BS: Why are they leaving the UK?

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 12:45 PM

Well now that the Common Market, and other market forces have destroyed our manufacturing industries, where do we apprentice these youngsters, and to learn what. Don't forget that between the Common Market, and the fact that the cost of manufacturing went through the roof, driving work abroad to lower wage economies they were all gone or going before Maggie arrived..
Excessive wage demands and over manning due to union blackmail, caused most of that.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 01:02 PM

So you're in favour of slave-labour then Giok? You don't believe that a man who works in a hard, dangerous environment should be well-rewarded for his toil. But presumably you're happy that someone who does nothing more than talk on the telephone and move numbers around can receive bonuses in the millions, while the first guy coughs his life and lungs away in his two-up-two-down council house?

I'm not so stupid as to believe that 'we're all equal', or that we ever could be. Some inequality is the vital spur that makes people strive to climb to the top of the heap, and in that it serves a useful purpose. But she wasn't satisfied with maintaining the status-quo, she despised the working-class and, like the true high-school 6th-form queen-bee, she was a vicious bully whose appetites were only satisfied by seeing those she viewed as 'weaklings' and 'low-class' cowering in the corner, kicked and beaten into submission.

In Dave Evardson's words from his great song 'The North Wall' - "Could they not have left a little, did they have to take it all?"

Guess who and which party he was talking about.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 01:19 PM

That's some leap of logic Backwoodsman. That is the problem really both sides want to control the other, and there never has been, and there never will be, give and take. Union bullying is just as bad as employer exploitation, but neither side can see it.
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Stu
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 01:20 PM

"Not the politics of envy, eh Stigweard?"

Good to see your sense of humour and ability to recognise sarcasm hasn't deserted you yet Mr. T - (unlike you deserting the UK of course . . .)

I'm not envious of you Teribus because I don't have a clue where you live - outside the UK could be, er, anywhere. My Mum was an expat for five years, living in rural France. It was a wonderful place, and I enjoyed visiting her but realised living abroad was probably not for me (although I would like to try the north west coast of the USA for a year or two.) I learnt a lot about the French, and came back with a totally different viewpoint. I developed a respect for their desire for good food and drink, their love of their language (which they debate endlessly) and of course the fact they are a Republic is of course deserving of our admiration.

What I did realise is what a load of miserable misanthropes live here, the fact we've lost our sense of community in our towns and cities (although that's not a soley British problem) and how we readily accept second-rate food and drink and eat complete shite alot of the time. My wife and I re-appraised our own food buying after returning and started buying more local produce from small retailers - fresh bread and local meat from a traditional butcher. Better quality food and cheaper too much of the time.

"By the bye I don't recall anyone complaining about the country being overrun by Poles in 194os" Showing your age a bit there old boy . . . I'm totally in favour of migrant workers being allowed in the country under new the EU rules. I worry for their employment rights (and human rights - some gangmasters are ruthless criminals) and the fact they are exploited mercilessly by the same capitialist system that has expolited it's own citizens for so many years - the fact migrant workers do the jobs everyone else doesn't want to do makes them easy targets for unscrupulous and unethcial employers.

"You all wanted the United States of Europe well you've got it, live with it."
Too right -and I'll be voting for it come the referendum.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 02:20 PM

your cheap 'Poles' jibe.

I can't see why there was anything wrong with what Teribus said there. (And I've disagreed with him often enough, and I am sure I will continue to do so.) It just seemed his way of pointing out that talk about Poles overunning this country is tosh.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 02:37 PM

"Don't forget that between the Common Market, and the fact that the cost of manufacturing went through the roof, driving work abroad to lower wage economies they were all gone or going before Maggie arrived." - Giok

Never a truer word spoken.

As for the - "cheap 'Poles' jibe" - Backwoodsman

"I can't see why there was anything wrong with what Teribus said there. (And I've disagreed with him often enough, and I am sure I will continue to do so.) It just seemed his way of pointing out that talk about Poles overunning this country is tosh." - MGOH

Thanks for that Kevin, I'm glad somebody got the point.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 03:45 PM

Yep, I'll give way on that one Teribus and Kevin. Apologies.
BTW Teribus, thanks for your PM, I've sent one back.
S:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 08:51 PM

"If you're looking for a previous period to blame for things going wrong on the streets, a better candidate than 60s "progressivism", I suggest would be the Thatcherite ethos of laissez faire and evil take the hindmost which devastated whole communities and threw millions of people out of work."

Sorry McG, but Thatcher came to power just about the time that those undisciplined, ill educated kids were producing the next generation of even less disciplined offspring.

I know you hate Maggie, but even you can't pretend that she could time travel back to the early sixties, to screw up the teenagers.

As for leaving the country, I can't even afford to do THAT for a week on a cheap package deal. I am going to have to keep working into my late seventies, courtesy of one Gordon Brown.

It weren't Maggie Thatcher that buggered my pension, it was that gormless dollop of pickled misery that just took over as PM.

God Help England, and if we asked them VERY nicely, d'ye think the Scots would take him back.

Frankly if we got rid of him, and kept all the Eastern migrants, I'd say we got the best of the bargain.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 04:53 AM

Thanks Don, but you can keep him! Anyway why him and not TB, who was also a Scot, you never offered us him back. Not that we'd have taken him either mind you!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 08:53 AM

"you paid into a pension then it was funded in part by the tax payer"

That's a bit of a twist of logic! The govt agreeing not to tax me on any of my salary put aside as a pension (to avoid my future burden on the state) is taking money off the taxpayer!

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 09:02 AM

The money the government takes in the form of PAYE or Graduated Pensions, or whatever they're calling it these days isn't 'put aside', it's spent straight away for whatever purpose they deem fit, and your government pension when it comes will be paid from current incomes.
If you supplement your government pension with a pension of your own, and your income from them exceeds your personal tax free allowance, make no mistake you will pay tax mate.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 09:47 AM

The government gives me tax relief on my pension contributions but to say that that money (the tax relief) is coming from the "tax-payer" is stretching things a bit.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 09:58 AM

Hey Paul, if they're giving it to you with one hand, they will be taking it away with the other. That's how those sneaky gubmints work.
It sleight of hand, an old conman trick, think 3 shells, and disappearing objects.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 09 Sep 07 - 10:58 AM

"Thanks Don, but you can keep him! Anyway why him and not TB, who was also a Scot, you never offered us him back. Not that we'd have taken him either mind you!"


A revisit to my posting history will reveal that I have already made my feelings about Tony B Liar very clear.

The Scots have never done me that much harm that I would wish to inflict such cruel and inhuman punishment, which is why I suggested that we make him our ambassador to Mars, if NASA will lend us a shuttle to send him there.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 06:44 AM

Point of fact: Shuttles cannot go to Mars, or even beyond NEO.


"to Mars, if NASA will lend us a shuttle to send him there."

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 09:53 AM

Another dream ruined by an injection of unwanted reality.
G

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Emma B
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 05:26 AM

"TB ....... caused the most widespread public concern in the 19th and early 20th centuries as an endemic disease of the urban poor!" Wikipedia

ooops! sorry I think on this occasion it means Tony Blair

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 08:31 PM

An even more dangerous bug, Emma.

Don T.

P.S. I knew that about the Shuttle. Still once he's in NEO, we don't have to bring him back, do we?

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 08:40 PM

"conquering the rest of the wretched island, including all of Scotland as well as neighboring Ireland"--Little Hawk

"Typical imperialist Yank answer to everything--invade and occupy"--Stigweard

Sorry. We can't claim him, much as we'd like to. That typically imperialist Yank is a Canadian who likes to play war games.