BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots

Subject: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Donuel
Date: 05 May 07 - 12:03 PM

Serious historical documentary

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8795795223394289910

9 minutes

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Peace
Date: 05 May 07 - 02:16 PM

That video will receive more of the Martian stuff, Don. Basically, folks don't care. They may the day they awake and find their internet connections don't work, or their cell phones, or their TVs; the day there are troops in the streets and busses and trains waiting to take folks to camps that so many have said don't exist; hell, even Skull and Bones has been characterized on Mudcat as a fraternal organization composed of people who are just 'boys being boys'. Good try, however.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 May 07 - 02:25 PM

"Basically, folks don't care." Yeah. The same was true in Nazi Germany in the 30's. Nothing is as stubborn as sheer conventionality, convenience, myopic self-interest, and the force of habit.

"Give me convenience or give me death!"

A population that is more interested in watching "Survivor" or "American Idol" than in reading and understanding history is a population that is pretty much beyond help. They will be very surprised when it all ends...which it won't for quite some time yet, I expect. The GREAT DISILLUSIONMENT is yet to come.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 May 07 - 02:37 PM

Three thoughts come to mind:

1) As long as Bush leaves office at the end of his term peaceably and lawfully, I don't much care what his grandfather thought, did, stood for. Very few of us could vouch for or condone or defend everything each of our forebears thought, did, stood for.

2) 'Skull and Crossbones' is an old 'institution', one that many Americans joined. Pesumably not ALL of those Americans were traitors.

3) Every country in this world has its skeletons and is facing the same dangers. The USA is not alone, not even close.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 05 May 07 - 02:41 PM

Honestly, we've heard all this Illuminati and World Bank stuff before. Franklin Roosevelt was a tool of the Worldwide Jewish Banking Conspiracy and conspired in the Pearl Harbor Attack in order to provoke US entry into World War 2, right?
There is a seed of a theory in the film. If Prescott Bush was involved with Nazi money-laundering, that is truly scandalous. But it doesn't logically follow that his grandson is a disciple of Hitler. Juxtaposing pics of Bush and Hitler kissing babies doesn't prove anything except politicians kiss babies. If the Bushes are exerting fascist control of the government, how did their minions allow things to get so out of control that they lost control of Congress in the midterms? And if something went wrong in their nefarious plan, why weren't there troops in the street on November 5? Does the Bush Administration's continued lop-sided support of Israel reveal Hitlerian motivation?
I'm sure if you really buy this stuff you can answer all of those questions. Conspiracy theory has much in common with religion ; it must be approached from a position of emotion and faith. Inductive reasoning can then fill in the blanks for you. In a way, it's like Bush's argument for invading Iraq. The same sort of thought process.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 May 07 - 02:44 PM

One of the troubling aspects of the presentation is the sideswipe at Swartzenegge. I'm no fan of the Ahnold but fair is fair.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: bubblyrat
Date: 05 May 07 - 04:42 PM

Interestingly, regarding Pearl Harbour (Harbor ), there are some people who subscribe to the theory that Churchill was made aware of the Japanese carrier- fleet"s approach toward Hawaii. The story goes that two submarines, one British and one Dutch, had seen the Japanese fleet, and had surfaced to radio reports of the sighting.The first to surface was the British sub., whose commander was immediately told, on receipt of his report, that Churchill would agree to ANYTHING to hasten America"s entry into the war, and that the Dutch sub. was to be torpedoed and sunk as soon as it surfaced, in order to prevent it from sending a warning to the USA. I do not believe this , personally , but I am sure that there are people who DO------probably the same people who believe that the British secret service assassinated Princess Diana, and that George Bush is a NAZI .

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 May 07 - 05:15 PM

It occurs to me that this proliferation of conspiracy theories we've seen of late (God knows, enough of them have been posted here on Mudcat!) constitute something of a danger in themselves.

