Teaching band members original songs

Subject: Teaching band members original songs
From: ex-pat
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 11:36 PM

I am curious to know how fellow Mudcatters set about teaching fellow band members your original songs.
One of my friends (and band members)reads music and writes wonderful harmonies but cannot "feel" the music when I write the chords above the lyrics....the rest of the band have no problem.
Love to know what YOU do...

Subject: RE: Teaching band members original songs
From: Skivee
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 02:34 PM

Discuss what feeling you want for you song, then see if he gets it.
As your composition and arrangement, you are allowed to set the tone, right. Maybe he's not used to thinkng in the genre that you're writing for. I just played some American tunes after doing Irish and English for years. I went to the wrong chords more often than not.

Subject: RE: Teaching band members original songs
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 07:04 AM

get them to record it into their mobile phones, go home and learn it.

sal

Subject: RE: Teaching band members original songs
From: GUEST,Band leader
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 07:18 AM

Find someone else who can play by ear. Its the only way. If you give them written chords they'll have them on the floor for the rest of their lives. And never use dots for folk. They rot the soul.

Subject: RE: Teaching band members original songs
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 08:26 AM

Show them. And be prepared for the argument about "Wouldn't this bit be better like....."

Several times, with my late wife, that devolved to "Look, this one I wrote, and we play this bit like this or not at all".

Subject: RE: Teaching band members original songs
From: Vixen
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 08:50 AM

I have been blessed with a husband who a) has infinitely more musical talent than I do, and b) can somehow intuit what I am incapable of creating and actually produce it on an instrument. Consequently, my short answer to the question is: give it to Reynaud and let him take care of it.

Example 1: I came up with lyrics and a melody...the lyrics were nice, but I couldn't figure out how to sing the melody--it was either too high or too low. And I couldn't come up with chords to fit the melody. I literally plunked out, note-by-slow-note the melody on the guitar, while saying the words. Reynaud came up with chords, and determined that the reason I couldn't figure out how to sing the song was that its range was larger than mine...he's arranged it as a duet, with him singing the verses, and me singing the chorus. In one of the bands he plays in, he has the bass player sing the lead, because the song really fits his voice.

Example 2: I had a dream where Reynaud, a friend of ours, and I were playing a really cool tune. When I woke up, I remembered the tune, but in the dream I was playing it on whistle, and I couldn't reproduce it on whistle (I don't play whistle in real life as well as I play it in my dreams...). Again, I plunked out on the guitar, note-by-slow-note, the tune, recording it into my little microcassette. (what I love about guitar and piano is they have *all* the notes, even though I really can't play either one very well.) I left the recorder on the table with a note for Reynaud, and by the time I got home from work he had mastered it on concertina (though he was playing fiddle in my dream...)and had worked out the chords for me play rhythm.

Needless to say, he's the one who teaches our originals to other band members.

V

Subject: RE: Teaching band members original songs
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 09:27 AM

It's tough sometimes! Since I write all the original songs, it's my problem to teach them to the others. Sometimes I just sing along with the one singing lead, over and over and over and over until they get the melody right. I write up the lyrics and chords on a "lead sheet" so everyone can follow along during the learning stage.

Then the issue is feel. I use the phrase "consider the content" frequently to encourage some interpretation. I try to stay out of phrasing suggestions, unless a particular approach really bothers me and doesn't fit my intention for the song.

Harmony is a different problem. One member of the band is less able to find harmonies than the others, so sometimes we just give him the melody on the chorus while we jump in with harmonies above and below. That seems to work well, since the melody is heard most frequently and is easiest to learn.

Sometimes I pout and stomp out of the room...

At some point, and what is most difficult for me, I have to stand back and let the song evolve into what the group creates of it. Most of the time, it is better than I ever imagined.

Subject: RE: Teaching band members original songs
From: Tootler
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 06:10 PM

never use dots for folk. They rot the soul.

Complete and utter nonsense!!!

Why is it that whenever there is a thread on learning tunes, someone posts rubbish like this? Being able to read and play from music is extremely useful. I learn most of my tunes from musical notation, though my aim is usually to discard the notation eventually. It is also very useful as a reminder when you forget - something I do far too often these days.

Subject: RE: Teaching band members original songs
From: LukeKellylives (Chris)
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 06:13 PM

Don't teach it to them. Make them come up with something. It's not fun to have five instruments doing chords and a fiddle doing the same melody as the vocals. Get some original work from your band members. The best melodies are ones created on the spot......Usually.

Subject: RE: Teaching band members original songs
From: Grab
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 07:28 PM

Depends on (a) how tied to a particular vision of the song you are, and (b) how complex it is. If it's three chords and the truth, an arrangement will likely evolve if you play and sing, and they make their own bits up. If it's got some wild and wacky chord changes and abrupt changes of pace, that won't work though, and you've probably got your own vision of it anyway. In which case, a quick demo recording of your arrangement is needed.

We're not talking huge quality here, and Audacity and a PC mic are plenty good enough for the job. Click track of the right sort of length, then record a rhythm track to hold it down whilst playing back the click track. Then any other essential tracks (maybe a lead guitar) whilst playing back the rhythm and click track. Then fill in vocals. This might seem OTT, but it'll give you something your band members can stick on a CD or MP3 player and listen to.

The other advantage of doing that is that although you might think you have the arrangement all planned out, in practise once you're putting it together yourself, you can try out other ways of doing it yourself and get it nailed.

If you give them written chords they'll have them on the floor for the rest of their lives. And never use dots for folk.

Bullshit. If you've never needed written chords or dots, chances are that what you're playing is trivially simple, or that accuracy to the original tune is irrelevant for you. Most bands aim to do better than that.

Of course, if your band *do* have the written chords on the floor forever, it's more likely that you just need better musicians in your band! :-/

Graham.

Subject: RE: Teaching band members original songs
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 08:00 PM

When I was in a Vocal harmony Multi Instrumental Trio , we each had portable recorder (Cassette back then ) and recorded ALL our rehearsals ! So IF someone came up with a 'new' Song , we could take their version home and have a play with it !