Wasps or Hornets ?

Subject: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Alan Day
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 05:57 PM

About two years ago I killed a nest of enormous wasps or possibly hornets. Last year I saw the odd one or two, but this year I have a problem ,my wife was stung seriously on her ankle and arm which resulted in her foot swelling to twice it's normal size.I have killed a number recently and tonight got stung on my finger by one .My finger now feels as if I have plunged it in boiling water.
These thing are about one to one and a half inches long (25- 35 mm long)and look like a wasp.Hornets abroad seem more orange than these.
They are very aggressive and bite without provocation.Any one else having problems with these?
Al

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Old Grizzly
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 06:05 PM

Hornets for sure if they are that size !

Got them in Yorkshire too these last three years.

Distinctive droning buzz much lower than a wasp. Not been stung yet, but since I am allergic to tiddly little wasps. I tend to do a three minute mile when I hear a hornet - Not bad for a nineteen stone folkie eh ? :o)

Dave

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Old Grizzly
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 06:06 PM

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Old Grizzly
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 06:10 PM

oops!

there are over 40 species of wasps in the UK so I wouldn't be at all surprised to find there were many different types of hornet too.
Bet all the buggers pack a tidy old sting though I hope not to find out

The one I slapped in the kitchen today is 38mm long and quite a bright yellow stripe.

Dave

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Old Grizzly
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 06:14 PM

Stop playing the 'flight of the bumblebee' on your Tina Alan - they eat them for breakfast

:o)) Dave

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Alan Day
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 06:45 PM

With my finger stuck up in the air Dave, I can't play anything on my concertina.
Al

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Old Grizzly
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 07:06 PM

Can you still handle a bottle of single malt?.....
Well known cure - or so I am told :o)
Dave

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: SINSULL
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 09:17 PM

Last year around this time I went out barefoot to put out the trash. When I came in my ankle was covered in "bites" that stung and itched. Tami said it was ground hornet stings. The swelling lasted for about a week. A year later I have permanent red marks on my ankle. Damn things hurt!

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: JennyO
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 11:26 PM

There once was a man from St. Bees,
Who was stung on the arm by a wasp,
When they asked, "Does it hurt?"
He replied, "No it doesn't"
But I thought all the time 'twas a hornet!

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 11:42 PM

I've never known what's a hornet and what's a wasp till now.

hor·net (hôrnt)
n.
Any of various large stinging wasps of the family Vespidae, chiefly of the genera Vespa and Vespula, that characteristically build large papery nests.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Middle English hornet, alteration (probably influenced by horn, horn) of hernet, from Old English hyrnet; see ker-1 in Indo-European roots.]

My sympathies on being stung by one of them. I've always heard their bite is painful.

We have hornets of a beautiful iridescent blue-black color. Recently I had on blue jeans the same color, and a hornet landed on them. It crawled down the jeans and onto my sandaled foot. You can rest assured I didn't move a muscle until it said, "My mistake!" and buzzed off.

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 02:44 AM

Ok...we have had hornets around too this year so I researched them. The English hornet, of which there is only one, though we may get continental visitors, is much larger than wasps. It's more yellow and brown than yellow and black. Contrary to popular belief, it's sting is no more venomous than an ordinary wasp and it is far less aggressive unless you appear to be threatening the nest. It has also become relatively rare due to persecution from people believing they will die if it stings them. Unlike wasps, they don't usually build nests in buildings but in trees.

The only reason for a bad reaction to the sting is a personal allergy or sensitivity.

It would be far better to avoid killing them if possible. (Though obviously, if the nest is in the area of your house or if you ARE allergic it may need to be got rid of). As they are fairly rare, we really don't want to destroy them altogether.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Alan Day
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 03:54 AM

Lovely Poem Jenny O.
My wife was sitting at the breakfast table and without any provocation it stung her twice.We have our suspician that it came in on one of the dogs so it must have been in a bad mood.
Al

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 04:10 AM

Is this a transatlantic nomenclature difference?