It's like the story of the little boy who cried "Wolf!" We're inundated with so many of these conspiracy theories that if someone were to come along with a true revelation of this sort, he would quite probably just be written off as merely another nut-case hawking yet another conspiracy theory.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: kendall
Date: 05 May 07 - 05:21 PM

Our hero, Charles Lindburg was a Nazi sympathizer, and that is a matter of history.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Peace
Date: 05 May 07 - 05:23 PM

When governments make a practice of lying to their respective citizenries, conspiracy theories will abound.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Peace
Date: 05 May 07 - 05:24 PM

That aside, how much of the video is bullshit and how much is fact?

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Amos
Date: 05 May 07 - 06:23 PM

The genetics and the basic statements of Prescott Bush's financial transactions with the Third Reich are factual.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 May 07 - 06:36 PM

I've heard bits of this from other, much more reliable sources. Apparently, the Bush family was tied up in this sort of thing prior to WWII. But they were not the only ones. Lots of people pulled out quickly when they realized what was really going on.

I hazard to guess that, if we could be hanged for some of the things our ancestors may have done, then we'd probably all be in deep doo-doo.

Cooler heads have noted Prescott Bush's dealings with Hitler's Germany, but have not seen fit to make an issue of it as far as George W. Bush is concerned, other than to just make note it. My personal opinion is that Bush has a lot of fascist ideas and tends to act a lot like a fascist, and he gets a lot of this from his cronies and advisors (like Karl Rove). I doubt that he comes by this through any kind of philosophical thought process. But the idea that he, and/or his advisors are part of some neo-Nazi conspiracy strikes me as doubtful in the extreme.

Not impossible. But extremely unlikely.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: gnu
Date: 05 May 07 - 06:38 PM

Hey, bidness be bidness. As for politics and policy, ask Carl Hess.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 May 07 - 07:05 PM

It's "Skull and Bones", not "Skull and Crossbones".

And who needs a theory about Winston Churchill manipulating events in the Pacific to get the USA in the war sooner? FDR wanted the USA in the war almost as much as Churchill did, and FDR did everything in his power to provoke the Japanese into attacking America first...and succeeded admirably. He backed them into an economic corner where they were guaranteed to attack America first. So blame him for Pearl Harbour if you want someone on the Allied side to blame and forget about Churchill... ;-)

Anyone else might have done something similar in his place, by the way, given the general situation internationally in 1941. He was very concerned that Germany might win the war if the USA didn't get involved, and that was a legitimate concern. The way to get the USA involved was simple: get Japan to attack the USA. That was just about the only way that would work, from the point of view of public relations and political realities in the USA at the time. Ordinary people in the USA did not want to go to war. Most congressmen did not want to go to war. They had to get damn mad about something first. For that to happen, some foreigners had to launch a bloody and totally "unexpected" and apparently unprovoked attack on American soil.

Sound familiar? ;-)   Thus do the puppetmasters pull the strings.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Bobert
Date: 05 May 07 - 08:01 PM

Nuthin' new... The next film outta be the realationship bewteen the Bushs and the bin Ladens..

But I agree with Ebbie... As long as he leaves when he's 'sposed to I'll be happy... Okay, not happy but...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: dianavan
Date: 06 May 07 - 04:05 AM

Prescott did business with the Nazis and the Bush family also has business dealings with the bin Ladens. George has topped them all by deceiving the American people into believing he is some kind of Christian crusader.

I wonder how Israel feels about Georgie sucking up to Syria? In fact, if Israel were really smart, they'd seek an alliance with Iran and Iraq to oppose Arab/American economic control of the Middle East. I really don't think GWB has a political alliance. He'd do anything for money. He sold his soul to the devil a long time ago. Just ask Dick Cheney.

Lets also remember that Joe Kennedy made his money during prohibition.

Most of the wealthy have become wealthy by the exploitation of someone or something which is a very good reason to explore their history before voting for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 May 07 - 06:25 AM

"It's like the story of the little boy who cried "Wolf!" We're inundated with so many of these conspiracy theories that if someone were to come along with a true revelation of this sort, he would quite probably just be written off as merely another nut-case hawking yet another conspiracy theory."

