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BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started!
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Subject: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: skipy Date: 31 Jul 07 - 06:03 PM NOW BEHAVE & KEEP THIS RATIONAL! Cut & paste:- Smoking ban may cause pub to close Smoking ban may cause pub to close A TRADITIONAL pub in Redhill may be forced to close because the smoking ban has slashed trade by half. Landlady of The Crown, in Nutfield, Sharon Murphy, has told the Surrey Mirror that the pub has lost half of its takings since the beginning of July when the ban was introduced. The 46-year-old added: "I'm not even close to my targets. I used to make somewhere between £2,000 and £2,500 a week, but now its less than £1,000." "I'm extremely worried about my job - if my takings are the same this week as last, I don't think we will survive longer than a month. "If it has to close it will be very ,very sad - I've put everything into it and to lose it would be like losing a piece of myself." Sharon said the loss of business means it is impossible for the pub to afford new shelters for smoking customers, or even cover costs in running entertainment at the pub, such as hosting a band. Her 20-year-old son, Chris, who works at the bar five days a week said: "Ninety per cent of our customers are smokers and they just don't stay as long - instead of having two or three pints and a smoke they just have the one and leave." Chris said The Crown has been closing early for the past few days because the smoking ban has killed trade. "We could lose our jobs over this - it's really bad. We're both really stressed about things and it's not good for either of us." Chris, who is a smoker, finds he cannot take cigarette breaks if there are customers in the pub because he is not allowed to leave the bar unmanned. Sharon Murphy said she owes it to the customers to stay optimistic for the future and hopes things will improve once the ban has settled down, but remains angry at the Government for implementing an ill-thought out ban that has wrecked her business. "I can't see any other reason why I've lost the trade that I have and the funny thing is the one bar you can smoke in is in the Houses of Parliament." Skipy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: John MacKenzie Date: 31 Jul 07 - 06:06 PM I'm tempted to say tough shit, but in reality, it will level out eventually, let's hope they can hang on. G |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: skipy Date: 31 Jul 07 - 06:08 PM I don't know them so I can't say, however I do know that thing around here are not going well at all. Skipy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Becca72 Date: 31 Jul 07 - 06:12 PM We banned smoking here in the States quite awhile ago now (2,3 years??) and at first the numbers of customers did drop a little bit. BUT, the nonsmokers who had been staying away because they didn't want to deal with the smoke started coming in, and the smokers eventually tired of their "Protest" and came back around. We had the same panicked "you can't ban smoking in bars or we'll go out of business!!" attitude here. And while I'm sure a small number did close the vast marjority are doing just as well if not better 2 or 3 years later. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: skipy Date: 31 Jul 07 - 06:26 PM A small number! Google it! Skipy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Sorcha Date: 31 Jul 07 - 06:32 PM We can still smoke in bars in my town. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 31 Jul 07 - 06:42 PM Doesn't seem to be making the slightest difference in my local. Except that it's a much more pleasant place to be. Same regulars, same numbers, the odd one pops out for a fag from time to time. I'm sure there will be pubs where it will make a difference, for a time anyway. I mean, a pub where 90 per cent of the users smoked must have been a pretty extreme environment for the 70 or 80 per cent of the population who don't smoke, and they aren't going to change overnight the reasonable habit of giving it a wide berth. Give them time and they'll venture in, and the smokers are mostly going to adjust. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: skipy Date: 31 Jul 07 - 06:48 PM Smoking population is 34%. Skipy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Bill D Date: 31 Jul 07 - 07:11 PM some things WILL change for awhile, but life in general will be better in the long run. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: skipy Date: 31 Jul 07 - 07:27 PM I know one pub that is taking £3500 less a week! than normal, and one pub that has laid off 2 bar staff + another that is now open 4 day a week instead of 7, all very local |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Becca72 Date: 31 Jul 07 - 07:27 PM Sorry, Sorcha...just realized what I said implied all of the US. It's spreading quickly but here in Maine smoking in bars was banned 2 or 3 years ago to very little hubub. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Sorcha Date: 31 Jul 07 - 07:33 PM There are a couple towns in Wyo that have banned it, but I 'think' only 2...Cody? and Laramie for sure. Laramie is the 'Boulder, CO' of Wyoming, grin...in Laramie you can't even smoke outside in a parking lot, or rent a smoking motel room! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Becca72 Date: 31 Jul 07 - 07:37 PM In Bangor, Maine they recently banned smoking in any vehicle that a child is in. I love the idea and think it should be state-wide but I don't know how it would fly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: skipy Date: 31 Jul 07 - 07:48 PM In the U/K you have to strap a child in & not use the phone, well that happens all the time! Skipy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Bat Goddess Date: 31 Jul 07 - 07:56 PM My mother finally apologised to me a few years ago for smoking in the (usually closed) car when I was a child -- and then wondering why I was carsick. My Dad quit smoking around 1980 because of his emphysema (and landing in the hospital with the emphysema aggravated by pneumonnia -- he passed away in 2000) -- Mom held out for a few more years. New Hampshire is surrounded by states that banned smoking in public places several years ago (like Maine), but didn't finally pass anti-smoking legislation until recently. It won't take effect for another couple months. The thing is, I know of a lot of people who follow our music, but won't come to The Press Room now because of the smoke level (even with smoke eaters). They WILL come (and drink! and eat) when the venue is smoke-free. And this singer will be very pleased, too!!! Linn |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 31 Jul 07 - 08:02 PM "In the U/K you have to strap a child in & not use the phone, well that happens all the time!" There are some irresponsible fools who fail to strap their children in, and others who use mobile phones while driving. They are very much in a minority, and deserve to be treated with the same contempt as drunken drivers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: skipy Date: 31 Jul 07 - 08:16 PM Can't agree more. Skipy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Ebbie Date: 31 Jul 07 - 08:51 PM 'Chris', above, asserted that 90% of their customers are smokers. What a godawful place for a non-smoker. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Little Hawk Date: 31 Jul 07 - 08:57 PM So....legislation limiting one addictive drug trade is interfering with the survival of another? Where's Al Capone when we need him? ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Sorcha Date: 31 Jul 07 - 10:08 PM Yea, ban it ALL. Booze included. If it's in any way enjoyable it should be illegal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Ebbie Date: 31 Jul 07 - 10:41 PM Does anyone seriously think that if tobacco and its uses had just been discovered it would be legal? Smoking tobacco makes the heart race and inhaling causes dizziness, stale butts smell bad, ash trays are a hazard, first-hand smoke has a deleterious effect on lungs and arteries and leads to heart disease and emphysema, second-hand smoke is implicated in a myriad of syndromes and diseases, burning cigarettes have burnt down countless homes and businesses as well as ruined forests and grass fields for years to come. And it's not just burning tobacco that has bad effects- chewing tobacco causes a host of other ailments. And we're supposed to feel sorry for the addict? (I loved smoking all the years that I had the habit) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: M.Ted Date: 31 Jul 07 - 11:19 PM Smoking and drinking together are factors connected with esphageal cancer. From first hand observation, I can tell you that that is quite an unpleasant way to go out of business-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Janie Date: 31 Jul 07 - 11:33 PM Where I live in the USA (along what is called Tobacco Rd. btw) smoking has been banned in most public places for long enough that I am always a bit shocked when I go into an establishment elsewhere and find people smoking. I've been hauling my tail outside for asmoke for at least 10 years, and and don't think a thing about it. And neither do other smokers, as far as I can tell. As others have said, I predict smokers will soon adjust their habits and their expectations, and look at going outside as an opportunity to stretch their legs. Janie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Little Hawk Date: 31 Jul 07 - 11:45 PM The reason for banning smoking inside buildings is simple. The smoke goes through the air in all directions and it gets inside the lungs of people who don't smoke and don't want to. It's a violation of their space. In that respect it is quite unlike alcohol. I don't get drunk because the guy next to me is drinking and my liver doesn't suffer from his habit. My lungs do suffer if the guy next to me is smoking (in a confined area). Smoking itself has NOT been banned, Sorcha. It has simply been banned within confined public areas (buildings). And that's why. And it was not banned inside anywhere because it's "enjoyable" either. This is not a killjoy operation. I DON'T enjoy it. No non-smoker enjoys it, and even most smokers don't enjoy breathing secondhand smoke coming from other smokers. I'd like to have a choice about the matter. If someone does enjoy smoking, as many do, they are perfectly free to do it out in the open air where the smoke can easily disperse. That is not a "ban". A ban is when you don't allow people to do something at all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Rasener Date: 01 Aug 07 - 02:10 AM I wish the pubs in my town would go out of business, then we wouldn't have the drunken, yobbish, aggro, asbo problems that seem to be blighting most towns and villages in England. Skipy, sounds like your first post pub, didn't do much to prepare and cater for the smokers once the ban came in and are now whinging becuase their business has gone tits up. Same old problem, they probably don't have much up in the brainbox. Bad managers will fail. I have to admit to feeling sorry for all the smokers who are outside the pubs as though they were criminals, but happy that the ban came in. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Ernest Date: 01 Aug 07 - 02:39 AM Oh that unreasonable demand to go outside for a smoke. What an impertinence to ask of people who are handicapped by unsound lungs. Can anyone please write/whine a protest song? Cough Ernest |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: JohnInKansas Date: 01 Aug 07 - 02:57 AM 'Chris', above, asserted that 90% of their customers are smokers. What a godawful place for a non-smoker. Why would a non-smoker insist on going to a place where he/she knows there will be that sort of smoking? Smoking itself has NOT been banned, Sorcha. It has simply been banned within confined public areas (buildings). Proposed regulations in my area ban smoking anywhere on the premises of any place with public access, or in a competing proposal within 100 feet of any public building. Either, or both, appear to have a good chance of passing. As "interpreted" by the local Attorney General, the first would mean that you could not smoke inside your own vehicle in the remotest corner of a super WalMart parking lot (up to 1/4 mile+ from the entrance at some businesses in the area affected). The second version has elicited the "legal opinion" that it would make it illegal for most places to even provide a legal "smoking place" outside. "Nobody who's not like me has any rights" - pretty well sums it up, although the current crop of banners (not just anti-smokers) extend it to "Anyone who isn't JUST LIKE ME should suffer and be punished for it." John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Ebbie Date: 01 Aug 07 - 03:02 AM "...within 100 feet of any public building..."? In Alaska, it's within |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Mr Happy Date: 01 Aug 07 - 03:03 AM The Villan, 'I wish the pubs in my town would go out of business, then we wouldn't have the drunken, yobbish, aggro, asbo problems that seem to be blighting most towns and villages in England.' The 1st festival I attended post ban was Saddleworth. I'm pretty sure the reason the pubs were so pleasant & accessible this year was precisely because of the restriction. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Richard Bridge Date: 01 Aug 07 - 03:19 AM I don't smoke. But I'm not precious about it, even though smoking (with help from Medway Maritime Hosital) killed my wife. Last night, after playing for the morris, we had a beer or two and a play with the locals in the pub we'd danced outside. A couple of the people from the jam session kept going outside to smoke. It was quite disruptive of the session. The session was better while all were there. I'd rather that they had stayed and played or sung (and smoked). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Liz the Squeak Date: 01 Aug 07 - 03:32 AM Sorcha - you're saying Laramie has banned smoking in public bars?!! How Ironic... Laramie is the cigarette of choice of Bart Simpson and co! I used to have fairly sound lungs. In 1984 I got pleurisy. Turns out it was probably caused by my spending a week with 149 other 18-25yr olds in a fairly confined space - it was March so not exactly go outside and smoke weather. I was one of what must have been 2% who didn't smoke. 23 years later, I still feel the effects of that pleural scarring, so much so that combined with a heart condition, the doctors thought I was asthmatic. I've never smoked, but both my parents did. Enough damage was done to my lungs by other people's smoke that I don't want to sit in a room full of fug. Damage your own lungs by all means, it's your body, your choice... but it's also my body, my choice and I choose not to be exposed to cigarette smoke please. LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Dave the Gnome Date: 01 Aug 07 - 03:54 AM It is propably one of the pubs that would have closed regardless of the ban. Any pub management who rely on 34% of the population to keep them going deserve no better. Why isn't this landlady doing something to get more people in? Both smokers and non-smokers? I don't know her at all but the line it is impossible for the pub to afford new shelters for smoking customers, or even cover costs in running entertainment at the pub, such as hosting a band. is a dead giveaway. They want the custom without putting anything into it themselves. Keep up the good work, skipy, glad you have relented on your self-imposed ban on not discussing it! :-) Cheers Dave |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Liz the Squeak Date: 01 Aug 07 - 04:06 AM There are pubs all over the land closing on a weekly basis - and that was before the ban was enforced. The population of the country is changing from a going out, social drinking one to a home (because it's cheaper) or non-drinking one (health and/or religious reasons). The smoking ban may have something to do with losing some trade, but to blame it solely is wrong. The best thing to do now would be to put some elbow grease into deep cleaning the place, give it a lick of paint that isn't tobacco stain brown and entice some new customers in. LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 01 Aug 07 - 04:31 AM On BBC this am. One Kent publican at least is saying his trade has nearly doubled, and is wondering where all the newbies were before the ban. Said publican is a very happy bunny. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Partridge Date: 01 Aug 07 - 04:56 AM My local prepared ahead for the ban with a very pleasant decked area outside. I have noticed that there are very few people inside and its quite busy outside, whether that will change in the winter I don't know. Even non smokers are sitting outside - it certainly can't be the sunshine - as its been mostly rain They have redecorated inside, and it looks very good, they even provide little stickers that say just nipped out for a smoke, so that no one will remove your drink or nick your seat while you are having a smoke. There is a really good atmosphere amongst the smokers, joking about being even worse social lepers. Pat xx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: skipy Date: 01 Aug 07 - 05:25 AM Cut & Paste:- welsh pub to close because of ban PUB TRADE KILLED BY SMOKING BAN A Briton Ferry pub has become one of the country's first victims of the new smoking laws.The Earl of Jersey has closed within months of the ban on lighting-up in enclosed public spaces coming into force. Its owner Kerry Morgan, aged 50, said the pub had nowhere for people to go outside for a cigarette. Now he's planning to turn it into flats. "Don't get me wrong, the pub wasn't booming before," said Mr Morgan. "But once the ban came in, there was no facility for people to smoke outside and it just emptied. "I would imagine 75 to 80 per cent of the regulars were working-class people who liked a cigarette. "The landlords tried their best, but the ban was the final nail in the coffin." Mr Morgan said converting the building into homes was now the only option. Now me again:- As stated in a previous thread, this is about building houses! Skipy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Brakn Date: 01 Aug 07 - 06:01 AM What Liz the Squeak said. Amen. I go to a lot of pubs and I'd say that 90% of the customers are well pleased. You can now go out for a drink and then go home without that awful cinging onto your hair and your clothes. Pubs that are on their arse were probably that way before the ban. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Brakn Date: 01 Aug 07 - 06:06 AM "awful smell clinging" My typing is getting "worser" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Dave the Gnome Date: 01 Aug 07 - 06:16 AM Don't get me wrong, the pub wasn't booming before They knew the 'ban' was coming for almost a year. Why did they not do something before? I would imagine 75 to 80 per cent of the regulars were working-class people who liked a cigarette What a crass, patronising statement. Only working class people go in pubs and smoke? Bless 'em, poor dears. They are not like us landlords though... If that was the landlords attitude I am not surprised he is closing. What are the chances he was just looking for an excuse so he could sell to property developers anyway? None of the ones I listed in the other thread have closed yet, btw. And they are all in a 'working class' area. In fact the Wagon and Horses was recently featured in the local press for their amazingly well designed and run smoking area - complete with heating and TV! Keep trying though, skipy. I am sure we will eventualy find a pub that has closed exclusively due to the 'ban'. Maybe I could point you in the right direction - Try substituting 'pubs' with 'shisha cafes' Cheers Dave |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: manitas_at_work Date: 01 Aug 07 - 06:23 AM I have my weekly session in a pub that has a high percentage of smokers (including the manager and staff). The manager thought that trade would die off but we now seem to have more people in than before (it's a very small pub and it's very easy to tell how many people are in). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Dave the Gnome Date: 01 Aug 07 - 06:26 AM Is that the one in Stratford where I met you once, with Micca and Cat, Manitas? Very quiet when I was there if it was - Glad to hear it has bucked up. D. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Aug 07 - 06:27 AM Now he's planning to turn it into flats. Precisely. Cash in on the property boom, and blame the smoking restrictions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Grab Date: 01 Aug 07 - 06:34 AM So the smoking ban was the final coffin nail, then... :-) FWIW, quite a few pubs in Cambridge have been no-smoking by choice for some years now. Strangely, they're also the most popular ones. And it's impossible to talk about no-smoking pubs without mentioning Wetherspoons, where every single pub in Britain's biggest chain of pubs has been no-smoking for as long as I can remember, and it doesn't seem to have harmed their business a bit. Graham. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Liz the Squeak Date: 01 Aug 07 - 06:34 AM Of course we're only going to hear the horror stories of how a 'smoking' pub has been put out of business by the ban... no-one is going to print stories of people doing well and enjoying themselves... just like we only heard the sob stories from publicans who hadn't applied correctly or in time for the PEL and lost their music nights. Did we hear any stories of new clubs forming thanks to the new PEL? No, I don't think we did. LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: MBSLynne Date: 01 Aug 07 - 07:41 AM I can't see that takings going down that much can be put down to the smoking ban. Most, if not all people go to the pub to socialise and have a drink. Ok, if they are smokers that used to include a cigarette as well, but I can't see them all staying home just because they can't smoke in the pub. Pubs are noticeably pleasanter places since the smoking ban, and I've heard even smokers say so. Our local village pub has had a wooden gazebo thingy erected at the front for the smokers. Surely it's no big hardship for them to go outside? The landlady in question must have had some very stroppy customers if they are staying away in such quantities just because they can't smoke there. The people I know who smoke aren't staying away from the pub just because of the ban. Love Lynne |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: skipy Date: 01 Aug 07 - 07:57 AM A pub which introduced a smoking ban six months ahead of the national ban has been forced to close due to a lack of custom. The Bush, in Ince near Wigan thought it was getting ahead of the game by banning smokers at ther start of the year but licensee Deejay Royall has been forced to shut the doors just weeks after the country-wide ban came in. Royall took over the pub 18 months ago and thousands were spent transforming the interior. He told the Wigan Evening Post: "Basically, we ran out of customers. "We introduced a smoking ban in February, we'd had it refurbished and it was looking nice. "People started to go to other pubs that hadn't introduced the smoking ban yet and then when it came in July they stopped coming in altogether. "A lot of pubs will be struggling because of the ban. I'm personally gutted." Despite being forced to close his business Royall is still a fan of the ban but believes it will force other pubs out of business. He added: "I still think it's a good idea but one that people will have to get used to and in the short term it will spell disaster for many pubs. "People are staying at home, buying cheap booze from the supermarkets and sitting with their friends smoking their heads off. Another one! Skipy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Rasener Date: 01 Aug 07 - 09:11 AM How many is that now Skipy 2? How many pubs are there in England ? What % is 2 of ?????????????? Its like all these sort of arguments. A child is abducted and all of a sudden all children are being abducted. Somebody is murdered and suddenly everybody is murdered. There's a shark been spotted by a beach. Bloody hell the whole of the United Kingdoms shores have sharks waiting to mutilate your bodies. So on and so forth. The gutter press are responsible for knee jerk reactions on many an occasion simply by plugging to death one incident. I think things have to be put into perspective e.g. the flooding disasters are far more important than this thread. You are still a good guy though Skipy - respect to you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Dave the Gnome Date: 01 Aug 07 - 09:36 AM So, Royall took over the pub 18 months ago and now reckons it is the smoking ban that has closed the pub? He took it over and then stamped his personality on it with a major refurbish. Where did he come from? What did he do before? Does he know anything Wiganers (I worked there for years and they are a traditional bunch to say the least!)? Does he know the pub trade? What other changes has he forced on the previous regulars? Again, I don't know the guy so it would be unfair of me to suggest he is looking for an excuse for his bad management. If some people can keep or even increase their custom and some can't though I doubt very much whether the ban can be the sole culprit. Is anyone else noticing that for every incident of a pub losing trade there seems to be one that is doing better? Maybe this is what we needed to get rid of some of the crap pubs and landlords we have had to put up with before? Again skipy - look at the Shisha cafes. They are the only genuine casualties of the ban. I am surprised the Moslem council of Britain has not become involved! Cheers Dave |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: Alice Date: 01 Aug 07 - 09:41 AM Let's see, trying to weigh this .... 2 pubs close on one hand or thousands of people protected from heart and lung disease from second hand smoke... hmmmm. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban closing pubs, it's started! From: skipy Date: 01 Aug 07 - 09:48 AM Come on Alice, that's like saying "take all the cars off the road" to protect people! Skipy |
