say is true for the UK.

But no matter where they are, I still think that people would be better off if they concentrated more on their music and spent less time worrying about their "image."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Bee
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 11:57 AM

Leeneia, from experience, age may solve the problem, and the oily skin and hair that has plagued you will turn out to be a positive, since dry skin and hair seems to be the rule once a person hits fifty. I've been careless of my skin all my life, worked outdoors a lot for many years, had relatively oily skin and hair. Now, in my mid-fifties, the hair is like dandelion fluff (and not in a good way) and the facial skin sucks moisturiser in at an alarming rate. If I don't now soak my face with cream after washing, it begins to look like dry salt flats!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: leeneia
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 11:17 AM

I was born to look scruffy. Oily skin and hair will do it every time. The skin on my face isn't pretty. I have never figured out a way to keep it from forming blackheads and coarse pores.

Recently I visited a dermatologist to have some suspicous-looking features on my face checked out (harmless, thank goodness.) I was in a room with four of them, all studying my unattractive facial skin and exclaiming "Your skin is so clean!"

Obviously the definition for scruffy varies between the man on the street and the expert.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 06:35 AM

Well the smartest folkie I have seen is RaggyTash at the First In Last out in Whitby last week.

He was smartly dressed with jacket and tie. Mind you he had just come from work. Didn't take long for the Jacket & tie to come off LOL :-)

Nice to have met you Nick & Christine.

Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,snappy dresser
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 03:21 AM

quote
". . . most folks dress to suit themselves and to be comfortable." Exactly so, Jacqui!
unquote

WRONG in the UK (I did and do stress), where there are just too many affecting a "folkie look" for it to be simply coincidence. Deny all you like, it won't change the facts.

quote
If GUEST,snappy dresser is referring to what I've posted when he (or she) says, "Postings about designer suits and ties are simply juvenile and defensive," because I mentioned that I often wear white shirt, tie (not designer—off the rack), grey slacks and blazer when I perform for certain groups, it's hardly "juvenile and defensive." Whenever I dress that way, it's because the audience is dressed similarly, and if it is at all "defensive," it's because I don't feel comfortable if everyone else is wearing suits and dresses and I'm clad in bib overalls or sweat shirt and jeans with a big rip in the knee (current fashion in some groups).
unquote

No, I wasn't referring to your post or your manner of dress. If you read the words carefully - like this

"Postings .................................. are juvenile and defensive"

- you may see what I mean. For the record, among many of similar ilk, the particular posting I singled out for maximum juvenility was

"I suspect our anonymous friend Peace and Shits has been involved in more than one folk festival, and may even have lost money running one.
Need to make money for the designer clothes don't we?
G."

from somebody who has been imploring people not to post to the thread, but has continued to do so himself.

quote
There are some who do affect a sort of 'folk uniform,' but I've noted that those who seem to be hung up on image might do a bit better if they spent less time on how they look and more time on how they sound.
unquote

Good, so we all agree then.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 11:40 AM

NAahhhhhhhhh - that's Colonel Sanders and the Pilsbury DoughBoy on Prozac!

LTS

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 11:16 PM

What the hell did they do to him in that beauty parlor, anyway!?? CLICKY.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 10:57 PM

Just imagine Burl Ives comin' outta the hairdressing salon...

- Chongo

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 10:55 PM

An orangutan with a permanent. Now there's a visual for you!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 10:52 PM

You think folkies are scruffy? Go to a low class gin joint and check out the orangutans. That's "scruffy".

- Chongo

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: jacqui.c
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 10:40 PM

Too true Don!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 06:48 PM

". . . most folks dress to suit themselves and to be comfortable." Exactly so, Jacqui!

If GUEST,snappy dresser is referring to what I've posted when he (or she) says, "Postings about designer suits and ties are simply juvenile and defensive," because I mentioned that I often wear white shirt, tie (not designer—off the rack), grey slacks and blazer when I perform for certain groups, it's hardly "juvenile and defensive." Whenever I dress that way, it's because the audience is dressed similarly, and if it is at all "defensive," it's because I don't feel comfortable if everyone else is wearing suits and dresses and I'm clad in bib overalls or sweat shirt and jeans with a big rip in the knee (current fashion in some groups).