Which is EXACTLY WHY, mate, we are bombarded endlessly with all this mindless gibberish...

"We love the moon..."

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: artbrooks
Date: 06 May 07 - 06:54 AM

Ah, Robin...so conspiracy theories are a conspiracy of the conspirators so that nobody will believe in the conspiracy?

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 May 07 - 02:30 PM

What a brilliant plan...! ;-)

When politically significant things happen...like an assassination or something that causes a war...there are always 2 possibilities:

1. It happened "by accident" (meaning that it was the unpredictable act of a single lone weirdo).

2. It happened by deliberate design, because someone, some group of well-organized people, wanted a politician dead or wanted a war to happen.

I'll tell you which of the above 2 possibilities is a thousand times likelier in almost every case. Number 2.

And if it is number 2...then you HAVE a conspiracy. The fact that people are able to come up with a tremendously large variety of conspiracy theories is not surprising, and it does not lessen the probability there there was, in fact, a consipiracy.

Therefore to dismiss people as "conspiracy nuts" just because they think there was a conspiracy smacks of being a very prevalent government-sponsored media conspiracy itself, as far as I'm concerned. One intended to shut people up and protect the guilty.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 06 May 07 - 02:53 PM

LH, did you watch that film? For about 2/3 of it, the guy makes a credible case for Prescott Bush being either a Nazi sympathizer, or at least a Nazi facilitator and profiteer. But then, he jumps off into Arnold Schwarzennegger and W's upbringing as a Hitler disciple. There's a difference between presenting facts, criticising generally-accepted explanations, suggesting explanations, and then making a leap to an outrageous conclusion that has little to do with known fact and everything to do with an agenda that is, to my mind, the product of paranoia and hate.

To make outlandish accusations based on unrelated facts and questionable supposition has an effect opposite of the intended one : It makes any criticism of studies like the 9/11 report seem like a paranoid manifestation, and forces people like me into a position of defending an erstwhile political enemy. I see nothing in the conclusions of either the Nazi film or Spare Change that would provoke heightened study by any responsible reporter.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 07 - 03:16 PM

That has been the problem with some of the films that address 'other' views on conspiracy stuff. The producers tend to bring in extraneous material that detracts from the main thrust of the research/contention. I find it frustrating--as someone who does not think all is well with the world and the Neocon agenda--because it tends to make folks look more than foolish, possibly to the extent of discrediting the argument completely because it strays too far from its main point(s).

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 May 07 - 04:52 PM

Yeah, I watched it, LEJ. It had a lot of interesting stuff in it. I doubt that all that stuff is accurate. I figure that some of it is. I never expect people with an ax to grind to be totally right about everything. People with an ax to grind always jump to greatly extended conclusions that happen to suit their point of view. Still, I did find the film quite interesting.

You know, the favorite way of a skeptic attacking and supposedly discrediting an entire point of view on something is for that skeptic to zero in on any particular detail(s) of it that don't hold up or that seem unlikely...and just mainly talk about that as if that proves that it's ALL wrong.

That too is what people do when they have an ax to grind. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: artbrooks
Date: 06 May 07 - 05:14 PM

Occam's Razor: "All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one." For example, if 2,950,000 people (2002 figures) are accidentally killed or injured on US highways every year, is it more likely that the governor of New Jersey's injury was the result of an accident or that the other guy specifically targeted him? If an alienated, possibly crazy, person can kill 3 dozen people in Virginia, than why can't an alienated, possibly crazy, person kill a president without the necessity of bringing in the Mafia, LBJ, Castro and unknown additional people?

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 06 May 07 - 06:19 PM

Little Hawk, agreed. And none of us are objective enough that we approach any subject without at least a few preconceived notions. I agree with both your and Peace's last statements.

Here, knowing what I currently know, is what I believe.

1) I don't believe that the 2000 election was "stolen", although I do believe that there were improprieties that deserve further investigation.

2) I believe that Bush and his pals saw Iraq as unfinished business since well before his election, and before 9/11. I believe they were looking for an excuse to provoke "regime change" there.

