Sunnycamp September 28 to 30

Subject: Su nnycamp September 28 to 30
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 03 Aug 07 - 06:01 PM

I have to totally confirm the date with the camp and have a call in..but that is the weekend it should be. More info later. Held on beautiful waterfront on Willapa Bay on Long Beach Peninsula of Washington. Cost will be around $55 or so. Simple accomodations. Mostly one main eating/singing area and another boathouse used for instumentals. Weather can be just gorgeous...the earlier in fall the better because then it gets nasty quick. Late September the odds are with us. Usually about 30 to 40 people. Emphasis is on not using blue books and we will discourage them at main hall. Private sessions in cabins are just fine. Or use them for yourselves but don't try to give them to others who proably of the school of thought that does not like them...

Hope to get the crowd from Victoria B.C. this year...and we have had folks from California..mostly Portland to Seattle..not too many locals unfortunately. mg

Subject: RE: Su nnycamp September 28 to 30
From: Deckman
Date: 03 Aug 07 - 06:11 PM

Mary,

If you PROMISE to use ALL the blue as fire starters, I'll probably make it this year. I refuse to spend my hard earned money so that I can listen to someone request me to sing # 117. CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: Su nnycamp September 28 to 30
From: Amergin
Date: 03 Aug 07 - 06:35 PM

Oh hell, Bob....come on down anyways...I will try to make it this year.

Subject: RE: Su nnycamp September 28 to 30
From: Deckman
Date: 03 Aug 07 - 06:49 PM

ONLY IF THE BOOKS ARE BURNED ... I mean that!

Subject: RE: Su nnycamp September 28 to 30
From: Deckman
Date: 03 Aug 07 - 07:01 PM

"Why do I HATE the blue books?", you ask. Well, I'll try to tell you why.

I am a singer of ballads. A ballad is a story song. A ballad ONLY becomes "alive" when it is sung from the singer's soul. When I sing you a ballad, I sing it from my memory. I look at your face, not at a book. I see your reaction. I might even change the ballad slightly to reflect what I see in your face. I sometimes have spent YEARS getting a particuliar ballad into my soul.

A ballad must always remain alive and vital.

I'm re-reading Gordon Gerovld's book "The Ballad Of Tradition." He makes my point perfectly when he says that ballads came from, and must remain, in the "oral tradition."

"Oral tradition" does NOT mean that you sing the damned song out of a book. If you want to waste your time singing songs out of a book, join some damned church. Hell, they even provide you with books of hymns! YIPPEE!

(rant over ... but I feel better)! Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: Su nnycamp September 28 to 30
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Aug 07 - 07:37 PM

Please pardon a distant onlooker for sneaking in and commenting: I do so because Bob's concern is NOT limited to 'out there'...we have similar issues at 'The Getaway'.

Even though I am far from Sunny Camp, I like to read about activities in other areas.
   I agree with Deckman's sentiments totally. I have 3-4 shelves full of folk music books..and I even own one of 'those' blue ones....but they are for research at odd times, not too allow one to pretend one is familiar with a song.

'Singing out of a book' is for church and certain Choral societies. I would rather someone knew only 4 songs, but knew them well, than to be vaguely familiar with 40 and be pausing between lines trying to remember what verse they are on.

If someone 'almost' knows a song, and has a cheat sheet handy...just in case...I will be fine (I do it myself occasionally). The test is, if I can close my eyes and not realize the singer has a 'helper' book or sheet, I can enjoy the song.

I know some folks have it easier remembering tunes & lyrics than others, but I encourage everyone to become familiar enough with their repertoire to be able to just happily SING...*smile*

Subject: RE: Su nnycamp September 28 to 30
From: Stewart
Date: 03 Aug 07 - 07:47 PM

Bob, I agree with you, and Mary does also. So how about #116? No, just kidding. I think feeding the blue books to the lodge fireplace is the best remedy (that's what we did at John Dwyer's memorial service). But the nice thing about Mary's camp is that you can recruit your own group of singers/musicians to have your own jam or whatever - it's sufficiently unstructured and unplanned, but it seems to work. Or you can just go down to the bay shore with a beautiful view and be inspired to just sing or play music on your own.

Anyway, Mary, you can count on me and my hammered dulcimer-playing spouse to come. I think this will be our third time.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 03 Aug 07 - 08:02 PM

Oh this would be the handsomest group of gentlemen I have ever assembled...and all great singers too...mg

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: Deckman
Date: 03 Aug 07 - 09:03 PM

Mary,

I recently wrote a song that might give you a smile. I even sang it at a recent Seattle "blue book" song circle. I know that I didn't make any friends when I sang my song, but I sure felt better. Here it is:

First Verse:

"This is the song on page 17,
Page seventeen, page seventeen,
This is the song on page seventeen,
And my book's better than yours!