There are some who do affect a sort of 'folk uniform,' but I've noted that those who seem to be hung up on image might do a bit better if they spent less time on how they look and more time on how they sound.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: John J
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 06:07 PM

I rather think you hit the nail on the head there Ed!

JJ

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 04:59 PM

Life's too short to spend any of it ironing

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: number 6
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 09:06 AM

"Look at Me, I'm Wonderful"

Look at me, I'm wondrful... shooby-dooby-wah...
I'm not a bit like you or you... I'm a super showbiz star...
mm... You all buy my records, so I'd like to say...
Some little old cliche...
like that of...
Hi, everybody, good evening, it's a privelege to be back in your country... uh...

Two minutes, Mr. Smith!

He's a super, greasy, glossy show-biz star.
In a black tuxedo he looks wunderbar.
He has a slight American accent.
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
And his body's so re-laxez.
He'll be with you in a few moments.

The big, black windows in his Yankee car...
Say he's a great, big, super, greasy, glossy, smarmy
show.... biz... star!

..... by Viv Stanshall


biLL

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: jacqui.c
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 07:48 AM

I'm really not sure what sessions chips and peas and snappy dresser are going to. I have had the good fortune to visit quite a number of folk clubs/sessions/singarounds in the last few years and have come across very few people dressed in the way that they suggest. There isn't a uniform - most folks dress to suit themselves and to be comfortable.

A lot of the events I've attended have been held in pubs and there tends to be a much lower standard of dress and 'bad diet and lack of exercise' amongst the non folkie locals from what I have seen. If you want to see scruffy, fashion victims and bad physical condition head to any popular shopping area on a Saturday afternoon, or to a football match or rock concert. I don't notice that those events drive people away because of the standard of dress and physical condition of those attending.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,snappy dresser
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 02:50 AM

It's simply a uniform. It's "look at me, I'm a folkie" and GUEST, peas & chips is right to start the thread. And all of the silly postings about designer suits and ties are simply juvenile and defensive. Not to mention the rantings of "Peace" who seems to think he/she speaks for the whole internet.

It's certainly not about what people can afford - if it was there wouldn't be so much sameness - uniformity - in the folkie uniform. And yes, it does look a bit ridiculously stereotyped (in the UK, may I add). It's the supposedly liberal, free thinkers actually kow-towing to the general nature of the "correct folkie image". There's nothing really wrong with that, but it really is a blatantly obvious fact and to try to deny it is just silly.

"And why do the women in particular have to look like they have not had a shave and a bath in the last year!"

- great line and (crudely generalising of course) largely true. However, I think GUEST Peas & Chips is being a bit dainty, as I would have referred to the obvious signs of bad diet and lack of exercise too.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: frogprince
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 09:39 AM

Of those people, in any of the countries we hear from, who play or sing folk music...what percentage of them earn enough at it to buy both food and soap? : )

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Slag
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 03:52 AM

Ooooooo, I wasn't going to look in on this one. I resisted it for as log as I could, then fool that I am, here I am!

Bruce, are you off your meds? Man, your getting down right crotchety in your old age! I love the way you decry the trolls and then post endlessly to their threads! Ah, well mea culpa too.

Why am I scruffy? I'm just a slob! And I can get away with it most of the time. About every two or three Sundays I'll trim my beard before church but not a whole lot more, unless it's a special occasion I can't avoid. I pretty much play and sing for myself. The neighbors like it that way. I do like folk music but truth be known I'd look the same whether I did or I didn't!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: jacqui.c
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:08 PM

Actually, at the folk club that I used to go to in the UK, it wasn't unknown for one or two of the mob, coming straight from work in the City, to be dressed in formal office garb. Didn't affect their abilty to make music though and I can't really remember anyone making an issue of the way they were dressed.