3)Despite the fact that the Bush administration had strong reason to suspect, and probably should have predicted based on the evidence, the 9/11 attack, I don't believe that they were involved in its planning.

4) I believe that, due to the importance of Saudi Arabia as our ally in the Mideast, extraordinary measures were taken to absolve them from any hint of blame in 9/11.

5) I believe that the Bush Administration sought out evidence to justify military action against Sadam Hussein, to the point of sighting intelligence reports they knew to be fraudulent.

6) I believe that the 2004 election, while very questionable things happened in the Ohio vote count, was also not "stolen" by the Bush administration.

7) I believe that the Bush Administration has used the War on Terror to justify actions that are not consistent with the traditional function of our government, and that Bush has extended the use of emergency powers granted him in the wake of 9/11 to a point that basic freedoms are under threat, and the independent balance of the three branches of our government are i jeopardy.

Peace, if you and Little Hawk don't buy the entire Bush-Hitler-Selfinflicted 9/11 scenario, I'm wondering how you view the extent of Bush's actions.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 May 07 - 06:56 PM

Art, it's a lot harder for "an alienated, possibly crazy, person" to succeed in killing a president than it is for him to succeed in killing a bunch of anonymous students or other members of the general public in any one of several million possible sites throughout the USA. ;-)

If you don't believe me, try it. Try and kill the president. It ain't easy.

Art, I could with absolute ease get a gun, walk into some school in my town or any town, and kill a bunch of ordinary people (and probably get killed by the police in the process). I could not with absolute ease do that to an American president and my chances of doing so would be very, very slim...like a thousand to one. Presidents know they are in considerable danger of assassination, and they have tremendous security around them at all times. It's part of the job.

LEJ - I don't know or necessarily believe anything about it. I merely strongly suspect that Bush is a figurehead for a neoconservative movement that is deeply entrenched in the government and the military-industrial complex and the international banking system, that those neocons have stolen 2 presidential elections in a row, that they planned the Afghan and Iraq wars long before 911, that 911 was the excuse for going in but not the real reason. I suspect that neocon elements in the US government, CIA, and FBI were complicit in either arranging or assisting the 911 attacks in some way, and that they are complicit in covering that up ever since.

I suspect that the WTC buildings were planted with explosives ahead of time and brought down by controlled demolition. I know that at least one of the 2 towers was hit by a large airplane (because I have seen it on film), and I am about 99% certain that the other one was hit by a large plane too. I wonder about certain aspects regarding those airplanes...but it's a complicated and lengthy subject which I haven't got time for at the moment. I am not so sure about exactly what hit the Pentagon or how...that's a very anomalous situation we have there (for a number of reasons...much conflicting testimony from eyewitnesses for one thing...many oddities about the damage inside and outside the building).

I suspect that the CIA has had a strong Nazi-like character in its chain of command ever since 1946, in that its techniques and attitudes toward society are totalitarian and absolutely criminal in nature. Accordingly, I consider the CIA to be a dire threat to both America and the entire world.

These are all things I suspect, LEJ. How the heck would I be in a position to know them...and by extension...to believe them?

The things I know and believe in life are those things that I have experienced or personally seen in no uncertain terms. The rest is speculation...probabilities...my best guess given all the stuff I've seen and heard secondhand from others.

I suspect many of the things which you say you "believe". I guess we're using the word "believe" a little differently.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 07 - 07:22 PM

Other than the air of surreality that to this day surrounds the events of 9-11, I will stay away from that for the moment and concentrate on Bush.

I do NOT think Bush had any involvement with 9-11. You may not care for my reasons, but here y'are.

1) Smart people could never see him as one of their own--smart, that is. But he has connections.

2) I will NEVER forget the look on his face in that Florida classroom. It was one I have puzzled over for years, and still do. I have reached the conclusion that he was in shock. Not because of the event, but because the way it was supposed to have worked is not the way it did work. I think that what was running through his mind was a litany of people and he seemed to be in a mad mental scramble for seven minutes trying to determine who he knew that was/could have been responsible.