Next Verse:

"This is the song on page eighteen,
Page eighteen, page eighteen,
This is the song on page eighteen,
And my book's better than yours!

Next verse:

"This is the song on page nineteen" .... oh well, you get the thrust of the song!

Where's John Dwyer when we need him? CHEERS, Bob(asshole)Nelson

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: Deckman
Date: 03 Aug 07 - 09:44 PM

Mary ... I think I need to apologize to you. When I first read your opening statement regarding the upcomming camp, I focused on your mention of downplaying the dreaded "blue books."

It's your camp to run, not mine. I hope that my "rant" doesn't disscourage folkies from attending.

Your camp has a wonderful reputation. I think more than a few CD's have been created there. CHEERS, Bob

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: Genie
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 03:04 AM

Hey, Bob,
I 'preciate your rant and where it comes from. And I'm utterly with you in hating it when half of the group has their heads buried in some book instead of either digging into the trove of songs between their ears or even just listening and enjoying.

Gotta diverge a bit where that total ban goes, though.   Yes, the Blue Hymnal often does drive me crazy. But sometimes I want not only to "share" a song by way of doing it solo but also by getting everyone to sing with me, ideally with harmonies and counterpoints, etc.   Unless the song is terribly familiar -- and even then, we all seem to know slightly different versions of "Wildwood Flower" -- or consisting mainly of repetitive refrains, the best way I know to have that kind of special musical community experience is to use lyric (and/or chord) sheets. Having sung in choirs since I was thigh-high to a gnat, I can attest that some wonderful group musical times have been had, aided and abetted by cheat sheets.

Isn't it possible for a folkie gathering to include more than one 'style' of "sharing?"   ;-X


(FWIW, I can't make Sunnycamp this year, since I have to be somewhere else.    I do hope it's a great time for all, though.)

Genie

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 02:48 PM

No problem...we will find a way to accomodate them but state right up front our philosophy on them...and I think one of the best ways is to have workshops where they are encouraged...mg

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 03:30 PM

I imagine a Larson view of Day 1 in Hell, where they're giving out Blue Books instead of accordions.

Jon Bartlett, aligned (as always) with Deckman and Bill D.

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: Stewart
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 03:36 PM

No Jon, it's Blue Books AND accordions.

I'll schedule a 'no books' session.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 03:42 PM

I know it is just another culture, and valuable in its own right...but why do so many feel compared to pass out extras they have accumulated, wait until people have found the right page, not take no for an answer..and why do people feel they can not participate in the music unless they know all the words? it is music, not a poetry reading. You can hum along. Join in the chorus. Most of the songs at these events have choruses or refrains or pretty obvious melodies that you can pick up. Maybe it is the result of the follow the bouncing ball cartoons that had the lyrics on them...And I still shake my head in awe with the small group of women, who, when joined by the woman I consider the best singer in America, hands down, kept urging songs out of the blue book, and settled on "All I want is a room somewhere", whereas if they had shut up and listened, they would have had a once in a lifetime experience. Here is an undemocratic idea: there are song leaders and there are solo singers and there the rest of us..not immutable and unchangable roles, but there is a certain amount of luck or talent involved...I will personally go, and this is a preference and not a value judgement, where the music sounds the best. Not where it is the most democratically produced. I was asking people how far they would travel to go to an unknown group with blue books. I wouldn't go across the street. Mileages were very very low. One person who will be anonymous said do you mean how far would I walk to get away from them????

I will repeat that if people want to start up their own events, song circles, parties, whatever, using blue books as their guiding lights, that is of course fine and to be encouraged. It is when they come into established situations, one by one, a little trickle, and then more and then more, and drive out the good singers with the best songs that it becomes a truly horrible situation. Cut it off at the trickle or lose your group. mg

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 03:43 PM

What is this about accordians? It is an accordian friendly place..but we will move into the instrumental room. mg

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 04:03 PM

I am going to need help in getting the word out. It was really a problem last year where people did not tell me till the last minute if they were going. First of all, does anyone know when the Jewish High Holy Days are? That always seems to be at the same time and means some people can not attend. Also, does anyone know of any major events conflicting?

Also, Stewart, would you be able to write a little something for the Victory Music and/or SFS newsletter?

Could anyone in Portland do the same? This is always my biggest problem, getting the word out. I don't want to do too good a job because it is a small place and people understand it will be a small group...but there is a critical mass of around 25 or so I think..up to maybe 45 counting some day people.