I saw more inverted snobbery on the college campus where I did my teaching course. The one day that I turned up wearing a dress and with my hair 'done' the Sociology tutor asked if I was getting work as a secretary.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: fat B****rd
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 03:02 AM

" I simply don't understand why they have to look as if they're on the dole" You mean folkies all wear trainers, "tracky" bottoms, t-shirts and hoodies !!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 03:28 PM

I said above that in coffeehouses, open mikes, and such—and at folk festivals—my usual garb was informal, consisting of slacks and shirt (clean), often wearing a turtleneck instead of a regular shirt, and that for concerts and some other performances I usually dressed a bit more upscale:   grey flannel slacks, navy blue blazer, white shirt and tie (hardly "scruffy"). I did fail to mention what is probably the most important aspect:   I dressed in a manner appropriate to the occasion and for the audience for whom I was singing.

In the coffeehouses and folk festivals, most people dressed informally. I did the same. At concerts and at performances for various groups (e.g., the Overlake Friends of the Library's annual banquet or a fund-raiser for the Washington State Museum of History and Industry) the men generally wore suits and the women wore dresses. That's when I usually wore the "grey bags and blazer" combination. In short, for whatever the event was, I dressed appropriately.

I recall at the Berkeley Folk Festivals in the 1960s, attendees dressed just about every which-a-way. But the performers, during their performances—Sam Hinton wore a suit and tie, Merritt Herring and Barry Olivier wore shirts and slacks, Mississippi John Hurt wore a suit and tie, John Lomax, Jr. wore a suit and tie, Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger were casually but nicely dressed, Joan Baez wore a blue skirt and white blouse. Normal clothes. Well groomed. Nothing out of the ordinary that said, "Hey! I'm a folkie!"

The New Lost City Ramblers wore plaid or denim shirts and bib overalls. But in addition to some fine country-style singing and string band playing, they clowned around a lot and cracked corny, "countrified" jokes. But they were essentially an "act."

Are you a singer of folk songs? Or are you an act?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:30 PM

dressed from head to foot in red, or the those that wear copies of old agriculural smocks or fish-gutter's slops? Somehow I can't see them turning up for work on a Monday rigged thus!

Well no, I won't turn up for work on Monday rigged thus - because I only work on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays.

I do possess a home made "agricultural" smock - indeed, I made what I believe to be the biggest smocked garment in the world, to fit an 18ft giant, but I don't wear it much, it gets in the way of the rotary digger. If it makes you feel any better, I will go to work tomorrow dressed entirely in red, whereupon I shall look like a mobile tomato. I'd wear it to the folk club if there was one nearby, but you'll have to settle for a rehearsal of Brahms German Requiem, OK?

LTS

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Bee
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:11 PM

"...someone I saw at Sidmouth who was dressed from head to foot in red, or the those that wear copies of old agriculural smocks or fish-gutter's slops..."

How about the guest I saw at Keltic Lodge in Cape Breton, circa 1969? He was a young man from Oklahoma, without a drop of Scottish ancestry ('not that there's anything wrong with that!'), wearing a bright scarlet plaid outfit, pants, jacket and tie, playing a matching set of bagpipes. Certainly not 'scruffy', but oh my dear!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:00 PM

This thread is still hanging on like a thread on clothes.

"Jacqui 'I don't think that I've ever met a true Folkie who judged another by the clothes that they wore' "

I think that many folkies do this all the time...sometimes in reverse. If you come into a folk performance wearing a three-piece suit, you will hear about it. Imagine your fave trad singer appearing "dressed to the nines".

"The inference is that I have judged people by the clothes they wear, tell me who hasn't. We ALL form opinions about people by the way they look. It's not until you know someone that the clothes are no longer important. My absolute best friends are folkies and some of them are down right scruffy. But not everyone is like that. I would like to turn more people on to folk music - not frighten them away!"

Joshua Bell has pretty much proven that how you look, what kind of environment you are in and all the trappings plays a tremendous role on how people hear music of any kind.
If you close your eyes and don't look at the performer, maybe then you can concentrate on the music. But if you see something that distracts you in any way, the music is not served.