First time I was Stateside we were enjoying a picnic in rural PA. There were a lot of "wasps" - which the locals told us were called yellowjacks. They're larger (slightly) than Brit wasps, same colour but less aggressive. Just as partial to someone else's lunch, though.

UK hornets (I've only ever seen one) are enormous - twice the size of wasps at least, same colour, and I certainly wouldn't want to be stung by one.

Paws

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Bee
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 07:18 AM

I suggest a visit to What's That Bug, a site dedicated to identifying critters: they have four pages of wasps.

Sorry about no link, dialup is cranky this morning and I gotta run.

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Becca72
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 11:23 AM

As a child I was stung in the right tear duct by a yellowjacket....they are not my favorite. But I always understood them to be different than wasps...I thought wasps were the big ugly black things..yellowjackets are smaller and, well, yellow (and black)

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: MMario
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 11:28 AM

well - I've always believed that "all hornets are wasps, but not all wasps are hornets" Yellowjackets are a wasp and I've heard people call them hornets. what *I* call hornets are the big white faced black suckers that are HUGE.

BTW - one major difference between a bee and a wasp is that a bee sting is a one time affair -(except for Queen Bees) and a wasp can sting multiple times.

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 01:30 PM

Of corse the real difference is that Wasps play Rugby Union and Hornets play League.
http://www.wasps.co.uk/default.ink
http://www.rochdalehornets.com/display1.shtml
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 05:57 PM

There are heaps of different types of both wasps and hornets so the ones found in the US are probably different from the UK. We have several types of wasp but only one hornet. Common wasps are black and yellow and the ones who come and annoy you at a picnic. the hornets look similar but are much bigger and are brown and yellow rather than black and yellow. while they are bigger and so scarier, hornets' stings are no worse than wasp stings and they are less aggressive. We do, however, occasionally get hornets from the continent here and they may be worse than ours. I haven't really gone into them in depth.

Don't forget, too, that a queen wasp, which you only see at certain times of year, is quite a lot bigger than the males and her sting is more painful. It's possible that what people think are hornets are often queen wasps.

Love Lynne

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 08:48 PM

Well, these two critters are as different as day and night in appearance... The hornet is like a jumbo jet with a large diameter body compared to it's length... The wasp is more segmented and sleek...

But no matter... They both carry a powerfaull sting...

The Japanese hornet will sting you so hard that it will sometime bleed...

Neither are terribly agressive... Okay the "ground hornet" which is a smuch smaller version of the Japanesse hornet is somewhat agressive, especially if you go disturbing it's underground nest...

The stings from either will blow up like a blow-fish but with either sting time is of the essence.... Tobacco draws out some of the stingy stuff so it's not bad to keep a little tobacco around in case of a sting... Just wet it, press it against the sting and keep in place with a bandaid...

No tobacco... Baking soda is next best...

Nwither, however, is gonna make it go a way... These sting are purdy painfull... Benedryl is fine, also, but better for Day 2 when the sting turns to itch...

We have thousands of these critters here on our farm but I've been lucky in not being stung for, hmmmmm. many years now... I just try to live with these critters, respect them and not let 'um think they have anything on me...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 08:50 PM

Ok I know "White Anglo Saxon Protestant", but what's a H.O.R.N.E.T. ??

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 04:13 AM

There's a challenge...must think about that!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 07:44 AM

Happy Orthodox Rabbi Nursing Evangelical Tendencies?

LTS

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 09:54 AM

Lol!

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Alan Day
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 12:32 PM

Hospital Overnight Required Needing Extra Treatment
Al

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 12:43 PM

The fastest, easiest most effective treatment for a sting or bite is to apply the root end of an onion to the area as soon as possible.

I learned this when my husband was stung multiple times by ground wasps when we were hiking in the wilderness. Luckily, another couple were on a nearby boat and the woman on board grabbed her onions. They feel cold on the skin, draw out the poison and reduce swelling. The best thing is that they are readily available.

btw - The wasps where I live, bite. They don't sting.

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 01:33 PM

For many years we had a hornet's nest on the underside of a porch railing. They never bothered us and we never bothered them.

