Celtic/Irish/Scottish - for Penguin Egg

Subject: Celtic/Irish/Scottish - for Penguin Egg
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 07:32 PM

Here, Penguin Egg, so you will stop hijacking a thread about something else. But the subject is a pet peeve of mine, so let's talk it out. We have done so before, a number of times, on Mudcat, but let's get fresh perspective.

It bothers me no end when I see folks toss around the term Celtic to describe music as if that was an accurate description of some kind of music. It is akin to someone asking you what kind of car you drive and you answer "an American car". Celtic music contains many distinct types of music, from Brittany, Spain, Ireland, Isle of Mann, England, Scotland, etc. Within each of those place names there are any number of subsets. Another one that makes me nuts is when (like this last weekend) when I see someone selling "Celtic" paraphanalia and posters, and the only thing "Celtic" about it is the intertwining lines. The posters usually mix up Irish, Scottish and European Celtic symbols in a way that only makes sense to the uninformed and easily entertained.

Be warned! If I meet you and you tell me you play "Celtic" music, I am going to quiz you mercilessly to determine what part of Celtic culture, geography, and style you play.

There you go, Penguin Egg. It's all yours.

Rant off,

Mick

Subject: RE: Celtic/Irish/Scottish - for Penguin Egg
From: Jim Lad
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 07:42 PM

Well now: It bothers me no end that I constantly have to describe the music I do as "Celtic" because if I don't, it will take two or three sentences and they still won't get it.
But then.... that's the price you have to pay. No?

Subject: RE: Celtic/Irish/Scottish - for Penguin Egg
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 09:43 PM

Yeah, Jim. I just felt like bitchin' a bit. And Penguin Egg was determined to turn the Texas Scottish Music Festival thread into a discussion that wasn't what the thread was about. Figured I would give him a place to vent his spleen.

Mick

Subject: RE: Celtic/Irish/Scottish - for Penguin Egg
From: Jim Lad
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 10:30 PM

Heh, heh, heh! I had listed a whole bunch of things that bother me and then deleted it.
Something in the air this week. I don't know. Maybe Scrump, maybe the weather, end of Spring? Who knows?
This thread just looks like a bar brawl that spilled onto the street.
Give P.E. credit for not showing up and this one will die overnight.
I'm going outside.
Cheers
Jim

Subject: RE: Celtic/Irish/Scottish - for Penguin Egg
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 11:25 PM

I hate to say it, but you are a wise man, Brannigan.

Subject: RE: Celtic/Irish/Scottish - for Penguin Egg
From: Jim Lad
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 11:47 PM

No, I've tripped on a couple of bad threads myself this week.
I've given credit to Jed in the past though for doing Highland Games.
I can say this since I was born in Scotland. We're the hardest folks to get along with when it comes to organizing anything.

Subject: RE: Celtic/Irish/Scottish - for Penguin Egg
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 12:46 AM

Hi Mick ~~~ Perhaps you can help me out a bit. I play a lot of fiddle tunes and have a bit of trouble trying to figure out where they originated.

For example Richard Robinsons Tunebook lists tunes by country as one means of dealing with the tune list. There several tunes listed as Irish/Scottish/English. For example:

Hornpipes (only a small sample)
Alaxanders
Boys of Blue Hill
Fishers
Harvest Home

I have a feeling that most of these are originally Irish by the style of the tune. In the above list I would tend to think that "Harvest Home" may have possibly originated in England. I have no basis for this whatsoever.

Any clues ~~~ sorry this is not a Rant although some of the tunes I play are Rants ~~ usually Scottish or Irish.

Captain Bob

Subject: RE: Celtic/Irish/Scottish - for Penguin Egg
From: Jim Lad
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 01:42 AM

Capt. Bob: You may already know this but I'll go through it anyway.
If you go to the Lyrics & Knowledge page and click on Create a New Thread .... a choice of prefixes will open up for you.
Select "Songs Origins" and then insert the Title of the tune in the adjacent box.
Mudcatters will come flying down from the rafters like lemmings and give you more answers than you can carry.
Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: Celtic/Irish/Scottish - for Penguin Egg
From: greg stephens
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 03:20 AM

Fisher's was written by a German guy(actually spelt his name Fishar I believe) who lived in England. Harvest Home was popular in England. But of course, you can always argue that a tune written in England is in an Irisah style(or vice versa). It's all a very subjective thing, the "where do tunes come from" discussion.I think it reasonable to say that stucturally hornpipes were an importinto Ireland from Britain, but where any specific tune originated....God alone knows and he isn't telling.

Subject: RE: Celtic/Irish/Scottish - for Penguin Egg
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 04:07 AM

I ask a simple question.... and everyone bundles on top of me.

Subject: RE: Celtic/Irish/Scottish - for Penguin Egg
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 04:07 AM

...still, its nice to have a thread with my name in it. Thaks, Big Mick.

Subject: RE: Celtic/Irish/Scottish - for Penguin Egg
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 08:54 AM

jEri from New Hampsh8re sez:
The problem with tunes is that all those diddley countries are too close together and steal each other's tunes. Plus sometimes people write new tunes and just sneak them in without telling anyone. Plus, you don't get, "Hey Bob, where'd that tune come from? Who did you learn it offa?" No, you get, "This is a music session, not a talking session. Shut up and play!"

Subject: RE: Celtic/Irish/Scottish - for Penguin Egg
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 06:42 AM

All music originates from the centre of the universe. Lancashire. End of problems.

:D

Subject: RE: Celtic/Irish/Scottish - for Penguin Egg
From: concertina ceol
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 07:20 AM

Rubbish - everyone knows all the good stuff started out in Yorkshire ;-)

Subject: RE: Celtic/Irish/Scottish - for Penguin Egg
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 08:25 AM

yeah, but it didn't get popular until it got to Chicago.

Mick

Subject: RE: Celtic/Irish/Scottish - for Penguin Egg
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 09:22 AM

Wasn't all Irish music written by the Chicago Police Department?
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Celtic/Irish/Scottish - for Penguin Egg
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 09:30 AM

Yep and they saved the Irish language too!! Fin MacCool actually came from there. Did you know that the British Secret Service is actually responsible for the Great Chicago Fire????? Then they blamed it on that poor Irish woman's cow. Have they no shame??????

Mick

Subject: RE: Celtic/Irish/Scottish - for Penguin Egg
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 09:33 AM

But, of course, origins seem so unimportant compared to the fact that all that music all wound up in Texas. This weekend at least.
- Phil