And conversely, how a performer dresses usually enhances his/her relationship to an audience. Clothes often make the performer in that sense.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 11:27 AM

Unless, of course, they work on old farms, or in fish-processing plants ...

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 11:23 AM

Peas and Chips is absolutely right about the attention-seeking garb. How else would you explain someone I saw at Sidmouth who was dressed from head to foot in red, or the those that wear copies of old agriculural smocks or fish-gutter's slops? Somehow I can't see them turning up for work on a Monday rigged thus!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 11:13 AM

You've always had a way of making me feel all warm and fuzzy, and - well - scruffy ...

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,peas & chips
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 10:49 AM

no don't go - we would miss you

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 10:02 AM

Dear, sweet GUEST - you're forgetting to get dressed up in your Peas & Chips! What are we to think? It's enough to put me off this thread - wouldn't that be a shame?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 09:48 AM

but of course you are but not properly!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 09:42 AM

You guessed!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest peas & chips
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 09:40 AM

John you are obviousley not listening.......

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 09:31 AM

It's the music they come for, not the sartorial excellence of the audience or the performers. Methinks that if one was shallow enough to judge a folk festival by what the attendees or performers were wearing, then that particular festival would be all the better for your absence.
Giok

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest peas & chips
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 09:03 AM

Bee you could well be right!

Jacqui 'I don't think that I've ever met a true Folkie who judged another by the clothes that they wore'

The inference is that I have judged people by the clothes they wear, tell me who hasn't. We ALL form opinions about people by the way they look. It's not until you know someone that the clothes are no longer important. My absolute best friends are folkies and some of them are down right scruffy. But not everyone is like that. I would like to turn more people on to folk music - not frighten them away!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Bee
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 08:37 AM

It was a bet, I think: see if I can provoke the longest thread in Mudcat history on something as generally irrelevant to music as the clothing purportedly worn by fans. Harmless, if silly.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: jacqui.c
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 08:35 AM

True Folkies are about the MUSIC. True Folkies really do not follow fashion at all. True Folkies are actually tolerant enough to accept anyone who loves the music into the ranks. I don't think that I've ever met a true Folkie who judged another by the clothes that they wore. I know Folkies who always look as if they had stepped out the pages of a fashion magazine and I know Folkies who don't. The one thing that they all have in common is that they get together to make and listen to Folk Music.

Those who are more concerned about appearances than the music really should be finding a different interest and stay away from Folkies. That way they won't have to be concerned about being lumped in with all us strange people. I think that I can speak for all true Folkies here and say that we may be concerned about the small numbers of people interested in the music but really do not see why we should have to change our attitudes to encourage more people in, particularly those who consider what we look like to be more important than the music we make.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 08:23 AM

Why does one alleged folkie purposefully go out of her way to sound ridiculous? And say the sort of things that scream GIVE ME SOME ATTENTION? I was sooooo waiting for that comment but I stand by what I said!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 08:21 AM

I suspect our anonymous friend Peace and Shits has been involved in more than one folk festival, and may even have lost money running one.
Need to make money for the designer clothes don't we?
G.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 08:12 AM

I wear to festivals the same clothes as I wear to work (apart from the 2 rude and offensive Tshirts that I save for pissing off rude and offensive people), Most of my wardrobe was bought at festivals. The rest I make myself because as a short legged, round sort of person, it's very VERY difficult to get clothes that fit and are within my budget.

So if you want to see a short, round Civil Servant in rainbow shirt and homemade jeans, give me a ring at the Inland Revenue and I'll come and meet you for lunch. You're buying.

LTS

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 07:59 AM

200!! YAH BOO SUCKS!

LTS

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 07:51 AM

Why does one alleged folkie purposefully go out of her way to sound ridiculous? And say the sort of things that scream GIVE ME SOME ATTENTION?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest peas & chips
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 07:12 AM

When I said colourful I thought you would all realise that I meant bizarre - the sort of clothes that most people wouldn't normally be seen dead in except when at a folk festival. The sort of clothes that scream GIVE ME SOME ATTENTION. Why do lots of folkies purposefully go out of their way to look ridiculous? And then wonder why non folkies are not attracted to the music, festivals and folk clubs.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Scoville
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 03:44 PM

Actually, they can be washed out to the point of being faded and threadbare (and thus scruffy, though admittedly clean); they can be colorful as in having too many colors in one place (as opposed to being brightly-colored but with less variation) and could still be threadbare, stained, or patched, and thus scruffy. Those terms are independent traits.