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Alan Day
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 05:31 PM

Not sure what would be worse being grabbed by the onions or a hornet sting !
Al

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 08:10 PM

A bee sting is acidic and a wasp sting is alkaline, therefore the treatment is always to use something to neutralise the sting.
To treat with the wrong solution will exascerbate the pain.
Bicarb (bicarbonate of soda) for bee stings,
Winegar for wasps.

Colyn.

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 10:28 PM

dianavan, Question: Do the wasps in your area have teeth? How can you tell? I tried to find information on any biting wasps and found none.

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Bee
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 10:51 PM

It's very unlikely that any wasp would bite, rather than sting - stinging is their defense, mouths are for eating. Perhaps dianavan has seen some biting fly that looks wasp-like. We have some monster horse/moose flies along rivers here that are kinda stripy, though otherwise un-wasplike, that bite like mad rottweilers.

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 11:34 PM

Yeah! I remember one day when we were playing at an outdoor wedding. I was next to the fiddler who had his white shirt sleeve rolled up.

Out of the corner of my eye I saw a big glob of blood drip from his arm to the ground. A deer fly. He kept on playing. :)

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 02:47 AM

I grew up believing that wasps were hornets and that hornets were wasps. I also believed that they both stung and could sting you multiple times without dying. When I moved to Canada, I was told that hornets were wasps and that they bite you rather than sting you. Maybe its just a figure of speech. I sure would like to get this straight once and for all.

Of course they don't have teeth but have you ever taken a close look at their sharp little jaws? If you look closely at a wasp wound, you will not see a pin-point sting mark but a chunk of skin missing. The wound looks more like a bite than a sting but I will confess that I have been confused about this for years.

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 05:01 AM

I have come across people here who will say they've been bitten by an incect when in fact they have been stung. I thin it's just a general term for pain inflicted by insects.

Thanks for that Colyn! I knew about the acid alkaline thing but could never remember which way round it was! My Mum used to put laundry blue-bag on bee stings (I think...it may have been wasp) but nobody uses blue bag any more

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Bee
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 08:06 AM

http://greensmiths.com/bees.htm

This is a pretty good link descibing bees, wasps, and the only actual hornet in North America (a European import), and how they sting.

Dianavan, I am Canadian, and rather than a figure of speech, it was likely an expression of not knowing anything about insects.

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 08:43 AM

Wasps ride Vespas (Italian for wasp) and Hornets ride Harleys... the difference in sound is quite often the only way of telling the little buggers apart, if you're dancing around your tent, partially clad, waving a pair of knickers at them hoping they'll buzz off.

I've been stung twice by wasps and I have scars to prove it. The first time, I felt sick, the second time I fainted... I don't want there to be a third time!

LTS

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Becca72
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 10:44 AM

The only other time I remember being stung was I think by a wasp.
My mother never used the dryer in her whole life. We live in Maine and she would still hang clothes out to dry all year round. So one spring I was in high school I took my sweatpants for gym class off the line and packed them in my school bag for class that day. When I got to gym class I slipped one leg into the sweatpants without incident. I put the other leg in and WHAM..shooting pain in my shin. So there I am hopping around with my sweatpants half on, trying to shake the little bastard out so he doesn't do it again. It was not pretty.

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: pdq
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 10:54 AM

Our yellowjackets are stuck riding Handa dirt bikes.

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: jeffp
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 11:10 AM

Do you have any citations for your claim, Colyn? The Ohio State University recommends Baking Soda, Ammonia or Meat Tenderizer for stings. http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/2076.html

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: pdq
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 11:53 AM

The exact acidity or alkalinity of the sting is not really important. The solution has been injected under the skin and is not going to be reached by any topical solution, be it baking soda or lemon juice. If you quickly make up a thin paste of sodium bicarbonate, you will better because you have done something. Doing nothing is not easy under some circumstances.

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: jeffp
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 01:27 PM

I know from personal experience that a paste of sodium bicarbonate provides some relief. Placebo effect? Perhaps. The relief was real, however.