Also, Jon of B.C. and anyone else if you could email or put in newsletters etc. They can email me at [e-mail]. I'll update the web site at some point. mg

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 05:07 PM

Oh what a happy day. Happy Wanderer played by an accordian band just came on the Norski hour on the radio. They are playing too many tubas for the average Scandi band though. I bet it is really German...mg

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: Dave Swan
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 05:14 PM

If the blue book were printed on absorbent perforated paper, it'd be good for something...
D

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: Stewart
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 07:11 PM

Sorry Mary, I forgot that you play accordion. I think it just has to do with the attitude of certain accordion players (not you Mary).

Yes, I'd be happy to get something out about SC in the SFS and Victory Music publications. But for the Sept. issues the deadline is the 10th or 15th of this month. So let me know very soon. Contact Bruce to get it on his song circle email.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: Deckman
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 07:30 PM

What's the difference between accordians and blue books? Mary, my appology was because I didn't mean to "hijack" your thread with my rant. But ... I still feel better! Bob

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: Deckman
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 07:31 PM

Blue books are smaller! Bob

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 08:20 PM

I'll pass the info on to Allison Campbell, our new Vancouver Chief Poobah, and to Simon Trevelyan, who runs the email list.

Jon Bartlett

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: Genie
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 11:57 PM

??? I could swear I posted a rather long (surprise!) treatise on the yeas and nays of lyric/chord cheat sheets, but it's nowhere to be found in this thread.

Am I being censored (like the well-deserved treament of the Paris Hilton impersonator post in the Getaway thread)? Or is this yet another tech glitch at Mudcat?

Perplexed Genie

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: Deckman
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 08:39 AM

Mary,

I'm trying to reach you by PM and I can't. Perhaps by going through "Stew," would you please send me your PM and I'll do the same. I have some information for you. Bob Nelson

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 12:53 PM

I probably haven't logged in in a while. I'll do that this afternoon. I am at work now so I don't at work.

Genie..I think your post is here..I read it just one second ago. mg

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 02:46 PM

Best wishes for a happy Sunnycamp, mg. I am at least 1000 miles away and probably can't make it.

I hope you find a group of people who enjoy making music and appreciate your efforts.

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: Genie
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 03:39 PM

Mary, my earlier post is still here, but the second one, which was a reply to your anti-RUS rant of 04 Aug 07 - 03:42 PM , did seem to disappear into the recesses of cyberspace. (No big tragedy, that.)

Back to the main topic, I'll be glad to submit something for the PFS newsletter, if it hasn't been done already. I think it comes out bi-monthly, so I hope the next one will come out in time.

I can also probably post an announcement at the Artichoke Music website. Of course, anyone else is welcome to do that too.

Genie

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 04:17 PM

Rant? That was a scholarly elucidation....

I would love it if you could get something in those places. I am 99% sure of the date and have a phone call in so the camp has the same dates...mg

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: Deckman
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 08:33 AM

Yes Mary ... you are quire correct! I was confused ... something I've been working on lately. "SUNNY CAMP" is down south on the Long Beach Pennisula ... "RAINY CAMP" in the one in Carnation! I hope to make "RAINY CAMP!" Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 08:50 AM

In regard to your inquiry about Jewish holidays:
This year (2007), Rosh Hashanah falls on Sept. 12-14 and Yom Kippur on Sept. 21-22.
Sunnycamp is scheduled on the intermediate days of Sukkot, for those who observe them.

--Charlie Baum, writing from Getaway territory near a different Washington

(And I'll also add my voice to those who rail against the use of RUS as a hymnal.)

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 01:21 PM

Thanks. What do people do on Sukkot usually? I am hoping you say make those potatoe latkes because I always wanted some. Anyway, I have confirmed the dates. Please spread the word as much as you can. I am going to be very very busy and will not do a great job probably. mg

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: Genie
Date: 18 Aug 07 - 04:11 AM

How "refreshing" Sunnycamp can be!

Subject: RE: Sunnycamp September 28 to 30
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 18 Aug 07 - 01:05 PM

It is quite fun. If someone was able to put 2007 somewhere in the title that would be great. Thanks. Hope to hear from people. I am just not going to go to extremes to put the word out this year. It might be the last year because the camp is being remodeled, and actually someone is talking about having a bigger camp at the same time and we could maybe combine. Plus the getting the word out is just too hard. The camp itself is no problem. Anyway, if people have emails lists etc. they could put the word out on just email me at [e-mail] and I will send you a blurb. Thanks. mg