3) Events over the years have demonstrated that there has been and continues to be a concerted attempt to take over the US government, subvert the Constitution, gain more control over the UN and take a shot at being more than influential with the World Bank.

4) The US is verging on bankruptcy, but that is a neat scenario. When you are in debt to the bank for $10,000, they own you. When you are in debt to the bank for $10,000,000, you own them. I think that the Neocons--and by that I do not mean New Conservatives; rather, I mean those members of an organization that has been using the term 'New World Order' for more than a hundred years now--intend to go for broke. I think many of the people who advised Bush were and are members to one degree or other. One need look no further than Cheney--I mean, c'mon, him as a Vice President? He's a ruthless CEO, and his influence has resulted in tremendous amnounts of money going to his cronies. The USA with private 'warriors' like Blackwater? Internment camps like Guantanamo? Sending people off to other countries to be tortured? The US involvement in Latin America through Special Forces and CIA?

Bush had a shot at the Presidency. Maybe it runs in the family. Cheney? Never. So the US now has the most inept leader in its history. And he's been leading the country to ruin, and in chaos there is opportunity. As the Neocons are so ably demonstrating.

I don't know if this answers you. Hope so. Most of it I don't care to discuss anymore, but I liked the way you asked.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 May 07 - 08:11 PM

Yeah, I don't much care to discuss most of it anymore either. I can't do anything about it, neither can anyone else on this forum, and I don't need the flak from people about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 07 - 08:26 PM

I don't mind the flak, LH, but stupid flak gives me a pain where I sit.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 06 May 07 - 09:24 PM

I don't blame you guys for not wanting to discuss this. It would be a shame if something were to, y'know, happen to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 07 - 09:39 PM

Well, that wouldn't mean much in the grand scheme of things--speaking for myself here.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 May 07 - 09:53 PM

Likewise. Besides, something happens to everyone eventually.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: GUEST,interoffice memo
Date: 06 May 07 - 10:25 PM

Witness the discourse of the ticks, my fellow Ubermen. Is it not amusing? They feed on the dog yet most admit the dog does not exist. The Majestic Hitlerian Thought emerged from the fires of World War 2 forged even stronger than before, and today we control the former British colonies, Israel, and most of Europe.

The planned culling of the useless feeders proceeds apace, and few of these ticks are aware of the plan. They do not question the existence of the dog, and even more incredible, they do not question the existence of other ticks. We tell the ticks on the left flank that they are in danger from the ticks on the right, and they fight. Is that not beautiful? Soon, we will be able to do without whole flanks of ticks. Whole haunches and hams will be free of these useless feeders, and we'll show the ones left alive canned footage and they will continue to fight. Who among them will know any different?

Marvel at the simplicity of the tick's mind. It can't even thread together the Majestical Hitlerian Thought as it has existed in the short span of the past few decades. The final few to die may ask why we are killing them, and your answer should be, "Because we CAN! Because we MUST, for the good of the species!"

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 07 - 10:48 PM

In a sense, you're correct about that, although the writing style indicates you are a sci-fi fan. (S'okay, I am too.)

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 06 May 07 - 10:53 PM

A lot of the info is true. Prescott Bush was president of the Union Banking Corporation on Wall Street when it was seized by the govt in 1942 under the Trading With The Enemy Act.

As for the attempted takeover of the govt in 1934, it is a matter of public record. Many corporate heads were openly fascist at that time and wanted to organize both labor and govt on a fascist model. Hearst praised Hitler in his papers. Dupont, General Motors, Ford--all fascist at the top.

Gerald Macguire of the American Legion was a ond salesman on Wall Street who approached General Smedley Darlington Butler recently retired from the Marines and wanted him run for commander of the American Legion. When Butler looked into it further though he learned that what Macguire wanted was for Butler to use the American Legion to put pressure on Roosevelt to put America back on the gold standard. Butler was only interested in veterans' issues rather than politics but Macguire introduced him to some corporate heads who revealed that the loss of the gold standard scared them and they were afraid of losing their fortunes. Robert Sterling Clark of the Singer Sewing Machine Co. told Butler he had $30 million and was willing to spend in order to keep the other half.