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Alan Day
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 06:21 PM

A very serious point to make is that wasps (not sure about hornets) love sweet things and home in on cans of coke and fizzy drinks and jam sandwiches.Just the the thing little kids will have on a picnic.Leave a can of coke for a few minutes and a wasp will go into it.The poor child takes a drink and is stung on the tongue.This is seriously dangerous as the tongue or throat will swell up and block the air passages.It is not always a hospital trip as a friend of mine I was fishing with did this, but it was a close thing.
Al

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Old Grizzly
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 06:44 PM

Winegar for Wasps

Bicarb for bees

'ospital for ornets ;O))

I used to keep a dozen hives of bees and have been stung quite literally hundreds of times. My worse ever episode was over 50 stings at once all round one ankle.
I have also had way more than my fair share of wasp stings including in the mouth up the nose and the eye and I can safely say that none of the 'remedies' have any real effect other than that of making you feel you are doing something about it.

Antihistamine tablets and cream followed by applying an ice cube is probably the best you can do. As Alan said, a sting in the mouth or in the neck area can prove very dangerous and always warrants proper medical attention.

Just a tip..... with bee stings, the sting usually comes away from the bee along with the little poison sac. This can still be pumping venom in up to half an hour later so it is best to remove the sting asap.
DONT use tweezers or try to grip it with the fingernails - this will just squeeze any remaining venom straight in. Rather, scrape it out sideways using the blade of a knife or a fingernail (nail side to the skin). This will remove the sting without delivering any more gunk.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 11:44 PM

Actually, what I have encountered in Canada is called a yellow-jacket and although they do sting, they are also predators and scavengers that chew their food before giving it to their young. My best guess is that they sting and bite, too.

Bee, the people who told me that these buggers, bite, are not ignorant about insects. They live in a community that is off-grid and has only gravel roads. They are organic farmers and know alot about insects. I believe that a 'bite from a yellow jacket' may be a figure of speech but its definitely not due to ignorance. Not all of Canada is like Toronto.

I have been to plenty of barbecues where the yellow jackets joined us to feast on salmon. There have been times that the yellow jacket has chomped on me instead of the salmon. Is it possible that they can both sting and bite?

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Bee
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 11:53 PM

Dianavan, I stand corrected:
http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7450.html

From above site:

"Aerial-nesting yellowjackets, Dolichovespula arenaria and D. maculata, build paper nests that are attached to the eaves of a building or are hanging from the limb of a tree. The entrance is normally a hole at the bottom of the nest. These aerial nesters do not become scavengers at the end of the season, but they are extremely defensive when their nests are disturbed. Defending D. arenaria sometimes bite and/or sting, simultaneously."

Perhaps it's specific to western species. I'm in Nova Scotia and have never heard of any wasp biting.

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: JennyO
Date: 18 Aug 07 - 12:19 AM

I don't know much about wasps and hornets, but I have seen some ants biting and stinging at the same time. We have these nasty red and black ants that grab you with their big pincers and then curl their tails around and sting. I've seen them doing it. I imagine the initial bite would be to hold their prey still while they are injecting the venom.

The bite is bad enough, but if they manage to sting as well, the effect is much worse because you are getting the venom. I get a bad reaction to those ants if they sting too - a huge itchy lump that lasts for weeks. If I brush them off when they have only bitten, it's just painful for a while, but there isn't the same longlasting effect. Aren't wasps and ants pretty closely related?

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Aug 07 - 02:24 AM

Limpit got stung on the tongue last year by a wasp that was enjoying her hot dog. Luckily, being her first sting, she's not built up any reaction to it, so her tongue, although it swelled a little, never became a danger to her breathing - that and I applied ice within a minute or two.

Another odd thing about wasps is, when you squish 'em, they release a pheromone into the air that basically tells all other wasps in the area - I'm in trouble, come and help! Hence, if you squish one wasp, you'll likely end up with another dozen coming at you in fairly quick time.

LTS

Subject: RE: Wasps or Hornets ?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 18 Aug 07 - 05:24 AM

I'm glad to say I don't have adverse reactions to stings from bees or wasps. It just hurts like mad for a while and that's it. My brother has bad reactions and so does my nephew.

Love Lynne