Not that it matters.



And now I'm off to work on that orange calico flapper dress I've been planning for the last month, and anyone who is offended because I'm too colorful clearly doesn't have enough to do with herself.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 06:34 PM

"I want to know why folkies are scruffy."

Sounds like a word used by upscale snobs. Scruffy has a pejorative meaning.


" Those tatty, washed out, far too big, 'colourful' clothes do no favours for anyone."

The clothes referred to here are not specific enough to identify anyone. If they are "washed out" then they are clean and not "scruffy". If they are "colourful" or here in the States, "colorful" then they can't be scruffy can they?

"Non folkies just think we look ridiculous and I also think a large proportion of folkies look ridiculous as well!"

All of the traditional folk singers who stem from a particular sub-culture that I've seen are clean, tasteful and mindful of how they look. The statement makes a judgement as to how "non folkies" see people and I don't know who these "non-folkies" are.

" Yes, I can here you say 'clothes are not important it the person that counts' and I agree to a point. but do we really have too look like we a living on the streets....."

Many buskers that I have seen on the streets don't look bad. Many have interesting clothes and present an image that will engender tips.

"After all most folkies are well off professional people!"

This statement is patently false and unprovable because it's a rank generality.
Such as all (fill-in-the-blank)_people are (fill-in-the-blank). Prejudice. Xenophopia?

"I simply don't understand why they have too look like they are on the dole."

I don't follow who "they" are. Again, this statement baits the people here on Mudcat, (me too). What a waste of time for all of us, and I apologize to everyone here for being so gullible as to try to respond.

I propose an alternative question. Why aren't folkies more scruffy?

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,tolerance
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 08:11 PM

I got my haircut today as I said I would. Decided to go all the way. Drove over to Sears and ourfitted myself with a smart pair of Haggar slacks, and a nice buttoned down shirt, an Arnold Palmer windbreaker. Chucked my boots, replacing them with a pair of Bostonian slipons.

No way am I gonna be labeled a scruffy folkie anymore. Now way man.

It didn't stop there. I went over to HMV and bought a Michael Bolton cd. Listened to it on the drive home. Whooooeeee, can that cat sing!

Speaking of Bolton. Specifically the other Bolton, that is the John R. Bolton. I think he is a scruffy folkie. Look at that walrus mustache, rather longish hair and those wire rimmed glasses. Damn it it, he is a scuffy folkie. Never feel ya could trust that guy.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 06:58 PM

I've never met anyone who looked fucking smart. There's something about fucking that just rumples a shirt, if I remember correctly.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 05:22 PM

Oh, for pete's sake, Peace, live up to your name or get a life. It's just an internet forum, for heaven's sake - and British folkies as a rule do look fucking scruffy. That's why many of us who do like and play the music actually feel embarrassed about owning up to such to 'normal' people.
It's sometimes a tad cringemaking, realising that you share a passion with so many dysfunctional soap-dodgers...
(Hmm, this trolling malarky is quite fun!)

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: stallion
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 03:52 PM

Volvo 121 1963 495069 miles to be precise

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: stallion
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 03:43 PM

I can't be arsed to read the thread but I know that my two mates Prof Ron and Fiddler Martin (aka Top Tup and Tawd Tup)would take issue with the "scruffy" tag, to Ron casual is a short sleeved shirt, neatly pressed of course, Martin is fairly similiar, as for myself, I look scruffy suited n booted (Paul Smith!) I think it might have a lot to do with their not being much money plying ones trade, sleeping in the back of a volvo estate with 200k+ miles on the clock has not been unknown ( quiz- find the the folk performer who owns a volvo [still running!,that is the car!] with one of highest mileage recorded for a volvo estate?)