Macguire realizing that Butler cared only about veterans' issues returned from Europe telling Butler was a large role that veterans' groups played in the formation of the Nazi Party, Mussolini's fascist party and the Croix de Feu of France. The Macguire told Butler that the plan was to raise a 500,000 army and march on Washington and takeover the White House. Butler was to lead that army.

Once they took over the govt (this seems to be based on the Beer Hall Putsch), the president would be reduced to a figurehead. If he made waves, he would be removed and someone like Senator Burton Wheeler of Montana would occupy his seat. Macguire said that J.P. Morgan Bank could raise up to $300 million and was prepared to do so. That the du Pont family was prepared to use their Remington Arms Company to arm this army.

Should Butler refuse, Macguire said his group of nine high-powered shadowy backers that also included the Rockefellers and E.F. Hutton, would approach generals Douglas MacArthur and James Van Zandt in turn (not really stating exacly what would be done with the one who refused). Macguire stated that these backers were going to start a "superorganization" dedicated to fascism and the overthrow of FDR, the New Deal and American govt in general.

Alarmed, Butler broke the story to the media. Robert Clark promptly threatened to sue. J.P. Morgan & Co. stated that Butler's charges were ridiculous.

Yet, The superorganization Macguire spoke of DID form and was called the American Liberty League. It was headed by Grayson Murphy, president of a powerful Wall Street brokerage house (he was, in fact, Gerald Macguire's boss) and the treasurer was none other than Robert Sterling Clark. The group received substantial funding from General Motors, Dupont, E.F. Hutton, Rockefeller interests and others known in that circle.

The ALL had contacts with various homegrown fascist groups and parties and used them to found offshoots as the Sentinels of the Republic that were anti-FDR, anti-govt, antisemitic and virulently racist--actually pushing the KKK's racial line.

James Van Zandt then came forward to testify that he too had been approached by Macguire concerning leading an army that was to boot out FDR in a coup, occupy the White House and put America back on the gold standard.

HUAC investigated the story but were far too cowed by the powerful forces involved to go very indepth. They never subpoenaed any of the powerful men that Butler claimed to have met. But they couldn't ignore the evidence either and wrote in 1934 that Butler's story was completely credible and 100% verifiable. Their report added: "There is no question that these attempts were discussed, were planned and might have been placed in execution when and if the financial backers deemed it expedient."

And when you remember that Bush's purpose for being in the White House was to make big business filthy rich and the expand executive power to dictatorial proportions, the idea that Bush is a fascist is not so far-fetched. Certainly he grew up hearing pro-fascist remarks among his older relatives.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 06 May 07 - 10:57 PM

Btw, Robert Sterling Clark, despite all his threats to sue Butler lest he retract his statements didn't scare Butler a bit. The general refused to recant and Clark never sued.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Donuel
Date: 07 May 07 - 12:20 AM

This film was made just after the 2004 Republican convention so a reference to current events is to be expected.

I have a nasty habit of collecting compromising pictures.
Probably one reason I can't keep a website.

I have some of AAARRnold performing a body building tribute to the Nazi salute when he was only 19 years old. boys will be boys.


good stuff 282.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 May 07 - 12:42 AM

Here's wickipedia's page on the Yale secret society, "Skull and Bones".

Skull and Bones

It makes for interesting reading. Members, most of whom appear to be drawn from society's elite, meet twice a week in a building on Yale's campus called "The Tomb". Lovely people, I'm sure! It's very, very exclusive to be a Bonesman. George H.W. Bush is a Bonesman. So are George W. Bush and John Kerry.

You really can't beat an election where the 2 choices for the man at the top are both drawn from the same grisly-minded outfit, can you?

The Nazi SS also used a Skull and Bones insignia. It was the well known symbol of the SS Totenkopf Division, the "Death's Head" Legion. They were among Hitler's most dedicated, fanatical, and elite soldiers....not that I'm necessarily saying that is a direct historical connection to Yale's Skull and Bones club. I'm not. But I think it's kind of spooky, to say the least.

Who bases his philosophy on a symbol like a Skull and Bones logo? A pirate. A murderer. A killer. A dabbler in the dark arts. That's who. These things are not coincidental. They are not mere happenstance.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 May 07 - 01:00 AM

The interesting thing is, Donuel, that had the Nazis won WWII, their salute would now be very popular and respected and widespread in the world, I'm sure. So would their swastika symbol. It would be as ubiquitous as the Stars and Stripes. They would be the "heros" of the media. The winners, you see, get to decide who the official "good guys" and the official "bad guys" are.

So when you say of Schwarzenneger "boys will be boys"...you may be closer to the truth than you think. How innocent may a 19 year old be, after all? Probably quite innocent. What I am saying is someone can be basically a good person and still make the mistake of completely innocently backing an evil cause. Millions and millions of people have done so over and over again in history. Millions are doing so right now when they support unprovoked attacks on small nations by big nations, when they support wars over nonexistent threats from WMDs that don't exist...

I have no idea whether or not Arnold Schwarzennegger is basically a good person...or not...but I'm saying that he could be a 100% good person and still have done that routine you mentioned. Plenty of good people get misled by bad political causes. It just depends who got to influence them first when they were young and impressionable.

"It is always possible to get one half of the poor to kill the other half for you." (quote from the mouth of Boss Tweed in the movie "Gangs of New York")

We ordinary people all over this word in every country ARE "the poor". The bosses use us to kill one another while their agenda of enlarged profit and control goes forward.

"Meet the new Boss! Same as the old Boss!"

Only people who absolutely refuse to kill for the $ySStem cannot be used by such bosses. The bosses kill people like that. People like Gandhi and Jesus and Martin Luther King. People who simply WILL not kill for the $ySStem are the ultimate subversives.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 May 07 - 01:16 AM

http://www.freedomdomain.com/secretsocieties/skull01.html

"The second of the ordeals is that of nature. The prospective Bonesmen are judged on their skills as outdoorsmen. Hunting in the New England countryside or, better yet, traveling to distant locations like Africa, the jungles of South America or even the American badlands of the Plains states, is a prerequisite for admission to the Spartan elite ranks of the Order.
(Yep. George W. did a lot of traveling. Right?)

" The third of the ordeals is war. The experience of combat during wartime is considered to be of special significance for the Bonesmen, who see themselves as the elite of the New England WASP warrior caste. Many Yale Bonesmen of President George (Herbert Walker) Bush's generation, as the result of the outbreak of World War II, went directly from prep school into the military service prior to their entering Yale.
(Yep, sounds just like George W.)

****" Future Yale Bonesmen are expected to excel in some team sport, such as baseball and football, both American inventions."
(Yep. Still just like George W. He was a cheerleader.)


Incidentally, one of my heroes is William Sloane Coffin. Evidently he too is among the evil: "Episcopal Church activist William Sloan Coffin, a Bonesman, a second leading figure in the anti-war protest movement, had previously served as a CIA officer."

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 May 07 - 01:23 AM

Obviously, Ebbie, the guidelines were loosened up a bit in George W.'s case... ;-)

Why? Good family connections. You know as well as anyone else, Ebbie, that in this world the first thing that counts is not WHAT you know, but WHO you know. And how much money you have. The more stringent requirements are generally applied to those who are somewhat more lacking in the necessary good connections and money.

As is typical everywhere.

George W. got to play combat pilot too, when he was on the aircraft carrier. Remember? Some heros are actually made on the field of battle. Others are just invented for the occasion.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 May 07 - 09:51 AM

As for William Sloane Coffin...fine. Good people can be found in the ranks of virtually any organization. But if you were going to join a club, what would your reaction be to one whose symbol was a Skull and Bones and who had meetings in "The Tomb"? Would it worry you a bit? Well, perhaps not if your Dad had been in it or something like that...it all depends on your general impression, doesn't it?

Millions and millions of ordinary Germans served the Nazis. I doubt that all of them or even most of them were evil people. I bet any number of them were not evil people in the least, but merely regular people who were under a false impression about the larger situation around them.

Virtually NO one in this world is consciously evil. People always are under the impression that they have good reasons for what they are doing. The Korean kid who recently shot all those students, for example, was under the impression that he had been mercilessly persecuted by other students and society and driven to do what he did in self-defence of all decency! He thought the people he was shooting were the "evil" ones!!!

That's what people are like. They always think it's the other guy who is to blame. I'm sure the people who killed John Kennedy were convinced they were doing the world a great moral service...otherwise they would not have done it. But they were murderers.

Never be surprised to find some good people, some brave people, and some downright exemplary people among the ranks of some very bad organizations. The CIA, for example.... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Wolfgang
Date: 07 May 07 - 10:36 AM

Schwarzenneger (Little Hawk)

LOL. "Black negro" you made out of "black harrower".

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Donuel
Date: 07 May 07 - 10:45 AM

Count your blessings. Had Arnold been eligible for the Presidency instead of the idiot son George, the facist coup would have progressed far more precisely as planned.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 May 07 - 11:46 AM

Malicious innuendo, gossip, conspiracy avidity, unaccountability, libel and slander, all stemming from fear and grandiosity are easy. And predictable.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 07 - 03:45 PM

Worth reading.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: artbrooks
Date: 07 May 07 - 03:56 PM

Very true, Peace, although the article is pretty old. There is a lot more available here, from Wiki.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 May 07 - 04:29 PM

People's innate loyalty to any position they have already emotionally committed themselves to on any issue whatsoever is equally predictable, Ebbie, and it is precisely that which fuels these endless arguments and sarcastic personal attacks on Mudcat Cafe. People are very stubborn and defensive about their opinions, because their pride is involved. As such, the arguments here are mostly a waste of our mutual time, and I know it.

But it's like a game of ping pong. When you see the ball coming across the net, it's almost impossible to resist the temptation to hit it back. That's why I just posted this! ;-)

One day I will probably get so completely disgusted with the futility of this particular verbal internet game that I will break the bat over my knee, throw it in the trash can and walk away from the damn ping pong table for the last time. And you won't hear from me again. Or else I'll die first. Either way, that should end my part in the game.

Those comments are not intended to focus specifically on only you, Ebbie, but rather on all of us talking heads here on this forum. We are a bunch of restless minds with a bit too much time on our hands, I'd say. Much flippin' ado about nothing.

Wolfgang - Yeah, I find it difficult to remember exactly how to spell Arnold's surname, and I don't want to look it up every time. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 May 07 - 06:51 PM

"egger" refers to the land, Little Hawk, and schwartzen to the color- would that be a reference to rich soil, Wolfgang? Rather than the color of the person.

I grew up with a family named 'Swartzentruber', a somewhat anglicised version of 'black grape grower', I believe.

My friend grew up and went on to marry a man named 'Swartz'.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 May 07 - 07:04 PM

I knew the "schwarzen" part, but I was not familiar with the meaning of "egger".

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Donuel
Date: 18 May 07 - 01:48 PM

This historical research is presented in a rather suspenseful way

However

this is probably the most bizarre explanation of who W's grandfather really was. The claim is that the original family name was Schref.

Since I think mostly in pictures, I see this as a most entertaining spy movie in black and white with science fiction political intrigue.

without further ado I present to you... http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20070405.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: guitar
Date: 19 May 07 - 03:57 AM

Bobert has changed their tune, if I remeber Bobbert supported Bush, now he it seems he doesn't I wonder why

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 May 07 - 01:03 PM

Bite your tongue. You are mistaken.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of Bush's Nazi roots
From: Peace
Date: 19 May 07 - 03:43 PM

Bobert NEVER supported Bush. In fact, it was all folks here could do to get him to vote for a Democrat in an effort to get Bush OUT of the White House three or so years back.